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Killers that don't camp and tunnel like me get punished
Increasing hook phase from 60 to 70 seconds. Thanks for punishing those who do not camp and tunnel. Amazing, really. It only makes me want to play only survivor or stop playing altogether.
Comments
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How does that punish players who don't camp?
If anything, from my perspective, the effects it'll have on my gameplay are either neutral or outright positive.
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Well, so you know the answer right?
As killer I almost never tunnel myself.
With that change, I can easily switch to tunneling to offset this new handicap.
Fun? No! But it'll work.
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I REFUSE TO TUNNEL. I'll just stop playing the game that's the right choice.
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I'm quite sincerely asking you, because this perspective seems very silly to me. The only thing I've seen people gesture towards vaguely is the idea that survivors would stick on gens for longer and neglect saves, but that's at worst an opportunity for you to snowball pressure, so if that is what you're referring to I was hoping for a more in depth explanation.
I'm not a troll, I just don't automatically agree with you.
Post edited by EQWashu on12 -
You can let people hang on the hook for longer while you do gens and then go for the save at the last minute.
It punishes campers, but it also buffs the gens before friends strategy, which is effective regardless if the killer camps.
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Like I said above, that's not actually to your detriment as a killer.
If you're not trying to progress hook stages, IE, camping, then someone being on the hook longer is better for you. Yes, the survivors on generators are progressing their generators, but A: They're progressing the objective slower than if their hooked teammate were doing gens, and B: So are you.
More ability to snowball pressure by putting survivors on the back foot, when multiple players need saving and healing while you're still actively playing and making that situation worse for them because you aren't trying to defend the hooks you're getting.
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See above. I was hoping to see a more in depth argument because I'm not automatically right myself, and I like to assume people whose statements don't make sense have some deeper understanding I'm not seeing yet. I don't like to assume the worst of people, personally.
Also, y'know, I didn't actually know if that was your reasoning.
Post edited by Rizzo on5 -
I fail to understand your logic. If you aren't camping or tunneling then this will have no impact on you what-so-ever. Hell, increase it to a hundred seconds and it would have the same impact. The longer a survivor just sits around on a hook, the longer they aren't working generators. If you aren't camping then the survivors will likely unhook long before the time limit is up anyway. So what is the problem exactly?
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straight up bad change. not only camping got massive nerf, its already a very very bad strategy leaving 3 other survivor smash the gens and get out. this change doesnt punish the campers at all, it only punishes killers who try to spread hooks. but dbd devs obviously lack the necessary skill to understand that so now every killer got base kit nerfed.
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It can definitely be to your detriment.
While you temporarily take one Survivor out of the game, there's really not much difference at all whether you unhook at one second or 59. The amount of progression you get as a killer is the same.
Instead of a Survivor being pressured by needing to unhook, they can put progress into a generator, and THEN go for an unhook. That way you're still making extra progress towards the objective, without the killer getting any extra progress.
You could punish this by forcing a trade or getting an extra stage, but this change makes that less likely to happen. It makes super efficient play less risky overall.
You only really get Survivors doing that once you start getting to the higher levels of play. A lot of survivors don't understand that you don't need to immediately unhook a Survivor once they're on a hook, and sometimes the better play is to just let em hang.
Greeding gens is an undeniably effective strategy, there's a reason people do it.
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If you aren't camping a hook, this does literally nothing to you.
It's still in the survivors' best interests to get their teammate off hook as soon as possible, and (supposedly) the killer isn't camping, so you're out pressuring survivors.
Literally nothing changes in that scenario.
The only time this affects anything is if the killer is waiting around the hook, or waiting to go back to hook. If you aren't going to pressure the survivors actually doing gens, that's basically camping or proxy camping. In which case, this change should make you really consider going and pressuring survivors who are actively doing gens.
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Exactly. How can people not see that a survivor hanging on a hook is essentially "out of the game" until they are rescued? Leaving that survivor hanging for prolonged periods of time while the killer is applying pressure elsewhere is not beneficial for the survivor team.
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I can only hope that this change has been made cause the long term plan is to eventually increase the gens to 100 seconds.
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The problem with this rundown is that it's not "extra" progress. It's less progress, because there's one fewer survivor contributing to the overall progression.
I'm not saying it's always actively detrimental to greed a gen over a save, there are reasons and times to do it, but it's also not always beneficial. Sometimes, you risk being put on the back foot if the killer is actively pressuring your teammates, and whatever gen repair you get done in the short term is offset by the fact that now everyone's scrambling to reset and no generators are being done whatsoever.
If they go for a save at second one, as you put it, the hooked survivor is healed and back on gens sooner, which means the gens actually get more progression while you're off chasing someone somewhere else.
The risk in that efficient play isn't that the hooked survivor will progress to stage two, not always. Sometimes the risk is that someone else gets downed sooner than you want and you're at a massive time detriment trying to undo that damage.
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because hook stages are more free. you have more time to leave people on hook. it is not like hook regression goes faster for killer leaving the hook. it stays the same.
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The longer someone is on a hook, the more pressure it creates for you. The more reason survivors have to unhook.
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This is a very confused take.
It's never in the survivors' best interest to leave someone on hook. It's why instant unhooking and hook bombing exists, because survivors want to reduce the pressure from the hook as soon as possible.
Leaving someone on hook for the entire duration is just making the game a 1v3 while someone is in time out. I don't think I have to explain why a 1v3 situation is detrimental to survivors.
The only reason people wouldn't go for an unhook is if the killer is waiting at the hook and not pressuring the survivors doing gens (ie, camping). Which is exactly the scenario this change is designed to target.
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Same thing for the limited gen kick they did, it punishes the killer who aren't trying to keep a 3 gen but still defend generators. I had a game on Gideon where I had already eliminated 2 survivors, but because I kept up the pressure I got punished for kicking the same gen, and when the last 2 were alive I couldn't do anything except for semi-puppy guard the gen since it was blocked for me and practically at 99%. I got the third person out and let the last person escape through the hatch, but if 3 or 4 survivors were still alive it would've been a different story.
I hate the gen kick nerf because it punishes the killers who are doing well enough to just keep up with the survivors, and then it gives them a free gen once you can no longer kick it.
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In an odd way, this might be a teeny, tiny assistance towards killers who do not tunnel or camp. Survivors may think 10 seconds is longer than it is and become a bit too complacent, meaning there may well be a small amount of time longer it's just 3v1.
Again, it's really minor, but a hook is still a hook, and it doesn't change the pressure put on survivors. I doubt this will do much except create a bump in the road for campers.
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It's never in the survivors' best interest to leave someone on hook. It's why instant unhooking and hook bombing exists, because survivors want to reduce the pressure from the hook as soon as possible.
what no. hook bombing is terrible teammate gameplay. instant aggressive unhooking is also poor play. the most ideal way to play survivor is to leave survivors on hook for like 50 seconds and than save survivor at very last 10 seconds of the hook. This way, you get maximum amount of generator pressure and killer gets lower amount of reward.
Instant aggressive unhooking has name for survivor. Survivor often called this hook farming. Your teammate is farming your hook stages and the killer is just tunneling because It is free hook stages. In fact, there is a killer entirely based around where he has a cage mechanic to send survivors into cage in order to bait survivors into instant cage unhooking so that he can tunnel out of the game. yes i am refer pyramid head. This gameplay loop is so basic that almost every experienced survivor player understands this to a dime.3 -
I mean this change is easily up there with one of if not the most short sighted change they have ever made lol. This is a minor buff to soloq and a gigamassivebigPP buff to swf the likes of which you have never seen before. The only thing this change does is let survivors be greedy. You can legit double up on a 0% gen, finish it entirely then go unhook your teammate and lose nothing. This is like adding an extra gen for survivors (an extra 80s worth of hook states) to do per match this is just outright stupid. You will make SWF a nightmare to deal with, camping and tunneling isn't nearly bad enough for you to make a change like this and this is coming from someone who almost exclusively plays solo-q now, please reconsider this extremely shortsighted change.
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Why would anyone ignore a hooked survivor for 69 seconds if the killer is not camping? Being in a 3v1 is one of the worst situations to be in, so why would a swf double up on a gen and not save their teammate?
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Hard work is always rewarded with more hard work.
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I've previously said that "every time something gets basekit buffed for survivor, people always come on here and threaten to tunnel, camp or slug in protest." Glad to see, once again, that this trend is holding strong.
I sincerely doubt that any threats to engage in [insert complained-about behavior here] as a [protest against, revenge for, however you want to frame it] the hook nerfs and perk buffs will be long-lived, just as all other threats to engage in those activities have not resulted in serious changes to peoples' playstyles over the long term.
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More like it's a sensible change that should have happened when they increased gen times. Camping should never be incentivized by making it even easier.
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It's about time efficiency, this change removes the killer's ability to punish greedy play and rewards survivors for being greedy, both of which are not healthy. There is nothing wrong with going out of your way to punish survivors who make mistakes, this change effectively makes it easier for survivors to not make a mistake while also removing the ability to punish them.
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I was referencing this post:
probably should have quoted it MB
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While you temporarily take one Survivor out of the game, there's really not much difference at all whether you unhook at one second or 59. The amount of progression you get as a killer is the same.
Instead of a Survivor being pressured by needing to unhook, they can put progress into a generator, and THEN go for an unhook. That way you're still making extra progress towards the objective, without the killer getting any extra progress.
Just to try and illustrate this a little bit…
1 survivor on hook for 70 seconds = 0 charges
1 survivor in chase = 0 charges
1 survivor on gen for 70 seconds = 70 charges
1 survivor on gen for 60 seconds and then unhooking for 10 = 60 charges
This totals 130 charges.
Conversely, with an immediate rescue, there'll be
1 survivor on hook for 10 seconds, then on gen for 60 = 60 charges
1 survivor in chase = 0 charges
1 survivor on gen for 70 seconds = 70 charges
1 survivor unhooking for 10 seconds, then going on gen for 60 seconds = 60 charges
This totals 190 charges.
Now, the numbers are all guesstimations, of course, but this is to illustrate how much more efficient it is for survivors to pull survivors off hooks earlier, rather than later. These extra ten seconds are not going to make a meaningful difference to a non-camping killer.
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Well that's not entirely true...
It gives a little bit more time and safety for survivors to complete gens, and gives a little bit more time to complete resets before they have to go for saves. Might be a little more beneficial for SWF than SoloQ...
That said, I don't think it's gonna be this catastrophic game breaking change. It'll make a slight difference, and it nudges killers to getting more out of splitting pressure instead of camping... but I don't think it's something that fundamentally breaks killer, especially given vast majority of killers have been getting not insignificant basekit buffs over the past 6 months or so.
I think the 60% kill rate is still BHVRs target, so if there is a major shift, we'll see further changes down the line.
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It's like clockwork hey lol
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It's crazy to me that you have to break it down so simply for people to understand lol good post
A survivor on hook is, as someone else said, essentially in time out leaving the team a 3v1. It's always in the team's best interest to get someone off hook and back in the game. I've been a survivor main for 4 years and this is just common sense knowledge. Unhook me and I'm back on a gen immediately. Leave me on hook and the objective doesn't get furthered.
Those who don't camp won't feel this impact because the hooked survivor will be unhooked 9 times out of 10 without the extra 10s being necessary. Those who do camp will feel this impact because the team may opt to just stay on a gen rather than attempt a save if the killer is hanging around.
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What am I reading? How these 3 survivors are smashing gens like you said if you are not camping? Can't you find and hook at least one of them?
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I still struggle to picture a scenario in which it is better for survivors to simply leave someone on a hook, unless the killer is camping.
A hooked survivor can't progress the game. This is something killers want and survivors don't want so it is almost always better to save as soon as the killer is far enough away so that the previously hooked survivor can continue to contribute to the game.
You talk about time efficiency, but as I said, if the killer isn't camping, it is not time efficient to ignore a hooked survivor. And if the killer was camping, then this system is meant to make it less effective.
Post edited by Hex_Ignored on1 -
It's about time efficiency, this change removes the killer's ability to punish greedy play
It doesn't. The exact same scenarios can and will still play out, just ten seconds later than normal.
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If you're not camping hooked survivors as killer, the other survivors will unhook before 60 seconds have passed on average and this change won't affect you.
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Killer mains got too used to the devs catering to them for years and making the game extremely killer sided. Now that 2v8 is probably going to come permanent those days are over.
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