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Every Killer is camping and tunneling, and I'm at my wit's end.
We're skipping past the part where we flame the Killer players for doing it.
What am I supposed to do about it as a Survivor?
I'm at the point where I'm running DH, DS, OTR, and Babysitter. Four perks that I don't really WANT to run. But four perks that I feel like I HAVE to run. (And one of them is to literally BABYSIT my teammates who aren't going to do their part in running anti-tunneling perks!)
But I can't make people run away from the Killer after I give them Babysitter.
And I can't stop the Killer from dropping chases with me because I'm not the weak link. (And even if they don't, I can't make my team do gens during my chases.)
And I can't make people run OTR for an 80-second Distortion effect, which prevents BBQ tunneling.
I'm at my god damn wit's end with this #########. The reality is that BHVR needs to fix a lot of the core issues with the game, and stop making perks as bandaids to those issues. But in the meantime, what the actual hell am I supposed to do?
(And on the flip side, as a former Killer main, I understand that getting 8 hooks no kills, ESPECIALLY with minimal or zero gen slowdown, is just an automatic loss if you're on a normal-mobility Killer. And then Killers run 4x gen slowdowns to try to fix the game with perk slots again, and then what happens? People say, "Omg they're running 4x gen slowdowns, we gotta nerf them." So we nerf them. And then what does that mean? It means gens are going by FASTER, making us NEED 4x gen slowdown perks EVEN MORE. How they aren't understanding this concept, I'll never know.)
But anyway…
Comments
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Given the other topic you made, I think you really should just take a break away from the game.
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You tunneled when you were a killer main. You understand the psychology behind that. No, you can’t always compensate for skill deficiencies between you and your teammates but maybe joining a SWF with people whose skills are around yours could help you.
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Let this topic be this topic, thanks.
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The problem lies in the fact that we’ve created a situation where we’ve punished killers for playing strategically in every other aspect and the average killer is compensating for all of the handicaps by tunneling.
The mentality has been that this game should be the survivors doing gens while the killer stands by and watches them. When you read through some of the things on this forum, I truly believe there are people who absolutely believe that is exactly how the game should be. Anything that prevents them from having a cakewalk is too OP and MUST be nerfed. Okay well we’ve gotten there and this is the result.
You don’t want the killer to be able to hold a three gen when survivors don’t pop strategically? Done.
You don’t want slowdowns to hinder your gen progress? Done.
Now you don’t want the killer to chase you? Or better yet you want killers to throw games by not strategically chasing people to eliminate them from the game. Allow all four survivors to remain in the game as long as possible so that they can pop generators. When right now the only actual way to prevent generators from being popped, is to eliminate the number of people working on them.
Also, this is not geared at the OP but rather the community in general. The OP understands both ends. As do I, I find it incredibly frustrating to deal with the increased tunneling, but I know how and why we’ve arrived here. And until we are willing to stop, pretending that we as survivors didn’t create this, then I don’t see a solution in sight.
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I did not tunnel when I was a Killer main. I understand WANTING to, but it's not fun. People that tunnel are more interested in the victory screen than they are the journey that got them there. The whole reason I quit playing Killer was because I liked to play "fair" and "clean," and all it ever got me was flamed for losing games. Never once have I ever received a "thank you" for literally ignoring who my tunnel target would have been. That's why I go out of my way as a Survivor to thank Killers after they lose for having played "clean" or "fair."
In truth, tunneling/camping is more about avoiding the defeat screen than anything else. Gaining that leverage in the toxic postgame chat that you've won, which goes a lot farther than having lost. (And hiding chat is just burying your head in the sand. It might work for some people, but others still know it's going on.)
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I thought every killer was now slugging because hooks are worthless? I wish people would make up their minds 🤣
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I am sympathetic to to what you're experiencing but your only real option if you're sick of being tunneled and camped is to not play solo queue. The difference for the skill floor for tunneling and the skill floor to counter tunnelling is too great to expect that you will more than extremely rarely get a team that is coordinated enough to counter it and tunneling swings the game balance too much in the Killer's favour unless you're in a coordinated SWF that has prepared for tunneling for you to really have a chance.
You won't consistently get the level of cohesion and coordination needed to counter it if you have random teammates. Until it gets changed solo is only very rarely worth playing if the Killer tunnels.
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Unfortunately, there's not much you can do. If one survivor makes a big mistake, unless the killer plays super nice or way overcommits, survivors are going to lose.
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i resonate with this so much. its funny when I think about it typically the survivors who tend to flame are the ones I clearly went easy on and the ones who don't are ones who clowned me. I have always played for 12 hooks spreading them out the best I could.
When you don't main either role I don't see how you could play any other way. Though tbh I also don't feel like I need to win to have fun.
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People are saying this because in a PVP game, a less skilled player should lose more often than a more skilled player. The devs seem to disagree with that to a point, and I'll concede that it's a bit harder to quantify that in an asymmetrical game. But the crux of the argument is that tunneling is WAY too easy and too impactful for the effort it takes, just like holding a 3 gen with CoB+Eruption was way too easy and impactful relative to player input. It is firmly a skill issue if a killer cannot consistently win games in current DbD without hard tunneling in the early game.
The knee-jerk "aw shucks killers just can't have anything" reaction that many players have isn't really rooted in reality. Players want to have fun playing video games and it isn't fun to watch a killer cheese their way to wins. This isn't a both sides have an equivalent thing scenario. A killer shouldn't be able to load in and decide that a player just isn't going to be able to participate in this one. You should have to spread pressure and win chases with different players, and if you can't do that or choose to tunnel out one player, the survivors should stand a chance.
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Exactly this. Survivors demand everything gets nerfed because they dont want to play around things or adjust their gameplay. Killer gameplay choices and build variety have been eroded to the point you'll see the same killers often, same perks, same forced tactics and strategies because nothing else is as viable unless you want a harder timer for no reason. Meanwhile the game actively covers for terrible survivor gameplay and rewards them for it. Slowdown and regression perks are still the best perks to take even after nerfs because there's nothing else really worth the perk slots except a few staples and niche picks, that or aura reading (which gets countered by the insane amount of distortion use anyway so unless you go all in you're back to slowdown perks)
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Exactly this. Killer gameplay choices and build variety have been eroded to the point you'll see the same killers often, same perks, same forced tactics and strategies because nothing else is as viable unless you want a harder timer for no reason. Meanwhile the game actively covers for terrible survivor gameplay and rewards them for it. Slowdown and regression perks are still the best perks to take even after nerfs because there's nothing else really worth the perk slots except a few staples and niche picks, that or aura reading (which gets countered by the insane amount of distortion use anyway so unless you go all in you're back to slowdown perks)
Want to stop excessive camping and tunneling? Incentivize and reward killers for not doing it, punishing isnt the way to go because it just means you double down on it. Even then, making the game a 3v1 lets killers not sweat and makes the game more enjoyable for most of them.
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Take a break to the 2v8 comeback if you sick of tactics. That the only advice i can really give you
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Pretty much this.
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This! When I play survivor, sure I get as frustrated at being tunneled at 4 gens as the next person, but being a killer main I can also see what the killer is seeing: every generator that he passed while pursuing me was at least at 70%, so its not 4 gens, its "basically 2 gens left, while I have only one hook to my name".
And at this point there has been no opportunity to eliminate any pallets, so it isn't viable to show mercy to that one guy on deathhook and go after someone else, at this point in the game that would mean throwing. Sure, some players are okay with that, but not everyone is. I handed quite a good amount of games to survivors who actually didn't deserve it and were I could have easily sealed the deal. And more often then not (really, WAY WAY WAY more often then not) I got paid back for that with a "ggeeeeeez hahaha so easy" and t-bagging and BMing and twerking at the exit gates.
And now the +10s close off yet another venue of applying and maintaining pressure and giving survivors YET another one to have their cake and eat it, too, finishing their gens and still save their teammate. Killer might not feel as abyssmal as it did pre 6.1, but not both roles feel at their wits end and having to resort to unfun tactics. This games MMR breed and burned every ounce of playfulness out of the game, and all thats left is a mean, lean, efficient killing/gen-popping machine.
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Mean even long before the gen slow down nerf everyone I mean everyone ran pop and painrez because it was soo op perk COMBO (basically like a doubble spring burst ) the equivlent to 4 slowdowns so no makeing gen regression weaker didn't make killers need 4 slowdowns it forced them into it because their used to having old pop and painrez that legit added 12 to 20 minutes to the game alone and we won't even talk about the fact that every one uses these perks in unintentionally ways such as 3 gen hook trade pop and pain rez u will got NOWERE IN SOLO QUEUEand playstly was just boring to go againts killer won't chase was so ever so basically not participating in normal gameplay
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This is MOSTLY the devs' fault. BHVR should be encouraging build variety, playstyle variety, and killer variety. Instead, they're doing the exact opposite.
You want to use a hit and run playstyle (the healthiest and most fun playstyle a killer can have, for both sides)? It's literally weakened every patch and actively discouraged by the devs. You are punished as a killer for playing this way.
You want to run a more varied but still useful build? Too bad, there are only two good gen regression perks in the game. And not only did they get nerfed (alongside the other four that were useful), but BHVR also keeps ignoring the weaker ones, so you either run those or might as well not run anything at all.
You want to play a killer that isn't Blight, Billy, or Spirit? Tough luck, because if you dare to do so and face a competent team playing to win, you WILL lose. On top of that, you have to run the sweatiest builds possible on weaker killers because they simply don't work otherwise. If you try a fun, meme build, you don't even get to use it because the game is over in 8 minutes.
This is the game the devs have created and continue to foster, and what does the community do? "Huh, these toxic killer mains do nothing but tunnel!" when the actual problem is BHVR and how all they need to do to keep the community playing is grabbing a new collab (even if the gameplay from it sucks, like Dracula being weak as hell and having CHEST PERKS LOL).
Also, I firmly believe that all these "camping and tunneling" whiny posts would be completely resolved if people actually played the other side for once. I guarantee that if you spent some of your DBD time playing and learning killer, you’d better understand the real issues with this game.
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Left Behind is a perk for you. Whether your teammates are useful or become hookmeat, you get a chance of making it out of the trial — which means, you don't need to rely on others to survive. Having a key on you is also a plus — at least, I've noticed that after the 4-man escape Hatch was removed, Killers target key-holding Survivors less often.
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All of this 100%, especially the last part. Its very obvious alot of people whining don't play killer, or do so rarely and never actually match against somewhat competent players where all the glaring problems that killers now have due bad choices to restrict gameplay come to light.
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take a break from this game for a few months. Trust me, once i went outside and felt the touch of another human being I was much happier (I wish I hadn’t spent so much money on this game).
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if you can't do that or choose to tunnel out one player, the survivors should stand a chance.
Only if survivor is good at the chase. A large reason why tunneling is so effective is survivor being poor at the chase and the killer finding weak links.
the crux of the argument is that tunneling is WAY too easy and too impactful for the effort it takes, just like holding a 3 gen with CoB+Eruption was way too easy and impactful relative to player input. It is firmly a skill issue if a killer cannot consistently win games in current DbD without hard tunneling in the early game.
You can use same arguement for survivors gen-rushing gens in 8 minutes. it is too easy to be glued to generators and speed-run the game. Survivors should need to be better at the chase and not just be good at gens. the killer is speed-running the game because SWF are speed-running the game leaving no time to spread pressure.
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The only people who understand are people that do play both sides. I am a survivor main, but I play killer enough to know why killers are doing it.
Personally, tunneling does nothing for the builds that I normally run as I won’t get value out of half of my build if I were to do that. But I can definitely see why a lot of killers do.
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Can't agree more. I don't tunnel hard from the start, most of the time I will tunnel if survivors give it to me and I feel like I need to. Otherwise, I stopped play to win and just enjoy chases. But holy, amount of games where I had very solid games on weak killers with 8-9 hooks and 0-1 kills is stupid. All I got for it usually is "gg ez".
One week ago I had match against gigachad Wesker where he had 8 hooks and 0 kills. I just came to him to give him a kill, because he absolutely deserved it, and he just didn't bother about it. You know what I saw when back to exit gates? "Watch me leave" show with teabags.
I have no empathy for most survivors being tunneled, because they simply not even don't respect when killer
play fairthrow the game for no reason as they want, but literally take it as a weakness. Let's have fun, but obviously we won't care about yours.4 -
Chases aren't happening in a vacuum. DbD is never being played with a powerless M1 killer on a 100% safe map. This 2016 DbD notion that survivors always have outplay potential still exists for some reason. If I go down because I had a bench and a hill on 30% of the map, and I get hooked in that same area, I don't have options. It's a free tunnel out unless I managed to use my psychic abilities and bring a full anti-tunnel build.
No, gen rushing is not equivalent. There is not an equivalent thing for every mechanic on each side. A good killer can apply pressure without hard tunneling from the start. This is not a both sides issue.
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I almost never run into tunneling personally. In my last 200 games I think I have been successfully tunneled once. It was by a nurse who immediately blinked onto me after I was unhooked. Tunneling is the most overblown "issue" in the game and I can't tell if people really do get tunneled all the time or if it's an issue of perception. Granted I am a very experienced survivor main with 4400+ hours so I am more equipped to deal with it than most players. I do think that tunneling as S-tier killers is cringe but that's more of an issue with the killer itself being overpowered than it is an issue of tunneling. You're really shooting yourself in the foot by bringing that much anti tunnel. You'd be much better off bringing just one anti tunnel perk and replacing one of the others with something like we'll make it. My escape rate has sky rocketed since I started using it.
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It's increased by over 5 times in my games over the last two years and the average escape rate when tunneled for all survivors in solo queue, with at least one of said survivors having at least one anti tunnel perk in every game was less than 10%.
That doesn't sound like an 'overblown' issue but more like a glaring issue that makes pre 6.1 Dead Hard and original Circle of Healing look tame in comparison.
The only 'reason' to tunnel in public matches is because you're dissatisfied with winning over 50% of your games or you've tunneled enough you're now in an MMR bracket that is above your skill level without tunneling. Doing it as revenge for BM isn't the most edifying thing but honestly I still consider it as more legitimate than the other two reasons.
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personally, dud game = die on hook, if the killer doesnt wanna play the game neither do I, skip and go on to the next match, and save your sanity, the only thing forcing you to play that match is the disconnect penalties so do the loophole and get out of there
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i do not state in my post that killer are powerless m1. i state in my post that killer are powerless vs efficient gen-rushing and that counter-play to tunneling is being strong at the chase.
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please. can people care about the game they like and demand changes so it's more enjoyable?
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You can leave feedback about what you would like to see change, but "demanding" changes is a bit much.
Also with the context of his topic complaining about how everyone in the game is intentionally being toxic towards each other, I think OP just needs to take a break from the game.
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Despite the rhetoric from killers, it is a false prophecy that killers camp and tunnel because it's necessary. The truth here is that it is an overpowered strategy, an exploit of design for an unfair advantage over an opponent.
I believe there's been winstreaks and experiments where killers can win hundreds and thousands of matches without losing and this by nature of probability must be against experienced teams too. Essentially abusing this exploit to guarantee wins. It's sad gamers defend this but I can say BHVR is controlled and this is how the game caters to, twitch streamers to showcase their skill in game, which is more essentially putting their opponents at an unfair disadvantage.
Imagine if there was a god loop a survivor could beat killers over and over without ever losing? BHVR would fix it immediately.
Generally speaking, the effort and skill required to camp and tunnel is minute compared to what it takes for survivors to win against it.
We should be promoting fun and fairness in a video game not embracing overpowered tactics.
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you can at least comment on their points and not just tell them to "take it or leave it"
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It's a rant/vent post.
When the game is getting you this bothered, the best thing to do is to take a break.
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they probably don't need to be told to do that since it's just, common sense. if you don't enjoy a thing you leave it. you could share your experiences, opinions or ways to deal with it but you chose to hit them with the classic, it's not helpful at all just annoying.
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Its a strategy that takes 0 effort and is rewarded for … whatever reason. There is no counter to it short of coordination and … welp.
I have already said this;
The developers and the community seem to want to do everything they can to make sure that does NOT happen in soloQ.
They want do not want to show you your teammates perks in lobbies, they want to not allow any form of pings/communication, they dont want to have anti-camp be any more than sitting within striking distance, they continually make it easier to proxy camp with killer releases Dracula/Vecna/Unknown; All have fast map traversal and AOE hit capabilities; ease of tunneling…
The playstyle is rewarded because welp, the killer players that play this game offer no pushback to blatantly broken things about their favorite killer.Just look at Dracula, why is Hellfire a 7s cd??? You have to be joking. You have another anti loop as the dog, or catchup should the survivor just run to another loop. And then hook, bat form, repeat… No one speaks up about it because they have coped themselves into thinking its fair. There is no downsides to this killer.
Oh and of course camp the hook for that sweet sweet double hellfire hit, because fair and balanced and fun.
Meanwhile I play legion, have 20s cd on feral frenzy, the only power I have by the way, and can only MEND hit someone across a pallet or vault. And I am perfectly fine with legion. Win easily…. 90% of my matches honestly. The downside of legion vaulting is you cant just get a free hit.Same with Plague, I have a SINGLE POWER that is conditional if I actually want to go grab it, with the downside of plague being you can loop her insanely well and her red puke being limited and conditional. And you can knock her out of it as well.
Killers with downsides? Right how foreign can that be?
The continued decisions of the company and the players complacency is why tunneling/camping is in this game. Not any silly strategy of some "comp SWF can do this so this is why I do it…" excuse they give you.4 -
Their response WAS on topic. You expressed anger at Killer side because it feels hard to counter their tactics. That indicates frustration which means you need a break from the game. Please take a break. Come back during the modifiers, maybe Chaos Shuffle when it's not as sweaty for you.
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And do you have data for this "increased by over five times" claim? I would love to see it. If you can't provide it I am inclined to think you just hit a lot of rough patches and are seeing these things where they aren't.
I agree the only good reason to tunnel someone out is if you are stuck where you have to tunnel or you're avenging BM. However I will add that it's probably also fine to tunnel if you absolutely need pressure THAT bad midround at 2 gens left or something and have to start a snowball.
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All pretty much the truth.
It can't be just hours because I am 1300 hours, I play more Surv than Killer and am usually in a SWF, and tunnelling only ever happens to me in one of a few distinct cases:
- I'm playing someone like Sable or Jane who is really easy to see and the Killer can't find anyone else;
- The Killer feels desperate or we made a mistake that they correctly took advantage of;
- I am the weak link or on Death Hook and thus make for an easy target;
- The Killer is already good at mobility, or;
- I actively went and did something obnoxious or perceived as toxic and the Killer wants me out of the game ASAP as a result.
It is hardly EVER just because "it's that easy to do" or "the Killer is toxic". Hardly ever. But I'm not surprised people are tunnelling more when again, lots of things Killers did have got nerfed for little to no reason other than "We as Survivors find it annoying to face, let us do gens in peace!" Meanwhile some of the strongest Survivor items have not been touched, though strong Survivor perks have. Then when the Killer tries to be nice, which is not at all rewarded by the game in any way, just done to be kind? They get the "GGEZ" teabag treatment. For being kind. No wonder people no longer treat Killer as "the DM of the round" there to help everyone have fun, and they just all are ruthless. To win, you have to be. And the game directly, directly in the form of challenges and the very Grade system, asks them to always, always try to win.
The disrespect from players to other players is currently out of control and needs to be addressed by BHVR asap. It's actually ruining the game on both sides. I get Killers who try to be nice being crapped on for doing so, then turn around and get crapped on for being nice as Killer. I get Survivors who don't like me as Killer and actively try to annoy me, then as Survivor I get Survivors who purposefully grief, sandbag, throw, or don't want to help when we need it. It's awful, and it really does stem from mostly Survivors. Killer toxicity simply does not happen in a vacuum, it comes from somewhere. These are learned behaviors done out of frustrated desperation, probably from Survivors who crapped on these players in the past like they're so gosh darned amazing at the game for bullying the utter crud out of a baby Trapper.
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175 Survivor games with accompanying videos and analysis with the first set of 75 games done close to two years ago and 100 games done over the last month. The first set of games done close to two years had a 5.3% incidence of tunneling and the most current set had a 26% incidence of tunneling.
The post below has the spreadsheets, links to all 175 games and a link specifically to the first tunneler I found in the current games so you can see what I consider tunneling in action.
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but it literally is the most helpful advice lol. The most helpful advice most of dbd community isn't even considering to apply to themselves because they are in toxic relationship with the game.
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we aren't their therapists lmao they don't post here to be told to take a break.
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One BILLION percent.
When you think about the game's CONCEPT, you naturally think that spreading hook states would be pressuring all Survivors and making the entire Survivor team not have time to do generators. Because, you know… they're all being chased and hooked, and all need to be unhooked and healed before returning to gens.
But in actuality, it doesn't play out REMOTELY like that. And I think there's a LOT of reasons.
- A lot of perks (like mapwide regression or blocking) help you not lose gens for camping and tunneling a hook.
- Healing is completely trivial, so it's not like you're able to keep players pressured if you don't immediately return to them.
- Gens are also trivial, and looping is also mostly trivial in favor of Survivors (depending on the Killer character). Lots of players don't even bother healing, they just sit on gens while injured because they don't feel the need to have an extra health state in a chase. They simply aren't threatened by more than half the Killer roster.
- Probably lots of other factors.
I always like to try to make the "pressure everybody" strategy work, because, in my mind, that's how the CONCEPT of DBD was always supposed to work. Even though I know it doesn't, I'm still on the eternal quest to find out how to MAKE it work, lol.
But you know what really controversial thing I think would DRASTICALLY fix the game?
Make hook states last indefinitely during gen phase.
It might sound like a bad idea on the surface, but if you actually think about it and try to tell me a specific reason, you'll find that there's actually nothing wrong with it at all. (This would ONLY serve good purposes, and anybody that isn't toxicly camping hooks wouldn't even be effected by it anyway.)
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