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Slugging is a huge problem in 2v8
Add infinite unbreakable basekit to combat this boring gameeplay.
Comments
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yeah it’s weird that people slug in this. It’s not like they have to pick em up and worry about flashlights and sabo squads. I’ve only been slugged twice now. Both by a huntress (go figure). But one time I was able to get myself up on my own and escape. Best believe I tbagged at the gate till the very last second for slugging.
this mode would also be a good testing ground to see what anti-slugging tools are best so they can move it to 1v4 where if you’re not camped or tunneled, you’re slugged1 -
If tons of survivors are getting slugged, they need to crawl away from each other and other objectives to make it very hard for the killers to pressure all of them.
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because slugging people allows killer to group survivors up. It allows killer to capitalize off altruism, something that is almost non-existent in cage system.
When hag gets added, you'll see more slugging because… hag relies on altruism to be good. trapper basement, it is all about around altruism. slugging is kinda killer ticket to capitalize off altruism.
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I see slugging in 2v8 only on forum. I always have some streams on background and I still didn't see a single massive slugging fest. Same with my games. Only when 3 survivors left and some killers decide to slug to find another survivors. Not even sure if it's possible to slug 8 people, not even talk about maps size and amount of resources.
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It's the next big survivor target.
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wouldn’t hooking them also group survivors up and allow you to capitalize off altruism? It’s the typical excuse of playing dirty but masking it as “a tactic”.
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there is no hooking. you only send survivor to cage. Being near a cage teleport survivor. survivor that begin rescue animation are invulnerable and any survivor rescued from cage gains endurance. Also the cages do not have any aura attached to them.
with slugging
→ Survivors do not teleport when killer is near them
→ Survivors that is revived from dying state to injured state does not gain endurance.
→ Killer knows where survivor is located.
→ Killers can damage survivors as they are being healed from dying state, often allowing a trade.
slugging is only way to camp/play defensive in that 2vs8 mode. I cannot say for certain for how viable the gameplay is.
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I think you are forgetting that DBD is free to try on Steam at the moment.
There are a lot of new players who dont know this and will just feed into this. This is made further worse with matchmaking being incredibly lop-sided because too many players are queuing for Killer, so Survivors are just shoved into matches without even considering their MMR, leading to absolute slaughters.
Also why SHOULD 8-man slugging be considered "fine"?
- Survivors cannot Flashlight Save from most grabs (Locker Grabs are bugged tho).
- Perks for Survivors to save themself dont exist.
- The Killer can literally instantly hook a Survivor at the press of a button.
- The issue with players and matchmaking mentioned before.
Slugging 1 or 2 Survivors is generally fine and understandable. But I really dont see the point in doing it to an entire team. Especially when Ive seen people intentionally use it to bleed out all 8 players to waste their time.
My main concern is how this will impact new players. Imagine queuing into this gamemode with your friends and your entire team is down and you have no idea what is going on. I am concerned that it could negatively impact their experience and drive new players away.
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coconutrts tried to slug just to see if it was really a problem alongside his friend under the guise of hooking all surviviors instantly. and his friend helped
It took 5 hours to get a game where they slugged every survivior. Keep in mind these players were some that played since the launch and they both used nurse and huntress and the survivors were noobs.
Trust, slugging isnt a issue.
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I main Killer and play 2v8 as Killer, I only played a few games as Survivor in 2v8 and in one of those games our entire team was slugged by a Huntress and a Nurse before being caged and there was nothing we could do. It doesn't matter if you refer to some other streamer, or how someone else including yourself try to do this and see if it is a problem. The fact that it CAN occur an DOES occur because there are no self-inherent counter-mechanics to it pre-death cage IS an issue, and let's face it, that issue should be addressed. It doesn't need to be Unbreakable with the 35% recovery speed, it can simply be that you are able to fully recover on your own. It takes time to do that, and Killers will want to cage you before that time runs out anyway. It helps the balance of dynamics for both sides.
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Yeah, it makes no sense for killers to be able to slug survivors in this mode… However the whole slugging technique isn't as common as people imply - in my hours long game time playing survivor I have yet to come across killers doing that.
The one time a killer left me on the floor was because they got greedy and decided to chase after another survivor, but I healed and once the bar had fully regained I shot straight back up? So idk how that happened
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I've been playing survivor in 2v8 non-stop since it released on Thursday. Slugging is not a huge issue. I've had 1 match I can recall where the killers were slugging everyone and they failed miserably at it and everyone escaped. Just because you have one instance of an egregious case of slugging doesn't make it a huge problem.
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I haven't seen any slugging in the games I had i feel like that's gonna massively backfire if just a handful of the survivors know what they doing
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Just because you didn't have it happen to you (you say you only experienced a failed slugging) doesn't mean it isn't an issue, and it doesn't need to be a huge issue or a big problem, it is enough that it is an issue that can happen and does happen. People usually don't see something as a problem until it happens to them, then you see that something should be done to prevent it.
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I just discovered that you have unbreakable - but only if you are third hook.
It comes with the Self Heal. You also get endurance. Got up 2 times… but did not find a hatch :-(
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It genuinely barely ever happens but base unbreakable has huge gameplay ramifications that aren't worth dealing with.
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Doesn't change the fact that it happens and should be dealt with. I personally don't suggest Unbreakable in the sense of faster recovery speed, only the self-recovery aspect itself. Please elaborate on what you mean with the huge gameplay ramifications.
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I haven't plugged anybody in 2v8 for longer than 20 seconds or so. I don't care if they give a base kit version that takes a bit longer than the normal unbreakable. It wouldn't effect me any.
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I've had it where both of the killers play specifically to slug all 8 Survivors until they bleed out.
It's definitely possible, especially with the better killers. Nurse + Billy, Nurse + Huntress, Billy + Huntress are all probably capable if you have two good killers in a premade. You're not pulling that off with a Trapper and a Wraith, though.
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Yeah, I have no doubt that it's possible with so many completely new player in this mode and seems like no MMR at all, but I don't think it's possible against players with at least some experience (not even good at the game). 8 people on giant map, it will work only if survivors completely ignore picking up teammates and give to killers auras after completing gen, then maybe.
I think k3ijus comment also says a lot, because I can't thing about a single game in 2v8 on killers, where I can slug and not throw match even against really bad survivors. I saw really good teams escape with 3-4 hooks on team with gens done in 4-5 minutes several matches in a row. So even if "problem" of slugging in this mode exist, it's only because of new players are lost.1 -
Slugging excessively can still be a major issue. There are a lot of inexperienced players in lobbies at the moment (good luck getting an 8 stack lmao).
It is 100% possible. I have seen it happen. I am not a bad player by any means. It dragged the match out for an eternity but they eventually got everybody down and then bled them out.
Slugging so hard people bleed out in this mode should not be a thing. With the whole cage mechanic, and the fact that pallet/flashlight saves are basically impossible in this mode, then there really isn't a reason to not add a self-pickup mechanic.
The whole reason basekit unbreakable was a bad idea in 1v4 was that there are instances where picking up a Survivor are not possible for a period of time. This is not the case in 2v8.
It's not really a common thing to see, but the cases where it does happen are so obnoxious that I think it warrants a change.
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I think just for the sake of fun having a 1 minute unbreakable timer should be implemented, sometimes there are several survivors in an area so having normal 32s self pick up (or if it was actually unbreakable 24s) is just too fast so for the sake of not putting a strain on killers playing normally but just dealing with a small crowd it shouldn't be too short but you don't need much past a certain amount of time.
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what you just wished for is basekit…. Are you sure it happened to you?
Also i referred to how it took 5 hours with the most sweaty killers and experienced against noob surviviors. A regular game(which the game balances on) will never have 8 slugs.
Also… No many mechanics will prevent a gamestyle, similir to how facecamping just made killers use m2 abilities.
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It only applies on your last cage state. They even acknowledged that in their post.
I'm pretty sure an infinite self-pickup would cut down on slugging, so I don't know what your point is there.
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What a gaslighting thing to say. Yes, I am sure it happened to me. Are you sure you read my post? Because if you did, you would see that I already addressed all you just said. Huntress and Nurse, whole team downed, no one caged so no one had unlocked self-recovery which only unlocks when your next cage is death.
Like I already said, you can refer to whoever you want, streamer or not, "sweaty" or not, how little you see it happening, how little you think it happens, how little it actually happens, the fact remains that slugging can happen and does happen and it should be dealt with. Similar to any game-breaking occurrence, it doesn't matter that it happens rarely, it shouldn't be there at all, that is the point.
And yes, playstyles happen within the perimeters of the games design, change the perimeters and you can change what playstyles are allowed within those perimeters. The ability to self-recover pre-cage would counter a full-team slugging.
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Straight up, as much as basekit unbreakable is nornally a horrible idea...
With the way hooks work in 2vs8, I don't really see a reason not to have it to counter excessive slugging. It literally costs the killer 1s to hook a survivor, and there is virtually no chance to save a survivor who gets downed... it doesn't change the normal gameplay loop barely at all, but does combat a more unfun playstyle.
While we're at it though, a basekit corrupt intervention would help killers out a lot more. Even just 3 gens blocked out of the 10 stops the immediate rush of gens right from tne word go, and with the speed a down occurs in 2vs8 makes it not even a big problem for the survivor team by and large.
So those are my 2 suggestions.
Basekit unbreakable, and basekit corrupt intervention.
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Interesting suggestion, more specifically, a Corrupt Intervention with the current state of being disabled upon the first Survivor downed, or with an adjustment like on the first two Survivors?
I agree with Paige who suggested the remote hook from anniversary event in place of stomping for the Killers, at the exchange for more gens to repair, cage system could remain the same, this way it would open up for altruism for Survivors with flashlight saves and pallet saves while relieving Killers of the time consuming carrying to hooks and I still think being able to fully recover pre-cage should be basekit, because it is the only self-inherent counter-mechanic to slugging pre-cage.1 -
I was thinking just for the first down, it's purpose is similar to basekit unbreakable here, doesn't really interrupt the normal gameplay, and it's purpose is to give Killers a few seconds to move in the map first before 6 survivors immediately start to crank out 2 gens, as is the norm currently.
Just walking at the start can lead to 2 or even 3 gens to be at like 1/3 progress after just 20s.
Altruism is interesting, because on one side Survivors can't bring items into the trial... so might be fine... though the meta definitely becomes go down under pallet... Killers will need to defend each other to get hooks, and the thing is... they actually can't defend vs. a healthy survivor... so thats a problem that's a little more intricate to solve.
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I agree, would be nice to have that.
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I added an edit regarding altruism, my bad... xD
Altruism is interesting, because on one side Survivors can't bring items into the trial... so might be fine in regards to flashlights... though the meta definitely becomes go down under pallet... Killers will need to defend each other to get hooks, and the thing is... they actually can't defend vs. a healthy survivor... so thats a problem that's a little more intricate to solve.
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whole reason why it is so dragged out is because it takes 4 minutes to bleed out. it is long time. so while it has benefits, it also has one large negative.
The whole reason basekit unbreakable was a bad idea in 1v4 was that there are instances where picking up a Survivor are not possible for a period of time. This is not the case in 2v8.
Or maybe because it prevented killer from making any comebacks+allowed survivors to aggressively bodyblock for dead hook people with fresh hook players? Not saying unbreakable doesn't have this problem but at least problem isn't base-kit.
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@UndeddJester
Yes, it would create more dynamics, and the Survivors would have to spend time opening chests and finding flashlights for the flashlight saves, and they would have to try to go under pallets while their teammates come for the save, which draws in more potential hooks from Killer POV. Then it is a battle of securing the hook by checking around for the saviors, injuring and downing them if you can, or at least zone them away and you might have to back each other up for it. I personally think it would be very interesting to at least test it and see how it actually turns out.0 -
Slugging is effective in 2v8 because hooking sends the survivor far away where they are completely safe and frequently right next to another player to be put back into hte game within a few seconds and because you don't know where they are coming off the hook sending someone to a hook generates very little pressure. However someone who is slugged is right next to a killers current location, and needs to recover for ~30 seconds before they can be picked up at uncaging speeds and when they are you know exactly where to go to begin pressuring them again before they can be fully healed. The end result is that a slugged survivor generates a lot more pressure on the team.
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No problem.
Yes, it would create more dynamics, and the Survivors would have to spend time opening chests and finding flashlights for the flashlight saves, and they would have to try to go under pallets while their teammates come for the save, which draws in more potential hooks from Killer POV. Then it is a battle of securing the hook by checking around for the saviors, injuring and downing them if you can, or at least zone them away and you might have to back each other up for it. I personally think it would be very interesting to at least test it and see how it actually turns out.0 -
You can still make comebacks and bodyblocking is less of an issue, since you don't have the time sink that comes with hooking people. You just cage and move on.
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