2024 meta
WoO atleast 2x per match sometimes 4
Yellow to yellow to yellow
fun game so fresh not stale at all
Comments
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WoO is one of the most inoffensive things a survivor can run.
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@bornagain234
'Yellow to yellow to yellow, fun game so fresh not stale at all'
Can only work on specific maps because this perk doesn't work so easily… If you think this perk in this way, you will miss so many useful infos. And predrop works even without WoO so your problem will not solve by removing this perk from survivor builds.0 -
If people are this paralyzed in fear of Windows, why not just run any of the trillion Blindness add-ons? It only takes 1-slot and counters (allegedly) 25% of all their perks, not even including things like Bond/Kindred/etc..
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It is insane how much value it gives but new survivors desperately need that perk honestly.
It’s definitely overpowered whether survivors like to admit it or not, if it wasn’t; it wouldn’t have an over 30% pick rate. I got my first ever four gen chase the first time I ever used it.
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playing the game well = overpowered
i sometimes get 3-4 chases if killer stubborn s chases me on strong maps but this is rare in higher mmr because good killer understand to drop chases that are poor.
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A perk that plays the game for you and removes any need to memorize anything or track where your teammates have been is in fact overpowered.
It literally does everything for you. You’ll never make a mistake and run to a loop where a pallet has been used. You’ll never fail to chain loops together. You’ll almost never fail to set up the fast vault because of it. It entirely removes any weak links from the team.
It belongs in the game but denying it being overpowered is delusional. It has a THIRTY PERCENT PICK RATE. People with 10,000 hours use it. That should tell you something.
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it has 30% pick-rate because like 60% of player are like soloq. turns out, knowing what pallet are used by your teammate is an important piece of information to not making mistakes in the game.
pick-rate indicates the strength of a perk, it doesn't indicate that perk is overpowered but it indicates the perk being optimal. what you need figure out is WHY the perk is optimal. For new players, it is optimal perk because they have insufficient knowledge to loop and keep in mind that this is like 90% of player-base. for experienced players, it is optimal perk because it provides SWF-level type piece information that is required to optimize the game competitively speaking.
different perks have different reasons for why they're optimal. sometimes the reason why they're optimal is because they're overpowered, but sometimes, it is because something is lacking in the base game that the perk fulfills. an example is borrow time. borrow time used to have like 30% pick-rate but now it has a much lower pick-rate. today, borrow time is 2% pick-rate according to nightlight. Does that mean borrow time went from overpowered to balanced? Of course not. Borrow time solved a problematic issue of survivors being put into dying state as they got unhooked and its pick-rate was a result of the game lacking something for survivor. that is how the perk went from 30% to base-kit.
You can talk about same concept for killer perks. Like before Pain res got nerfed from 15% unlimited, it was also like 35% pick-rate perk. overpowered perk or solving problematic gameplay issue?
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It's definitely overpowered without a shadow of a doubt. I just gave 4 reasons on why it's overpowered and those points still stand. Killers are told to stop relying on aura reading perks and use "game sense" to locate survivors. I say stop relying on WoO and use "game sense" to recognize tiles before you get to them, predict where pallets will be in said tiles and pay attention to where your teammates are looping and what pallets have been used.
It is factually an overpowered perk. It literally makes me at the very least 2x better at looping. And when I hit a survivor who uses WoO with the Amanita Toxin add on for Huntress, its blatantly obvious that some of them rely on this perk way to heavily.
The problem with Pain Rez is that it's not overpowered at all on weak killers but dramatically overpowered on Nurse and Blight. Certain killers being significantly better than others heavily skews the view on killer perks. But all survivors are the same so there perks don't have to take into account for that.
Not only would I say it's overpowered but I say without a doubt in my mind; it is hands, down bar none the strongest perk in the entire game for survivors. The only thing that was ever stronger was original Object Of Obsession.
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The problem with Pain Rez is that it's not overpowered at all on weak killers but dramatically overpowered on Nurse and Blight.
Right, but they would not nerf the perk, they would nerf the killer until killer is not overpowered with said perk. for reference, i don't think blight is overpowered but i think most people likely find his gameplay unfun. It is likely same thing that i say for nurse. I find nurse's gameplay unfun for survivor. I don't think nurse is overpowered from statistic winning stand-point but i think her gameplay loop in 1vs1 is not balanced very well for survivor. I think a large reason to why it is not balanced is up/down mechanic giving nurse too much control+her base teleport speed of blinks being too fast allowing for killer favoured situations to occur very easily where the hit is inevitable/very difficult to outplay.
"game sense" to recognize tiles before you get to them, predict where pallets will be in said tiles and pay attention to where your teammates are looping and what pallets have been used.
these type of tips are often not very good because they are saying stuff like "Read your teammate mind". it is impractical advice for a lot players to follow. I don't use windows and i have very good game-sense but admittedly, i'll likely make a mistake like 8 minutes into the match where i went to a pallet that is broken. Not that it matters in a lot of cases because by that time, the game is won or loss in a lot of cases but making mistake like that early on like 2-5 minutes into the match can be game-losing.
Not only would I say it's overpowered but I say without a doubt in my mind; it is hands, down bar none the strongest perk in the entire game for survivors. The only thing that was ever stronger was original Object Of Obsession.
interesting take. I think WoO on average increases survivor's win-rate a lot from low-high mid MMR. in my opinion, the perk loses win-rate value directly proportional to SWF and skill-level of the survivor. If you take balance as absolute where most games are balanced at 0.1%, i don't think it increases win-rate more so than other perks.
in my opinion, the strongest perk in the game is 4 Streetwise with 4 toolboxes. that is just my opinion though.
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I disagree WOO is OP as you can't tell who is using a pallet where if you can't see them and can't tell where they are. It's a huge aid for solo queue in that sense. I find a Commodious toolbox with double charge add-ons and Built to Last to be much stronger.
For Pain Res as a side tangent, I'd prefer it went back to 25 percent each hook but deactivated upon the death of a survivor as opposed to 15 percent each individual hooked.
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Most blindness addons are weirdly situational or just plain suck.
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Yeah but if the opposition is crutching on an auto-pilot perk, then no matter how much the add-on sucks, the Survivor will suck more without their crutch. It shakes out net positive for Killer.
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Good luck getting any of these to activate in any meaningful way mid-chase.
A bunch of the other ones either have short timers, or are kind of situational. The only really good Blindness addons are like Unicorn Block, Amanita Toxin, Cremated Remains, stuff like that.
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You can't know exactly what pallets have been used just like you can't know exactly where survivors are. It's called "game sense'' for a reason. WoO is literally the exact same thing as aura perks on killers.
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Baby Teeth - Fairly normal use. Did they hold Victor hostage? Chase someone else for free 2 person slowdown, able to swap chase if they slam him.
Brett's Cap - Normal use. You chase a Survivor and they run towards a turret, you break it with Tail on reaction without exiting crawler form and they get blinded.
Brass Case Lighter - This is the first with a semblance of merit. This requires a playstyle shift to make portals a threat, most people just place them willy nilly, and this you have to play in a way that Survivors want to close the portals. Place it on hooks, gens, etc. Make them cleanse before doing objectives and you now get a full minute to capitalize on it.
Maiden Medallion - I mean this is on Wesker. If you are losing to people with WoO as Wesker (or any Dash Killer really), I think you have more to learn about the game before worrying about how are you going to get Blindness on them. This is fair and should be a Yellow/Brown.
Homemade Mask - So they are in a lose-lose? Don't dispel the Hallucination and you get a free TP back to hook, dispel and get blinded for a full minute. Its fine. Plus Windows doesn't matter when you have a grenade to deal damage at most loops.
Smiley Face Pin - Normal use. Stab multiple people, chase one of the first stabbed. It lasts a whole minute, so even after you hook them it should still be active on one of the other people and be able to chase and down them in time since they were crutching on Windows in the first place.
Honest question, do you play any of these Killers more than once a year? Ok nevermind, I'll give you Twins for free, but my point is all of these are pretty much normal gameplay, or minimal playstyle shifts that doesn't sacrifice anything to do. All the minute timer add-ons give you time to finish chase and hook, then start the new chase without Windows, and the ~30s add-ons give you the strength to finish the current chase. I mean I play Ghosty and pop stalks for Pressure and the final 5-15s downs, so I have that type of internal clock to track how and when to do things (because you need to account for travel time+sneak path slowdown+how many pallets/window hops they get). Develop that macro skill and you'll be able to use these add-ons no problem!
Edit: 'and most loops' → 'at most loops'
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how or why should I be expected to memorize that teammate dropped pallet x across the map when I’ve yet to even go to that side?
you want me to focus on my objective and my surroundings while simultaneously always tracking the other 3 randoms even when I can’t see them most of the time?I use it sometimes, mostly because it’s rough in solo q because teammates will drop every pallet without even playing them. I’d imagine someone with 10k hours doesn’t need it but finds it immensely helpful in solo q
you can easily fail to chain loops together if you don’t even play in such a manner and instead drop, w, drop, w
someone who is bad in chase isn’t suddenly a god at looping because he sees windows and pallets. If your pathing sucks then I don’t imagine woo is solving that for you
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I’ve never understood this as an issue. “It’s not skillful for survivors to run to yellow” could I not just say “it’s not skillful for killers to follow/run to red”.
Windows provides information about resources. That’s it. The same way that killers being able to see scratch marks, blood pools and all auras of the gens is information about their kind of resources. And as killer you don’t even need a perk to see those thIngs. Windows doesn’t make you a better looper just like seeing the aura of gens doesn’t make you a better gen defender. The success of those perks is reliant on skill.There’s always Zanshin Tactics as well, if you want similar information windows provides.
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I can't believe I'm actually witnessing someone try and defend Baby Teeth and Brett's Cap as useable. They're both situational and even then the timer is REALLY short. It's not like Kerosene Can which has a short timer but is easy to reapply.
Do you play any of these killers more than once a year?
You don't go and chase someone who you stabbed first in the chain, that's not how Legion works. You either get a down with Frenzy or cancel on the last person you stabbed, and unless they mend mid-chase (which is literally never going to happen) it doesn't do anything. By the time you find the first person again the timer will likely be over, or only have a short duration on the clock. I don't think you understand Legion's gameplay loop properly.
I do play pretty much every killer, I'm a variety player. These addons are just not good at countering Windows of Opportunity or really many aura reading perks at all.
I'm not "losing to WoO" either, or even making a comment on what I think about the perk, I'm just making a point that 70% of Blindness addons just plain suck. Blindness is a really underwhelming status effect in short bursts, it has to have a long duration to be remotely good. 60 seconds of Blindness on a relatively niche condition may as well be an empty slot.
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You should be expected to pay attention to where your teammate is looping because
- WoO isn't basekit so keeping track of where people loop is important
- You are holding M1 on a gen which requires you to pay zero attention until you hear a cue
- You can see which survivor is in chase so you only need to watch that one
- Unless the map is an indoor map you can have a general idea where they are looping unless its the start of the game, but even then you can sometimes
You can only fail to chain loops together if you literally don't know how to move in the direction of the color yellow. Someone who is bad in chase won't be god tier but they will be SIGNIFICANTLY better, and it's not even close. Even with bad pathing it still allows you to go from loop to loop and extend chases dramatically longer.
Im also quite frankly tired of everyone acting like every survivor is bad at looping or pre dropping like crazy. I genuinely have not seen a terrible looper since I was brand new to the game. Haven't seen a panic pre dropper in thousands of hours
It's called "game sense'' not "game facts" you use context clues to estimate where people are looping and so on. If im working on a gen with a meg and then she runs to unhook someone in the corner of the map by shack and then I see she is being chased immediately after unhooking. I can use "game sense" or more like common sense to assume that she is most likely looping shack and that shack pallet will probably be gone.
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WoO and overpowered are words I never even considered to be seen in the same sentence.
Bravo 👏👏
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Because for some reason people aren't very knowledgable when it comes to this game. 30% plus pick rate on a not free perk should tell you everything you need to know.
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Pain Res is also a not free perk and also has almost a 30% pick rate, yet you dont hear anyone nowadays complaining about the perk being OP
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I don't feel aura perks are overpowered either.
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I don't think that is the problem for most people. Most complaints seem to state in some way or another, that it makes playing survivor too easy. That's the core of the issue. Even though WoO hasn't really impacted the game's balance, people don't like it because they feel that their opponent is able to equip a perk and turn their brain off, whilst they have to work hard.
This sentiment will prevail until the perk is completely gutted. Even if BHVR added a cooldown to the perk, it would still enable survivors to loop more efficiently. So this sentiment would continue regardless.
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Some people do feel that way; that's true. If the perk doesn't give a huge increase in escape rates when compared to other perks though it's not overpowered.
It's completely possible it is overpowered; the only group that would have the data to know that is BHVR though. If it does, they'll change it. Personally, I feel the item perks along with Built to Last and/or Streetwise are more impactful on a match but there's also a counter to that; Franklin's.
WoO also has Hex: Third Seal and a bunch of other blindness perks as counters as well if people think it's too much of an issue and Blindness also counters Fogwise, Alert, etc.
My main point, however, is that unless it's tied to a much greater escape rate than other perks bring it's not overpowered.
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What I'm saying is that likely, we both have the game time and experience to not worry about Windows. People complaining about Windows are bad at the game, thus these are actually really good picks for them. Its like training wheels, it helps new people, but hinders the skilled users from achieving their max potential.
"You don't go and chase someone who you stabbed first in the chain…" - Etched Ruler, Stylish Sunglasses, and Stab Wounds Study disagree with you (Oblivious 60s after Feral/Aura of self-mending within 24m/Aura for 4s after Self-Mend respectively). Just because you don't play that way doesn't mean other people can't play that way with results. That's what makes the game so fun to me, not playing Meta, but making my own build (for both sides) and getting results while doing so.
I would agree that the sub 60s blindness are bad at countering other aura perks, but 20-30s are all enough for value against someone bad enough to run the perk Windows.
I agree that not all add-ons are good for everyone, but it is important that there are tools for all skill levels of play. The Third Seal is basically a free win on indoor maps against the bottom half of Survivors, and even still great on many maps where they haven't learned totem spawns. That teaches Survivors to cleanse totems, so they start to run Small Game or Counterforce or Detective's Hunch, until they learn where totems spawn without those perks. Then Killer starts to run Pentimento, then Survivors learn to keep totems uncleansed, and the cycle continues until we reach the current maximum understanding of the game. Not everyone is at the peak of the mountain, some people are still climbing, and these help them on their journey. Baby Killers losing to Windows need these blindness add-ons, just as Baby Survivors need their equivalent tools like Windows.
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Yeah, WoO is the most common perk that survivors run. Yet, escape rates seem to be stable. If it's run by the majority of survivors and escape rates are still between 40 - 50%, then it can't be damaging the game's balance.
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That's my thinking about it as well. Also, at 30 percent pick rate I'm sure BHVR has looked into it. If they see a huge variance they'll nerf it but I haven't seen a huge advantage in terms of games won in either my Survivor or Killer games from using it.
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It’s got a 30% pick rate because it’s the only slowdown worth using and it’s alternatives are worse. And you were hearing it was overpowered for about 4 years straight.
And yes actually I hear people say it is overpowered still so that point can be completely tossed out the window.
Like I said Windows belongs in the game for sure, but denying it’s overpowered is absurd imo. I have a hard time thinking of any perk that is better that survivors have. Maybe exhaustion perks but even then that’s questionable.
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High pick rate doesn't equate to being overpowered or being in need of a nerf. Pain Res has a high pick rate yet the perk is strong but still perfectly fine.
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Never said it needed a nerf, new survivors need it to stay aa is. But it’s definitely overpowered though.
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I mean you kind of make a point with the addons, but the Blindness Pin doesn't really fit in to those playstyles very well. You're pretty much always better off running the ruler with either Stab Wounds Study or Sunglasses, Blindness Pin doesn't really fit in all that well at all.
I just want the Blindness addons to be good, or at least useable. A lot of them are so roundabout that you're basically never going to get any value out of them. Turning off Windows for like 30 seconds isn't really going to get you a down, even against bad players.
In the case of the Smiley Face Pin, if it gave Blindness while in Deep Wound and for like 45 seconds after mending instead, it'd be actually useable. Probably not worth running over Mischief + Bracelet if you're trying to play seriously, but it'd be a neat little gimmick that you could feasibly make work. I'd run it from time to time at least, but as it stands it really doesn't have a purpose.
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You hear them say its overpowered just as much as Windows, and both points are equally as absurd. Its high pickrate most likely stems from most people playing in SoloQ (official stats
Having good game can only get you so far, since you may see a loop that has a perfectly fine window that could of been used but because your teammates are more inexperienced they opt to using the pallet, at which case you might only find out until its too late.
Id say Windows has about the same strength as Kindred. They basically make it so you dont make a mistake purely because you lacked information, which wouldnt be the case if you were in a SWF.
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WOO is a perk that closes the gap for SWF vs solo. You can't possibly know if your teammates throw a pallet down, but SWFs always know.
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I understand wanting them to be good, so maybe buff Blindness to cover up the Survivor HUD? That's kinda the problem though, is it would only hinder soloq, as SWF could still say "I'm about to pop the gen for Adren". I'm afraid any buff would be too powerful against those that it already is strong against. This does seem to be the most sensible buff to blindness though.
For Legion's add-on specifically, that does sound like a good buff/adjustment.1 -
I don't think obscuring the Survivor HUD is a good idea, for the reasons you highlighted.
I'm not even talking about buffing the status effect itself here, it's just that a lot of the places it's used, especially addons, it's either too short of a timer or far too situational for one of the weaker status effects.
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While I don't consider WoO a broken perk or OP, I do question when people say 'It's just a learning perk' when at least 2 people in my matches run it at any given time. That, or I'm getting placed with new players all the time.
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there a huge difference between killers in survivors lmfao as killer tracking without aura perk is really easy just a lost art if you know your maps and know where are the crows you can find a survivor really quickly by just spotting witch crow is missing witch most killers now days can't seem to do anymore
for survivors woo comes down to in soloq i can't communicate to my teammate witch pallets has and haven't ben used witch has nothing to do with game sense in general woo give the info that you would get naturally in a swf about the map state in soloq because behavior doesn't want to put in game communication the perk that does this perfectly as a replacement for communication if you want that to change you need in game coms but there's a problem with this you might end up with ppl being toxic and they would have to moderate coms witch i don't think they wonna do in general so you're just stuck in that state unless they do something drastic to change the state of the game to help out soloq in general
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WoO is most certainly overused and needs to be changed IMHO to only reveal windows. You just aren't intended to know where every single resource is. You're not supposed to know the Meg dropped shack pallet; that's part of what makes SWF on comms strong is they can do that. As Survivor you are not intended to know what resources and stuff is on the map, you need to run perks or items for that. You might hate it but the Devs did it that way for a reason.
The other issue with WoO is it encourages really, really bad gameplay in its current state. Another perk could be used for Pallets, why not add that part to Any Means Necessary? That way if you want THIS MUCH free aura read on map resources, you would need to sacrifice two slots and be a dedicated chaser or something.
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im gonna disagree as long a swf is a intended feature of the game knowing resource around the map that you get in a soloq trough a perk is also a intended feature it's already a sacrifice of a perk slot on top of being with a less coordinated team compare to a swf and has already more downside then just playing the game as a swf
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Yeah in general I would be fine with a blanket buff/normalization to have add-on blindness last minimum 60s.
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Not a perk I run. Used to run it but not even that much when I was first starting out.
Prefer not to waste the spot to good ol' throw them PEBBlesFor real though, WoO ??? Usually people that run that dont run to safe loops constantly
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Have you considered that maybe, the amount of communication a SWF has in game through voice chat was never an intended feature of the game? It's here to stay now, but that doesn't mean the game was built around it. You have to play differently versus a coordinated SWF.
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it dosent matter i play vs swf and bully squads i know in general how to deal with them because i've took the time to learn micro/macro with maps/killers/perks/addon properly hell i don't even hook the first survivor anymore out of a few specific big maps i leave him on the floor it add so much natural pressure because i can set up my map by getting the worst out of the way pallets walls ect and get a 2nd survivor down i usually hook the 2nd survivor and the redown the first guy juggle them both the first guy bleeds to death the 2nd guy dies from hook and they have to get off generators really quick and help them or they'll lose the game witch buys me a lot of extra time to do even more damage its to a point i barely run gen regressions anymore for me it's not even a consideration ever since they've change buckle up leaving some one down can win you a lot of games without going for a 4k slug so you can go a hybrid style of downing someone and hooking i think this state of the game is actually healthier but it's less casual friendly because you need game knowledge hance why 2v8 was supper popular it relieved the pressure from the general populations on both sides btw i play both sides
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Only change I'd make is to make it 24 meters instead of 32. It was 20 meters before they buffed it, but I feel 24 is fair. No downsides, just less range.
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According to a lot of people, WoO is a waste of a perk slot. So if survivors love to run a waste of a perk, then the survivor meta must br pretty decent if survivors arent clamouring for some super OP shiny meta perk.
WoO is such a non problem.
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You can give a survivor the tools of Windows of Opportunity, but that doesn't mean all survivors will loop optimally either.
It's more of a "I can go here because it's not a complete deadzone" perk because going down in an area because RNG decided to not spawn a pallet in the corner of a map is frustrating to say the least.
Usually if I notice someone is going from pallet to pallet as killer, I'll just ignore them and find someone else to chase. You can kinda tell and sometimes it's best to go after people out of position rather than someone chaining loops together.1 -
I genuinely stopped reading this text wall after you implied I don't know macro/micro gameplay. Congratulations or sorry for your loss, whatever's applicable.
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Generally speaking, as a Solo Q. player..
- Aura reading perks are the most powerful perks in the entire game.
I'd even go ahead and claim that Better Together is a lot stronger than Windows of Opportunity, the same applying towards Kindred.
I do consider those perks stronger a lot more because they have no cooldowns.And, that said-
Blindness is one of the most powerful debuffs in the entire game aswell.
Situational, sure.. But the auras do provide the vital informations that one can play around, changing one's gameplay from night to day. It's that much efficient, yet people don't call Blindness overpowered.What I mean to say is, the perk isn't overpowered and wouldn't even be overpowered without any cooldown to it.
Also, I do strongly doubt that the plays are being done and efficient due to the Windows of Opportunity. And even if they were and you weren't being mistaken.. It's still better to know that you're being outplayed by a perk than being outplayed by luck, no?
I mean, if a survivor can't know whether the crucial pallet is used or not, but simply happens to run into it and escape you.I don't know about META.
The game got too many killers and perks by that time that no META is truly a META anymore.
Otherwise, we could argue how Hex: Haunted Grounds and Infectious Fright is the META, as it allows for the killer to end the match within this minute with the Nurse, right?
Let us add Distressing and Monitor & Abuse for further information range, and the match is over in that one minute.
The game isn't that simple, hence why Windows of Opportunity will never be META for that reason alone, but one of the best perks to learn the game.0 -
not implying anything but it's true when you know your macro/micro vs a swf with killer/perks/addons/maps and know how to pressure playstyle ain't a issue outside of some small outliers witch is map offering specific i've never implied you don't have some knowledge with macro/micro but i doubt you don't have room of improvement like everyone else witch i don't have this issue playing killer im not roosting you at all btw if you would have reeded the entire thing you've would have seen that i've said
that you need way more game knowledge in general the game has become harder in general on both sides and 2v8 fixed a lot of the issues and relieved a lot of pressure of both sides killers and survs
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