Does Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance really need the token system?
Hello everyone.
Yeah, I am talking about every killers favorite Scourge Hook, because it is one of the last truly effective gen regression perks left. In the past PainRes could be really nutty when the killer got favored by RNG and got a Scourge Hook right in the middle of the map, easily accessible and the survivors decided to trade hooks.
Back then the regression was "just 15%", but it was unlimited and could very much lead to all the gens on the map regressing to zero. Since then the perk is nerfed quite significantly (and I am purposefully omitting the exploding gen and info part of the perk, that was nice to have but not while most played it and I dont really miss that part) and now it got 4 tokens, one token for each survivor, and hooking each survivor for the first time now regresses 25% max of the most repaired gen.
This was all done before the gen kicking and 3 gen restrictions were put in place and before we got the tunneling epidemic due to the +10s hook time tipped the balance too much in the survivors favor (according to some killer mains, myself included).
PainRes is still one of the most played regression perks, but thats because there is not much of worthy rivals, only Pop. One of the most frustrating parts of PainRes is the fact that you can easily waste a lot of its potential: if you hook a survivor and a gen pops just before you hook, chances are that there is no gen beyond 25% repaired that will be regressed. You could waste one of your 4 tokens on a 2% repaired gen, and you wouldn't even know it.
Also, the doulbe restriction of only four regression events, but all with different survivors, is really, well, restrictive and barely leaves you any room for error or adaptability.
So, here is my proposed change to PainRes:
- PainRes now has a counter of 100% Gen regression. When the killer hooks a survivor on a scourge hook, the gen thats repaired the most gets regressed by a maximum of 25%, which reduced the counter on the perk accordingly.
- If a survivor gets rescued from a scourge hook, that hook stops working as a scourge hook for 30s, so the killer can't hook trade on the same hook indefinitely.
- There is no restriction on how often one survivor can be hooked on a scourge hook, but once one survivor gets killed off, the perk deactivates for the rest of the game.
Thats my idea. Basically, I want more freedom on hooking survivors and more reliability and less wasted potential, but also a hard counter to tunneling. Its an overall buff, but with some give and take and sweets for the survivors. If we can prolong the games with everyone staying alive, I think that would be a big win for everyone.
What do you think?
Comments
-
Given how much this perk is in the current meta I doubt it will get buffed.
If the perk was lacking perhaps you would have a point to change it, but without that I see no hope for a positive change to it.5 -
What you're proposing would be a max possible 200% regression. That's an extra 2 gens survivors would need to complete and way too much of a buff simply to counter tunneling.
Honestly if you wanted to play it like this it would need to be 10% regression per hook to bring it in line with what it currently is. Still does what you want, but wouldn't be quite nearly as busted.
0 -
Huh?`I don't follow your train of thoughts. I am not proposing this 100 regression tokens on top, I meant that the whole perk gave a maximum of 100% regression, but if there was no gen to regress, it wouldn't consume tokens. And on the plus side it would stop working once a survivor died. I honestly don't know how you arrived at this 200% extra regression.
1 -
It is used a lot, but only because there is no real competition. And it really can be extremely frustrating when one of your only 4 hooks gets completely wasted.
I honestly think that with my ideas implemented, the perk would be much healthier all around. This is the kind of carrot that we always talk about, but no one wants to give any thought about. Instead its always the stick, the stick, the stick.
3 -
Nearly every major updates since 7.5.0 have made BHVR's stance on gen-regression pretty clear: if it's too good then it'll get the hammer and/or get a limited amount of uses.
All of what you said is true but, since it's in nearly every games, I honestly don't see any way it gets changed in any way except a straight nerf, despite the weaker & limited regression since 7.5.0 being partly responsible for the tunnelling rise (with nearly every update after that making it worse or doing nothing).
1 -
Ah, I didn't understand what you meant in the first point about the "counter."
I was thinking about using all 8 hooks at the 25% max which would be 200%.
0 -
You're basically suggesting that the perk be rebuffed to 25% when it was overperforming in that state, and allow it to be used for tunnelling again. You can tunnel someone off a hook, and either wait 30 seconds or hook them on a different Scourge Hook, and keep regressing gens by up to 25% at a time.
This just isn't a good idea in anyway, especially considering that Pain Resonance is genuinely the last perk in the game that needs a buff.
3 -
so why is 200% regression broken?
my thoughts on pain res, don't make killer equip the perk, just put it base-kit.
1 -
I want more consistency, in essence he perks max. impact stays the same as it is now, but the instances were you could waste an entire activation of the perk without any benefit from it would be avoided. Right now the perk does a maximum of 100% regression with 0-25% per activation and one activation per unique survivor.
My dream version of this perk would have a pool of 100% maximum regression, with no lost percentages at an unfavorable hook, but with the caveat that you loose all remaining regression token when you tunnel a survivor. I bet the anti tunneling aspect of my idea could be fine tuned, but
I think that this is exactly what the game needs: an incentive not to tunnel, while not making the killer throw the game in the process. But most people are too shortsighted to see the big picture and only hear "a net buff to that perk? Nuuuuu!"
Like when people complained that they ended up with their DH wasted on the ground, before the server updated the hit validation. That was also a net-buff, but it also made the perk fairer for the user and increased its consistency.
0 -
I mean adding mechanics to allow Pain Resonance to continue being used on one single survivor isn't an incentive to not tunnel, it's the opposite.
I don't think you can really incentivise people out of tunneling. 100% extra BP every match wasn't enough to stop tunneling. Either the incentive would either have to be so good it's obnoxious, or it wouldn't be enough to deter tunnelling at all.
The only way to deter tunneling at this point is, well, a deterrent, not an incentive.
(also I'm not sure if you missed it but PR only does 20% regression now, not 25%)
1 -
Pain Res doesn't need a buff, also this would make it even stronger when tunneling someone out. This would not be a healthy change.
And yes, people will dislike a net buff to the perk because even despite the downside of potentially hitting a gen that's low % with your pain res, it still provides really consistent value. Also, even right now it won't consume a stack if there aren't any gens to break now, so you already have some insurance against wasted pain res stacks.
0 -
killer meta perk : nerfed
suv meta perk : basekit1 -
Allowing it to work on every hook would facilitate tunneling.
But having it only work once per survivor does nothing to promote spreading hooks either, as you now want to defend the hook and prevent needing to hook that survivor again, especially as the perk works passively while you complete your main objective.
Unlike Pop which for one requires you to leave the hook to use it, and secondly works on every hook, meaning you get more use out of it if you hook everyone 3 times.
The middle ground would be better. Have Pain Res remove 12.5% for the first 2 hooks of a given survivor. This means you have to allow at least one unhook to get value from it, and you get no additional value for hooking a survivor a third time so tunneling isn't incentivised.
0 -
they have already said that based on the data, tunneling/camping complaints and stats have remained fairly consistent before & after regression nerfs. Enough with the 'we only tunnel because gen regression is weak now'….
0 -
Tunnelling has always been and will always be in the game, the regression nerfs didn't start anything, but just by looking in the forums/watching Youtube/Twitch and listening to people (and/or just playing the game on a regular basis) you can tell it's been getting worse. As long as tunneling isn't either punished or not tunneling is not greatly incentivized (the reason why Pain Res and Grim Embrace are among the most well-designed perks in my opinion) then it will always be a thing. Even then it will never go fully away. People don't tunnel because regression was nerfed, people tunnel more because regression was nerfed, anti-heal was nerfed, popular non-regression perks were completely overnerfed into uselessness (or nerfed the wrong way) in a pretty short amount of time.
People will always complain about tunneling due to it ruining the game, people complained back then almost as much as today (I think the only period where it was really horrible and comparable to the last few months was just after DS's initial nuking, it calmed down after a bit) because it's just as annoying and basically uncounterable for SoloQ as ever.
2 -
well, I'm going to put more value into a staff member who has access to all of these stats saying that post/pre nerfs, tunneling and the complaints remain constant before I consider what I happen to catch on Twitch, Youtube and the likes….
I can't tell that it's gotten worse, I see it just as often as I did pre-nerfs. It's just how some people are determined to play and nothing will change that
I'm not pro tunneling whatsoever, I just don't agree nor does my personal experience support that it's worst post gen regression nerfs. I see it all the same. All I was saying was Mandy came onto a post and said that after checking the data, it looks consistent with pre nerfs
0 -
The problem is if you punish it, you’re effectively telling the killer not to try to win. You’re telling somebody to make sure that all four survivors stay in the match as long as possible and that’s just unrealistic as keeping all of them in the match longer goes against the killers win condition.
1 -
Which is why I also said, about 2 words after, that there should be incentives to not tunnel.
More perks should be like Pain Res: powerful but don't work if the Killer decides to tunnel off-the-bat (asking the Killer to not tunnel lategame if they are getting steamrolled is just unreasonable). Tunnelling (turning the game into a 3v1 asap) will always be the most efficient strategy even if it's boring for all parties involved, but there should be mechanics or perks that make not tunneling almost just as appealing.
2 -
I miss the old Pain Res. I'm still kinda upset that it reworked into an even more obnoxious version because of tunneled, but tunnellers still use this new Pain Res anyway...
I was very happy hooking survivors faster than they could repair generators. Was really nice for Killers like Legion that just wanted to go ham
0 -
No. If genrushing is an issue, don't buff gen regression - nerf gen progression. That's all that's needed. If gens are too fast with gen regression in this state, it is not an issue of gen regression being weak. It's an issue of gen progression being too strong for most Killers to handle.
0
