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Remove Flashbang + Background Player Already
It's uncounterable and not heathy for the game
Comments
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Lightborn counters Flashbang. Background Player, frankly, isn't that hard a perk to deal with - haste is useless if the killer can keep their eyes on you.
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Equip Knock Out and Infectious Fright. You can swap Infectious with Ultimate Weapon, you just need to open the closes locker after a down
Use some add-ons that can cause Mangled and Blindness. If you can't then use Sloppy Butcher. You want to delay the healing as much as possible. For the remaining perks use something for chases. Enduring and Spirit Fury is a nice comboAlways slug and never hook anyone
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It's already half killed IIRC
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equipping 1 perk slot for something you cannot predict is stupid. keeping LOS on a player with BP isn't guaranteed
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equipping 2 perk slots for something you cannot predict is stupid. i do not always want to use UW. why is healing important for BP? I see no connection. slugging is boring for killers and survs.
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wdym
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I'm just giving you advice by showing a different playstyle, since you look too worried about saves. Just slug and then you should never be worried anymore. Besides, slugging is stronger than hooks.
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Wasn't 200% speed changed to like 150% already
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you are correct. i slug when i find an opportunity to punish greedy survivors, but sometimes i have to pick up — then i find out that they had BG + flashbang then everything i've done up until that point was for nothing
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perhaps, but it's not BP's fault. they need to make flashbangs not able to blind you when you are facing walls
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Do my build for a couple of games, just to give it a shot
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they're buffing flashbang from 50% to 40%. Jokes on you.
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Lightborn I never leave home without it.
Too many toxic flashlight clickers and flashbangers for my liking and lightborn puts their gas at a peep.
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I love this thread not because of the topic but because of how funny it is that when a killer perk or a killer has no counterplay aka old eruption or old slinger people scream that it need to be nerfed, which is absolutelly fair, and telling people to equip perks to counter it or make it weaker is bad game design.
But when the no counterplay strategy pertains to the survivor side there is absolutelly no issue just equip x perk, hey dont hook, you are just bad.
Imo when something has no counterplay it should be looked at and changed for both sides but this is just hilarious.
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What was the Eruption counterplay? Not doing gens?
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Nothing, as I said eruption had no counterplay and was a BS perk, it needed its nerf.
Much like getting flashbanged while looking at a wall. But I feel you will quite disagree with the second one, just a hunch of a feeling.
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So you admit there IS counterplay in your perk you just don’t wanna use them. Thats on you.
I need people to realize that you’re not going to go into every single match being able to counter every situation. That’s why perk choice is a roll of the dice. You’re not meant to be able to counter every situation in every match. That doesn’t mean there is no counter. You just didn’t bring the thing to help you counter it.
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By this logic old ultimate weapon and weave attunement are balanced, which you would be delusional to think so.
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Ultimate Weapon was bad because it encouraged slugging for the 4k
Weave is fine imo
But again, slugging is stronger than hooking, regardless if the survivors are running flashbangs or not. It's exactly the same case as gens going too fast that most people complain, among other things. Just tunnel the first survivor out and proxy camp the next ones. Take a survivor out of the match as soon as possible for a better game. Or you could just slug with Knock Out as well.
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You don't even have to maintain los. It's apparently too much to ask killers to have situational awareness to know that there's even another survivor lurking in the chase.
It's not like they can keep up without leaving scratch marks or playing directly into killer info perks.
But hey, I guess when they do nerf this eventually survivors will just go back to doing nothing but gens so that can be complained about again too.
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Having background player to 20 seconds makes players so annoying just let me hook
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If you don't want to run Lightborn, you don't get to then claim there is no counter to Flashbang - that's a you problem. Same with not being about to keep LOS on someone just because they're moving faster.
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I don't think BP is an issue any more, but what does having LoS on them have to do with anything? You are locked into an animation, blinded, and locked into another stun animation. How does seeing them do all of this have anything to do with countering it?
On topic, flashbangs aren't really fun to deal with but they aren't impossible. If you know someone is trying to go for the save the best thing to do is either slug or try and bait them out by faking the pick up. Harder with BP because they can be further away, but usually chasing them away just a small amount can make it so they don't have enough distance to make it in time.
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Putting on any of the perks that remove or minimizes stun makes BP completely useless. Being a little faster than the killer is irrelevant if they can still see you, and therefore follow you, and quickly catch up with you. Plus, if they're a ranged or fast killer, makes BP even easy to counter so long as you can still see the survivor.
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Weave attunement is nowhere near the power level of ultimate weapon, of course it is balanced
Just that it curbstomps any new players or bad solo players
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But that's not the issue they or anyone has with it, it's that they are having difficulty dealing with the rescue. Seeing the rescuer run off isn't an issue at all. The speed boost from BP isn't for getting away, it's for making a save from a distance the killer can't play around as easily. No one is complaining about not being able to find the BP player after the save. And even if you have Lightborn you can't catch up anyway because you are slowed down while carrying and have to go for a hook so tracking the BP player isn't even something you should be focusing on.
Also no perk minimises the stuns from rescues aside from Lightborn removing it.
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Flashbangs are definitely overpowered. The fact that you can blind the killer mid-animation, even if they're looking at a wall, is just unfair. Background Player makes it worse by letting you hide at double the usual distance and still get the blind, which makes positioning way too easy.
From a survivor's perspective, it’s easy to say “just run Lightborn,” but since killers can only choose four perks, having to use one just to counter an unbalanced mechanic isn’t great design. A lot of people will compare this to Distortion, saying you shouldn’t need a perk just to counter aura reading. But Distortion is actually an S tier perk because it blocks the best tracking method, reveals which perks the killer is running, and if it doesn’t activate, it still helps by telling you they’re not using aura reading.
Flashbangs are really tricky to balance. Making the audio cue clearer would mess things up for players with poor hearing, and a visual cue would make them only work against bad killers. But the ability to flash the killer even when they're facing a wall should've never been a thing and the fact that it's not getting fixed is worrying
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I'm just gonna hop on the lighborn meta train and ride it out until something happens. so stupid we have to resort to this. i see flashbangs every other match i swear
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Lightborne is gonna be one of the four perk slots every Killer equips now, enjoy that fun while it lasts.
Besides this, every other stun has a counter besides a singular perk. Flashlights? Look away. Pallets? Use care. DS? Don't tunnel/fall for bait. Head On, Power Struggle, etc.? Don't fall for bait.
What counter besides Lightborne does Flashbang have? We know when Survivors do it. It's when they know the Killer can't do anything about it.1 -
Flashbangs are easy as hell to avoid. They have a loud audio cue that sounds off like 1.5 seconds before they detonate. Survivors try using them against me and I’m looking up or away or wherever before it even goes off. I never get blinded. lol
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OK, but what do you do when you're mid-pickup facing a wall and hear the little click?
And as a reminder, not everyone plays with headphones. Some players are hard of hearing. Not everyone hears the click.
Flashbang needs a better counter than a really soft hard to hear soundcue.
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The counter is slug everyone running this combo in the match and then start hooking
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equipping 1 perk slot for something you cannot predict is stupid.That's a fine position, but you're going to need to expand your argument a lot more. Don't like slugging? Unbreakable. Don't like tunneling? OTR and DS. Don't like Spirit? Iron Will and Lightfooted.
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That's not a rare argument either
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It's not, but it's a pretty big component of where the game is at. If we tried to solve every issue of perks = counterplay we might not have much of a game left.
We can discuss any particular instance on why it may or may not go too far, but it needs to be done in context of what the game is about.
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This is a common complaint lately, and I really have difficulty understanding how people have no idea the flashbang rescuer is there.
They're following the entire chase. Leaving scratch marks, making sure they're close by for the inevitable down and pickup. They can't keep up with the chase if they're just crouching and walking, they have to be effectively chasing the killer.
So, to me, the answer to this is situational awareness. If you're so tunnel visioned that you don't realize a second survivor is literally chasing you in not sure what advice to give you on this. You already have a second person voluntarily not doing gens and in the times this has happened to me I can either fake a pickup or just slug and chase the other survivor. This is literally free pressure for the killer.
I never run lightborn. I think it's a waste of a slot, and if someone is choosing to try and blind over gens, then I want to actively encourage that. I'm pretty good at this point at avoiding useful blinds/saves with the base mechanics. Not perfect, but I gain so much by people who stand still to blind me at a pallet instead of "holding w". Otherwise, just look up in almost every situation.
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The problem is not this perk combination, it is a bug that has been in the game for several patches now.
Previously, as a killer, if you picked up a survivor and faced a wall, you would be fine. However, there is a bug right now that causes other survivors to not have collision with the killer when they pick up a survivor. This means that a survivor can run INSIDE the killer and drop the flashbang, making it so even if you are facing the wall, it still goes off and blinds you.
This also has an impact at pallets to prevent saves. There are many cases for example where say, you pick up a survivor on one side of a pallet, body blocking a survivor from coming to the pallet for the save, forcing them to go around the front side and drop it, but if you know they are behind you, they won't have time.
If they fix this bug, it will not only fix the pallet save issue, but also properly "nerfs" this background player + flashbang combo, because you will once again be able to properly look at a wall to prevent yourself from getting blinded.
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Not everyone again, wears headphones. You seem to have conveniently missed that part of my post though. It's also an accessibility issue for deaf or hard of hearing players.
If they can't hear the footsteps or the click, they won't know, and a reminder that Background Player even at 150% means they won't always KNOW the person is following them. They don't "always follow you around in the chase for the save". They can hide their footsteps in the chase music which on some Killers is loud, run perks that hide scratch marks, etc. I have seen this happen. This is part of the game and not a glitch. This is fine. Perks are supposed to work this way, and the issue is with some sounds probably not being loud enough for these gamers.
Reminder that, until the coming Dracula chapter, the scratch marks were glitched and not bright enough. Someone may not have seen them due to being spaced far apart and erratic due to a glitch, and due to how dark they were.
And reminder that, as Reinami points out Flashbangs never used to work this way. You could face a wall before no problem. But as of about the patch where they turbobuffed Background Player to 200% (which they reverted later), possibly earlier, a glitch occurred where for some reason Survivors could glitch into the killer's model mid-pickup, drop the flashbang and blind them even while facing a wall. This glitch hasn't been patched so right now, the only way to prevent it is slugging or Lightborne. This is a known glitch.
It's not always that they don't know the rescuer is there. Sometimes it's that they can know the rescuer is there and still get hit, or not realize the rescuer is there at all due to a bunch of glitches, or not know that a smart Survivor used gameplay tools to set up because of an outplay with certain perks. You can't "just look up" when you're animation locked, which is when Survivors do Flashbang saves, they have no reason to do it any other time if they're not derping around. THAT is why it's being complained about lately - because two of those reasons for this happening more frequently are not skill issues, they are actual uncounterable BS.0 -
I agree that background player is still too strong but why always suddendly call for a removal? this will never happen, imagine if bhvr would take away things that people unlocked, let alone payed money for. (yes some people buy characters for their perks only)
Couldve asked for a nerf for background player instead, so people would have an easyer time agreeing with you. And flashbang is litteraly fine, its only so strong because of background player right now, which wouldnt be the case if background player was propperly nerfed when they did it.2 -
this 100%
Its so old news to me, there is a huge bias around.0 -
by that logic, why do we have anti 3-gen, anti facecamp and anti tunneling mechanics?
BT, OTR, DS, BnP and toolboxes, various genrush perks and even a perk that stops the sacrifice timer (forgot the name, its from rebecca).. Tools are there, but people didnt want to use it and demanded solutions by the devs, then these solutions get introduced. But when something on the killer side is unfair, we have to adapt and dont get any mechanic to hold our hands.0 -
3 gens were holding matches hostage for 45 minutes to an hour until survivors either gave up or just DCed. BT was because every killer was going back to hook to tunnel people out preventing them from being able to play the match. Anti camp was because killers were camping people to death to prevent them from being able to participate in the match. None of the perks you mentioned fully prevented/countered any of that (and still don’t) which is why you still don’t see people running them every match. DS still does not prevent tunneling and neither does OTR which is why they’re not META being used every single match.
Flashbang and BP are not preventing killers from being able to participate in the match, not to mention that tunneling camping and slugging are killer tactics that don’t require the killer to run any perks or add ons to be effective at. Killers literally have 3 useful tactics for free on top of running their 4 perks and two add-ons. Survivors do not have any such tactics that are free, don’t require perk slots to be run, and can completely prevent the killer from being able to play the match. That’s the difference.
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If it’s an in game bug then everyone should be reporting it and pressuring the devs to fix it. Instead asking for nerfs to a perk and an item to counter a bug is ridiculous. Then what happens when they finally fix the bug? You have nerfs to stuff that didn’t need it? Thats silly.
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Don't hesitate on Forced Hesitation
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They already pretty much did with the BP nerf.
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Exactly. Did they ever respond? Likely not. lol. There is nothing you can do. Which isnt cool.
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They didn't @MechWarrior3, but someone else sure did.
It's not okay to have situations that you CANNOT avoid period in the game because of developer oversights or glitches. That should simply not exist.
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