Do bhvr all main killers and hate survivors?
I have 3k hours in dbd, but so many of my fav perks got nerfed, idk back in 2020 smth, dead hard, iron will, decisive , i didnt feel like playing anymore. I come back this year to see they kept that party going. At the same time they seem to have buffed killer perks alot. And release some insane anti loop killers. I dont disagree with all of the changes, but i just wanna know from the killers side of things (ive played a fair amout of killer but its nowhere near as intriguing as playing a surv to me)
Do you killers also see things are getting way too unbalanced? Do you win everygame you play? (3 dead is a win yes?)
I dont care to escape trials (but dont get me worng i will sit on a gen any sec i get) ill die for that last teammate on hook, ill get downed for you if you are on your last hook.
i just want FUN gameplay. TEAMPLAY. But bvhr really made sure thats impossible now.
I cba going in to specific perks/ changes , just in general. I wanna know what killers think, preferably those above the k mark in hours played.
Comments
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No
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Yes. The devs hate it when you play survivor. They want everyone to play killer because that's totally how an asymetrical game with 1 killer and 4 survivors works.
You could have made a better point if you hadn't listed 3 perks that used to be pretty ridiculous. DH was so overpowered that everyone used it. And I mean everyone. We saw the official pick rates at the time and under no circumstances should a perk be so good that 75% of survivors use it (in high MMR no less).
Iron Will was the weakest of the 3 but it had no downside whatsoever, which for an effect this strong shouldn't be a thing. DS was also unfair at the time. You could sit on a gen after getting unhooked and you were still protected. Basically the killer was punished for the crime of hooking you. It's no tunneling when you sit on a gen.
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I'm starting to think survivor mains have a victim complex
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Just some of us. I've shaken my head more at survivor post than killer. Not us vs them'ing, just… the stats I've got lol
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A lot of them do, and the funny thing is they'll sit here and accuse Killer Mains of a) wanting to win every single match and tryharding to do it, b) having a victim complex whenever anything of theirs gets nerfed.
No, no. That's you, friends. You are the ones DESPERATE to 4 man out every game and having a victim complex when your overpowered crap gets deservedly and fairly nerfed. You're projecting.
It's time to stop projecting on Killers when you were the power role for 7. Long. Years, and nearly every single awful meta the game has ever had except one has been a SURVIVOR SIDED META with the exception of 3 Gen Meta. It's time to actually learn loops, learn how to use teamwork, and learn how to use your perks effectively just like Killers have had to for years. It's time for the training wheels and second chances and kid gloves to come off. It's time for you to stop boosting yourselves with perks the same way Killers had to stop doing it when 3 Gen Meta died. It's time to let you and your SWF have permission to lose and let MMR put you at a level you all belong in instead of being so carried, only the toppest tier of A and S tiers can touch you. It's time. It's time.
It's time to learn how to actually play the game instead of relying on your failsafes to save your butts. The exact same way Killers have had to do for 7. Long. Painful. Tedious. Years.
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Funny enough I have the same results. My escapes and deaths have not noticeably increased or decreased, I certainly don't think the game is harder as Surv now. In fact, last we had a super strong Surv meta was with MFT, then FTP+BU, and in both cases If elt like Survivor was unfairly cheap and easy. Way, way, way too easy. Where's the fun, the challenge, the risk in too many get out of jail free cards? Where? Where?
Where is the fun in easy rounds as Survivor?
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Well, I am not attacking ofc, but if the game was easy with those perks, build something else. If using those perks diluted the game experience for you, stop using them.
If you're killer side with this, sorry for the hell with FTP+BU. lol
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Yeah, BHVR are actually a shadowy cabal of Killer Mains, they sit in cloaks around a large obsidian table all discussing how to bring the kill rates up.
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It was both. I didn't use those perks at the time. I don't believe in using broken overly strong perks on either side. Didn't use UW when it was broken strong, either.
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Can I ask your typical loadout for survivor right now? I am so very curious lol.
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idk why the insults are necessary when im obviously asking for opinons from the other side of things, quite childish
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yeah i do understand those changes, like i said i dont disagree with all of them. but many perks are not even just nerfed, they are rendered useless
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I am asking for killers point of view, and open to have my view change, hence the question. Idk if its survivors that has victim mentally because many here seemed offended by me even asking lol
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All of those nerfed survivor perks are still meta.
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The problem with your argument is that the exact same thing (except for the length of time) applies to Killer. While Survivor did have crutches with pre 6.1 DH, release CoH, etc it's now the crutches are gone, that's in the past, and there are Killers, a minority but a significant minority, who are relying on crutches such as tunnelling as their failsafes.
Rather than being us vs them and attempting to bring up a past history that no longer currently applies it would be healthier if there were no crutches for either side so the exact same thing applies to Killers. It's time to learn the macro game, learn when to drop chase and when to continue, how to apply gen pressure, stop applying crutches such as tunnelling and put yourself in the MMR category you deserve to be at instead of being carried to higher MMR levels due to said crutches.
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We killer mains have that too, but we at least have ground to stand on. I mean, what good perks are there anymore besides Rancor? Good survivors just power through everything else. Look at Dracula, who straight-up can't get them if they're good, the same as any M1. But survivors want to keep using bottom level statistics to decide what's good balance or not.
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"KILLER MAINS RUN THE PLANET"
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sorry you had to feel that way for so long. idk where in my post you got all that from, but it seems like pent up anger.
I know how to loop very well, but sometimes looping gets you nowhere today.5 -
I still see those perks a lot, i dont understand wdym.
I guess "in general" killers are used to get meta killed and try new stuff. Ruin+undying, kick gen meta, painRes+deadManSwitch etc...
Desd hard still meta since begining, DS still strong unless nurse, iron will really good.
To me im just glad they just buff bomb perks and stuff i use those a lot xD Blast mine + wiretap is a solid combo to me.
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I know there are Killer mains who act like victims too. But man are the forums flooded with survivors acting like victims over every single thing lately.
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If I'm gonna be fairly honest, I think that some of the perk changes are questionable while most are being reasonable. The gen protection perks that block gens getting nerfed can be justifiable a bit with the current gen block meta of both DMS + Grim Embrace, but some of the killer perk nerfs that recently happened to both Pain Res and Pop were some of the REALLY questionable changes since Pop isn't a flat percentage and was literally never used at 20% because of that and now it's back to 20% and Pain Res was brought down to 20% from 25% since now it is only 5% stronger than the original Pain Res while still being restricted by its token system. BHVR's "reasoning" for those two nerfs was so they could bring Pop and Pain Res into line with all of the gen regression perk when, in reality, they aren't really comparable at all. DS which was a popular perk back then was buffed back up to 5 seconds despite everybody's warning of 5 seconds being too much without old Enduring so they eventually listened to those people and brought it down to the good point of 4 seconds like everybody said to do. Iron Will got bumped back up to 100% again and since survivor mains were all very happy with it, but killer mains weren't at all about it since it completely screwed Spirit over so BHVR decided to reverted Stridor back to what it used to be to counter it making both of those perks back to square one. And so on-
TLDR: They're mostly nerfing a lot of the gen protection perks for killer while bringing all of the perks that are bad up-to-date so that they're actually more tempting to use.
As for all of the anti-loop killers you mentioned, the reason for this is because now most killer players view the killer roster as this: "if it doesn't have anti-loop it's not worth using." If we'd want to see anti-loop killers fade away from the game then we'd need looping severely nerfed to make it to where they're no longer needed and, as you can expect, many players are gonna hard disagree with the idea of severely nerfing the ability to loop which means that anti-loop killers are just gonna keep being a thing in the game.
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I agree with a couple points of your post but not all. Killer mains also have a victim complex and most Killer perks are not very good at all. That's one of the reasons why I posted against what Eruption was turned into during the Erupting Call of Overbrine meta. It was too strong especially in conjunction with the Call of Brine/Overcharge combo but neither side needs garbage perks to scroll through and the proposed changes, in my opinion, went too far. Why not a selected category of perks? Both Call of Brine and Overcharge seemed reasonably on their own during that meta; it was only when they were stacked there was an issue. Why not bump Ruin back up to 200% but also have it deactivate upon a survivor's death? Why not bump Pain Res back up to 25% on each hook but have it deactivate upon a survivor's death? Have them have better gen regression but have the regression disappear upon the death of a survivor.
However, the same applies to Survivor. Most Survivor perks are also garbage. The trend on both sides has been to depower perks. Also, as soon as improvements to solo queue are mentioned one of the inevitable hue and cries is "But what about SWFs and comp?" when the number of 4 person SWFs who actually work together seriously instead of just messing around is miniscule fraction of encounters. That pretty much is a cry to balance Survivors around the top while simultaneously giving Killers buffs due to the lower level performers.
In my opinion, perks could stand to be strengthened on both sides and there are different improvements that both Killer and Survivors could get. However, if people treat it like a competition by saying 'but what about this?' that only encourages an us vs them mentality that muddies the waters about what improvements could actually be made.
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Depends on the Survivor. I run different builds on everyone. For example my Alucard runs Eyes of Belmont, Potential Energy, Lithe, and Still Sight for thematic reasons. However my Nea is more of a stealth altruist and runs Deliverance, OTR, Distortion, and Iron Will - which were not as meta when I created the build but are more meta now. My Cheryl is for looping but my Nic runs two of his perks, Bardic, and Diversion because he's just for memes. My Laurie runs a full on healing build with OTR for protection from tunnels, but my Sable runs boons, Potential, and either Wicked or Strength in Shadows for protection. My Elodie runs chest perks, my Ash runs a protection hit build. I occasionally swap whatever I need in for a challenge but otherwise, it just depends what I wanna do that session. Usually, I don't win, nor do I care about it - winning is a side effect of having good teammates I can work with and my own skill as Survivor, not of my perks.
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It's nothing pulled from your post, reca. It's just the unfortunate truth about all too many Survivor players, especially older ones who remember the more broken metas. I see people here asking for stuff like old old DH and old MFT back. Both were unfair and should never come back.
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Oh come onnnnn, OG Dead Hard wasn't thaaaaat bad lol.
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"a significant minority, who are relying on tunneling"
LMAO, bruh. Every single match I've played has a hard tunneling killer with proxy camping. I can't take most of these posts seriously. Soloq survivor is a miserable experience and killer is so OP it's boring. (I used to be a killer mian but it's gotten so easy I just play survivor mostly now)
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The reason I'm saying a significant minority is because I can only speak to my experiences and 26% of the games I just recorded had tunnelling in them. So a significant amount but not a majority.
If you have more than that then that's even more miserable than what I go through but I can only speak to what I personally experience.
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What's the kill rate target? +60%?
Seems like they do have a favoured side.
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Feels more balanced to me than a few years ago. Killer perks from back then also got the hard end of the stick. DS and DH are still fairly strong and popular while ruin is rarely used.
I appreciate that your for promoting fun > winning in games as well. Feels like a lot of people have lost that mentality.
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this is a 4v1 survival game with a 60% kill rate ideally. It’s dead by daylight not escape by daylight. They don’t “hate survivors” they balance the game around survivors being at a disadvantage but still having an average of 1 escape a game.
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I play solo survivor about 50% of the time and escape probably a bit under every other match. Its really not that hard.
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60% kill rate is 50% win rate. anything lower would favor survivors.
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Anyone else find it hilarious how both DS and Iron Will as cited in the OP, and a whole slew of survivor perks and a whole slew of base mechanics have been buffed/added recently to be actually pretty darned strong, and yet BHVR is apparently "killer" sided?
Sometimes the us vs. them around here really feels like a Monty Python Sketch...
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I am tired of this "devs favor ~~side" statement. Can we stop this nonsense?
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Bet a cookie that within a week a new user will pop up and make an "favor this side" post
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This is probably the best post on this entire thread.
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no, they probably don't even play this game hence why we're all so ########## in solo q
they prob believe solo q is a beautiful paradise
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Not just Survivor mains.
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It swapped. B4 survivors were entitled and killers victims.
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Like the fact alone that almost every killer runs more or less the same build, which are the meta slowdown perks, should tell you something about the usefulness of other killer perks. Very many killer perks are also just borderline useless. Like when is the last time you have seen a killer run overwhelming presence, septic touch, monstrous shrine, shattered hope, zanshin tactics, terminus,…….
The list goes on and on. Killer perk situation is just as bad as survivor situation. So no I dont think they favour a certain side when it comes to perks.
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I have 3k hours in dbd, but so many of my fav perks got nerfed, idk back in 2020 smth, dead hard, iron will, decisive , i didnt feel like playing anymore. I come back this year to see they kept that party going. At the same time they seem to have buffed killer perks alot. And release some insane anti loop killers. I dont disagree with all of the changes, but i just wanna know from the killers side of things (ive played a fair amout of killer but its nowhere near as intriguing as playing a surv to me)
DS got completely wrong kind of buff even though it was already strong perk, DH was stupidly strong and deserved the condition based nerf, Iron Will has been buffed again?
Do you killers also see things are getting way too unbalanced? Do you win everygame you play? (3 dead is a win yes?)
I dont care to escape trials (but dont get me worng i will sit on a gen any sec i get) ill die for that last teammate on hook, ill get downed for you if you are on your last hook.
i just want FUN gameplay. TEAMPLAY. But bvhr really made sure thats impossible now.
you are struggling from an MMR problem, same as pretty much majority of players who get matched with awful teammates. Unfortunately, that's a problem players created when they wanted faster queues instead of more accurate ones, so i doubt things will get better soon.
Analyze your matches and see how you and your teammates are performing (you can be good, but there will always be at least one THAT teammate).
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All it takes is playing 10 rounds of survivor, especially solo q, and when you see camping, tunneling, and 9 out of 10 matches ending quickly with an 4K win, it's understandable why so many survivors complaining.
After all, survivors always have the bonus to play the game which certifies an imbalance at play.
I think there would be more complaints than they are but the community has a tendency to shame and throw their arms up to say "survivors are just bad" but that is not the problem.
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It absolutely was and may it never come back. You shouldn't have a perk that makes Killers scared to do something as basic as lunge or doing the player's objective, namely in this case chasing. What if there was a perk that made Survivors too nervous to even touch a generator because it would injure them or something? We had that. It was called Eruption and it caused Incapacitated. It punished doing Basic Survivor Gameplay and punished doing their objective. It felt bad. It was bad.
OG Dead Hard was the same issue. It punished doing basic Killer gameplay and punished doing their objective. It felt bad. It was bad.
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What crutches where? The only crutches Killers have literally ever had are the generator perks, which I agree, were too much when stacked together. Over the course of the history of this game, Survivors have pretty much always had their crutch perks for much longer than Killers get them. Every time. Every patch. That only changed with the 6.1 patch and again with recent changes.
Tunnelling is not a crutch, it's an intended gameplay feature. There are perks to deal with it. You cannot call intended gameplay features crutches. Gen control perks are not a gameplay feature, you can play without them. Tunnelling is a basekit tool INTENDED by devs, the same as how pushing gens to be done is a basekit tool INTENDED by the devs. Your argument here is apples and oranges of what we're actually discussing which is perks used to crutch. Basic gameplay just cannot ever be considered a crutch, it's basic gameplay.
Your second paragraph is also moot. Most Killers already KNOW how to drop chase, the macro game, how to apply gen pressure, and do what they need to do, nobody except the most babiest of baby Killers doesn't know how to do all this stuff instinctively. That's just called playing Killer. Applying tunnelling is one of the things that a good Killer does to play the macro effectively when they are perhaps low on generators and have nobody out yet, or when they feel that protecting gens further is a liability; anyone doing it from the start is a baby Killer and you should be able as a good Survivor to reliably handle that. It's time to stop pretending basic, intended gameplay tools are crutches or bad, they are not. If tunnelling were really as big a crutch as you said instead of an intentional gameplay feature, BHVR would have nerfed it by now. Heavily. As of now, the only thing BHVR has nerfed around tunnelling is the most egregious form of it - doing it from the start. It doesn't really need more nerfing. If you're this bothered by it, it's time to run perks or rely on teamwork to deal with it, friend. :) There are several tools to choose from, pick any of them.
I would argue right now the only things that currently need addressing and therefore may be considered crutches are Weave-Franklin's, like one item on Surv side, some addons that should be basekit or addressed on some Killers, and maybe a few perks on Survivor side.
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I don't think killer mains 'hate' survivors, but many are definitely frustrated, and as you've probably noticed in your post, sometimes to the point of just throwing out personal insults. While game stats show killers are in a strong position, many killer mains reject these stats, arguing that killers are still weak and need buffs. I struggle with this because while stats aren't everything, completely dismissing them makes it impossible to justify any changes.
I don't agree with this, but a common belief is that Killers are not good, but that all survivors are just bad.
As a solo main, it's clear that expecting four strangers to play flawlessly doesn't happen, and it isn't realistic, nor do I think they should be required to play without making a single mistake or to only be able to survive if they've dedicated thousands of hours, or money for certain perks to counter playstyles that are not dependent upon perks. But that's less of a DBD problem and more of a typical "Pay to Win" problem in many games these days. Regardless, dismissing balance issues as purely a 'skill' problem oversimplifies the game's complexity. SWF is often used as a defense for certain demands, but just like using Nurse to justify changes, it's not fair to base decisions on the extremes of the player base. The game should consider the majority, not just the exceptions.
To put it simply, I don’t think killer mains or the Devs hate survivors. Killer is the selling point of the game, and it's designed for killers to be in the power role. Perfect balance would undermine the horror aspect, so survivors need to accept that they’ll lose more often. If they don't like it, they can play a different game or switch to killer, it's not meant to be "fair" in a traditional game sense. On the flip side, killers need to accept that they hold the stronger role and aren't as oppressed as they might feel.
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It's not an intended gameplay feature as seen by the Emblem system and all the perks where BHVR gives incentives to not tunnel. Anything that gives a disproportionate effect in a video game for minimal effort is a crutch. Tunnelling qualifies. It's no different than being in an FPS where one gun does 300% more damage than any other; it doesn't mean the player with the 300% gun is necessarily more skilled. It means they're using a crutch to their advantage.
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Huh? Genuinely not my experience as Survivor. No, not even in SoloQ… then again, I run antitunnel and do my best to loop well, so I just don't have this issue much. It's the exception I get tunneled, camped, or quick-4ked, not the rule.
I play as much Survivor as Killer before you even ask. I play both SoloQ and SWF, though more often at least partial SWF. Everyone I know feels similar and is similar. This issue is way, way, way overblown.
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If it were not an intended gameplay feature then the Devs would have removed it. The benefit it gives is as a comeback mechanic.
I agree tunnelling from the word go needs to be made weaker. Tunnelling midgame is fine, you're just upset you got outplayed halfway through when you are all in a strong position with nobody out yet. This is how Killers start snowballs; snowballs are part of the game.
Please get over yourself and just put on the antitunnel perks if this really happens to you all the time. Maybe wear less obviously bright cosmetics. Killer Mains are not all out to get you, and intended gameplay is not a crutch, I am not arguing with you or anyone else about how the game is intentionally designed by developers.
I guess if you hate the game this much that intended design elements are not okay to you? Play something else. This may not be the game for you if you can't handle being targeted by another player occasionally. And yes, it is occasionally, it DOES NOT statistically happen as much as you think it does and I can pull up my other stats post I did here to prove it.
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This is one of the most sane takes I've read this whole thread.
Yes. Killer Mains should accept they are no longer helpless or powerless. The only changes Killers need, and the only ones BHVR is doing, are QoL and basekit addons which are minor buffs to make the character feel better at best. And also that they are not intended to always 4k. 60% is an acceptable rate of kills, why do you always need repeated 4ks to be happy?
Just like Survivor Mains need to accept that yes, the game is intentionally Killer-sided, it's a horror game, Surviving is hard and you may not always escape. 40% is an acceptable escape rate. Why do you need more escapes more frequently to be happy?
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No bhvr actually love survivors. Gen regression is nerfed gen progression is buffed. Bnp perks becoming a thing. Some uncounterable things that survivors have bhvr refuse to fix or nerf.
I would say bhvr is actively trying to make it survivor sided again
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