I'm confused by weave attunement opinions
I am undoubtedly biased towards the killer side I'm not going to claim to play survivor consistently in any way but I am prone to read discussions silently.
The main cause of my confusion is that you don't want to just see pop pain res Grim embrace every game but when the devs introduce a new exciting perk that has counterplay and requires a synergy perk is the most complained about thing. I understand near constant aura reading can be annoying and on some maps ot may be problematic but I've never felt it carry games. If you don't want to see the same 4 perks but when the devs introduce a strong info perk like this or ultimate weapon it is complained about.
Disclaimers:
1.)this is a genuine question post not me saying you are objectively wrong for thinking weave attunement is problematic I just want to try and understand the other point of view.
2.) I am not always the best at judging balance I liked old mft because it didn't plummet my dopamine when I saw it like dead hard and sprint burst do.
3.) This isn't an us vs them discussion let's keep it that way this is for survivors who can calmly voice their issues with the perk so I can try and understand why it is currently so hated
4.) Yes I understand the need for a nerf on 2 story maps and it's synergy with certain killers.
Comments
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As someone who plays survivor more than killer, but enjoys both, WA+Franklin's being such a hot topic kind of cracks me up. I was ready to jump on the hate wagon at first. The hype of it made it look ridiculously OP and uncounterable. Then I played against it a few times. Real talk, it's a nuisance at worst. It can be kind of annoying to have to jump off a gen, pick up my toolbox, and walk it to the map edges. It wastes a little time, sure. Getting hit with franklins is decidedly more annoying because I probably will lose my item charges and possibly a BNP if I'm lucky enough to have one. If I get hooked, hopefully a teammate picks up my box and carries it to the map edges. They waste a little time. Not a huge deal.
The real villains in this perk combo are other survivors who refuse to pick up and move items when they see them. Like, c'mon guys. It's not that big a deal. And if you know WA is in effect, STOP OPENING CHESTS FOR NEW OBJECTS.
All in all, a lot of hate hype for no reason.
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it's not fun to play against. the only real counterplay against it is to not bring items. dropping your items in the corner is not counterplay but in many cases it's literally all you can do to try and limit its strength. it's also paired with franklins which survivors hate playing against. according to nightlite statistics it's the perk with the highest kill rate in the game right now. it's overpowered. when i want to just annoy survivors i play as skull merchant with weave attunement. in fact, i'd argue that weave attunement is the skull merchant of perks. many survivors just give up the moment they realize you're using weave attunement, same thing with skull merchant.
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The amount of opened chests cracks me up. I'll often times look around and see 6 items on the ground.
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I just drop my item at the start of the match and if the killer has it I'll put my item in the corner and use it later at the right moment, if I see other items on the ground I just put them in a corner as well.
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The only map I find it an issue on is Hawkins since you can’t use the “hide your item in the corner” counterplay since you need to go into the corners often on that map because of gen and pallet spawns.
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It is ridiculous because Survivors' items are not only rendered useless but are then turned on them as weapons.
Imagine a Survivor perk synergy that would remove your add-ons and benefit the Survivors.
It was so common during the event that now I just don't bring items. Then you start to wonder why even spend bloodpoints? Why even play if you're not going to use the bloodpoints?
It sends you down a dark rabbit hole and is honestly unhealthy for the game. Especially at a time of unprecedented DCs and Survivors giving up.
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This perk combo gets hate because survivors either are
1. Too lazy.
2. Memory issues.
3. Don't care but still complain anyway.
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Most survivors are too lazy. Let them wallow in hatred. I have no problems dealing with this perk combo.
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Well, it alone is one thing. Annyoing and a two for one deal for a killer; aura reading + slow down (yes, bringing items to the edge of the map does cost time plus you don't have the item; i.e. a gen is repaired slower, you can't reset yourself or save someone from being hooked, all of which translate to valuable time for surv being lost. - The edge of the map is also usually a dead zone, so a killer who catches you drop it there can easily intercept you and get a free hit).
Together with Franklin's, which on its own is already obnoxious, turns both the annoyance and the obnoxiousness up to eleven.
Actually, Weave Attunement too is rather obnoxious, now that I think about it. - Survivors are supposed to bring items, similar to how killers are supposed to bring add-ons, it's an essential part of the survivor kit. Now there's a perk that single handedly turns that essential part on its head and makes what is supposed to work for you work against you.
Imagine survivors had a perk that disables your add-ons as long as that surv is within 8m of a gen/you/a pallet/a totem/whatever, doesn't really matter.
It's the principle of "your're bringing something you're supposed to bring and then you doing what you're supposed to do is used against you."
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Survivors have distortion it disable half of killer addons
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Did my message get removed or dud I mess up while posting? I don't wanna repost if I did something wrong ^_- even though I think that there was nothing wrong with my text.
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Funny enough Weave Attunement (and a number of other perks/add-ons) eats through stacks making it essentially worthless in precisely the cases where it's needed most. - I give you the disabling part though, kinda forgot the second half of the sentence I had in mind up there; disabling is the first part, the other is then actively using it against you. So it's probably more like disables the add-ons and gives the survivors some kind of edge over you; be that whenever your perks are disables they see your aura, gain a heal/repair speed bonus, x% haste - whatever.
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Drop item in an empty corner now the perks do almost nothing. Why/how is that "not counterplay"?
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And you don't even need to drop the item to the corner while doing gens, you can pick up and keep doing gen like nothing as picking up the item already disables WA
Of course it's a little more risky though
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Welcome to the forums, it might sometimes get heated here, but it's mostly civil.
I totally feel you, I am a killer main myself, but still play lots of survivor, evident by the fact that I managed to finish every last killer and survivor tome challenge (actually, I am slightly lying, as I am at my very last challenge and taking two protection hits away from finishing them all, but you get my drift :P)
I still think, for example, that Ultimate Weapon could have been nerfed a bit less hard, it's main problem was that the effect stayed with the killer and thus allowed checking potentially the entire map with one activation and the extremely short cooldown, but due to the scream it just gave a momentary screenshot for the killer of the survivors position, not even an indication in what direction the survivors where running. But people hated it, because it couldn't be countered by Distortion, just by the otherwise useless Calm Spirit.
And now it's the same with Weave Attunement: it basically needs Franklin's to be fully effective, on its own it's very lackluster. With this it's basically like Head On that's only effective if used in conjunction with Quick and Quiet, thus picking this perk essentially locks down half your perk allotment. And for that it's effect should be strong and tangible.
What I like with Weave Attunement is that I often get passive info throughout the whole trial, like when a survivor passes through an effected room or seeing one jumping on a gen, but most time I can't act on this info, so just knowing that someone is somewhere doesn't mean I will instantly jump and interrupt them, it's still good to keep in the back of my head, though.
Regarding strong, but fun perks, I really felt for survivors and MFT. Survivors had no strong new perk for a long time, and then MFT was obviously a problematic perk and had to go and I totally understood the frustration from the survivors side, but perks that mess with all the carefully tuned in timings off all the loops is bound to be problematic.
Same for Lara Crofts new Finesse perk, that's practically sure fire to be nerfed, because the timings are already so tight when hunting around a windowed tile set, this perk will mess things up royally again. The problem is that fun perks for one side are often very rage inducing or shall I say "unfun" for the receiving one and that's always a dance on the razors edge.
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Honestly if picking up an item and placing it in a corner is too difficult of counter play we’re never going to be able to have anything that requires counter play. This is as easy as it gets. I can’t believe this is even a topic honestly.
People that think the only counter play is to not bring items I think is being extremely disingenuous and not honest. There is very clear counter play.
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When circle of healing was actually meta, the counterplay was to snuff it.
That's also base kit, and takes you out of the way of the action. Killers swore that it took minutes to go deal with and was a huge waste of time (for survivors, that's called slowdown).
I also have no control over my teammates, so I can repeatedly drop an item in the corner, or not bring one at all, and still be completely screwed because my teammate dropped something in main, and I have no way to communicate that. It's also likely too late by the time I find out it's even there, too.
Not to mention that the survivor item is the closest equivalent to the killer's power. Do you not think that, if survivors had a perk that forced the killer to avoid using their power most of the match that would somehow not be a problem?
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Oh god, this. It was so bad during the anniversary event. Weave OP, but hang on a sec and let me open this party chest. Alright, got my sweet bloodpoints, but all this aura reading everywhere is so unfair!!!!
Personally, I think this perk is busted on two-story maps because the amount of info the perk provides all but doubles while making the item much harder to find, but otherwise it's fine. It tells you when it's in play. Even if you get Franklins'd, ideally you just leave the loop and clean up later.
The issue with snuffing CoH is that it didn't accomplish anything but a stalemate when the killer's time is more valuable than individual survivors. You'd snuff the boon and the survivor would put it up again. Moving your item out of the way is a one-and-done deal. The killer can't put it back in the middle of the map.
Though I agree that not having control over your teammates is frustrating here, because finding their item litter is hard and makes you a target while you're doing it.
Items being the survivor power is a pretty poor analogy. They either have limited use or run out quite quickly, and losing your item is only really going to change how you play if you had a flashlight. And that could already be negated by Lightborn or just the killer being cautious. Contrast to if I'm playing Billy and suddenly I don't have a chainsaw anymore. It's not a great comparison. I don't understand the reliance on items, and that's solo queue talking.
I don't really have a vested interest in defending Weave Attunement. I used it precisely once for Adept Lich. But I don't think it's half the problem people are making it out to be.
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Have you ever facing againts Sadako who uses Franklin + Weave combo? Not OP but Broken
~ My only problem with Weave1 -
I want to add, Weave + Francklin is also a huge SoloQ stomper
When you are in com, you can communicate, even with less experienced survivor, to get your item on a corner, and call a day, but solo, when the other lost they item, they practically never get them back and getting to a corner, some map have a strange shape where the corner is far far away or get a lot of information for the killer anyway (like, the game or the new one with Unknow)
And you add some strange bug where the killer can get the aura area even without any item dropped or some chest giving them this kind of info… I can really understand the problem of this perk, people tend to forget but, the aura reading is also a very good kind of perk for pressure and making gen progression less effective4 -
A perk like Weave probably shouldn't have been released alongside an anniversary event where value is tremendous.
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Reveal the aura of items revealing you, otherwise it's fine.
I dont want to go against or bring 4 slowdowns
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Is there any strength about it, getting hit with her is just as difficult and it's not like we have tvs in the corner
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Not in SoloQ. We have no control over what our teammates bring nor what they do with the item.
If my 3 teammates all get hit in the middle of the map in the beginning of the game because the Killer had Lethal Presuer, it's game over.
There's no realistic way to know where the items were dropped, look for them, then run them to the edge of the map.
The edges of the map are also where most people hide to heal so then the Killer gets 'A Nurse's Calling' for free.
Before I stopped bringing items, I couldn't even find my own dropped item because there's usually a chase and the odds you're going to remember exactly where you got hit are slim.
Even if you do, you go straight back into danger to go looking for it as your aura is revealed while you're within a certain range of it.
Assuming you can grab it and take it to an edge of the map, there's no way to communicate that to teammates that may go to that corner for a heal. They won't know until the debuff icon shows and it's too late. They are injured and now their aura is shown.
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Best killer meta in years.
When survivors start running OoO this perk combo will be a non issue at worst.
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Yes you’re not in control over teammates, that’s how the game works. If you want the role that only relies on yourself that’s killer. It’s a team game as survivor, your outcome is affected by how your team plays and that’s out of your control.
Saying the game is over if the items get dropped in the middle early is extremely hyperbolic. That’s irrelevant.
If you’re hiding in the corner to heal that is already a misplay, you shouldn’t be doing that. That is a low mmr play. Good survivors don’t do that. Nurses is also a very uncommon perk for that matter anyway.
I’ve literally never once dropped my item from franklins and not remember where I got hit. This is a skill issue. Yes, if you play bad, you get bad results. That’s how games work.
That’s why you use good judgement of when to go pick it up. You make it sound like the killer is just sitting there staring at it and waiting for you step in to pounce. Unrealistic point.
Again your teammates should not be going to the corners to heal. This is a misplay. Misplays get punished.
All these points you’ve made are basically just illustrating skill issues as these are survivors making bad plays. Good survivors have none of these issues. Playing bad makes you lose games, this isn’t unique to the Weave combo.
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survivor can't pick up items on the ground if they're holding a tape.
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Survivors are irrational when it comes to Franklins so anything that synergizes with Franklins is unfun by sheer virtue of Franklins existing in the match
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The problem with that comparison is with CoH the "counterplay" didn't really accomplish anything as they could just reboon and often actually put you in a lose-lose of "lose gens or let them heal for free" and either way you lost the game. So it was worthless counterplay at best and a lose-lose at worst. Especially because there's 4 survivors and 1 killer so the time efficiency was massively skewed in the survivors favor. Put your item in a corner of your choosing (not across the map like boons would be) and 1-2 perks of the killer are worthless for the rest of the match is not the same. The killer cannot move your item back into a position where it's relevant again.
"I can't control my teammates" is a poor excuse. You're basically arguing the perk should be changed because many survivors are bad and lazy. If the you don't use the counterplay you suffer the consequences, that's how games work. If you don't want to worry about teammates why are you queing up for a team based game without a SWF? That's how team based games work. Either you que with friends or you accept the risk of "the randoms". Playing killer is also an option.
Items = killer power is a poor analogy as @Laluzi already pointed out.
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I agree as survivor you use lot of bp to get items and then them to be turned weapons agains't you is just unhealthy effect.
I used this combo on killer some games and the information you get is ridicious it single handely won me games. Only real counterplay is to not bring items...
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Oh, that's strong
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I haven't experienced this but holy crap that's pretty broken, honestly.
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Id argue that killer power has no comparable survivor aspect because that's inherently the asymmetry of the game. The killer innately has a leg up or "power role" as some might say. Our items/addons might be roughly equivalent to their add ons, but we have nothing that's equal to their power, except that we outnumber them.
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I could say the same about many killer perks, and if people would hear me out I'm sure they'd agree.
Like Ultimate Weapon, right. It kind of power crept Darkness Revealed, it had a short cooldown, and it made people scream which countered aura hiding. I don't think any one of those things makes a killer perk OP, but even together, what good is it really? Like all killer info perks, I rate them very low because while it's important to have maybe 1, seeing a survivor does not at all mean that you get them. I feel that the people complaining about the perk could not handle being found by the killer, because they couldn't hold their own in chase, similar to why they complain of Doctor and his screams. I never really used the perk, because I've always had the opinion that seeing auras for a couple seconds beats seeing a scream for 1 second any day of the week, hence why I still used Darkness Revealed instead. "We're screaming all match!" Yes, but did that stop you from doing gens, unhooking, healing, anything? The killer probably could have found you on their own with a little intuition. And it has synergy with Dead Man's Switch, but so does Hex: Face The Darkness, which also activates every 30 sec, minus the time waste of having to walk to a locker and open it (another reason I could never get down with the perk). And to give the killer DMS value constantly means you were getting hooked constantly, which means you'd have lost the match anyway.
It's these little details that I think limits many people's understanding on balance, especially perk buffs and nerfs. Like you and I said, this Weave Attunement perk combo is aura reading and item depletion, 2 slight nuisances which are nice for the killer, but aren't anything to write home about.
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He gets it.
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I agree for the most part with what you're saying. There really aren't too many perks that I'm ever just flat out pissed about, other than NOED, but even then it's an eyeroll and me muttering "gross" under my breath in the endgame.
I have calm spirit equipped nearly 100% of the time now, just because the screams are annoying to me and bother my ears. Kind of like how I'll equip lightborn if there's a single flashlight in the lobby because the effect actually hurts my eyes. But the thing is, those counters exist to be used, and as a player, we can use them literally anytime we want. Like almost every aspect of the game, there's a decent counter for the annoyances that are often labeled OP. And similar to what you're saying, if people feel like perks/abilities are OP, or counters to perks or abilities are unfair, it's probably because they're using certain aspects of the game as a crutch and can't play effectively without them. (You can pry my Bond from my cold, dead hands!)0 -
Weave attunement is actually kind of hilarious if you're running OoO. You can just drop your item next to a generator to have 100% aura reading on the killer while getting the 6% action bonus or drop it at a jungle gym so there's no mindgaming between you or the killer. It turns into a personal radar system.
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The thing is, it's actually the only good way to counter weave (and not losing time going to a corner where they are nothing, no loop, no gen, or nothing who can be against survivor)
But again, survivor need a perk for countering tunneling, need one perk for countering some strong perk, countering slugging, countering proxy camping, countering old three genning
And here we go again, some stale meta where every survivor run the same exact build0
