Solo Queue is such an incredible nightmare
Im not often playing survivor, mainly because I have very long queue times for surv, when i get home after work. But since I am on holiday this week I thought, I could try to play some more survivor and work on my skillset a bit. Since all my other buddies are either not playing anymore or have to work, I had to go in solo and Oh boiiii was ist an experience.
Almost every game is just the same thing:
- You get found by killer, you get chased by killer.
- You do pretty well in chase, cause you play a lot of killer and therefor know what is possible and how to run as survivor.
- Killer downs you, most of the time a couple of gens are done.
- Killer gets mad at you cause you screwed up their game. Had for example a Ghostface just stand in front of my hook, hitting me and teabagging me for like 30 seconds, anticamp almost kicked in
- I get unhooked, healed up, we do the last gen, while killer chases someone else for a short time
- Exit gates are powered
- Oh No Noed
- Other survivor goes down, I find the totem and break it, also unhook the survivor
- Killer chases us on way to exit gate, I block for other survivor, now killer goes for me
- I run killer during endgame collapse while my team heals up
- I get downed and I get hooked
- My team instaleaves while there is still 80% of the endgame collapse bar left.
- I get some cool message in chat when I point out, that I really find this unfair like: "We all have good games and then don't make it out", "Shouldnt have gotten downed during endgame collapse I guess" or "Well normally I would have gone for unhooking you, but like I decided not to tryhard anymore"
And then the same thing more or less happens the next game. So many survivors in Solo queue just instaleave as soon as the gates are powered and dont even try to teamplay, even though some games they literary get hardcarried by someone else.
Comments
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yeah, too many variables outside of your control that end up deciding your match and experience, the most important being what potatoes you get queued up with
I still struggle to leave when gates are powered cause I don't like being left behind myself so I want to save but when it's me on hook I end up getting left and told I should have played better. Meanwhile you bought them all the time in the world to finish gens lol
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Yeah… DBD has become 'SWF or perish" in some ways. There's very little joy in Solo'Q atm.
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It's 1v1v1v1v1 in soloq, didn't you know?
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Unfortunately this is what happens when everything changed to make SoloQ better just accidentally powers up SWF more.
You get a version of DBD where the Devs frankly HAVE TO start balancing around SWF… because teamwork, good coordinated teamwork, then becomes much too powerful against most Killers.
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It’s too powerful against killers yet a 4-man swf occurs 4% of every match and has on average a 40% escape rate. Meaning killers still win more against 4-man SWFs than 4-man SWFs win against killers.
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At the highest levels of play SWFs are approaching a 50% winrate.
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They’re at 48%. Which means killers are at 52%. Which means killers at the tippy top of MMR are still winning more than survivors at the tippy top of MMR.
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Not to mention that is exclusively a 4 man swf at the top 5% MMR. So about 0.5% of players, at best.
The other 99.5% of players are all drastically lower at 43% escape rate max.
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Yup and BHVR and honestly the playerbase as well, are doing everything they can to make it worse. Lobby changes are just another colossal failure in the wrong direction.
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Right. I just tried to throw him a bone.
The problem with the person I quoted and killer mains like him is that they’re average or below in terms of skill but they watch Otzdarva and LilithsOmen and Hens or whatever other content creator they fancy and convince themselves that these highly skilled players are their equals.
Most of these people commenting like the person I quoted play mid mmr (like BHVR consistently says; most players are in fact mid mmr) and aren’t consistently good. But they convince themselves survivors are so overwhelmingly strong because they see the caliber of survivors Otzdarva or whomever they admire face and then, in their low skill trials, come to believe they’re facing the cream of the crop like those content creators. That, and they’ve probably cheesed their way to a caliber of opponent they can’t actually handle due to cheap tricks.
So they cook up these crazy lies and conspiracies and attempt to warp BHVR’s data instead of accepting that they aren’t as good as they believe. I believe it’s called cognitive dissonance: when people adopt extreme beliefs out of deep discomfort with the truth?I challenge this perspective any time I see it on these forums because it influences the game in negative ways for survivor, and that disturbs me.
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honestly one of the main factors of solo queue being bad is challenge design basically encouraging people to throw the game to do them hell the archives were added almost 5?ish years ago and it’s still a problem
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Honestly, if everyone who has come through here claiming to be in high MMR actually was, it'd consist of like 50% of the playerbase.
I think another factor is that low MMR survivors are alot easier for killers to stomp through that once they hit mid MMR they think they've reached high MMR. The devs have said before that killers most people consider weak (like Trapper and Legion) perform exceptionally well in low MMR. Their MMR likely increases faster than their skill, so they stagnate for a time and think it means they've reached high MMR.
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Exactly.
Too many people confuse "struggling" with "being max MMR". Some people, unfortunately, struggle to fight their way out of a wet paper bag.
It doesn't help that the game has had some very easy strategies to boost people beyond their personal limits as well. Gen kick meta, 3 genning, camping, and tunneling are all pretty sure fire ways to boost MMR beyond someone's actual skill.
Some people struggle when facing average opponents. There's nothing wrong with that. But coming to the devs to complain that the game should be changed to allow you to easily beat people above your skill level is the main problem. And I see that an awful lot on these forums.
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You do realize that's effectively 50/50??? And you do realize that you're assuming I am worse than I am?
This is what I do not get about the posts on this forum or the rhetoric in this community, time and again, and it's something I see you particularly do a lot. I don't get it about ANYONE with similar opinions here, but you're one of the biggest examples. It's literally every other post with you and it's dismissive. Do you know how well I or anyone else performs at the game, have you seen my gameplay results? If not you really can't comment. I don't need bones thrown at me from elitists who have played for 10k hours, all I and other newcomers need is our perspective acknowledged and my experience to be seen as just as valid and equal as yours.
Not everyone has a 75%+ winstreak in the game. I don't think most people do. Most everyone is at that 60/40 split and that's fine, it doesn't mean one side is overpowered and the other isn't. That too is just another lie and conspiracy theory, to use your direct words, concocted to make people feel better about game balance not being in their favor any more. Literally everyone playing is mid except for a handful of players like Hens and the very babiest players. There are real issues that truly do affect the mid MMR experience and they need adjustment. When you say "no it's no issue, it's just because you're bad/boosted yourself", you're effectively denying and invalidating the experience of tons and tons of players, which makes people who have joined the game in the past 3 years like me feel unwelcome and unwanted.
It's time for the big boys who have been here since year one to start accepting and validating people who are newer, without the patronizing statements.
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Always so much more rewarding to run-in for a last second save and succeed, even if the chances are slim. You get such an adrenaline rush out of it.
I always do this, because I know how bad it feels to be left behind by your whole team like that (and it has happened to me, many many times). It would be nice for there to be more in-game incentives to do it too.
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I find kinda funny that what you described sounds as an amazing game to me, yet you act like it's end of the world...
I guess different expectations.
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I didn't post earlier because I was preparing a thorough but rather long post about this explaining my point of view if you want to read it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/425642/the-decline-of-survivor-game-quality-over-years#latest
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Soloq is unplayable and BHVR do nothing about it , they just interesting on release new content, and of course, always will apper BHVR's defensors saiyng this game never be better than now
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It is terrible and will only get worse. The devs have chose their side, it's not survivor, it's definitely not solo queue.
You know this yet you continue to spend your time in solo queue.
Why?
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Which is when you get M1 killers running quad slow-down and slugging just to get an edge on the 4-man with toolboxes or some other annoying meta build. Which then ofc, leads to strong killer like Nurse, Blight, Huntress etc running full-aura or quad-slowdown, not because they need to, but because they want to.
which then feeds into people not wanting to play SoloQ, so they start pairing up with friends on coms and the whole cycle repeats itself.2 -
I'm not the person you're replying to but I am a solo queue player. I disagree when it comes to the devs being killer or survivor sided. I don't believe they're either. I think they plan the majority of their updates well in advanced, and after survivors got the HUD update they decided to focus on updating killers for a time. It's possible that once they're done making killers feel and perform a bit better, they'll come back to solo queue. They did say awhile ago their goal is to bring solo queue closer to swf. So I'm hoping that's still the case.
And you know, if/when they do come back to solo queue you'll have killer mains coming here upset calling them survivor sided. Then when they update something for killers again they'll be called killer sided lol it's like clockwork. Solo queue may be miserable right now but I'm sure it won't always be. I just hope they're listening to the right feedback (survivor feedback) when it comes to improving survivor.
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The problem here is that you cannot effectively bring SoloQ close to SWF without effectively making the game survivor sided. And what I mean by this is that the biggest problems with SoloQ don’t have to do with game mechanics they have to do with individual player choices.
You have to take the following things into consideration:
1. A team that is communicating is always going to have an advantage.2. Changing game mechanics to make things easier for survivors in SoloQ will NOT change behavior. If someone is going to leave the moment the exit gates are open they are going to do so regardless
3. In order to implement ANYTHING to balance INDIVIDUAL players you have to make a single survivor equal to killer. If one survivor is on equal footing with the killer, then killers are at a 75% disadvantage in every game.
4. Buffing anything to improve SoloQ only buffs SWF even more. They will never be on the same footing through mechanics or gameplay changes.
With all of that said, I do believe the only effective way to actually bring SoloQ in line with SWF is to have a game chat option. But again that’s not guaranteed to fix anything. I have played numerous multiplayer games with a game, chat option, and again it comes down to player choices. There are people who simply will not communicate.
But if BHVR continues to try and balance gameplay mechanics when the actual issue is communication vs no communication it’s just going to become more and more UNBALANCED.Until everyone has the ability to communicate, it’s going to remain this way. I think we would very quickly start to see what changes and mechanics actually need to happen once everyone is on par with communication.
For those who choose not to communicate, they really have no place to complain at that point.0 -
solo q need a overhaul in general if it's not what you talking about happens some other soloq shenanigan happens it's currently really bad it almost feels like playing a mmo right now in soloq it's like trying to do raiding on the hardest difficulty in a pug set up.
it almost never happens that's you'll find ppl that know what there doing i know i've when trough the struggle lmfao
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It will never improve.
The devs have stated that they want a 60% kill rate minimum. The side has been chosen.
They are balancing around top level swfs. Which means solo will always be the worst off role, as it is right now.
To think that somehow it will magically change and the devs will have an epiphany and put solo survivor players at the forefront would be nieve. It's a fantasy, a hope that somehow the game will get better for you because you love(d) the game.
I have been saying this for years now. It's only going to get worse for solo players, every year I am proven right. (come back in a few years and quote me so I can say I told you so).
BHVR devs do not care about solo players, they never will.
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While I agree that the devs want to consider all player's fun I think there is a strong possibility that their data collection is flawed. I know you don't see much tunneling but my experience is substantially different and has gotten worse over the years (I just posted about it if you'd like to see the data and/or games).
For my experience tunneling has increased over five times in incidence over the last couple of years and has a win rate of over 90% when used at whatever my MMR bracket is (mid somewhere).
That high of a win rate used by approximately a quarter of players distorts the data and doesn't allow BHVR to accurately determine outcomes. Realistically BHVR doesn't have the people hours to look at the millions of games played and separate the games without tunneling from those that have tunneling.
What distorts BHVR's data collection even more is that the kill rate for Killers in my data set was a bit lower than desired when Killers didn't camp or tunnel. If that holds true for the majority of games and isn't just exclusive to my experience than any changes BHVR makes will ignore and create more pressure towards camping and tunneling.
For positive changes to be made for all players, which I do believe is BHVR's goal, they need accurate data. To get that data BHVR will either need to eliminate tunneling or somehow separate games with tunneling from those without. Until that is done, I don't have any optimism that any changes BHVR makes will have a significant outcome on the solo survivor experience.
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it doesn't need overhaul in general, it needs just four things:
- basekit Kindred;
- perk loadouts visible to teammates;
- much more strict MMR;
- much better punishment for people griefing in any way, especially those that are giving up prematurely
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It really is a vicious cycle and I don't know how we're supposed to fix it. :(
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Because i like this game, i invested in this game and i always try, but, more and more frequently i leave survivor and i will go to play killer. I play since 2018 and never be so disgusting to play as soloq than now.
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I don’t like the idea of making perks base kit…
I think Perk loadouts could be OK but it could also potentially lead to griefing or dodging.
They’ve tried tightening MMR in the past and it affects queue times. Mostly for killer, but still for both sides.
It’s difficult to determine if a player is truly griefing vs just being bad at the game and the devs have stated they don’t want to wade into trying to guess or determine a player’s intent. It would be awful if this game punished people who were just new or bad players because they did ‘grieflike’ things.
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The biggest problem for solo queue is the ridiculously terrible MMR scoring system that uses escapes as the SOLE DEFINING INDICATOR OF YOUR SKILL. It boggles my mind that we can't use the whole emblem system, which has other elements that correlate highly with being good at looping, not being a useless teammate, etc. If we had a halfway-functioning MMR scoring system and matchmaking system, at least there would be some hope in solo queue that if you play well, even if you don't escape, you will eventually get matched with non-useless teammates. With the current system, it's especially difficult for good solo queue players to increase their MMR scores because they so often get matched with terrible teammates and have no chance of escaping, no matter how good these poor solo queue players are.
There should also be an option for you to not be matched with a certain percentile below your MMR score. Make it a check box in the options that says you are willing to wait for longer queues to avoid being matched with other players way below your skills level.
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i don't think it would change much the game right now power creep wise is so much higher than it was in it's different aspect of the game even tough right now i think it's pretty balance when the game launched it attracted a lot of casual players that don't really care about balance and like the fantasy of the dbd "vibes" and there a lot to take in consideration on both side of the coin but is amplified expansionaly in soloq i think ppl in general can't handle the current version of the game and hance why 2v8 was more popular to the point that dbd was at it's almost all time high in player count for the entire duration of the event it was more casual friendly and had less pressure on both sides but especially solo q
but if i where to put a perk basekit for soloq survs woo would it for me because it allows you to have info on how to navigate the map on top for experiance players playing solo having the info of what pallets got drop and what didn't you get that info naturally in swf anyway
but i do think that soloq needs a overhaul and survivors in general need some new stuff that ain't perk that makes the game fresh for the more casual ppl
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i don't think it would change much the game right now power creep wise is so much higher than it was in it's different aspect of the game even tough right now i think it's pretty balance when the game launched it attracted a lot of casual players that don't really care about balance and like the fantasy of the dbd "vibes" and there a lot to take in consideration on both side of the coin but is amplified expansionaly in soloq i think ppl in general can't handle the current version of the game and hance why 2v8 was more popular to the point that dbd was at it's almost all time high in player count for the entire duration of the event it was more casual friendly and had less pressure on both sides but especially solo q
trust me, i played enough PvP games to see who are the players that usually present themselves as casuals, especially after fortnite was released. That game truly poisoned too many PvP communities with the "i win = it's fun, no matter how i play; you win = you are a tryhard" mentality and justifying broken stuff only when they are the ones using it. 2v9 was more popular by the killer side because you could finally have an actual teammate to play a solo role with.
but if i where to put a perk basekit for soloq survs woo would it for me because it allows you to have info on how to navigate the map on top for experiance players playing solo having the info of what pallets got drop and what didn't you get that info naturally in swf anyway
problem is…WoO has become quite a crutch for bad players rather than training wheel, much more players are using it for the well known "i see yellow, i run to yellow" playstyle than those that are actually checking where are pallets dropped by soloQ teammates.
but i do think that soloq needs a overhaul and survivors in general need some new stuff that ain't perk that makes the game fresh for the more casual ppl
both casual and truly competitive ppl play to win, the problem with survivor role is that teammates often have different goals, challenges are mostly to blame here.
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That's pretty typical. Pretty much guaranteed 4-man out only for the team to screw it up at the end, and skew the results massively because they do this quite often.
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Taking video games seriously kills the heart.
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Only because you never get good teammates in solo. SWF isn't the miracle cure; good matchmaking is. SWF just imbalances the game in the opposite direction.
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Ill take that SWF direction then. Most of my solo'Q games fall apart during endgame. And its usually due to someone wanting to get one last Glyph challenge, or something stupid. And then 'highly skilled' Altruism kicks in and the killer got a 3k.
It might be the wrong direction, but BHVR is sailing this ship. We do what we can aboard to enjoy it. Solo'Q is not that atm.
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solo Q;
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a) its not the end of the World. Its just a video game after all. And im not saying that looping the killer for such a long time and having an impact wasnt fun. Things like this are just annoying when they happen too often.
b) This just Shows a large problem that solo queue is having. Most survivors only play as a team as long as it benefits them. There is just no incentive to keep playing as a team and try to get everyone out except personal preference. Many people just leave their "teammates" even though they have 0 hooks and BT cause they can get out and have no reason to get back cause MMR or even BP gain doesnt reward that kind of play
c) The MMR System that we are having rewards plays that consist of hiding in a corner and maybe doing 1 gen and then getting out more than plays that consist of Looping the killer sucessfully for a long time, doing multiple gens but in the end getting left by the team. In they eyes of MMR I lost those games while the rest of my team won. If it happens often enough I get put into an even lower bracket and am basically smurfing without really wanting to. This also intensifies the problems I had in my original Post
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I think Scott Jund had the idea that killers could have individual base % when they kick gens. Basic M1 killers have a higher base damage than say killers with good map traversal, who would naturally have lower damage. Obvs they'd have to rethink regression and kicking mechanics while balancing regression/defence perks around that.
Also, I had the thought to add on top of that, that gen blocking perks that vary in length so survivors don't just have to wait it out (E.G: Corrupt is useless if you down a survivor early due to luck or RNG spawns or if the survivors engage in hide-and-seek waiting out the timer), forcing them to look for a different gen to work on (say if they miss a skill check), which would give them more chances to come across the killer. Which I think could be more beneficial than kicking, as it's still a passive slowdown as Survivors don't just hunker down on gens while the killer is chasing the god-looper.
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Not always true, I play as a duo with a good friend (sometimes a trio if we can convince a third to join us) and we do come across some very good SoloQ survivors from time to time. More often than not, they're another Duo, but sometimes we luck out and get two coordinated randoms. They're out there, but it's still incredibly rare.
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The problem exists for Killers too, because the MMR only cares about Kills. Nothing else. If you are too good and you 3-4k too often, even if they are good loopers who just had a bad game, you skyrocket your MMR just by chance. If people throw, you get a free win and boost MMR for nothing, which can push you to a higher level than you are ready for. Then if you realize you're there you have a harder time getting out of it solely because of the loss prevention feature to prevent smurfing, which doesn't even work because people can and do still lobby dodge.
I don't know why on earth we can't have the option to wait for better queues to match us with people who aren't so far beyond or below our skill level with a Killer or as Survivor, there's nothing that we can do.0 -
Because the community voted that they wanted faster queues over more accurate matchmaking. It was a big thing. Matchmaking used to be much stricter but people were quite upset with the long queue times (and it hurt killers more as you needed more survivors who were on the killer’s MMR, but it’s a lot tougher for survivors to gain MMR than killers) so BHVR had to deeply relax the skill-based matchmaking system.
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A shame. Maybe making MMR gain and loss equal would help?
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