Do people actually think Survivor has no big issues?
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Yeah, but the OP is talking about their observations of how killer players behave on here, so that's what I'm addressing. It is true that survivors also get banned and create new accounts.
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They're not the majority, just loud with a fast respawn rate.
That made me laugh...
Best description I have seen in a while.
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Yeah, I basically had someone say survivors can't complain about [thing that effects survivors] because some survivor players do [thing that effects killers that is arguably related]
When I asked if I was allowed to complain if I didn't do [that thing that affects killers] they said "it doesn't matter because most survivors do [the thing]".
I'm aware there are people who do the same thing from the survivor perspective (I've seen dbd tiktok comments) and this isn't a one-sided issue, but the fact that it's happening at all and that it seems to be particularly slanted towards one side, on the forums that are meant to be a prime avenue of feedback for the developers, is disheartening to say the least.
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First off, regarding bias on the board, things always seem biased one way when one's perspective is from the opposite end of the bias spectrum. Not to sound gatekeeper-y, but unless you play at something at least approximating a 50/50 split, your opinion on game balance is almost irrelevant.
As for the topic, of course there's a issues with survivor, especially solo queue. I play exclusively solo when playing survivor, and I play a lot of survivor. And some days it feels really bad, man. Losses are a lot less fun when you're on your own, and not at least deriving some fun from goofing with friends.
But more than anything, DBD is an engine of imbalance, one that will always "correct" to imbalance when balancing is attempted (much like when one thing is fixed another will break due to the spaghetti code this game is built on). There's an ebb and flow, and the only sure thing is that everyone will have a legit grievance about game balance at any time.
For survivor, things will never be balanced so long as some people play with friends and others play solo. We're eight years into this, and if it could have been done, it would have been done. That said, I feel better about the survivor experience now than I did a year ago.
But anyone waiting for it to be fairly balanced is going to be waiting forever.
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Maybe because it's not really a problem. It's not really that common. (Except from the point of view of people who do not understand what tunneling actually is.)
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Here's the truth about the forums.
People who favor survivor tend to notice things they don't agree with and tend to think the forums sway harder towards killer than it actually does.
People who favor killer tend to notice things they don't agree with and tend to think the forums sway harder towards survivor than it actually does.
If you set aside your bias towards a side of the game, you will notice that the forum see constant complaints from both sides.
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Why not both? Your fix is for first stage, my fix is second stage give up.
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Hard slugging or even slugging in general is not an issue at all. Firstly as you put it yourself, slugging is very rare. Secondly you don't need builds or items to counter slugging, the counters are in the base game. It's a high risk/high reward play. Chain slugging typically does not work unless your team is playing very, very badly. If y'all are playing even remotely average this scenario isn't working. 4 man slug bleed outs also isn't even worth mentioning as this first has to have everything line up from what I said above and second is extremely rare. Like I don't think I've seen it once in the last 300 matches I've played in solo queue. Most the "bleed out" scenarios people show aren't actual bleed outs, it's a partial slug for pressure or looking for the last guy to prevent hatch. If someone is seeing bleed outs regularly they are either vastly exaggerating "bleed out" or they are playing very toxic to instigate things.
The real reason people complain about slugging is because they want to be able to remove themselves from matches like they can on hooks. That's a feature we want to reduce, not encourage even further.
Post edited by Blueberry on2 -
There are a lot of issues, but it's difficult to address them when even the Devs themselves often don't seem to want to listen or do anything about it.
Talk about SoloQ? The devs think it's doing great! The stats don't differ that much to them and when they can look at stats, why should they care about the gamers' experience??? When the numbers tell them that it's not "too bad" it's not as if the players have paid for this unbalanced game of spaghetti codes. No, instead they call soloQ selfish and lone wolves, and THAT"S why on average soloq is doing worse, not because they lack information.
Why add emotes? WHy allow your players to see one another's perks in the lobby? Why incentivize not to give up instantly? Just add more pallets and more bots! <3
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Here's an experiment you can try:
- Pick 10 threads with an initial post with a killer complaining about survivors and another 10 the other way around
- For each thread, count how many players from the opposite side come out to tell the OP just how wrong they are (data 100% of the time leans towards killer players telling survivors they're wrong)
- Notice how far from reality your comment about the forums is
If you set aside your bias towards a side of the game, you will notice that the forums see constant complains from killer players.
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Oh, I acknowledge that playing as a solo survivor definitely has issues. I just believe that an absolute bare minimum of 50% if those issues are caused by bad gameplay decision by the solo survivor in question
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For sure. I'd just like to be able to discuss issues without the usual suspects derailing and minimising. I don't play much killer so I tend to avoid killer-centric topics and stay in my lane, but I can't say the same courtesy gets extended alot of the time. I don't mind killer mains who also play survivor contributing to survivor discussions btw, or vice versa, as it helps to gain perspective. But I'm talking about the unhelpful comments that contribute nothing constructive (and the whataboutisms as you said). Threads about survivor issues just go downhill so fast that I end up just opting out.
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I think it is a phenomenon that survivors are not good debaters, and probably not thinking it is worth the effort to fight to improve the game. Killers do gang up on survivors to silence and intimidate (ie. you are low MMR). Since the devs continue to ruin the game for survivors and buff killers, I am not surprised survivors are simply disengaged.
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Yeah of course survivor do have issues. I just personally believe that survivor leaning players tend to be a lot worse on average at actually having a constructive conversation about those problems. A lot higher frequency of entitled, unsympathetic, and/or double standard views in my personal experience/opinion. Not to mention the tribalism/Us vs Them and whataboutisms. Many conversation kinda just derail or devolve and it makes it difficult to make meaningful headway in that type of environment.
As for the rest, I don't think he forums overall are overwhelmingly sided towards one side or the other. It kinda just depends on the day and what's going on in the game at the time.
However certain members/people can be, so I can agree to the "pretty much know what they're going to post" aspect to a certain degree. I do have a "don't even bother" list as I'm sure many who have been around for a bit do. So it can also depend on whose on at the same time you are.
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
There is definitely a survivor issue, it's called a skill issue. Vast majority of survivors loop and that's the problem. Instead of working on gens, doing totems they spend whole game trying to loop the killer and wonder why they can't win a game. Pretty much every game survivors loop me they end up dead one way or another. But the ones that use tactics, come prepared with perks to be able to lose line of sight end up beating me. It's this strange view that "looping is the point to the game" and "there isn't anything else a survivor can do" no that's bs, there are plenty of things people can do but they refuse to budge from the looping mindset and end up losing because of it. The in game advice even says to lose line of sight. No where in the game does it say "advice for survivors, goad a killer into chasing you around a pallet"
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I mean besides solo queue being bad and tunneling being an issue still I don’t really see what else is wrong with survivor right now?
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I was only speaking about the suicide-on-hook phase.
That being said, attempting the 4% on the first phase will reduce the wait by 2 minutes so maybe both phases should be disabled.
Honestly I'm not too sure about what solution is best. I only know replacing suicide by bots isn't it. (And I perfectly accept mine isn't either.)
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Replacement with bots is just a hot fix when survivor miss two skill checks in second phase.
I don't think there is better solution.
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I understand what you say, but basically it's a "free" attempt at 4% to be replaced by another player (a bot is still a player)
So basically the killer is penalized for the 4% attempt, fail or win.
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It has never happened in the history of DBD. But the opposite has already happenend many times during the dead hard and circle of healing meta.
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What? I don't talk about 4% escapes in first stage.
And if player gives up on first hook, they would be useless in game anyway. So not really any value in keeping them there. You just risk they will actively try to sabotage their teammates.
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And it's simply because kill rates by itself hasn't really been raised or lowered anyway
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The first stage part was about your reply. Forget about the first stage.
That's reportable and bannable.
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That's reportable and bannable.
Like it ever stopped players in any game from doing it.
Most players are lazy and won't create ticket for it anyway.
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Except we’ve never actually seen proof of this “mass exodus”:besides anecdotal videos and posts saying it happened. I am not saying people haven’t left because of the perks either, but I think people vastly overestimate that number.
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It's not that the post is about mass exodus or anything happened, but rather we had a time survivor que literally takes like a dozen minutes and more
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Sure, I had my fair share of 10 minute waits for survivor games in the evening, but that’s not reeeeallly the full picture either. SBMM changed queue times vastly because it disregards mmr for queue times, and allowed for more wiggle room than RBMM generally did, and once SBMM came out I personally found queues to be much much quicker on both sides, and this was still in DH era (COH came out what, 3 ish months after SBMM?). We have never had official stats on killer:survivor ratios either pre-mmr or post-mmr, that I know of, so it’s really just hard to say. I do think people are playing killer more, but I think it’s just because people are playing the game more now in general than those days.
But also, the person I was replying to said killers left en masse. So I was responding directly to that.
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I see this pop up every now and then, but I was playing during the time this apparently happened and never experienced these queue times myself. I guess it was a regional thing?
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I was talking about queue times. People remember the +15min survivor queue time.
But despite all of that, you know that ? The game was somehow more fun. DH was broken but Ruin was good, PGTW was good, NOED was good, less aura reading for killers so you had to rely on game knowledge or BBQ (that was also played for bonus points !) promoting splitting hooks so less tunneling.
There was no base kit BT and hook grabs were allowed punishing survivors for stupid plays but at the same time it made real BT good and promoted team play.
Overall there was more mistakes to be made for all sides, but also more good plays. Now the game is autopilot.I won’t even start talking about SBMM, just read documentation about it, why it is used for player retention and how it removes all the fun.
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It is, even in today survivor ques at my region takes like 2 to 3 minutes, sometime they even have 100% bonuses and still takes same minutes
I suppose MMR also has something related to it
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Dowsey had a 45 minute queue for Killer. While I'm not saying that Killers weren't leaving MMR definitely had something to do with the queue times.
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Eh if the fact someone can disagree with you is keeping you from posting then maybe you shouldn't be trying to discuss it. Everyone has a completely different experience in dbd whether it be side played, split of playtime, killer played, perks used, mmr, skill level, ect. No matter what you say someone is going to disagree with it for reasons they might see as valid and or try and balance out a change or outright disagree with it to keep a ideal version of the game they want.
I mean I do the same thing but a lot of my ideas are both sided, I will advocate for survivor perks that should be nerfed while they sit happily in my build. I will advocate for balanced buffs to both sides if someone posts something that seems like it would turn the game on its head in a vacuum like basekit X Y Z without taking the rest of the game into account because their stance is usually "just do it and let the devs figure it out after" because my ideal version of the game is if you make a change you balance it whether it be by buffing something weak into something thats on par with its peers or nerf something that has too large of a game impact before you release it.
But most importantly you don't need to interact with everyone. If someone disagrees with you in a way you don't like just ignore them. There will always be someone in a post who goes I hate this, it doesn't matter what you post there will always be that guy who has some shill argument with no explanation behind it and moves on to the next post, find the people worth interacting with and interact with them.
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That's mmr issue it should be balanced that at 60% kill rate you gain no mmr and 40% escape you gain no mmr on survivor. So for example 2K should be loss for killer in mmr. Now I do think kill rates could be lower because it's not just killers getting better in 1vs1 but maps nerfed significantly.
So I would like to see 55-60% kill rate and weaker maps buffed bit. SoloQ should get more information to bring them closer to swf. Basekit kindred and anticamp progress should be shown to other survivors.
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