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2x8 What's up with all of this cage returning tunneling that happing in every match now?

I was playing with a friend and they were upset about the cage retuning killers. I was like, "I never know where the cages are when I play killer, other then when I randomly happen upon them." They replied that the killers down someone and then run straight across the map. I didn't believe it until I saw this happen five games in a row. What's going on? I thought 2x8 was suppose to be chill and stuff. Why are killers acting like they do in 1vs4?

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Answers

  • NekoGamerX
    NekoGamerX Member Posts: 5,295

    yea it happening to me too a lot now if this mode returns cages need to be more random.

  • AchlysShadeslayer
    AchlysShadeslayer Member Posts: 21

    Well, I can tell you having 3 m1 killers, 1 insanely difficult character, and then huntress. So unless you play huntress the 100,000 pallets make the game a nightmare

  • drsoontm
    drsoontm Member Posts: 4,903

    Probably the best way to counter the massively parallel gens that I've seen these past three days.

  • Tostapane
    Tostapane Member Posts: 1,655

    maybe you just had bad luck… happen more than you can think you know? besides, if the killers are willingly doing so probably it's because survivors are particularly toxic (rarely i get people respectful in my lobbies. most of the survivors tbag knowing that you can't catch them if the other killer isn't around due to the HUGE quantity of pallets present in the map… some even trashtalk in the endchat just for the sake of being toxic) or simply put rush gens, even under your nose (in that case it's fair to apply the concept "you tunnel generators so i tunnel survivors")

  • 100PercentBPMain
    100PercentBPMain Member Posts: 1,094

    Not healing near generators helps. If I anticipate a Wraith trying to guess my unhook location I'll Urban Evade away and find somebody else to heal me or just sneak off and do a gen injured

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 3,160

    survivors are adapting however and intercepting to body block during a cage tunnel

  • Bookern
    Bookern Member Posts: 336

    Me the humble Trapper: TRAP TRAP TRAP TRAP TRAP TRAP

  • CLHL
    CLHL Member Posts: 184

    Once you figure out how the system works, it is easy to traverse the map as Wraith just in time for the rescue. It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the 2-3 survivors who came to heal you and now they bodyblock your escape or stay camping the pallets as you try to defend yourself.

  • Rawrbot5k
    Rawrbot5k Member Posts: 79

    I've only seen the skiddish survivors that run at the first sign of a heartbeat. So I can't concur on that one.

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,477
    edited August 1

    Because killers have lot more time pressure than 1v4, without even any kind of slowdowns

    1v4 is already an tunnelfest due to sheer speed of generators, now we have better sprintburst better pallets less gens and no slowdown, why did you thought it will be a "chill and fun" even

    Hell, tunneling is literally the only way to stop survivors from "denying killers from playing a game", as game will ends in sub 3 minutes otherwise

  • Tostapane
    Tostapane Member Posts: 1,655

    first of all tunneling isn't toxic, you can call it extremely unfun, but toxicity lies elsewhere (letting people bleeding on the ground despite hooks are available, hitting on the hook, keep walking on a dying survivor, etc etc)… it's a strategy and quite effective and secondly are you currently blaming the killer for doing their objective as well? please, at least be honest without having double standards… i'm not a guy that tunnel (i don't like it since i know how it feels when you are constantly chased without a break), but if i see people that actually play to win (aka play optimally: taking hits with basekit bt in order to protect their savior, sabotage my hooks when i'm trying to hook someone, don't fear of the killer and keep doing generators under your nose despite being really close to them) or are mean (tbags) i will adapt my gameplay as well because you are giving me no choices but to play in that way if i want to do at least some points

  • appleas
    appleas Member Posts: 1,128
    edited August 1

    It's counting hooks except on a 8 player scale. Even seasoned players like Otz and Hens were keeping track of Survivors they first hooked even though they probably didn't need to and could just go for chases.

    It's the optimization mindset setting in

    If it was 9 or 10 gens being required to fix, Killers could probably go for more chases instead of hooks but since there's only 8 gens and lots of pallets on the maps, Killers will have to use strategy to make up for the time shortage

  • Rage_In_The_Cage
    Rage_In_The_Cage Member Posts: 36

    Never had this happen in my matches. At worst, sometimes a killer is run to me after I am uncaged and getting healed.

  • For_The_People
    For_The_People Member Posts: 576
    edited August 1

    I would imagine for some it is just habits. Those who tunnel regularly in normal matches probably do so. I think for some they may see it as genuine efficiency (I’ll let others debate that one) but for some I suspect they enjoy the feeling of power in tormenting someone else. It’s kind of like that player who knows they’re throwing the match but as long as they kill that one person they have set their mind to, they don’t care.

  • Halloulle
    Halloulle Member Posts: 1,347

    Applying your logic:

    If the survs are willingly doing so probably it's because killers are particularly toxic (rarely do i get people respectful in my lobbies. Most of the killers greet you just after getting unhooked or hump you and virtually violate you for several minutes straight until you bleed out. Most of the killers do the former because it's so easy to know where cages spawn and the latter once it's down to three survs because they know its impossible for survs to complete the gens and they can scour the entire map to find them. Some even trashtalk in the endchat just for the sake of being toxic) or simply put tunnel and ignore pushing survs off gens (in that case it's fair to apply the concept "you tunnel survivors so I tunnel generators")

    Like the hell? Even if that logic were true on either side it neither justifies nor excuses being toxic. (plus, I think you just equated survivors doing gens at all - since they cant really gen rush in this mode since they cant bring the tools - with tunneling? if guides had a basekit bnp and spawned in with a commodious tb....maybe. but that isnt the case.)

  • Halloulle
    Halloulle Member Posts: 1,347

    killers habe insane gen regression basekit plus basekit nth to definitely find whoever was doing that hen and is still close. A nearly done gen regresses to zero in virtually no time.

    - Plus survivors have to traverse a huge map to get to a cage, and the potential to not even get there is quite big due to two killers likely being between them and the cage. That's massive passive slowdown. they also have regular aura read to be able to quickly find and surprise survs,which balances out the abundance of pallets (tho i do think both the aura read and the sheer amount of pallets could be tuned down a little).

  • Deathstroke
    Deathstroke Member Posts: 3,522

    My games have been lasting up to 15 minutes on killer without any tunneling and same playing as survivor. Quick matches only happen when killer players have no idea what they are doing. Even in 1vs4 those matches are pretty much as fast. Even when I played 8 man swf we could not gen rush in 2vs8 as consistently as in 1vs4. Killer swf:s could counter us.

  • Lost_Boy
    Lost_Boy Member Posts: 677

    2v8 suffers the same problem for killers in 1v4. If you don't have someone dead and a few on death hook by 3-4 gens you'll most likely lose. It's natural to target someone that is injured or you've hooked before. As far as tunneling goes I've not really seen anyone hooking and going for the unhook. In that scenario you basically have 1 killer trying to hold the map so gens will fly.

  • Tostapane
    Tostapane Member Posts: 1,655

    Fist of all tunneling isn't toxic, people should put this in their minds once and for all (like survivors sticked on generators), you like It or not this is the truth (irritating? Probably. But still a strategy nevertheless) and secondly this concept can be used even as survivor: if i see a killer that is tunneling someone be sure that i'll stick to generators because it means that the killer is actually trying to win rather than playing for fun. So i'll change my gameplay accordingly. As you said It goes both ways... In any case you should witness all the BS that i've aganist as killer then perhaps you'll see why i said those things... Regarding the 2vs8 mode survivors can genrush even here if they want (tbh it's even easier if they aren't potatoes) due to having tons of pallets at disposal and the map being bigger make all more easy…

  • Ikalx
    Ikalx Member Posts: 134

    Not gonna lie, I feel like this is where you start to see the mindset of some people when they play killer. Where their idea of playing the game is to actually play it as little as possible, and the only thing they want is for the number of players to go down. Honestly these people feel like the kind who would rather the game start with everybody on hook lmao.

    Also you can see the lie where some people playing the killer have a victim mindset because they're alone versus a team. If the same behaviour comes up when they play with a teammate what is the reason? Or is it just habit?

    To be fair, though, it's still the majority of killers who would rather play and catch you with skill, and tbh I live for a well placed axe from across the map - whether I'm the one throwing on getting hit 😁

  • kirbypower74
    kirbypower74 Member Posts: 5

    leave it to the dbd community to take the fun out of any and everything :)

  • Tostapane
    Tostapane Member Posts: 1,655

    Again is It aganist the rules? No. Is It pleasant to go aganist? Decisely No. Can be defined toxic? No since it's literally the killer's goal to kill survivors (it's like literally calling survivors toxic for doing generators... It's dumb since gens are their main goal).

    Regarding the 8vs2 mode consider It an alpha version of what It could be in the future... Don't forget that devs are actually TESTING this mode in the live version of the game (we can't consider It a full developed mode for many obvious reasons)

  • joeyspeehole
    joeyspeehole Member Posts: 104

    I definitely hope 2 vs 8 doesn't become a live version of the future of the game. I have played a lot of killer rounds, but I am not interested in the instant hooking aspect. I like the challenge of deciding how to pursue people base on the fact that I have to hook them. I am not a fan of kicking someone so that I can continue chasing nearby people. As far as the "how" is concerned, I completely understand that some people choose to tunnel. To me, tunneling is like littering because someone doesn't want to find the trash can. I don't mean to sound offensive, I just felt that something about the 2 vs 8 may be broken if many are resorting to tunneling.

  • Linkdouken
    Linkdouken Member Posts: 152

    Always a Wraith doing this

  • CrackedShevaMain
    CrackedShevaMain Member Posts: 481

    short answer: People who always feel they have to win at all costs have now optimized all the fun out of the game mode. This is with any game though. Once they discover the META then that’s all they run and the game becomes stale, boring and the same thing every match. Just like regular mode.

  • CaulDrohn
    CaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,596

    These long killer queue times are not that bad, at least you can watch one or two yt videos in the meantime, progressing your watch lost. With near instant survivor queues I cannot even watch one 10 minute video on one evening xD.

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 9,230

    There are 8 survivors on the map. When a survivor is caged they pop up on the other side of the map. Since most survivors run in the opposite side of the killers, the killers will stop finding survivors where they are and move to the side of the map where the caged survivor is at. Since survivors group up to heal and auras poping everywhere. There's a good chance the killer is going to find a recently unhooked survivor. Any killer will go towards the injured survivor. Take note there's no indication to the killer you were just unhooked. You look like any other injured survivor and there's too many to keep track of.

  • Rumplestiltskin
    Rumplestiltskin Member Posts: 138
    edited August 9

    What made you think 2v8 is supposed to be chill? It is the same competitive game, only with twice as many Survivors and twice as many Killers. I think you are operating under an incorrect assumption. My guess is that the code tends to throw the Survivor to the cages furthest away from were downed. Killers have figured out the pattern and now cut across the map by the shortest route (a straight line) toward the section of the map furthest from the point where they stomped. This gives them very good odds of getting there fast. I've seen the Wraith doing this job very well given the speed. The Wraith then proceeds to take a free hit on the one unhooking, and then decides which to run down from a selection of two targets.

    When you have really good coordination between Killers they have a 100% accurate rate of getting to the cage since the Survivor ends up at one of the two furthest away cages, so if in communication they just make sure one of them goes to each. Then the moment a sight-line is established the one who got the right one can relay the info to the other Killer and get joined for a conversion.

    This is the reality of the 2v8, and a very effective tactic. You have to expect that Killers are going to get better at maximizing their performance. They KNOW that with such a large number of Survivors that a rescuer is already on that side of the map or on the way. It is efficient, therefore, to be where your targets are going to be.

    Post edited by Rumplestiltskin on
  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 2,253

    Exactly, Killers have more pressure laid upon the Survivors in 2v8 with the removal of hooks on the Killer's end, so they have even less justification to intentionally tunnel.

    1v4 is only good to tunnel when the Killer is horrible at the game compared to the Survivors they are facing. It is the only way to squeeze a win out of a deserved loss. This artificially inflates egos, making those Killers think they 'earned' their win, and puts them in this psychological death spiral of "I need to tunnel to win", and losing is merely "I didn't tunnel enough". Once they actually gain enough skill to walk without crutches, they can easily win the vast majority of matches without them.

    The gameplay loop for Killer is 1 on hook, 1 in chase, 1 going for the rescue/heal, and 1 on gens. It takes 90s*5-7, or 7m30s-10m30s, for the gens to pop with a base Killer who can actually fill that gameplay loop, far from the 3m from an AFK Killer that you allege is normal.

  • basedkiller916
    basedkiller916 Member Posts: 58

    I've also been in games as killer where literally 3-4 gens pop back to back. Gotta keep the pressure up somehow but yall never wanna talk about genrush and how little tools killers get to actually deal with it against even semi decent survivors

  • BlightedDolphin
    BlightedDolphin Member Posts: 1,875

    I think there are 2 reasons why:

    1. You can see the aura of the survivor healing them when a gen pops. The survivor that was uncaged doesn't have their aura revealed, which was a nice attempt to reduce tunnelling, but when you see someone across the map healing thin air it's pretty obvious what is happening.
    2. There's so many survivors and a lot of overlap in character (there's always like 2-3 Sable's and Lara's every game in my experience) that often you forget who you are even chasing and happen to find them again.

    There's no way to fix the second one but they could easily fix the first one by making it so your aura is hidden when healing a teammate that was uncaged in the last 10 or so seconds. Or just simply hide your aura for a couple seconds after uncaging/being uncaged someone.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,906

    or because wraith and billy are strategic good for tunneling and eliminating someone out of the game early is key to slow down generators in 2vs8.

  • joeyspeehole
    joeyspeehole Member Posts: 104

    If I hit them, and see that they're emitting white, I usually don't pursue them. I get it though, when it's on accident.

  • bm33
    bm33 Member Posts: 8,267

    I get why killers are doing it - it's a quick way for an easy win, especially if the survivor isn't good in a chase. There's also nothing to discourage the tunneling. They learned the cage spawns, there's aura reading everytime a gen finishes, they can easily avoid BT, and there's no DS to worry about. It definitely doesn't help when survivors are choosing to rescue in front of the killer instead of waiting 2 seconds for the cage to move.

    BHVR could implement something in the next iteration to protect the survivor from being tunneled out as quickly. Maybe a basekit DS where the survivor jumps up to stun the killer and then given haste to run away, that may help discourage tunneling and make the killers start going after the other nearby survivors instead of the rescued survivor.

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,477

    More like killers realized the time pressure in 2v8 is nowhere near comparable to 1v4, and since there is no perk builds or anything they are just forced to tunnel someone out if they want to play the game