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Make pigs traps not require a gen to be completed
they already can get the trap off in one search do this and pig immediately becomes an actual rewarding killer it’s not lore like at all for people to be able to freely run around in traps it looks ridiculous this would also make her iri useful.
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I mean its just a massive pig buff which unless you did some extreme nerfs would just be more unfun and lead to very boring gameplay
Pair it with 3-4 scream perks and you will end up seeing some start of match cheese where the pig brings something like
Small map offering (probably midwich), Video tape, Crate of gears, Hex Face the darkness, Infectious fright, Ultimate Weapon, Lethal pursuer
You put a big gamble on the start of the match and if you lose you are a moderately average m1 killer for the rest of the match and bought a ton of free time or even a kill but if you win you win in 2 minutes and 30 seconds. Its not fun, its not very fair, it abuses interactions that should be fixed and probably should have been fixed years ago.
On top of that endgame is just gg ez. Put a trap on the survivor even if all gens are done they can't escape except through the hatch. Basically an extra free kill or two even if the survivors manage a save.
It doesn't play nice match to match, it doesn't play nice in an all out combo, this change just wouldn't play nice in dbd and shouldn't be implemented
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I completely agree but I just don’t like the run around and do different things with traps on they should manually start without a gen completing maybe like how plagues infection is.
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Thats Not the Problem. The Problem is that you need More traps. The survivor musst beginn with a Trap on the head ,2 of them IS the best way? And you have the Rest of the traps for the late and mid game
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As a Pig main with a 75% kill rate, I say no.
While getting head pops is fun, that's not entirely the purpose of her power. The purpose is to give survivors something else to do other than generators. Every second they are running around trying to get their traps off before it activates is time that survivor is not on a generator. Plus, even more so survivors have to make a choice. If they know their friends have inactive traps, are they going to wait until their friend gets their trap off, or risk activating it, them being unable to get it off in time before it pops?11 -
I like head pops being rare, it gives the traps a solidly a unique role as a slowdown ability and makes those kills you do get with them all the more satisfying.
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it is not abusing if it is in the game. they could easily fix interaction by making that boxes keep their progression after being interrupted with linger time like 15 seconds then progress decays if player doesn't finish search but they have not done that.
that means that scream builds are intended for pig. They got nerfed awhile back with ultimate weapon and box aura changes.
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Fair point, screams are intended, though I would be against the idea of making this scream build the strongest build upon her, which I'd be worried would be one the case with this change.
The part of Amanda's design I like most is she is naturally encouraged to not tunnel a survivor out. Many killers can and do tunnel, whereas Pig's whole game is about trying to maintain a 3vs1 to apply pressure.
Regarding the OP:
I actually think it reduces her slowdown potential as there is no reason not to just pop gens as fast as possible, and see who gets their trap off. It encourages nastier playstyles with scream perks or crawl tunneling, since survivors can't really afford to stop and try and heal ever, so RBT tunnel Pig is actually more viable. She'd be stronger, but disliked.
It also brings back end game Pig, where she can put survivors in lose/lose situations by activating traps after the gates have opened. 2 survivors with traps and EGC going? 1 survivor with a headtrap and the hatch closed? With Scream perks? Basically guaranteed dead. I think it makes her stronger for sure, but it makes her more obnoxious to play against.
I personally think her head traps also becomes more 1 dimensional. I don't play like this, but if a trap isn't active, you probably should tunnel cause you shouldn't allow the survivor to get a head start on their searches. Not having that potential 4 box trap reduces your pressure significantly.... if they just activate immediately, then we lose that interaction where we're trying to beat the gen to the punch/can deliberately decide to let a gen go to activate the traps, and I would miss that...
Though I suppose there is decision making for "do I use this trap now, or do I save the trap for when gates are powered?"
More headtraps would be fun... though you'd definitely need a reshuffle of the power of RBTs.
Having 4 traps and 1 survivor trapped with a 5th trap at the start would reduce her reliance on her first chase going well... though I can see "haven't earned that head trap" arguments, and ofc soloQ already has trouble with Pig... so tough to say how that'd be received.
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how about non hat survivors scream periodically while someone has a hat on? This will provide some natural slowdown for those in gens while the hat bearer searches for an unhat station?
This will mean the person with the hat doesn’t need changes that make it oppressive for them whereas the real purpose of the hat is to provide pressure on a macro level (which the screams > chase) can provide for those sitting on gens?
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I disagree. pig's power in fact encourages tunneling survivors with a trap. Pig power was not originally meant for mori purposes in my opinion. it was meant to slowdown game and create weak links in the team to ambush at pig box ambush points with her stealth.
it is just that player saw consistency in mori'ing survivors with her reverse bear traps and since her m1 game and anti-loop power were a total joke, her most accepted play-style was to mori survivors with the traps by soft-proxy camping boxes. the soft proxy camping of the boxes became even stronger when new scream perks were added to the game. you knew that one of your traps had to be 4-reverse bear trap search with new 12 search system, so as long you got 4 reverse bear traps on, you simply waited on the two closest boxes nearly guaranteed a mori as long survivor recklessly rushed generators which is common for like 99% of teams.
@radiantHero23 showcased for how easy it is to do against an above average comp team on garden of joy, no less which is fairely survivor sided.
I would be against the idea of making this scream build the strongest build upon her
Her strongest build was never scream build. it was stacking 4 gen defence perks and soft camping boxes. Scream build was a build to encourage a more active play-style for her mori. It encouraged chasing survivors and pressuring them, then at precise moment, activating a scream perk to interrupt them for the mori kill.
From personal stand-point, i don't like pig's mori because I think the mori traps are rigged in pig's favor. there is not healthy interaction between survivor preventing the mori and mori being successful. It is mostly on pig's skill level for whether the mori works or not. the new change that hides aura from boxes hides away the problem because it makes harder for pig to exploit the rigged traps but those traps are still rigged. in my personal opinion, i think pig's reverse bear traps need rework where they have same consistency to mori but the survivor has more counter-play in preventing their effectiveness. right now the reverse bear traps are like automatic free value in term of game-delay and the mori when you get mori as survivor is perceived as cheap kill. I highly doubt that any survivor that get head-pop goes like, "well played pig". the response is more like, "Nothing I could done to change outcome".
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I WAS SUMMONED!
Have to disagree however. The match you point out was not against a full comp team. It was against knightlight who played with some of his viewers. The only thing this match showcased is how a few mistakes can cost a team the match if the right rng is in play. I had 1-3-4-4. They didnt play around it. Simple as that. I did not tunnel a survivor with the intent to win the game. I tunneled the survivor in thew first place because I thought the game was over and I wanted to get at least one kill. When I realized what Rng I had, I played around that and tried to make the players with traps waste as much time as possible. THIS is powerful. You seem to have misunderstood the match.
Tunneling as pig is bad and is almost never the optimal playstyle. Spreading traps as fast as possible is in most cases the better play due to the game being slowed down more. If you tunnel one survivor and the others are unoccupied, they will just push through gens while you get youor one kill. Maybe 2 in end game.
Shes a great camper though. Hoook trading to dish out traps is extremely viable. Sadly.
Best build on Pig is something like this:
- corrupt, lethal, surge and stbfl with jigsaw sketch and crate of gears on midwich.
One of the best builds on her if someone wants to learn boxes and survivor movement is:
- lethal, bbq, surge and stbfl
If you find it cheap or not is your opinion. I personally like the strategic aspect of the pig. Its what makes her unique. Her power lies less in mechanical skill but in strategic skill expression. I personally dont care if a survivor applauds me for my gameplay.
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Tunneling as pig is bad and is almost never the optimal playstyle. Spreading traps as fast as possible is in most cases the better play due to the game being slowed down more. If you tunnel one survivor and the others are unoccupied, they will just push through gens while you get youor one kill. Maybe 2 in end game.
Not what i said. I did not say tunneling is most optimal play-style. I said that her reverse bear traps encourages tunneling to be more effective. In other words, it enables tunneling to be more powerful. Slugging and hook trading is how you spread your traps as pig. Tunneling is how you capitalize off your traps. your suppose to ambush survivors that search boxes and those survivor tend to be survivors closer to death hook. The other way to use your traps is the mori.
If you find it cheap or not is your opinion. I personally like the strategic aspect of the pig. Its what makes her unique. Her power lies less in mechanical skill but in strategic skill expression. I personally dont care if a survivor applauds me for my gameplay.
notice that i am talking from perceptive of the survivor. I do not think there are many survivor main that enjoys being outskilled by pig's reverse bear trap mori. it is easily one of the most infuriating ways to die as survivor. Pig's traps are not fun for survivor. they might be fun for you as killer but they're not interactive for survivor.
I had 1-3-4-4. They didnt play around it. Simple as that
you can't play around it. that is my issue with pig. you can only minimize losses.
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I'm imagining what would happen in the average solo queue match if all traps activated immediately and you were running Video Tape. I'm guessing at least one survivor would die from a trap before anyone touched a gen.
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I would love if they buffed traps, but this will probably never happen. :(
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Ok I mean that's clearly the opinion part but your definition forgets that exploits exist aka technically in the game but not allowed. It should just lock in progress no point in not seeing how even if it does the average search time is still 36s + Travel time and it removes an unfun playstyle aka kills with very low interaction on the survivor side.
Removing auras only slightly weakens it because you can still learn box layouts and remember box locations that you have seen / passed by so mid match to patrol them once traps start activating nothing stops you from bringing a small map throwing on a build like that and trying to pop heads especially with a change like above which has near perfect synergy with trying to manage it at the start of a match.
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Of course you can play around your rng. What are you on about?
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Not what i said. I did not say tunneling is most optimal play-style. I said that her reverse bear traps encourages tunneling to be more effective. In other words, it enables tunneling to be more powerful.
Trying to understand your point, but I have to say I'm a little lost, not necessity debunking your point, just struggling to understand it. I watched numerous Pig guides while learning her, and tunneling headtrapped survivors is something commonly not recommended anywhere. It is also not particularly effective in my experience. If you're going after survivors who are doing their head traps, you're not making use of the slowdown those head traps give you to keep survivors off gens. This means that tunneling is less effective not more?
The scenario you want as Pig is to identify the headtrap pattern, and then apply pressure around that pattern. Sometimes the way to get that pressure might be tunneling, sure but its not a defacto rule in my experience. Ideally you always want a trap active at all times, you always want another trap lined up, and you want pressure so that survivors can't take the time to heal, do gens, make hooks saves, and search boxes; you want them to yield on something. It is possible with Pig to force the dead on hook player to be the spare player who has to make the risky save, pushing them into your arms? Is this the tunneling you mean?
Anyway this right time to apply pressure is why when 30s added to her RBT timer was proposed in the PTB, us Pig mains fought back hard, because that extra time removes this ability to apply pressure at the right time...
showcased for how easy it is to do against an above average comp team on garden of joy, no less which is fairely survivor sided.
In radiant's game, there was a player (Kate I think) doing headtraps on the 1,3,4,4 pattern, a player (David) on hook, a player (I dunno Zarina?) slugged under pallet and Nightlite trying to save the slugged player. Radiant knew in this scenario time is on his side, not the survivors side. By trying to save the slug, NL made it so the Kate had to let David go to second stage, or work on their trap. They chose the former (not realising the 1344 pattern), and that ultimately cost them too much time and killed them. This is what gave radiant the pressure needed to close out the game. (This was my observation/conclusion independently while I was watching the game, which I then discussed with radiant afterwards to learn off the master himself 😁. I was quite pleased when Radiant confirmed he had the same thought process himself in the game. 😄 )
notice that i am talking from perceptive of the survivor. I do not think there are many survivor main that enjoys being outskilled by pig's reverse bear trap mori. it is easily one of the most infuriating ways to die as survivor. Pig's traps are not fun for survivor.
You are right, survivor mains don't like it, but I believe that is because they don't respect the head traps, and see it purely as rng, and ignore the pattern, which I can't blame them, it's something you only really focus on if you play Pig regularly.
When I play survivor I pay attention to the time taken for my teammates to remove traps, the same way I pay attention as the Pig herself. If it is quick, I know that we're in a potential 1344 or 2244 pattern. These points are good habits in general, but are especially important in these kinds of scenarios: -
- If I can afford to, I 99 gens as long as I can to give the headtrapped survivor a head start.
- If I'm in chase, I might be a little more liberal with pallet use to try and ensure a gen is completed before I get a trap on my head.
- If headtrapped myself I don't take the time to heal or go for risky unhooks/gen completions in these scenarios, as I know time is not on my side. I may even deliberately give up a hook stage from chase in the corner of the map instead of wasting time trying to sneak it.
- I prioritise boxes in areas with already completed generators so that a Pig who does pressure me is getting the least value possible from doing so.
The macro around Pig headtraps is quite engaging as survivor to my mind, as long as you respect it, and don't think of it as just RNG bullshit.
What you need to remember is a good Pig will be watching for good headtrap patterns, and if the Pig identifies a good pattern, you need to account for it and react accordingly.
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It is possible with Pig to force the dead on hook player to be the spare player who has to make the risky save, pushing them into your arms? Is this the tunneling you mean?
no. let me draw scenario for you.
The match begins, you down first survivor. 2 generator pop. This survivor has a head trap with 3 searches. You down survivor Player #2. You put a reverse bear trap on them, You hook them.
You notice that survivor #1 still has not removed his traps and is injured. you understand boxes positions and you ambush the survivor who is on his 3rd search. You down him. Hook him. you proxy camp the hook. Survivor #2 takes off the trap(He had 2 trap search). Survivor #3 hook trades, you put reverse bear trap on survivor #3. Now you tunnel the survivor #1, 2 generator are poped and you kill survivor #1.
The reverse bear traps enable you to keep survivor #2 and survivor #3 busy(Slowdown) and allowed you to skip 1 hook-state from survivor #1 while also forcing a tunnel off hook.
The macro around Pig headtraps is quite engaging as survivor to my mind, as long as you respect it, and don't think of it as just RNG bullshit.
In term of the mori, it is rng ****** for survivor. you have no control over pig reverse bear trap ability. it is why some survivor players like @bjorksnas want the ability deleted which isn't exactly fair for the killer but i digress.
I am aware. as i said, it only hides away the problem making it less common since the more casual pigs will not be able to utilize her kit to full potencial.
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Then end game would be just a free kill because all pig would have to do is proxy hook and just not let the survivor touch a box.
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A true Pig-warrior! Have a BOOP🐽
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You notice that survivor #1 still has not removed his traps and is injured. you understand boxes positions and you ambush the survivor who is on his 3rd search. You down him. Hook him. you proxy camp the hook.
OK, that scenario is possible, but it's a gamble for the Pig, and is entirely dependent on the success of your chases, the map and successfully predicting the location of the head trapped survivor. Tunneling is an advantage in this scenario if you can do it sure, but it certainly not a rule that this is always your best course of action.
You don't know exactly where that survivor is unless you take perks to find them, and your traversal time is not insignificant... and you don't have time to be wrong… You can try to intuit/guess where they are, but you are Pig, not Blight, you have low map mobility, especially if you're relying on ambush/crouch to catch the survivor unaware. Every second counts on Pig, and it requires time investment from you to find that survivor. If you do then find them, you then have to catch them quickly to exert the pressure you describe, but you're not that strong in chase, a decent tile can cost a lot of time, and youre now wasting time on a paused trap timer and letting gens go by. This also doesn't account for the fact the survivor can easily have OTR or Decisive Strike, which isn't disabled by Jigsaw boxes, or perks like Dead Hard... all of these perks are devastating for Pig, as she pauses the timer on chase and can lose a crap tonne of distance. It's a dangerous gamble to play this way.
I would also argue Survivors can also consider taking the time to heal on the first unhook, because the Pig cannot commit to pushing you off boxes yet, as she doesn't know her pattern. This is especially true with perk like We'll Make It or Resurgence in play, and I'd even consider using a medkit with a syringe that can make being injured a non issue... You could have 1 or 4 searches, so to invest in stopping you getting searches is also a huge gamble for the Pig that can easily backfire and have any pressure she might have had completely erased.
In term of the mori, it is rng ****** for survivor. you have no control over pig reverse bear trap ability.
I mean... yes the ability is RNG... but it's predictable RNG, and the survivor side has more information than the Pig herself does, cause the Pig has to guess how many searches have gone by, whereas survivors can actually count for real off the HUD, and known exactly how many searches have been done.
Again your team can 99 gens to give even just 15s for you to get a heal in/get a headstart... there's plenty of things survivors can do Vs. Pig Traps... if noone does them, that's not really a problem with the Pig's design, but again, more a lack of respect for Pig traps on the Survivor side.
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I mean... yes the ability is RNG... but it's predictable RNG, and the survivor side has more information than the Pig herself does, cause the Pig has to guess how many searches have gone by, whereas survivors can actually count for real off the HUD, and known exactly how many searches have been done.
when your experienced as killer as much as i am, I can tell how much time each interaction takes and even predict the time when a generator will pop.
If you do then find them, you then have to catch them quickly to exert the pressure you describe, but you're not that in strong chase, a decent tile can cost a lot of tine, and youre now wasting time on a paused trap timer and letting gens go by.
what. there is no chase, the survivor hears roar and goes down. Only dead hard saves that survivor in that instance and OTR if no gen was touched.
I would also argue Survivors can also consider taking the time to heal on the first unhook, because the Pig cannot commit to pushing you off boxes yet, as she doesn't know her pattern.
if the survivor heals, you can mori them. that's like free extra box search. very dangerous if a trap is active and your trap is 3 or 4.
You could have 1 or 4 searches, so to invest in stopping you getting searches is also a huge gamble for the Pig that can easily backfire and have any pressure she might have had completely erased.
A little trick to using trap is always attempt to interrupt 3rd search because if 3rd search is interrupted but no down, a 4 box key can lead to mori from a previous interupt. but say the key is 2 searches then you can deduce that the survivor went to the box and then went to nearest generator from the box search that finished. 1 box searches often means that you can prepare for future head traps to be more proxy camp oriented for the mori similar to what @radiantHero23 does in his game. adaptation to how your reverse traps roll is an important skill for pig. it is not so much of gamble when you know what your doing with said traps.
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I have no doubt you are more experienced than me... but that must surely mean you play against some high skilled survivors yes?
I've had games where it can be very hard to put Survivors down efficiently. Like sure if I play vs. a team weaker than me I can probably tunnel perfectly fine... I can catch a survivor not paying attention on a box sure... but Vs. a strong set of survivors, they see me coming miles away, and tunneling a head trapped survivor makes me just a crapper version of Ghost Face does it not?
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vs swf, stealth doesn't work as well. ambush play-styles are weaker so mori gameplay has greater emphasis. gf has atrocious chase, pig has more control in the chase but is very loopable still.
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Stealth work pretty well with somne aura perks and joohns medical file. This addon alone makes her stealth really vaible. I mean, of course, if you get sent to cooldwind against a strong 4man. Yes. Stealth will not work that much. Mori gameplay is rarely THE way to go. It always depends on the rng you get. This for the most part regulates the way you play out your match. If you get lethal rng like 1-3-4-4. Then its mori time. If you get something like 3-3-3-3 or 2-3-3-4 then thats more oriented towards slowdown.
I honestly enjoy the matches with slowdown a bit more because I genuinely like my matches going on for a bit longer than 6 min. Lethal rng usually makes the game faster and more stressfull, because I have to concentrate on a lot more factors.
To conclude. We are talking about a c tier killer here. Shes not this amazing killing machine. However, Amanda can definitely shine in situations, where other killers struggle a lot harder.
edit: did you not just say a few posts ago, that you cant play around your rng? Did I miss something?
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there can be ways devs fix this by not letting the timer go up when in a certain range of the killer.
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I highly doubt it will actually affects kill rates or anything that much, the amount of times wasted by searching is no different whether it pops early or late, and anything that can be done with this change can be done right now anyway
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Survivor should just not be able to see box aura before activation basekit(rule set number2).
Also box only takes 12sec and sometimes they are aside a gen so it doesnt even slow down
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I feel there should be a passive timer that slowly makes it active, and hook stages help increase it and a generator makes it immediateluy become active, a whole killer power dependant on the surviviors input is stupid and only effective against low to mid mmr soloq
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spot on
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