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When is slugging NOT seen as toxic?
Saw this clip while scrolling and the comments section was divided. Thoughts?
Comments
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Depends on the situation tbh. If you start slugging at 5 gens while bringing Thanatophobia, Knock Out, etc and proceed to let everyone bleed out and not bother hooking them then yeah you're being a dickhead. Only that specific scenario is it most definitely toxic
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I'm of the mind there is only one situation where slugging is Toxic and that's slugging someone and bleeding them out when there is no reason for you to do so (namely the last survivor at the end of the game).
It's not very nice and is super boring to slug at 5 gen or whatnot but as long as your goal is attempting to win the match, I don't think it should qualify as toxic.
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Slugging is not toxic when you use it as a way to win like Hens did in this video or when you use it as a way of pressure the survivors. Sometimes I slug a survivor to not waste my time with hooking because I don't want lose track of a more important target or when I know what I can get more by slugging. If players complain about this then they look for a reason why they lose that is not their skill. It is easier to blame the other side instead of admitting that the other one played better and you not. There is also Slugging builds which are okay because they are part of the game and a way to win but this is rather an unhealthy and not toxic part - the developers can fix this by changing game elements.
Slugging is toxic when you do it to give the other side a bad feeling like bleeding them out for four minutes and look at them just because you can. You might know which situations I mean. This slugging is not for your gameplay or way to win, this slugging is for you personal feeling to feel better when the others feel bad.
This is my opinion about what is toxic and what is not toxic when it comes to slugging.
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I'd say slugging with the express purpose of bleeding them out comes closest to being "toxic". Especially when, even after everyone's down, no effort is made to hook. Like, cmon man, you're wasting everyone's time here.
Slugging for the 4k is annoying, but somewhere I can at least understand it.
In itself, I find slugging generally inoffensive.
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in endgame i'd say. even the most opinionated survivor players shouldn't see this as toxic.
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I'd say it's okay if you're losing the game and wanna put some pressure
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The fundamental issue with slugging is that it's a selfish action in which you choose to make the experience for the other team worse in order to achieve victory.
While slugged you cannot progress the game nor leave the game. Your only action is to sit and do nothing while waiting for somebody else to choose to act. It will always be a negative experience. Which is important to note because there can be fun and joy in losing, but not getting slugged.
So we have the debate of if and when it's okay to take selfish actions that make the game experience worse for others in order to win. Some people will try to sidestep this question with answers like "it's a valid strategy" or "I don't have to care about your fun." However this is never used consistently. For example a survivor could run Distortion, Left Behind, Urban Evasion, Iron Will, and a hatch key and spend the entire match hiding until their team opens the gates or dies. This isn't against the rules, and valid strategy/not caring does apply. Yet somehow the community doesn't use these arguments and instead argues acting like this is shameful and should be discouraged.
Actions like slugging will always be toxic no matter the justification the slugger uses. Though let's keep in mind that toxic is not the same as bad manners nor the same aa game ruining.
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IMO it is only toxic if it would be save to hook the Survivor instead and slugging is only done out of spite. E.g. I dont think it is toxic if the Survivor crawled under a Pallet (Power Struggle) or if there is no Hook nearby (which does not really happen). But I have had situations where I even crawled under the Hook and did not get picked up.
Slugging like in this video is not toxic. Not necessary, because the Killer probably would have won the game anyway, but not toxic either.
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That's silly.
All those things you mentioned are in the game, and are DESIGNED that way. Is it fun? Nah, it's not. But that doesn't make that person a dickhead. Some people just have different playstyles. That's the issue with a game like DBD that has, in 8 years, never had a defined win condition.
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Nah, at this point someone is just playing to be annoying.
I also faced a Legion a few days ago who went for a slugging build, and they even said they are just doing that to make the game miserable for Survivors and they dont care about winning anymore.
And if such a person is not toxic, I dont know what is toxic.
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For me it's intent. If you purposely leave me on the ground to bleed out then I think that's bm. If you slug me and there are other survivors around and you have the opportunity to apply pressure, then whatever. That's being efficient. If you bring a slugging build then I'm lenient because perks like Knock Out make it clear what you're aiming for and the team should change tactics and play accordingly (can be hard in solo queue, that goes without saying). Had a GF with a slugging build yesterday and he only ended up with a 1k, having changed tactics halfway through the game when it was clear it wasn't going to work but we had the upper hand by then.
The only one that really annoys me is the slugging for the 4k. You've won, hatch is meaningless, just duke it out with the last person and let me move onto the next game. When I get a killer who does this I just think to myself that he takes this game way too seriously and needs to touch grass.
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Losing is never fun in a video game.
Being 0-13 in LoL or DOTA is not fun.
Being on the losing team in a shooter isn't fun.
Losing matches in street fightert isn't fun.
Slugging is part of the game and is fine to make use of to win the game. People hate it because it's part of losing and the nature of the game.
Body blocking isn't Toxic and playing all meta perks isnt toxic. The community shames people for slugging and tunneling because they don't know how to deal with it, play around it or simply not good at the game. Do you ever see people at higher levels complain?0 -
It is toxic when you slug at 5 gens super hard and refuse to let people play then bleed them out for four minutes.
It's not toxic to do it to gain some pressure.
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In that scenario it's actually holding the game hostage so.....
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This is my own little list when it comes slugging, IMO of course.
- Slugging after a down if you see someone; like in the above clip: Perfectly fine even if it leads to a 4-man slug
- Slugging at EGC or 1-2 gens left to apply pressure: Perfectly fine
- Slugging because of a perk; DS, Power Struggle, etc.: Perfectly fine
- Slugging at 5 gens: Annoying but ok
- Slugging for the 4k: Annoying but ok
- Slugging one or the entire team to purposely watch them bleed out: Annoying and while technically ok by the rules, it does make the person a bit of an ass.
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It's always toxic - no exceptions. It's a cowardly tactic used by crap killers.
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Toxic list:
Definitely toxic - Just letting survivors bleed out for no reason. That's when all the survivors are down and you just let them bleed out. Equivalent to the survivors just standing at the exit gate tbagging, but worse because survivors have no possible way to speed it up.
Kind of toxic - Slugging for the 4k. Can be toxic because it just becomes a game of who is most willing to endure boredom. It's pretty easy as survivor to hide out the bleed out against the majority of killers and the downed survivor has no recourse.
Not toxic - Leaving a slug because you are going after another survivor or need to get to a gen is part of the game. This can lead to situations that aren't very fun, such as in the clip where Hens I presume had to just go around and pick up the survivors, but that's a game design issue and is on BHVR, not the players.
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I like how you avoided saying sitting on the ground for 4 minutes isnt fun
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I don't see why the concept of slugging would be toxic rather than the motives. It's just one of many ways to play the game. Obviously if you go out of your way to bleed everyone out that is toxic but as long as you're only doing it because it gives you the upper hand, it's not toxic at all. It's playing for the win. You are not obligated to consider your opponent's fun as long as you play by the rules.
What Hens did in this clip wasn't toxic. Because it lacked malice. He did that because he had the chance to win the game like this.
Whether or not the game design that allows for this to happen is good or bad is a different discussion entirely.
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I had a game with a sabo squad recently. I understood what they were going for when they basically run into me and started following me once I downed and picked up one of them. So, I just started slugging. They weren't going to let me hook someone anyways, they entered the game with an intention to make the trial frustrating af for me, so there was no other alternative.
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So you are saying killers should hold up downed survivor that are right under the pallet every single time even when there are other survivors nearby or that survivor runs Power Struggle?
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I take it the other way. The only times slugging IS toxic, is either to watch survivors bleed out when you have every opportunity to hook them, or perhaps when you're down to the last 2 survivors and you slug one to search for the other without triggering the hatch.
Although the latter can have caveats if you need a 4K for a challenge, providing you're not spending ages searching for a stealthy survivor while the slug literally dies on the floor. At some point you just need to hook and take your chances.
Every other instance of slugging is fine. If there are multiple survivors in the game capable of picking up that slug, then it's fair game.
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For me, survivors bring it on themselves. If they are going for flashlight saves or they crawl to a pallet or they bring boil over or body block or sabotage hooks or something they are getting slugged. What am I supposed to do go for pick up knowing they will be set free? I understand why survivors try to stop the killer from getting the hooks, I don't complain, I just deal with it by slugging. If that's toxic of me then fine I'm a toxic killer for not being stupid enough to go for for pick up when there is someone with a flashlight waiting next to me.
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only time slugging is toxic is when a survivor is downed and he is a last survivor (as in literally everyone else is "dead", not downed or hooked), anything else will be considered "strategical" as there is still a benefit in doing so
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imho only toxic kind of slugging is intentionally bleeding survivor(s) out, unless we are talking about sabo + Boil Over abusers
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No it's not. I think that should be obvious. Neither is being on the hook. Funny thing is that your friends can find you either way.
If slugging or tunneling is toxic then body blocking in any situation should be as well and should honestly be considered exploitation of game mechanics.1
