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SM: Why devs are not honest to us?
If you want everyone to stop playing her, just tell us. Is this seriously balance patch notes for SM or more like "lets make sure Survivors stop leaving games because her power is bad"? This is execution, one sided, biased. Word "balance" is the last thing I would use.
Comments
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Yeah it’s overkill. They need to relook at this asap.
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It's a joke. They put like 4 heavy nerfs, 0 buffs, not even small one. Nothing. They nuke her chase and leave her to rot for a year for what? 4th rework? Might as well disable her for whole year.
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I never loved going against her but this seems too much.
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Unironically me reading the patch notes…I was so gagged and upset I didnt even finish the notes lol
11 -
she didn't really need another nerf but people kept killing themselves so here we are....
Survivor still had PTSD from the orginal merchant and wouldn't give the last iteration a chance. skull merchant cook herself in a way
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It's genuinely upsetting. The whole point of skull merchant was the survivors had to be careful about the mounting effects/consequences of not paying attention. Now they'll have nothing to worry about with a single line sluggishly grazing them because it won't give Skull Merchant incentive to chase (no haste to go to the scanned survivor or aid in a current chase) and the hindered is so miniscule you might as well play Clown or Mastermind.
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I want everyone to stop playing her
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the problem is no one wants to learn counterplay. They say that "its unfair" because you can't avoid the scan lines, when literally you stop mov9ng for an iota of a second. There's also the fact that plenty of killers get way more reliable and consistent usage of their power on a survivor yet Skull Merchant is somehow considered brainless and the worst.
Its ridiculous, people refuse to learn to adapt and instead try their hardest to just strong-arm every killer to be within the same range of "loop for eternity".
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Honestly, if they are going to do nerfs so heavy handed that the killer becomes unplayable they should just remove them from the game until their rework and refund us any cosmetics and money spent on the killer.
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Just take killers out of the game and let survivors have their generator repair simulator. Let them earn 25 blood points per game because there’s no reason to give them more than that. They’re just repairing generators uninterrupted and casually walking out that’s nothing special to be rewarding. When they complain how boring it is 🤷 you did this to yourselves.
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good news for you, you don't need adapt. Just disconnect and throw yourself on a hook at the start of the match. Do it enough and BVHR will nerf the killer. There is your adaption.
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The only thing that could be overkill is the reduced number of drone scan lines. Outside of that no all the changes are fair and I'll be glad the killer will require more actual though but realistically outside of a survivor occasionally getting tagged by a scan line because they physically cannot see the model where it's placed to get a cheap injury nothing really changes on the killer.
Nothing fun about playing against a killer who brainlessly just has to drop a drone and hold W.
Me personally - Yeah I want everyone to stop playing this killer. Boring miserable experience every time. While I don't do it nor encourage it I don't blame my teammates for suiciding on hook / dc'ing and I get it.
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I agree. Hopefully before ptb goes live they will fix her.
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Skull Merchant is one of the few characters where I think their design is so bad that regardless of what BHVR does, they will always leave people disappointed.
- If they cater to the people who like her, the killrates will only go up since more people will just give up. Her design is not fun to go against for most players.
- If they cater to the people who dont like her, nobody will play her since she will get gutted and made awful.
I think they should pull a Freddy at this point and do a completely rework since she is just that poorly designed. I know BHVR said that they would never do something like that again but I genuinely think it would be for the best here.
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🤣gotta give this poster credit for just flat out admitting it.
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I can't believe I wasted almost 60 millions bloodpoints on her, that's just sad :/
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No one has to cater. Survivors just need to actually learn how to use alternate playstyles. You can't go against every single killer in the game the exact same way. But so many survivors WANT it to be that way. The only time a Skull Merchant game has ever been truly frustrating for me is when my teammates DC and/or give up on hook, artificially increasing the difficulty ten-fold.
It's entitlement. Plan and simple. And it's incredibly annoying. It's just extra easy for everyone to jump on the SM hate-train because so many people refuse to learn her counters, accept that some hits are going to be unavoidable as with ALL killers, and finally they are still holding a grudge against the old chess merchant playstyle.16 -
is the counterplay in the room with us?
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This is basically the Freddy approach. The killer is problematic and broken in some ways (although in SM's case not overpowered), so we nerf them in every aspect and put them right at the bottom. That way nobody will play them anymore and the problems disappear.
I'm not saying that's their actual goal but it does have that effect. As much as I hate SM, this is ridiculous. She won't quite rival Freddy for the bottom of the barrel killer but this is really bad.
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I am sick to death of repeating myself. I already made a list of counters in plenty of forums and so has everyone else. I just wrote in this discussion that the main issue with people is that they REFUSE to learn or read the counters. How about looking it up since you want to be cheeky and obtuse.
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I dont hate Skull Merchant because I dont know how to counter her. In fact, I think she is around B-tier in terms of strength (average or so) and has a lot of room for counterplay.
I just hate Skull Merchant because their power design is fundamentally boring considering the infinite well of concepts they could have done instead. In a similar light, it's also why I dislike Freddy. To me, a character's strength does not matter to me if I find them to be boring or have little to no depth to their gameplay.
And for me personally, I find it a shame, I really do. Skull Merchant was a character I wanted to like but I really cannot bring myself to like them in their current state, there is nothing I find interesting about playing as her or playing against her. </3
NOTE:
Since some people seem to think that "disliking" means "they go next everything they see it," Im forced to add this. No, I do not "go next" when I see a Skull Merchant.
As mentioned in my first comment, I know how to counter the Skull Merchant, and I will stick out a match til the very end regardless if I like it or not since my teammates and the Killer are people who deserve the respect of a normal match.
The whole "just go next" mentality is kind of lame. Giving up on hook is lame.
Post edited by Iron_Cutlass on6 -
can you explain how to counterplay the solo queue teammate injuring themselves out of chase to a drone and then you, who is actually in chase, loses because the SM with the giga-haste build magically skates to your location ignoring most loops?
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That's great, so just because you find a playstyle boring, that means the people who enjoy them just don't matter? I love playing as her and against her, but I hate my teammates for throwing a tantrum. I still do my best regardless because literally EVERYONE has characters they hate going against and need to learn how to deal with. I think Chucky is boring because he has anti-loop AND anti-transitional powers, but I still suck it up and utilize what I know to counter him. But then I get thrown into a game where people decide "This is boring" and give up, instead of taking a challenge head on and actually trying to learn HOW to counter a situation.
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predropping and giving a free m1 when you are about to get scanned. you can't even clear your path to pre run because it's meaningless. what else? stop acting like this killer's gameplay and countering it is some superior ability. it's braindead dull gameplay with "counterplays" that is giving free hits or run for your life until she catches up with 10% hinder.
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You very clearly only go by surface level attempts at "counterplay" because that is not nearly half of what you can do.
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I JUST said, look it up to them. LOOK IT UP. I am not going to be the arbiter of "how to do x" to a buncha people who're on the Hate Train. I am not saying it again.
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The problem is really the only thing she needed was for scans to decay eventually. Then she'd be less annoying and it wouldn't be that big of a nerf.
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Sounds like you don’t have an argument to her bad game design and you’re asking people to look up a Pixelbush video when you know for a fact her entire kit was designed to be detrimental to solo queue, somehow more so than Twins.
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And THAT would be fine. Make her Hacked Drones unable to be recalled while we're at it.
That is a completely valid concept.4 -
What's funny is her being weak doesn't even stop survivors from leaving, because she already is never a problem for those who actually try
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I'm sorry where is the actual discussion> Because I think I just told you that you should learn the counters. Nowhere did I direct you to pixelbush, who I find cloying, I told you to learn and accept that not everything is going to be a loop simulator. Gbye.
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She punishes poor team decisions and lack of awareness on her drones. That's why so many people hate on her. They throw a tantrum when she gets a speed up from someone that made a mistake. But the same thing happens if someone cleanses against a plague, just in a different way.
Maybe people would be less likely to cry out in anguish if thet "Beyyooop" sound from her tracker was fully audible to the survivors, that way they get a heads up that she's faster.
But it's pointless. There's always going to be people that refuse to understand or learn new methods. They just want an easy game where the only thing that matters is being just outside of reach at all times.7 -
Literally dodging the argument. You’re deliberately avoiding the concept that solo queue is harmed because of how SM’s kit functions. You CAN learn counterplay to the drones, but it does not apply to anything outside of SWF. I’m not even trolling you, I literally just outlined a scenario where Skull Merchant’s haste is extremely flawed and is harmful since the “counterplay” is out of your control. I’m being critical of you refusing to explain the counterplay because THAT’S AN ARGUMENT.
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she wasn’t weak before. B tier killers are not weak
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Your ARGUMENT is based on something that EXISTS very much in MANY FORMS in the game.
Teammate lets Michael Stalk them and he gets Tier 3.
Teammate cleanses against Plague and gives her corrupt.
Teammates stick close and give Legion 4 stabs.
Teammates heal under hook and or clot together against Cannibal.
Teammates finish gens while Pig uses Jigsaw's Annotated Plan.
And it goes MILES AND MILES ON with PERKS AS WELL.
YOU are refusing to ACCEPT that sometimes your teammates will be a part of a CONSEQUENCE.14 -
If they hadn’t kept nerfing the counter-play perks, survivors wouldn’t be so upset about the Skull Merchant. Perks like Deja Vu, Prove Thyself, Fast Track, Boon: Circle of Healing, Dead Hard, Iron Will, Decisive Strike, and Borrowed Time were all effective counters. It’s similar to when they gutted Spine Chill before releasing the Xenomorph, or how they released and buffed a ton of killer aura perks before deciding to nerf Distortion.
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The constant upending of perks is a problem, I agree. I don't think perks should make or break a character, but the problem is that Survivors are just skin so they literally ARE their perks and thus do actually need to have solid designs and synergy to compare against perks + powers that Killers have.
And I also find all the Aura perks with the additional changes (Like Predator being an Aura perk in the new ptb) to be frustrating.
I play a great deal of solo queue myself, so I know that there is a lot to handle and deal with.
But perks can always be changed. They are gutting the core parts of Killer characters. I know a PTB is just a test, but the idea that this could completely disintegrate a character's ability to properly function against high level players is just miserable.3 -
honestly its unfortunate, i am one of the few people that doesnt really mind skull merchant. i think the community increasingly bandwagoning things instead of testing and giving chances for change is putting way too much stress on this game's balancing and is gonna cause some pretty awful results down the line.
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She was an m1 killer that had a potent mix of Clown's anti loop speed changes and Trapper's loop lockdown gameplay, and what made her strong is she could achieve what those killers achieved with a fraction of the effort...
Despite that, she was not all that strong, and was certainly beatable for a team that actually tried...
Now she is still a mix of Trapper and Clown, but is a sub-par version of both.... needless to say, being a subpar Trapper/Clown is a very sad place to be...
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These changes are gonna ruin her but devs will push the changes to live anyway
3 -
They absolutely are, B tier killers heavily rely on incompetence of survivors, so skills of the players only do so much against anyone who is good enough
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i love your attitude. i wish more player were like you and less of this d/c entitlement stuff. I agree.
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That's great, so just because you find a playstyle boring, that means the people who enjoy them just don't matter?That's just life. Companies adapt to the desires of the largest numbers of their customers. I'm sure we've all had an experience were a restaurant or something similar dropped an item we really liked because no one else was buying it.
Some people like Skull Merchant. Lots of people hate her. BHVR has to deal with the reality of how their customers behave, not how they might want them to behave in an ideal world.
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But I still suck it up and utilize what I know to counter him… …But then I get thrown into a game where people decide "this is boring" and give up, instead of taking a challenge head on and actually trying to learn HOW to counter a situation.
Hey. Guess what. I do the same.
For some reason people have gotten this idea in their head that if someone dislikes a Killer that they automatically "just go next" when in reality not everyone does that, if you went through my post history, youd know that I think people who do it are beyond cringe.
I even stated that I know how to counter her, and I find her to around average to weak in terms of strength, I said this in my original comment. I also hold the opinion that her power is boring and uninspired, and I hold this idea since I thought the Skull Merchant would be so much more than what they ended up being.
That's great, so just because you find a playstyle boring, that means that people who enjoy them just dont matter?
When 3-Gen Skull Merchant was a thing, people would use a similar argument to defend 3- Gen Skull Merchant. Funny thing is, there are people who did enjoy running in circles for literal hours just defending Generators, but that got removed, what about them...
Does a character having playstyles that people like quantify them remaining the same even if it is unhealthy for the general playerbase?
I liked Blight's Hug-Tech, I found it fun to use and fun to against, but it got removed… even though I liked it a lot. While I had the capacity to counter it, a majority of the playerbase did not… and while I still dislike that it is gone, I have the understand of WHY it was changed, and Ive come to accept it as it is.
DBD, at its core, is a casual game, BHVR is always going to cater to the casual audience, and if BHVR is seeing that they are struggling too much, they are going to changes things to address that.
Which brings me back to the question above. And I dont ask this to drag you down, moreso because I was insight into your stance, think of it as the modern DBD "Trolley Problem".
None of this is to say your opinions dont matter. Im just voicing my opinions, and regardless of what I say, it should not take away from your opinion. I implore all players to make their feelings known about the game, since being vocal can lead to positive change, if you love Skull Merchant's design, I encourage you to make Forums Posts and spread your opinion around about the PTB changes.
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To be fair most of Skull Merchants players just summoned these changes. Shull Merchants players usually play with boring playstyle (usually 3 Gen) that requires almost zero skill and that's why people hate to play against her. After the Update Skull Merchant will need to rotate with her drone to acutally apply the effect on the Survivor. I know she is nerfed to the ground, BHVR can add some buffs for her, but with 1 Scan Line she is more skillfull to play as, right?
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You make a very fair and reasoned argument, but the problem with posting about Skull Merchant is every single time it gets derailed by "just delete her" or "just redesign her".
I myself and several other players have tried numerous times to get some kind of discussion going around Skull Merchant, and every time discussions just become the same parroted responses that everyone gives with no effort at all put into "how" to address her problems.
PixelBush made numerous attempts on Youtube to address her issues, I didn't agree with everything he said myself, but I engaged in the discussion... and his videos were shot down the same way, "just redesign her".
"Redesign her"... OK great... Nobody says how she should be redesigned, or even what "redesign" even means.
- What is she not doing that she should be doing instead?
- What should drones do if they aren't gonna injure/hinder survivors? Just revealing a survivor isn't enough.
- What alternatives are there to integrate a character who has drones to scan survivors and reveal their location?
- Should we abandon the concept entirely and not even have drones? That's a bad answer... If we don't have drones, why even call her the Skull Merchant any more? Just make a new killer and delete her...
All discussion around her is useless, because I've always ended up talking to the same 2 people, and everyone else just regurgitates the same useless asinine points...
Even now I'm seeing posts that basically amount to "I'm glad she's dead, and screw anyone who put time and effort into her". Again, no attempt to point to a positive direction or way to improve her whatsoever.
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Very pleasant. May I ask what character you play? How would you find it if that character got this treatment? These changes are not justified. It does not matter how disliked the character is. There are people that enjoy her and they have a right to be heard.
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+1
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The problem of the devs is not providing the full information and instead providing it in random responses in Reddit. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You can consider the current nerf a soft kill switch.
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As a soloQ suvivor i would have changed only the following things:
- suvivors could destroy the drones but it takes 4 times as long as disable them. so survivors can choose between disable the drone short time and completly destroy them depending on the situation.
- no more overlapping drones aka, spamming the area
- base SM can no more recall drones if the is outside the drone radius. with an add on this feature can be re enabled.
rest could stay untouched.
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