Should shopping for lobbies should be gone from the game?
Do you feel like shopping for lobbies should be gone from the game and the match should start instantly when 4 survivors and killer is matched? Let's say you play 10 games a day, what's at least 10min wait time for nothing. Usually a lot more, because killer saw two flashlights and left, or someone didn't like cosmetics and left and many other reasons people leave lobbies. 10min is basically one dbd match we lose just sitting and waiting. Is it time for bhvr to reach 2024 in this regard too. Bonus points if we would see fellow survivor perks in loading screen.
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I'd be okay with that. At least from a killer perspective, pregame lobby is useless to me because I just ready up no matter what and tab back in when the match starts. This would speed things up so much when trying to get into a match.
It would be a little sad from the survivor perspective though, no more silly pregame chats or talking about names, no more swapping to the same character with randoms.
At the same time, it would be a killer nerf too because the killer now won't know exactly who has what items.
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I don't see a reason ro remove pregame lobbies. But the Killer is, sorry, not forced to run against your aggressive squad if they don't want to. They don't owe YOU in particular a game.
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Lobby shopping is basically dead now prestige is hidden. Killer gets a chance to change their build if they're being hard countered with items, but that's about it.
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I've wanted this for a long time. I strongly dislike the waiting and how sometimes the lobby seems to go on forever due to people constantly backing out on both sides. All the lobby does is delay the match. When I click play I am ready to play. I don't want to sit there for 60 seconds because some guy isn't paying attention. Then another 60 seconds because some guy didn't like what he saw in someone's profile. It's incredibly boring.
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Should people lobby shop? No, but removing prestige has removed a big reason people used to.
There will always be petty reasons people dodge ("two toolboxes? No thanks"), but I don't think it's worth reworking the lobby for those cases. I'd rather the devs focus on gameplay now tbh.
I'm still not sure why it took over a year from "live testing" to "implemented" to remove prestige from the lobby, but they finally made the right call. That also tells me that any other lobby updates are highly unlikely to happen any time soon, even if they wanted to.
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I agree the dodging and shopping around is very harmful for everyone, as it wrecks the matchmaking and leads to the awful backfilling problem so often complained about. Sniffing around for hours played or possible SWF is doing more harm than good now.
Letting their matchmaking system actually function should over time eliminate those horribly lopsided steamrolls. As far as cosmetics and items I think they can be shown still without the ability to dodge, so everything is sped up and the trial starts sooner. Surv perks can be shown as the trial loads in I suppose if that idea gets enough support.
When it comes to the pre-game chat, I'm dubious about keeping it. It's reputation is horrid, and the consoles cannot see or use it anyway.
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Queue dodging isn't a huge problem with prestige hidden, but I think there can be a feature added with little effort that removes the possibility even more. Give a ramping penalty similar to, but independent of and more lenient than, the DC penalty. If you legitimately need to cancel a queue due to outside circumstances it won't affect you, but it will affect people dodging because they see too many default outfits on their team (or vice versa for killers), as frequently.
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this is entitlement, they aren’t bringing cheat codes. You don’t deserve to dodge because you fear you might not win
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Extremely interesting. This is sort of the inverse of a lot of posts I've seen from killer mains here. There was a post where someone was asking "do killer players really find [x playstyle] fun" - not even asking them to stop, just genuine curiosity about whether the playstyle was enjoyable - and the response from a lot of people was "how dare you force me to play a certain way in a game I paid for"
Not calling you out personally, because IDK what your thoughts on this are, but it's interesting to see "I don't want to play against certain playstyles" trending on the same forums. Wide range of opinions here to be sure
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Couldn't have have said it better than this. Flashlight Squads are miserable to play against unless you use up a perk slot for lightborn.
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It's funny because killer players say slugging, tunneling, camping etc are all valid playstyles but then say survivors who Sabo or take hits with perks deserve to be bled out for four minutes.
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Because survivors have too many perks/methods to blind the killer. Champion of light is especially annoying when flashlight squads bring it.
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What is stopping the Killer from just DCing the second they see resistance, throwing the round, etc.? Nothing. What is stopping people who wish to bully new Killers or new Survivors if we have no pregame lobby? Nothing. Why shouldn't there be a place to prepare against a group?
This is a problem that has no end, people are allowed to have a second to prepare and to back out if they're not ready. That's what the pregame lobby is for. The actual entitlement is in expecting people who don't want to play to play with you specifically, then getting mad when they choose not to. Would you rather the Killer or a Survivor dodge before the game begins? Or that they DC mid round ruining it for everyone?
And if it's such entitlement, explain why so many people seem to agree with me on it? Nobody wants to play a round that they know is just gonna lead to frustration on the minimal time they have in the game. Some people only have a few hours to play; why should they be forced to play rounds that just give them a miserable time?
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I don't believe any playstyle that is meant to tilt the other side can be considered fun, I believe those playstyles are basically, just allowed forms of griefing.
Nobody owes you a kill, a flashlight challenge, stuns, blinds, hooks, glyphs, a Mori, etc. And nobody owes you a round just because they queued up and happened to get your lobby. To claim that the other side HAS to play with you just because they loaded in to your lobby first, is entitlement. Plain and simple.
This goes for Killer and Survivor both: Nobody owes you a round if they don't want to spike their blood pressure, and it's infinitely physically healthier for people to… just not take games that look like they're going to be tilting. It's way more mature to forfeit than to force through a round that you know is just going to irritate you. In sports, that is what mature people do when they realise a game isn't able to be won or in board games when it's clear they aren't going against someone who values a good game or a good time - they forfeit.
Why should casuals want or need to play with sweats or bullies just because those people want a lobby? And that is ultimately why lobby dodging can, does, and will still happen in this game. Prestiges were never the reason why; any experienced player on either side can smell a noob or a sweat a mile away. Why would anyone, except those who really do want the challenge, want to engage in a battle in a casual game that they know they'll lose simply because they aren't bringing sweat?
A lot of players don't wanna sweat. They feel forced to, because the other side does. I play a lot of Survivor, but consider myself to main Killer because it's more fun: and no. Slugging, camping, and tunnelling especially from the word go aren't fun to me. I don't have fun doing it. I feel it necessary at times, but I don't have fun doing it. And as Survivor I do not have any fun trying to waste time going for blinds, going for sabotages, and doing stuff that I know just irritates the Killer for no reason other than to irritate them and make them look a fool. Like for example I get utterly zero dopamine from Blast Mine, I don't find it fun, the only reason I run it is for Blind challenges, which I also hate doing because I know they feel annoying to deal with. I don't find any of these nuisance playstyles fun at all, and it BAFFLES me that BHVR keeps doubling down on challenges and changes promoting them, and that so many people do enjoy them. Have fun, I guess?
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I believe at this point both the endgame and pregame chat need to go. They both do more harm than good.
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Can we quit the us vs. them and just agree both sides have really obnoxious playstyles and they are all valid while also being annoying but you don't HAVE to play against them if you don't want to in this casual tag game? The polarization isn't needed here.
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As a survivor why can't I shop around and dodge every nurse with lethal and midwitch offering and tryhard blights with 600 game win streaks? I don't owe them the game and frustration either.
And isn't it the problem tho? See it more on killer side were they are just terrified of loosing a match. "I will get bullied because this lobby have 3 flashlights, I'll get gen rushed because this lobby have 4 toolboxes". At this point why are you even playing a pvp game if you can't take an L like a big boy? You can't and won't win them all. And getting frustrated because your 30 win streak ends. Lord all mighty, you only winning 95% of your games, will you survive? At this point you might as well play a pve game like helldivers on an easy mode, you will win every game. But is it really fun? Have absolutely no challenge?
I myself "win"(3k at least) 80% to 90% of my killer games. But it's infinitely more satisfying to win against a good squad of survivors than to slaughter baby Meg squad. Will you still be playing dbd if all you got as killer would be baby megs who don't understand basic things of dbd? You'd be bored out of your mind 5 games in. Just play 5 games againts the bots, tell me if you have fun fitfh game in winning at 4 gens every time.
I just think it would be a lot fairer if game would star instantly and all the shopping would dissappear from dbd. And as I said, time save would be massive. Playing 2-3 extra games Ina day would be good for bhvr too. I know lobby wait exist mostly to sell skins, but we would see more skins if we would be able to play more games.
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it should exist for the event you get a lobby with a troller you know I’ve had plenty of names I recognize and yeah I’m not playing with you
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Because Survivor side is not designed to have that information. Blame the Devs, not the Killers. Oh, and you CAN escape - it's called ending yourself on hook which a lot of Survivors do anyway. The problem really does sort itself out.
I don't think anyone actually wins 80 to 90% of the time unless they clearly, stomp babies every match and run the strongest meta things. Even then it's very hard. Are you Superman? Because the average Killers I see and read stats on, both from aggregate sites and stuff like Nightlight, sees them winning more or less between 60-70% of the time. Certainly not every round. I myself win about 68% of my matches, are you claiming you are better than most of the community?
Also I am sorry, but I really don't want to be in the same lobby as a troll with a slur in their name. As either role. Let me dodge bigots.
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Killers are supposed to be able to see items and adjust their builds accordingly. BHVR needs to decide if they still care about that balance feature or not, because if they don't care they could remove lobbies and if they do care then they could remove last-second switching. Leaving it in this in-between state is useless and time-wasting.
Lobbies used to have a ping indicator. BHVR removed it, I don't really know why, because sometimes I get into a game and the ping is horrendous and I can't play the match. If ping still showed in the lobby the match wouldn't be ruined for four other players because I literally can't participate, but the game doesn't give me the option to avoid high ping matches, I'm forced to die to get into a match I can play. The ping indicator was actually a very very good reason to have lobbies.
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Ideally, lobbies would provide no info at all. Survivors would just be shown as black silhouettes named "player 1/2/3/4" and that'd be it.
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Being bullied and taking an L are two different things. Survivors escaping immediately after powering gates is one thing. Survivors wasting your time in the game because they want to tbag the entire EGC timer after blinding and stunning you the entire game is another.
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It can be even funnier. I was bled out a few days ago, because another Survivor (which I did not even know, I was not SWFing with them) finished a Gen in the Killers face. So when the Killer basically got their 4K (with 2 Gens left…), they decided to leave me on the ground because some other Survivor did something.
And the same person is most likely one of those "Dont tell me how to play!"-people…
@Topic:
Yeah, lobbydodging should be removed. I dont think that the pregame-Lobby has any meaningful purpose anymore. It is only used to dodge if the Survivor has more than 100 hours or if someone brings an Item. You dont see Franklins (outside of Weave Attunement) as a counter to Items and I dont think that Lightborn for Flashlights is really a reason in 2024 (if you really dislike to be blinded, equip Lightborn anyway, since Flashbangs and Residual Manifest are a thing).
So gameplay-wise there is barely any reason why the Lobby should stay. And it only leads to problems, e.g. those stories of Killers with a low 3-digit number of hours against Survivors who have combined over 20k hours is most likely due to lobbydodging, because a suitable opponent chickened out.
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I'd be happy with locking people into a lobby and keeping them there. Especially now the Prestige is no longer shown, there is no real reason for it. Killers and Survivors should be able to change their load-outs in the lobby, but that's it.
There are probably a couple of problems with this: 1. A swf which may make a mistake in setting up and having someone launch themself into a lobby alone, and 2. People who wanted to dodge may just kill themselves anyway.
If somebody needed to leave for a genuine reason, they can. However, if it was for lobby dodging, then they should be sent to the original title screen and go through all the loading before getting into lobbies again. More an annoyance and time-consuming than any punishment, but this is what people had to deal with when people would dodge anyway.
Basically, if people want to, they still will regardless. Just make sure the wait is imposed more on those who do, than those who are doing the right thing and waiting.
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If you lock people into Lobbies they will just DC more or stand in the corner/under hook and throw.
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So nothing will change?
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Most survivors stay to tbag, you can't really determine from the lobby which ones wouldn't.
And it's pretty much standart killer experience for the most part in dbd, again, why people play a pvp game if it hurts their feeling? Getting stuned and blinded. If it really hurts so much just run lightborn and enduring, bam, most of your problems with a game is cured. Enduring for me personally never leaves my build so I can ignore pallets. And you still have two perk slots for that sweet gen pressure.
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Does it have to be SIXTY ***** seconds??? Nobody ever readies up and it takes FOREVER to start a match.
Also, I heard that the MMR stops working and they just gives you the first available player (to fill in the lobby-dodgers) instead of giving you someone of appropriate skill. The system isn't transparent at all, so we can't prove that's true, but it sounds like something BHVR would do
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You've heard that because the devs have flat-out said that when someone leaves a lobby it backfills and pretty much throws out MMR.
I could swear I've seen a better official explanation of backfill, hopefully if anyone has it they'll post it.
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Nah. I would agree if you couldnt leave the game prematurely by giving up on hook, then sure take both at the same time.
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But at that point, what exactly is the point of the lobby, at least for killer? Then we may as well just go straight into the game after matching 5 players together.
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Ever since BHVR put in MMR, cherry picking lobbies should have been tossed out too. That should have been done at the same time. Never understood the logic to keep it in considering dodging can really bork matchmaking up. Or maybe they fixed it? I dunno—been gone a while.
Don't people just ready up and alt tab out until the game starts any more?
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I've always liked the idea of just using the campfire scene, like right after you boot up the game, that shows survivors kicking back by the fire. I think that's a pretty good distance, and believable if you have some fog and a wall or bush to obscure the killer from view.
I'd like a little interaction too, like maybe the killer could throw something in their direction and survivors would hear it on their end. Or maybe the killer could pick one person to inspect and have a camera zoom in a little more for a better looksee.
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If a squad with matching nicknames, troll skins and flashlights pops up in the lobby, then there is no doubt they're going to tbag throughout the game and at the exit gate. Sorry not sorry, they can get a fifth clown in their company and play against each other in customs because I won't be entertaining them at the expense of my time and mood.
A standard killer experience is supposed to be experimenting with perk builds and how they synergize with the Killer's power, not wondering if they're going to be griefed at the end and have their time wasted by sore winners. People don't play this game to get spat on, but since the game itself doesn't to jack for limiting BM, they try to create a better experience for themselves by not engaging with potential bullies.
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The tribalism in this topic will continue as long as people continue to suggest the killer is entitled to lobby shop for an advantage while the survivors are expected to be completely blind in a lobby and deal with whatever they get.
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And the opposite can work as well since this matchmaking is absolutely ineffective (from my point of view at least) & we can constantly be matched against players under your own level (means total time of gameplay for the instance) regardless the score during your last 10-30 matches…
So lobby shop seems a good thing to avoid that and to have some 'interesting & balanced' matches instead…Post edited by n000b51 on1 -
I don't want to play with players who have a ban history on both Killer Survivor, so the loss of the lobby feature is very troubling. It would be nice to be able to see the ban history of the killer from the survivor if possible.
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He is clearly a survivor main who has never played killer a day in his life. They are easy to spot a mile away, because they boast stats that are ridiculous in a desperate attempt to get their desired outcome.
“I never dodge games as killer and I win 90% of the time.”Now this is a half truth. Because you can’t dodge games as killer if you never play killer.
Anyhow the only people that advocate for removing the lobby are the most toxic of players. And as everyone has pointed out, nobody owes you a damn thing.
I don’t care that you want to run four flashlights with your friends in your games. I care about that 60 seconds that I have to go pee before the game starts. I care about that 60 seconds I have to go to the fridge for a drink. I care about that 60 seconds that I have to go grab a snack. I care about that 60 seconds that I have to be able to back out if I get that important phone call that I’ve been waiting for for days. What I do not care about is toxic players entitlement.
And that goes on both ends because I want to be able to leave the lobby as a survivor as well if I get a real life thing happening. I also want to have time for the other things I mentioned as a survivor as well.
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You can literally do all of those things before you queue up??
If there was a penalty for dodging it would time out before you return from any of those activities unless you do it multiple times in which why queue?
This logic makes no sense.
Then you say that people are entitled and aren't owed anything while feeling entitled to leaving lobbies as much as you want.
This exactly like the Prestige subject before the devs thankfully used reason, the lobby should be a place to derive strategy or last minute prep on both sides, it shouldn't be a screening session or a free for all.
The problem is less important now that killers have to put in more effort to lobby shop now, but it won't really be solved until both sides are completely blind.
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Players should be free to leave up until the moment they load into the match. So I don't agree with locking lobbies or punishing for leaving lobbies. You either keep it as is, or you load straight into the match the moment a fully party of players is matched, cutting out the lobby entirely.
The latter could have technical issues to iron out first, we don't know.
There's also some niche situations where I think the lobby does serve a purpose:
- While it's not really available on console, survivor communication is useful and if there's any chance of coordinating perks before hand, that's a good thing to keep. Without the lobby this is only available to premade SWFs. But, is it used often outside of SWF? Maybe not.
- Some killer perks are very situational and the choice to use them can be informed by the survivors. The biggest culprit probably being Lightborn. Virtually useless unless multiple survivors bring Flashlights. This perk will flat out never be used if you can't see the survivors in the lobby because it's too much of an investment to gamble on.
I'm not claiming these outweigh the negatives of lobby dodging, but they're factors.
Personally I'd rather them come to a solution for backfilling before they make the rash decision to delete the lobby. If lobby dodging didn't affect matchmaking, I can't say I'd have much of a problem with it.
For example, the only time I really dodge lobbies these days is if I'm playing a friendly game of killer and want to match with a couple of PSN players so I can send a GG after the match and share some clips with them. Unlike the in game chat, PSN chat interactions I have are mostly wholesome.
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Those of us on console tend to mess around with our phones since we are stuck staring at that lobby. Or maybe spend Bloodpoints.
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If "shopping" isn't allowed anymore, it's very simple.
If I don't play my main and I see, say, four toolboxes, I'll close the game and play another one of my hundred of games and come back later.
As I said: simple.
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I wouldn't mind if the matches went straight to the offering screen, or the game itself. People don't really use that chat for important stuff anyway. This is what they say:
Nea: Can anyone read this?
David: No.
Dwight: Nea's a ####.
Adam: Jane you look hot.
Elodie: Come to me for heals. I have autodidact.
Jeff.ttv: Ok. ←- proceeds to load in with No Mither.
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Yes,, I am entitled to leave lobbies that I don’t want to be in. I am under no obligation to play a game with any particular person.
The in game block list does not work properly and I am not going to be forced into matches with people that I’ve previously blocked. I’m not gonna be forced into matches with anyone. The fact that you think that should be the case shows me exactly what kind of player you are..
As I said, anyone advocating for this is looking to make the game more toxic and these are the kind of players that the game does not need.
Any online multiplayer game has a loading lobby. You ask why queue up? Because I can. And until that lobby timer runs out, or I press the button that indicates that I’m ready to start the match, it is at my leisure to leave if I see fit. That goes for whether I am playing Survivor or killer. As I said, I am under no obligation to play games with anyone. I have the right to choose which games I play and which games I do not.
Just as every other person has that right. What I nor anyone else has the right to do is to tell someone they MUST play the game with me. You do not have that right whatsoever in any circumstance. It does not matter someone’s reason. They simply might not like the other person. But it doesn’t matter people have the right to pick and choose who they play games with and who they do not.
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This mentality is exactly why they're removing your ability to do so. God bless.
This logic falls apart if I were to ask you if survivors should be allowed to see what killer they're up against.
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This may come across provocative but it’s not meant to be be - I do understand that killers will say they need to prepare. But there are a few things I’ve always found niggling as a concept to this:
- are only killers allowed to prepare against the survivor load outs? For sure I understand things like toolboxes and flashlights may dictate how a killer would want to adjust, but by that logic, wouldn’t a survivor also want to (not saying should) prepare against certain killer powers? For example whole builds can be meaningless against some killer powers or perks. And of course vice versa.
- Supposing I’m a killer and see nobody has items which I dislike, let’s say only maps or even better, nothing. What’s to say they won’t end up going through chests or have that rummaging perk and ultimately end up in a match where the survivors have the very things I would have dodged seeing them with before starting?
- It may be considered ‘scummy’ but if a swf or otherwise did a last second switch out, would I DC? Would you consider that acceptable as a community? Would you see it any different from survivor dc or hookicide during match?
- There are lots of things killers and survivors dislike about the other side in terms of perks, play styles and actions. some of these are pretty uncontentious - teabagging in an obviously provocative way, slugging for the sake of griefing, hitting on hooks etc and whether we on an individual basis think so or not, they are quite clearly gripes the community as a whole have as being perceived to be toxic. Others are not toxic but are severely disliked, killers for sure must hate players who have the skill to perform fl saves consistently and aggressively, those bringing bnp etc. Survivors might hate franklins and noed and auras for example. But are we saying these things are toxic? No. Though we may wish to avoid a game where I know my item might be rendered useless because of franklins or my heal build or for the people useless because it’s a legion or vomit lady.
The point is, we may have to be careful to toe the line between “this is going to be toxic” just because someone has an item or perk or power.
My solution is to hide all items and cosmetics in pre-lobby and then can be shown at end game like prestiges.
For sure there will be many who won’t like this idea but I honestly believe this is the sort fair.
One of the biggest issues if not the biggest in this game is MMR matchmaking not being able to do its job as well as we’d like. And we know lobby dodging contributes to this considerably.
So this would remove all the second guessing and pre-judging and stereotyping. This should lead to more consistent matchmaking and hopefully a healthier game as a result.
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I'm guessing you don't understand what "hypothetical" means?
Also, killer looking at the survivor's equipment is part of the design of the game. It's not going away anytime soon. (You can pray all you want. 😁)
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So this would remove all the second guessing and pre-judging and stereotyping. This should lead to more consistent matchmaking and hopefully a healthier game as a result.
Until players are given less options to BM and waste each other's time in the end, this game will never get healthier. Removing pre-lobby information is only going to fuel the toxicity.
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You have no logic as you are assuming an awful lot. I would not care if survivors were able to see what killer they are going against. I am a survivor main not a killer main.
And I leave more lobbies as survivor than I do as killer simply because I get paired with people who I have played with before, and do not wish to play with again.
The only people that advocate for this are the toxic players. Because they want to be toxic. That’s why they have such a hard time getting lobbies because people don’t wanna put up with their #########. That is the consequence of being toxic. Nobody owes you anything and nobody has to play games with you. Get over yourself.3 -
I have said in other threads that I would definitely be up for removing the ability to bm (or at least explore them).
Survivors teabagging at the gate can trigger an individually affected Blocking of exit for them, teleported back out if lingering for too long etc (not saying these are easy to implement or won’t have a “yes but what about x situations?” But smarter minds than mine can surely come up with ideas and solutions worth testing at least.
Let’s get the level playing sorted first that leads to stereotyping and so on and also deal with solutions for why people have those stereotypes in the first place as much as can be controlled.
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