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Lame meta incoming
Already predicting this because more and more survivors are legitimately getting tired of it.
So 85% of games:
Pop, pain res, grim embrace. Almost a neccesity on low mobility killers, removes all interactive options for survivor on high mobility killers.
So a quick chaser like blight, even if survivors do 3 gens seperately, pain res applies to the highest gen, block all gens when they run off, pop once its unblocked.
The counterplay to this? Hiding. Waiting till the killer has left, finish a gen, hide again. No chases, no running around the map. Just hiding.
I miss the days when gen regression was mutually exclusive with Ruin and Pop like Exhaustion perks. Cant wait to see regression perks become mutually exclusive again. Individually buffed, but exclusive
Comments
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I cant miss the days when people didnt complain about regression perks because there were none.
Every single game slowdown meta we had was complained about. No exception.
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If only there was a perk that countered this strat…
pro tip: It also increases zombies gen hearing range, which makes them beasts in multifloored maps!
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Ruin Pop was complained about because it was the only thing you saw. Kinda the same reason why people (still) complain about Prove Thyself.
And same with Ruin Undying after the Undying nerf, mainly because it was so common.
Every other gen regression meta was rightfully complained about, because there always was a balancing oversight with certain killers, or a new gen regression perk is added with almost 0 consideration of the effects with other perks.
Gen Regression is very easy to overtune, especially considering more regression, gen blocking or slowdown like thana. Having them be exclusive, its much easier to keep em balanced.3 -
kinda, but you're assuming you can finish a full patrol round before that gen can be popped
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There's a reason top tier killers are defined by mobility, they can do something about this problem. Surveillance is an unconterable info perk that synergizes with the meta (pop, pain res, opression, surge, etc).
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I mean, I started using it since it basically works like a better nowhere to hide with killers that have mobility.
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Incoming? Those have been pretty standard perks for awhile.
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the issue with current and most other regression metas we had is that they had to be more overpowered than not to encourage people into healthier playstyles since anything else just guarantees killers will play in an unhealthy way since it's not discouraged in any way.
We kinda just have to have slowdown/regression meta that favours chasing killers because everything else ends up a disaster. Overbrine meta had killers preferring to kick gens over chasing survivors for example. Not good.
as for "the only thing you saw", it's the same everywhere. Everyone runs the same perks with minor alterations. People had similar issues with ruin/pop as they do now with pain embrace.
Everyone runs bc it's good → people who deal with it hate it because it's everywhere and it's good.
If anything, I'd be thankful for current killer meta as it gives survivors a pretty good chance to win games as it allows survivors to maintain their momentum in case they managed to secure early game and not get snowballed.
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THIS! the mft ultimate weapon meta was the worst meta and the 3 gen meta nearly killed the game… if anything we have one of the best metas ever…
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whoa there! wHat… they using gen defense still? no way
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I mean I'd rather use aura reading perks but those are either nerfed or completely countered by distortion
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if you killer to go for more chases, they need more time to do that. these perk are shadow of their former self. you should be explaining why you think these perks are over-tuned.
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I mean what else are they expected to use, thee is nothing else. Or are you saying that they should just hand the game to Survs with stacked toolboxes and never run any gen control and basically let you win?
Defending gens is part of the job description as KIller. Gen regression is a necessary part of that as long as Gen PROgression remains in the game. The more gen progression you all stack, the more that Killers feel the need to run gen control, because one of their emblems comes from holding gens down long enough. If they want points and to pip, they have to do this; it's just how the game is designed and encourages them to play.You simply are never getting rid of gen regression or ever going to see it not be popular. The harder Survs want to win by bringing gen stuff, the harder Killers want to win by bringing gen regression. Even in its nerfed state. They could literally nerf these perks into the ground entirely and Killers would still stack four of them, because it really is that important especially in higher level play and especially for any Killer that isn't highly mobile. This is a game design flaw. The easiest fix is addressing gen speedup perks and tools, but they won't. If you want more chase, Killers need more reason than not to chase than they do to drag the game out to do ANYTHING. And right now, all gen regression is not all that likely to do much unless you stack them.
The more you nerf gen perks for Killer, the more Killers WILL stack them… because there is nothing left for half the Roster.3 -
And that's probably why Distortion is being changed too.
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was pointing out the fact that killers always run gen defense so i don't know why the op even pretending like there some new meta.
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Iunno I'm personally sick of the "how dare 1 gen get done" or "how dare this survivor last longer than 10 seconds in chase" in which the killer slugs everyone and let's them bleed out at 4 or 5 gens meta.
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If people are complaining about gen slowdown at this point, it's a skill issue. Maybe not with them, if they're solo. But somebody on their team. Because these slowdown perks do nothing. I haven't relied on slowdown for a very long time, aside from a short season of Pop/Pain Res after Unknown's release but before their second nerfs. Regression doesn't do anything vs good survivors. They'll never let you regress a gen a significant amount, because almost every time you contest the gen it's already seconds from completion anyway. And even if the regression was decent, which it hasn't been since peak Pop, your chases are gonna take too long to use those perks. So just do what I do and run chase perks + Rancor. I could phrase it as, "I don't need gen defence. If you do you're bad." But in fact it's the opposite, where trying to humor gen defence after all these nerfs is gonna be the very thing that kills your chance of winning. Of course it helps you beat inefficient survivors, but you ideally want to beat good survivors as well. That's why there's kind of like 2 metas for killer: a casual meta using slowdown, and the real meta that's all or nothing chase/endgame. It's been this way for years.
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It's not "uncounterable." It's just guaranteed. Uncounterable would be like downing a survivor across the map after the last gen got done. Like in the case of Rancor, the part that's guaranteed is the survivor gets exposed, but it in no way guarantees the down. Survivors have actual uncounterable stuff, like the BT instaheal or Dead Hard which you have to "wait out," yet whether you swing or not they still get to the pallet and don't get downed. And no gen defence perks are meta anymore. Killers are living a pipe dream trying to make those perks work still, and I guess survivors just self-fulfilling prophecy themselves on how strong those perks are, like they do with Nurse, Skull Merchant, or any other thing that makes the match more difficult.
3-gen meta was never a threat to the game, and in fact it could have saved it. What? Survivors actually having to strategize as a team and have map awareness instead of just going for the first gen they see over and over? Yeah, maybe 3-genning should be strong. But now it can't be, because there's a gen kick limit, so whoever's complaining about the strat now is a joke. Actually, the strategy wasn't great before because there's no way the killer could focus on tunneling 1 out AND keep a 3-gen at the same time. That ideal scenario would always be something the survivors gave the killer for free. And yet, even as a 3v1 in a 3-gen the survivors still won the war of attrition. Literally push the 2 furthest apart gens, hold W when the killer's anywhere near, and they lose the race against time, because the gen regression is always slower than the progression. The teams who weren't capable of doing this should have lost anyway, 3-gen or no.
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I'm surprised as well. Gen defence has been fruitless for years.
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I reject this because, I'm hoping, at some point killers are gonna wake up and realize chase perks and endgame as far superior. They're still using gen defence because they've convinced themselves it's the only way. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Gen defence hasn't been good for years. I always scoffed at those people who said, "You don't need gen defence vs good teams. You can just beat them." But maybe what they meant is what I've realized, that something like Spirit Fury/Enduring plus Rancor and maybe an aura perk could, if nothing else, at least get you the draw vs good teams. I refuse to take that build off my killers because to me it's all that works, and you might see other killers follow suit.
My aura perks of choice, if I bring one, is Gearhead. It procks often enough to where you see survivors exactly when you need to: when they're on gens and on heals. If you have Rancor, you might not need it, but it can help in finding the person you need to tunnel. Tunneling 1 out, and then finding Rancor at the end is a draw. Alternatively you can tunnel 1 out, hook someone else at the end, and the Rancor can't come in so the last person has to hook trade. That's a draw still. But if they screw up at the end, you can turn a 2k into a 3k or even 4k. I'm tired of settling for draws, but this is the best we got right now. It's the only thing stopping the meta we all fear, which is having to go all-in on slugging.
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The scenarios you're describing don't happen. Nobody's getting mad that a single gen gets done or a survivor makes 1 window or pallet in chase. They're mad when 3 gens pop in the short first chase, or when a survivor can just wait at a loop and guarantee wasted time because the killer physically can't get reach them in under 30-45 seconds. The killers downing everybody with 4-5 gens up is baby-tier stuff. The survivors cannot be going down that fast if they're playing well. 95% of the killers who even find themselves in that position are just gonna start hooking, not bleeding out for no reason. There's toxic killers, of course, but they only get their way when facing survivors way below their caliber. Toxic survivors can toy with the killer and do whatever they want even when he's actually good at the game. That's the difference.
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Pop is horrible again, so you shouldn't worry about that.
But, try playing a few games as a killer and using ZERO gen defense perks, then try playing a few games with same killer but running 4 gen defense perks, and notice the difference in the types of games.
The zero gen defense games you are going to feel like you are pressured constantly, and can't have a single moment of rest because the gens just simply go too fast. And against an even slightly competent team, you will probably lose.
The games with 4 gen defense are far more relaxed and chill and you are able to take it slow and make more mistakes.
Generally the well balanced play is to have 2 perks for gen defense. And this is part of the problem of the game in general. The game is balanced around killers taking gen defense perks, but oh look, there are no non-dlc gen defense perks. Really, they should do to gen defense what they do for killer perks, nerf the perks, and buff the basekit. This would lead to far more variety and perks that killers would take from game to game.
Imagine instead a world where:
- Basekit gen kick is 10%
- Basekit regression is 200%
- Basekit corrupt on gens and totems that lasts 20-30 seconds that deactivates when a suvivor takes a health state (just enough so non mobility killers can physically cross the map to)
Then imagine that same world where:
- Call of brine is probably fine in this world
- Corrupt intervention is reworked or nerfed to add a little extra time to the basekit corrupt, upping it to say 60 seconds, or maybe it blocks all totems and gens for that 30 seconds, so maybe trapper or hag can spend a little more time setting things up.
- Deadlock is nerfed down to 15 seconds, or even reworked entirely
- Eruption is probably fine in this world, but if not the regression could be lowered
- Grim embrace is nerfed down to 8 seconds for each token and then the 4th is only 20 seconds, or even reworked completely.
- Pentimento is nerfed to 20% repair speeds, or maybe remove the repair speed penalty and make it do something else
- Hex ruin is probably fine in this world but it could be tweaked if not
- Merciless storm is probably fine in this world
- Oppression is probably fine in this world.
- Overcharge is probably fine in this world or could be reworked to not be as punishing to newer players
- pop can probably be reworked to just do like 5% of extra gen kick on a hook.
- Pain resonance could be reworked to be 10%, but maybe shows the survivors location now, so its more about finding the most worked on gen rather than regressing it.
- Surge is probably fine in this world but could be tweaked if needed
- Thanataphobia needs a rework for other reasons but is probably fine in this world
- Thrilling tremors is more of an information perk but is probably fine in this world
- Undone is probably fine in this world (but probably just needs a rework in general)
You get the idea, these are all just ideas for the perks, but in general, you nerf a bunch of the high power gen defense perks to be like half as effected as they are, the bad perks can probably stay bad, or you could even just rework all the gen defense perks, but now the basekit is stronger.
You'd start to see far more interesting and varied builds from killer to killer and playstyle to playstyle.
I would also suggest doing something similar on the survivor side, such as:
- Effectively make camping literally impossible, not just nerfed, but impossible to do
- Effectively make tunneling literally impossible to do
Then rework all the second chance/anti-tunnel/anti-camp perks to do something more interesting.
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Im sorry, but the 3 gen meta was brain dead, there was no strategizing at all. Survivors were invulnerable when far from your 3 gen, and you couldn't do anything about it. Likewise they also couldn't do anything about the gens because eruption LITERALLY FORCED THEM TO DO NOTHING. It got changed because it made high skill matches boring stalemates, and this affected the content creation part too, so literally no one benefited from it.
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The lame meta has been here for a while. Survivors are not meant to have fun in this game. What's considered fun? For some, having 3-4 people escape. Let's be real, that doesn't happen often. Maybe looping the killer for a while? Nah, here are a bunch of anti-loop killers, because long chases aren't fun for killers. Fine, let's just screw around with flashlights or saboing. You won't win, but it's fun. Nope, nope, nope. That's toxic, and killers don't like it.
I also love to see killers complain about survivors hiding when it's down to 2 and then they either slug or bodyblock the survivor they do find....which is it? Stalling the game is toxic or only when it's not you doing it?
Wake up BHVR, you're letting 20% of your community destroy your game.
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thats good to know and terrifying
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The funny thing is, that those who were running those perks complained about the latest nerfs and said that those perks are useless. So why do we have the exact same perk builds as pre-nerf? And imagine, there were times when killer had no bunch of regression perks and still were able to win their games consistently. Why isnt it possible for killer nowadays, though everything for surivors from the past got nerfed into oblivion?
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I'm sorry but you kind of lost me when you said "tunnel one person out and then use Rancor". I don't always wanna use Rancor on everyone, and I don't want to tunnel on everyone if I don't need to. I'd much rather, and I think most Killer players are the same, just run at least some gen defense enough to give me time to use my power as designed than simply tunnel and rely on Rancor for a draw.
And yes, against a good enough team? Some gen defense on most killers, is vital. It's not the only way to run the Killers, I agree with you. But it's crucial against any team that has any amount of coordination at all. Not everyone Mains Blight and Nurse.
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Most people play both Killer and Survivor. Killer players are not "20% of the community", nor are Killer Mains that low a percentage. All told the Killer community, alongside the Survivor community, is probably more like 75% of the community, with only about 25% of people maining SOLELY one side or the other. So please stop catastrophizing about the state of Survivor, we're not losing Survivor players nor are we bleeding players from the game - any data will show the downward trend is probably because there's no events, modes, or modifiers on right now and because 2v8 just left, too.
Survivor is in a healthy, balanced state right now and actually fine, I still survive the average 40% of the time and I'm sure if you look at your stats, so do you. This is because the game is not at its core designed around 3-4 people escaping often, nor should it be. It's designed around 1-2 people escaping. That's the whole point, this is Survival Horror, surviving is supposed to be hard. Survivor is intended to have stakes. You're not supposed to win your rounds as a 3-4 man out very often. The Killer is intended to get at least 1 kill, not 0ks, if you're really basing your fun as Survivor on escapes at all you're possibly sweating a little too hard, man.Killers are allowed to have anti-frustration features. If certain things are an issue, maybe it's okay to have things that counter that issue for people who want them? The game isn't dying and Survivor isn't broken just because you can't slap on a set of perks and easily win against much of the roster on big massive maps with tons of pallets anymore.
It's okay to lose a bunch as Survivor, it's also okay to lose a bunch as Killer. This game is not about winning and the infestation of us vs. them has only created that exact need to win that for somehow, so friggin' many people are obsessed with having to show skill. You're allowed to have fun and not win. Losing does not make you less skilled. You can pip just fine as Survivor even if you lose, it means nothing. And the same is true of Killer.
It's okay to lose 60% of your rounds. You're allowed to fail. EVERYONE HERE is allowed to fail. You're not racing for some sort of prize, you can have fun not winning, It's OK. It's OK to lose. You have my permission.
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Yeah… this isn't what is happening. This isn't the meta. People are not doing this near as frequently as you think they are.
Baby Killers do this. Baby Killers who don't know better and learned it on weak Survivors who were also baby, so they apply the slug hammer to everything and end up getting destroyed when the Survivors know better enough to counter it.
Toxic Killers also do this. I see Billies, Nurses, Slingers, and Doctors do this a lot. I also occasionally have seen Trappers do this. It's usually the super strong ones who can get away with it, or the super weak ones who just are angry they didn't get Kills.
If you are encountering this as frequently as you say, and Killers really are raging at you in this manner, you are probably in the MMR range where Killers are new and don't realize any better (and Survivors on your team are bad enough to have this be a thing) throwing a temper tantrum when they start to lose, or you're dealing with actual toxicity which is more common in low to mid-low MMR as baby Killers start to get good and become high on their own power.. In either case, if you are actually a decent Surv sick of this, you probably are in the wrong MMR.
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Not sure what you're basing your predictions on OP but I think hex totem builds Ruin/Plaything/Penti will get more traction especially with the two upcoming hex perks from the Dracula patch.
Pain Res will still be staple but pop isn't such a solid pick anymore when Ruin/Oppression exists.
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Do we want instachase meta or long generators or regression meta? personally regression meta seems most healthiest of all those balancing
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Great suggestions :) as a survivor main, I don’t have any issue with the ideas with a few refinements etc but it’s worth testing in a ptb to identify what those may be
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My aura perks of choice, if I bring one, is Gearhead. It procks often enough to where you see survivors exactly when you need to: when they're on gens and on healsgearhead is not working on healing skillchecks, only gen skill checks. Also, survivors can avoid it by hitting great skillchecks
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Idk, I find a lot of success running Coup or PWYF+Nemesis, and Oppression lately
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the best that dbd is giving you is 2.5% regression. After that we got another 2.5%. Looking at track record, you'll get a another 2.5% at best.
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I doubt they'll do anything at this point, but if the game is balanced around killers taking slowdown they need to offer slowdown perks without buying DLC, or more preferably, they need to just build it into the basekit instead and nerf or rework the perks.
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Its not a new meta, but each new gen regression meta gets more and more boring, because there is no limit on them. You have some killers using 4 perks, with some perks overriding the 8 damage limit (like pain res, it will damage the most progressed gen even if that gen has been damaged 8 times already).
They have quite significantly combatted the hold W for survivors by adding more obstacles, decreasing looping tile density and buffing chase. But survivors having to sit on any gens longer and longer gets boring, especially when tunnelling out a survivor massively slows down the game and that has been a significant problem since 2022.
I never said gen defense should be gone, just like I would never say exhaustion should be gone. I am just saying to buff the individual gen damaging perks but make them exclusive to each other. Right now if survivors have a 98% gen and someone goes down thanks to Surge, just doing what they needed to do, now its a 90% gen, then the killer gets to hook them on a scourge nearby for another 20%, another thing they needed to do, but also get Pop for another 15-20%. So that 98% gen that was already quite a chore with current times, now has been reduced to 55% while the killer did nothing special other than just filling a slot. And as a 4th perk just use Grim Embrace so they cant repair the gen for a while, again doing nothing special.
Imagine if all survivor gen related perks would apply it to nearby gens when they are in chase, or stun the killer with a pallet, block nearby hooks if they open a chest.
And yes, killer time is more valuable than survivor time, but 3 perks working in a row like that without the damage being exclusive is an issue. It's boring, it makes people not want to do any gens whenever you hook and just hide. Hence the post.0 -
Pop got kicked out of meta, it's now solid A-tier on high mobility killers that can afford to PainRes + Pop gens across the map, while it's now B tier at best on rest of the killers, and definitely not your gen protection option for M1 killers lol.
Gen regression meta in general now is not even nearly strong as it used to be, but it's still meta because gens im general are still the main problem for killers across all skill ranges.
And honestly, gen regression meta is definitely nearly as lame as people try to present it, you definitely don't want things like Endfury to become true meta again
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Oh, Endfury meta was fun. Its also counterable by predropping strong pallets if you're in trouble, which means less pallet density since survivors throw more pallets. Then its more a game between if the killer is faster in creating massive deadzones or the survivors being able to avoid creating deadzones while finishing gens asap.
And honestly, the most "fun" killer meta was the short lived M&A+Infectious Fright meta.0 -
allow the low mobility killers to run multiple gen slowdown perks, but force mobile ones to only have one or two “gen perk slots”.
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Slowdown Perks are more boring me to play as as Killer than they are to face as Survivor. All that happens when I stack slowdown is that I roll over average teams I could've had a chill match against, or I lose instantly to sweatlord tryhard Survivors anyway and the slowdowns don't do anything. So it's just "win more" against average teams or "lose anyway" to the skilled teams. Completely meaningless and boring. Having a match be over in 5 seconds or dragging out unwinnable matches for 30 minutes feels like garbage, even if I win anyway I never enjoy winning using slowdown. Absolutely boring. All slowdown and gen rush Perks and items should be removed from the game entirely so that gen speeds are consistent and standardized and we balance around other things. Slowdown is so mind numbingly dull.
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Doesn't really work. For example Wraith would be considered high mobility, but he is not really that good.
You can't really do it by kill rate either, because those killers don't have high average kill rate.
Nurse technically is not even high mobility killer...
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Don't worry about it the zombies broke and it barely ######### works.
I love this game.
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When Ruin and Pop was a thing, people complained a lot too. Survivors main objective is gens and killers main objective is stopping the gens from progressing, they need to slow the gens down as much as they can. It's a game core "problem", gens are already boring to do so anything that slows them makes people complain but killers need to be able to affect gens too.
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just change gens bhvr no one likes them
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