Slugging/bleeding out
I just played a match against a wraith, he started to tunnel at 5 gens, slugged me and another survivor we were the last two alive at 4 gens, and just left us on the ground the whole time until just barely before we were about to bleed out and then proceeded to hook us after wasting all that time after taking the game hostage by leaving us on the ground just walking all over us banging his bell. Since the anti face camp mechanic was made can there be a anti slugging mechanic? This is unacceptable that the killer can just bleed us out and there’s NOTHING a survivor can do about it.
Comments
-
In that case it is not holding the game hostage, because your timer is ticking down.
It might be annoying, but it is only for a short time so I guess just tab out and do something else in the mean time.
6 -
Hot take, but I WISH that whenever every survivor is in the ground and cannot be picked up by any form (No Unbrekable/Exponential/No Mither/Soul Guard/Plot Twist/etc) the game just ended - like the PTB finisher Mori. Would be much more convenient that the game just ended than being held by some killers until the complete bleedout.
I don't know how an anti-slug mechanic would be made without affecting normal gameplay - sometimes you are FORCED to slug, even if you want to hook everyone after you are done.
2 -
The killer was not holding your game hostage
7 -
This is not holding the game hostage. As bad as it is, they are still progressing.
However, it is definitely griefing which is a reportable offense too. There doesn't need to be a mechanic dedicated to it. They just need to actually do something about the reports.
1 -
It's not reportable.
2 -
Griefing: Deliberately and intentionally irritating, harassing, annoying or trolling other players.
Bleeding survivors out for no reason other than wasting their time qualifies as griefing. Griefing is a reportable offense. It's just that BHVR don't enforce it, which is an entirely different problem.
3 -
Yeah, no. Bleeding out is progressing the game state just like being hooked is. There's a timer and it is going down. You will die at some point. Killing survivors is not griefing. Sorry.
Moreover if the wraith is that hungry for a 4k there's reasons to not hook one of the last two survivors. They can 4%. Deliverance can be in play. There could simply be no nearby hooks.
6 -
It doesn't matter if the bleedout timer ends the match eventually. If you read the OP's post, they said the Wraith was walking over them, just ringing the bell. Whatever the reason for slugging, there is zero reason for that kind of behavior.
2 -
That's a little bit of a logical flaw… You cannot say it counts as griefing, and griefing is reportable, but it does not get enforced and is therefore not reportable… You can argue that it should be reportable, but slugging/bleeding out is not reportable.
3 -
That's just bm, but falls under the same category as t-bagging, which is also not reportable…
5 -
Unbreakable is a Unique Perk IconHelp perks
belonging to Bill Overbeck SurvivorBill
.
Prestige Bill Overbeck to Prestige 1, 2, 3 respectively to unlock Tier I, Tier II, Tier III of Unbreakable for all other Characters.
Icon
IconPerks unbreakable
Cost
2,500
IconHelp bloodpoints
3,250
IconHelp bloodpoints
4,000
IconHelp bloodpoints
Description
Past battles have taught you a thing or two about survival.
Once per Trial, you can completely recover from the Dying State IconHelp dying .Your Recovery speed is increased by 25/30/35 %.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
And using the exploit with toolboxes and Potential Energy was also progressing the game. Still it was an exploit. See how 2 things can be true at once? This is why everything has to be looked at on a case by case basis. When you have all 4 survivors on the ground and you make sure they all bleed out, instead of simply killing them, then that's still griefing. If someone bleeds out because your entire strategy was slugging and they just so happened to die before the others were down as well, then that's a different case and as disgusting as it is, it's not griefing.
I don't see the flawed logic on my part.
It's similar to how they handle exploits. It is a reportable offense, they just don't do anything about it. The game clearly states that you can report people for abusing exploits and griefing though.
0 -
If something is reportable but nothing happens no matter what then it is not reportable... Otherwise anything is reportable... I can report people for being Spanish and I know nothing will happen, the same with reporting for t bagging or what not. Something being reportable means it has to have the option to succeed, otherwise the word would have no meaning because technically you can write whatever you want into the report. In that case why does it have any relevance whether or not something is reportable?
2 -
Then that's still on the devs and not on me because by your logic they would be lying. When you select to report a player, it lets you choose between four different categories. Griefing is one of them. Being Spanish doesn't fit in any of those categories, so it would not be a reportable offense either way.
1 -
Not necessarily because it probably does not fit griefing, as that is technically only possible for players of the same team.
Because basically it is the killers job to be annoying and chase the survivors and eventually to kill them. Bleeding them out is just one option to do so... When you play a slug heavy build for example on Twins it can happen fairly easily that people bleed out on the floor. And if it is obviously allowed under that circumstances then it is allowed as a general Behaviour, and since we cannot punish intention it is not griefing.
1 -
Because basically it is the killers job to be annoying and chase the survivors and eventually to kill them.
That is a good point. I have no counter argument to this because looking at the site I linked above I also found that they made exceptions for some of their rules in order to cover things that also fall under allowed strategies. However, bleeding survivors out is not on there. So technically you are correct that it could be considered fair game after all.
However, the lines get a bit blurry here. While it is the killer's job to "annoy" survivors in the sense that they should make progressing harder and pose a threat, it is not their job to go out of their way to be a dick, which bleeding everyone out for the sole purpose of bleeding everyone out is. It's also unsportsmanlike conduct, which is another reportable offense.
It would be nice to know whether or not they do consider this as a valid strategy or not. Personally, I think they shouldn't but I am not the one who makes the rules.
0 -
It can be bm for sure if the Ghostface tags you for 4 minutes, but it is not reportable/banable in the sense of nothing happens if you do it.
1 -
I'd love it if you could just "end yourself" if you are bleeding out for > 30 seconds and there is no other undying player within 15 meters of you.
1 -
it would be nice if there was a faster way to end the match when its prolonged intentionally or unintentionally whe the survivor has a situation that would result in them being free if picked up. (finisher mori should fix this thankfully for the killers agency about it)
But it doesn't fix the survivor issue, a lot of killers do this intentionally while bming though atm, and the people in here who are dismissing that are just ignorant.
At least when I play killer and someone bms at the exit gate I can hit them out to get them out faster, on survivor you just "have to deal with it", and if you play with a friend they have to wait for you to die also and that's just not good design at all.0 -
Sorry dude but if you straight up sit there for 4 min while the guy bms you and watch him doing so then nobody can help you, tab out and do something else or so..
1 -
I do that but some people like console cannot is what I'm saying. it's not a good solution to just say deal with it, it's looking to put something in place when said situation is present.
I'm not saying report them, but I mean a mechanic0 -
Console cannot? You can just not look at the screen :D:D You can literally do anything else but sit there and get bmed xD
I don't know if a mechanic is necessary in that situation? Maybe just a give up button I guess.
1 -
just sit there for the duration of the slug isn’t punishable? I just gotta sit there and wait while the killer is just running around the map being toxic nodding, tbagging me? No that’s not fair to say “just deal with it” isn’t the right answer to the killer slugging two survivors for the whole time it takes to bleed out just because they can and want to.
0 -
Just instantly sacrifice everyone when there is no comeback, killer got a win, so just give them well deserved "victory" and call it the end
There is not a single reason to add a ridiculous basekit unbreakable in any way, removing time waste is enough to fix the problem
4 -
So I'm a bit hazy on this. You say he started to "Tunnel" at 5 Gens, slugging you and another Survivor. How is the Killer tunneling if he was chasing two different Survivors, even going so far as to down them? You go on to say you were the only two still alive at four Gens. So that means the Killer also went and downed (and sacrificed) two other Survivors. I don't think you know what "Tunneling" means.
There are plenty of anti-slugging mechanics. Most of them of are Perks and if you feel this is a problem you can take precautions against it. Moreover, if a Killer is slugging, it means that other Survivors have a chance to pick people up off the ground. Happens every day, thousands of times a day. Slugging Killers are often their own worst enemy.
In regards to the Killer choosing to "bleed you out," that is a rather unfortunate behavior and I've seen it now and then. It is hardly a common thing. Some Killers slug you down to see if anyone is going to get up. After all, they don't know what Perks you have. Getting you all down, waiting for someone to jump up, allows the Killer to maximize points and get another chase and down in with minimal risk. Some Killers slug and then go around breaking walls and cleaning up pallets. Points are points. Some are just rude. All that said, it isn't a big deal and it isn't taking the game hostage because you will bleed out. You have made a mountain out of a molehill.
2 -
the fact that you think slugging two survivors at 4 gens until we both bleed out isn’t an issue is disgusting to me. And yes I know what tunneling is he tunneled out the first two survivors 123 out and me and the other survivor that were left we didn’t get hooked not once and he just left us on the ground at 4 gens even if we did have unbreakable he would’ve still left us on the ground. Points are points? No sir that is foul to just leave the last two survivors on the ground I even crawled right infront of hook and he just shook his head no and kept ringing his bell, that was toxic behavior and it should be punishable. What you said is typical killer main mentality and it’s not right slugging all 4 survivors to see who has unbreakable like what? It’s not a contest to see who gets up
0 -
What I think is weird is that your teammates didn't pick either of you up before going down. I suspect there is also the high probability that you and your teammates were so far outclassed by this Killer that you are confusing your poor play with there being some problem with the game itself. Remember, the first step in solving a problem is admitting that YOU have one. There isn't a lot of profit to be made blaming a failure/loss/etc. on other people or the system itself. We all are playing the same game you are. You are the person you have power over. Focus your energy on what YOU can do better next time. It is a win/win strategy.
No, you clearly don't know what tunneling means, not even close. But be that as it may, have you considered that if you are this easily triggered by misfortune and adversity that Dead by Daylight might not be a fun game for you? I would venture a guess that nearly everyone who reads our posts has been slugged (probably many times) and while we might fight it annoying at the time, let it go at the end of the match. There is no need for anymore anti-slugging mechanics. There are plenty of them already.
3 -
Gotta give Skill Based Matchmaking credit where its due.
I'll just leave it at that.
3 -
There is absolutely a problem with the game: There is no punishment for artificially lengthening a game after winning.
Yeah, the survivors in this game were outmatched, but bleeding out takes more than 4 minutes from the last person down, it is one thing if the killer let them bleed out, as that would be ending the game, but purposefully letting the timers get low before interrupting the bleedout is "intentionally using game mechanics to the detriment of the game" and "taking the game hostage".
Nowhere on the report page does it mention you can only report teammates for griefing.0 -
Punishment? Language is always a good indicator of intent or emotional intent. A little introspection never hurts. Nobody is defending making them crawl around on the ground for a few minutes. It is rude and bad manners. It is not, however, against the rules, a detriment to the game, nor any kind of offense. It is, like many types of bad manners, simply a barometer of the person you played against. For all you and I know, that mean Killer felt he was punishing evil Survivors for torturing him with a Bully Squad the previous match. That doesn't make it right, but I've seen that too. The Killer who did the same thing to me said (in the after game chat) that he was punishing us for the unfairness of the game.
I laughed it off. Was it annoying? Yes. Was it fair? No, but whoever said life was fair? It is a statistical outlier and best ignored. People like that have a way of bring on their own just rewards and neither you, I, or anyone else need be part of it. Bad manners are just that, and you just have to let it go. The game is eight going now on nine years old. This Forum had posts from people complaining about this behavior all the way back. The first time it happens to you it is infuriating but after that it is like a Blue Moon, few and far between. Think of it as a Unicorn of Bad Manners, or a Burger King Myers getting a 4k. ;) But you have to let it go, because nobody is going to punish anyone for it. There are far more important, meaningful problems out there. Hackers, people who lag spike, people indulging in the worst kinds of hate and ism, harassment of an evil nature. There are people out there who still engage in DOS attacks. Those are the things that require action, not some insecure moron getting his jollies by being a jerk.
0 -
If this was implemented it would reward slugging
0 -
It is, quite literally, against the rules.
From the rules of conduct: "for example you may not: … Interfere with the ability of others to enjoy playing a BHVR Service"
Additionally, there is an option for reporting holding a game hostage. If this does not qualify, what does?
Yes, there are bigger, more impactful problems…
But, while hacking and lag spikes are difficult problems nearly impossible to truly fix, this is quite easy - let people leave, suicide or otherwise end the match when everyone is downed.0 -
No, I'm afraid not. That rather liberal way of reading that statement would mean that someone can say I'm not enjoying playing the game because Killers are hooking me. :) So no, you don't get to interpret it that way. But you don't have to trust me, you can do a search here or simply write the DEV. Report someone for doing it and see what happens.
1 -
My question still stands, what qualifies as "holding a game hostage" if "leaving all other players in a state unable to do anything to impact the game for 4 minutes, when you are fully capable of winning the game at any time" does not?
Holding the game hostage is a reportable offence, that is not interpretation. It is listed as an example of griefing here: https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us/articles/4408586278676-How-to-report-a-player0 -
You are misinterpreting what "holding the game hostage" is.
In this thread I'm about to link to, the original poster tried to call slugging taking the game hostage. A dev came in and said that delaying the game for a few minutes is not holding it hostage (for example, survivors can only struggle on the hook for 2 minutes; by the same token, a survivor can only be slugged for 4 minutes before they bleed out and die).
Holding the game hostage means that one side is preventing the other side from doing their objective while at the same time not advancing their own objective. The person/people who are being prevented from doing their objective have no choice but to disconnect (or wait for the match to time out at one hour) to leave the match. That's holding the game hostage.
Edit: I should point out, in that same FAQ you linked to, one of the other links in the sidebar is "Invalid report reasons." Simply looking at that would show you that "Slugging" is an invalid reason to report a player.
https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us/articles/4408586353940-Invalid-report-reasons
1 -
as a killer seeing it as it is. Slugging is fair game. Same as tunneling tbh. Is it annoying yes. But not more then being harrased by 4 survivors constantly blinding you or looping you around :) you can do several actions to avoid it tho but you gotta sacrifice a perk or 2 from your precious setup. And here is a thing. As a killer you work around the clock to down a survivor. You hook one, leave, somebody unhooks. So what do you do? You go back towards the hook in most cases. Then you prob run into the same survivor thinking they are smug hiding near the hook. Fair game tbh. Happens to me all the time as a survivor and happens all the time as a killer. The more people you down the harder the game becomes as a killer. All you need is one survivor to res everyone and your back to sqaure one. I never tunnel if it can be avoided. But sometimes you just run into that same one 3 times in a row. Either because they try to outsmart you or because they make poor decisions. If you get killed all the time and tunneled inwould change my gamestyle. Helped me alot.
Peace out and stay toxic /clown
0 -
This is a good question. These days it is VERY difficult to take the game hostage. Safeguards are place to time out the match. Once the gates have been opened a timer starts counting down (it wasn't always so). Once someone is downed they will eventually bleed out. Once the hatch is closed the same timer starts counting down. Yadda yadda yadda.
In general you only see a game taken hostage by hacks these days. Hacks are sometimes used to keep people locked in a match. The only real exception is if the Killer has killed all but one Survivor and blocks them in a corner, effectively locking them into a part of the map they can't get out of. The gates don't get powered, the Survivor won't bleed out since they aren't downed. They are stuck there until the Killer decides to let them out. The Killer isn't letting you progress, nor is the Killer doing it for any tactical reason to progress his/her objectives.
The only OTHER way of holding the game hostage requires the Killer be working with a Survivor. The Killer blocks one gate so it can't be powered up, and a Survivor blocks the other. Or I suppose two Survivors working with the Killer could block both gates from being powered while he torments you. Both of these are rare, but do happen every now and then. That's pretty much it. In short, if the game can end, the game is not being held hostage.
1 -
In some sense it would be true. But at least it would end a match. I, personally, rather just die than wait minutes until the bleedout, specially if the killer loses me on the ground or refuses to pick up.
1 -
"Holding the game hostage means that one side is preventing the other side from doing their objective while at the same time not advancing their own objective."
Hooking is explicitly stated as the killer's objective. You are not advancing your objective when you let people bleed out.
Leaving one survivor on the ground while chasing others is considered slugging, this is obviously not taking the game hostage nor a reportable offence.
Note how body blocking is on that same list, yet it's bannable when used to hold the game hostage.0 -
You're focusing on the bit that you think backs up your argument and ignoring an important part of the statement, that holding the game hostage means the one being held hostage has to disconnect or wait for the game to time out at an hour. Bleeding out has a definite end to it, you die at four minutes. I showed you the developer's statement in my post in which he said "It's only considered to be holding the game hostage when it's indefinite or for an extended period of time."
I've been held hostage in matches more than once. It's pretty rare but it really sucks when it happens, and if you don't disconnect it can go on for a very long time. Bleeding out is a slight inconvenience, both in general and especially in comparison.
0 -
If the killer gives up, you can bet money on survivors hovering him, taunting, clicking flashlights, etc., until the very last second of endgame collapse ticks down. Survs find it very funny when they're doing it, but immediately throw a tantrum when they're the ones whose time is being wasted.
1
