What do you think about the upcoming changes?
Comments
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Any justification for the hindered change in skull merchant? While she obviously needed a nerf, or some kinda rebalance, the hindered is worse than bloodlust, what would be the point of using the drones, when not using them is better?
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Happy for most of the changes but I prefer old Zanshin Tactics. The new one is basically I'm All Ears but for pallets.
As I've said in another thread to me I like knowing a survivors resources before they reach certain tiles and sometimes it's easy to get faked out. However having an idea if they are going to commit to a tile or not is useful for me and knowing if there are any other resources they'll likely head to so I preemptively know what parts of a tile to cut them off at.
I primarily use it on killers with projectiles namely Clown and Trickster. I don't like the idea of it working on dropped pallets at all because I feel it's going to create an unhealthy cycle in the game where survivors are revealed for too long on some killers who can just easily walk around thrown pallets or ignore them. Also at the same time how are you going to possibly mind game a pallet a survivor just threw? You both likely know where each other are if you are engaged which makes me feel this perk will be dead on most killers that do not use stealth.
How are you possibly going to mind game a thrown pallet as a Nemesis for example? You don't. You break the pallet and continuing chasing like normal.
Again to clarify - You need to be within 16 meters of a survivor who is 6 meters in range of a pallet to see their aura. You both already know where each other are in most cases and you're playing around a dropped pallet which you will inevitably have to break once you begin chase.
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New deathbound promote very unhealthy play.
When used in a slugging build, it gives an oblivion effect every time you recover a downed survivor. And since there is no hook to use in this build, they remain permanently oblivious until the match is over.
This should not be implemented as is.2 -
The dev note just said scans. It never said claw traps. Those were 2 separate features.
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Really? It just makes no sense. It’s overkill. Too many nerfs.
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The dev note mentions two things that affect the distance and one of them is removed, i think it's safer to assume it's been removed but we'll know for sure on the 17th.
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The Power of Two perk changes are disappointing. They are still only good for SWF. These changes don't make these perks remotely viable for solo queue. I wish there were changes that made the perks usable for solo players. Some of us don't have sufficient enough material to
blackmailconvince friends to play with us.2 -
We will have to see. Given the massive nerfs, it wouldn’t surprise me.
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Skull Merchant didn't need these changes. She was already in a balanced state. The only reason she has a high kill rate is because there are still people who refuse to play against her.
She needs the haste in order to counteract the fact she doesn't get bloodlust because she has to place drones and look at her radar - which reset her bloodlust. The hinder barely even comes into play most matches so the nerf to it is both unnecessary AND irrelevant.
Having just one scan line literally cuts her power in half.
All in all, terrible changes. Scrap them completely and leave her as she is on live servers.5 -
If I could ask, what was the reason behind reworking Distortion? Was it to make it weaker against aura reading perks, to limit survivors negatively impacting their teammates, or both?
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No it isn't lol.
She literally loses bloodlust by using her power. The haste just lets her get something for it. BHVR shouldn't be changing killers to suit people who hate the killer. You people just need to get over the fact she exists already.5 -
just gonna say i love @Peanits
but even as a killer i think distortion should stay the same
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I’m all for the finisher mori system it stops me from seeing the same kill animation 4 times in a match it also helps with seeing the mori too. 95% of the time it’s blocked by the environment maybe this will encourage more crativity with moris since we will be able to see how bare bones and lame some are.
Im not in favour of the distortion change however. It’s fine the way it is. The reason it seems too powerful is because aura reading perks keep being added for every action a killer takes and two more are being added. If there weren’t at least 18 aura reading perks for killers distortion wouldn’t be run as often as it is. I may be inflating the number a bit but you get my point0 -
Do you mean each gen, so it can trigger at most 7 times? It can't be the first one single time a survivor touches a gen in the match, because the patch notes specifically call out triggering multiple times across the match.
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I'm somewhat a fan of the new Quick Gambit. Would love to test it out on PTB.
As others have noted, it is very strong, but it also disables for a whole minute if you become injured. This encourages committing to chases and rewards good killers who can get injures fast and then follow up with a down within a minute. I think "see all teammates" is in general a great thing to move toward for solo and keeping chases away from gens and vulnerable players. Obviously you will be in pain playing against this as a Freddy on the game for example, but that's more of a map issue.
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Mori - Does Iri still unlock Moris on everyone? What if I Mori the first 3 with Devour Hope and give the last Hatch? Should this just unlock the BP if you Mori anyone, not only the final person? Edit 2: How about Yellow Mori give 100% BP if you Mori, Green Mori giving 100% BP per Mori (needs build around Moris to get more than 2), and Iri giving 100% per Mori (doesn't need the build since it unlocks death hook Moris).
Corrective Action -Make this not stack. If 2 people run HyperFocus+CorrectiveAction, they both just don't attempt skillchecks and get Greats all day stacking up HyperFocus.
Blood Rush - Do you have to still be healthy to use this? Is it just meant to be a 2nd Exhaustion perk if tunneled? If it works while injured, good change. If you need to be healthy, it is unusably bad.
Quick Gambit - Might be too powerful. Maybe add a downside that T1 Bloodlust accrues on you 5s faster (15→10s)? That would naturally counteract it.
Lucky Star -Why also get rid of the auras? Just keep the Auras.
Leverage - What about Killers turbo-tunneling? This would just empower them further. Not sure what I'd do with this, but this ain't it chief.
Machine Learning - Maybe drop timer to 45s pre-emptively? This might be crazy powerful, but it also might be garbage map dependent.
Deathbound - I LOVE MY DEATHBOUND AND NOW I LOVE IT MORE!
Blood Echo - Does this set to 30s, or add 30s. I would like it if it adds 30s, not a big fan if this sets to 30s. Often times you currently run this with Mindbreaker to lock in a 60s exhaustion timer, so the CD doesn't really matter.
Hex: Crowd Control - Nice scary effect.
SM - This is the best alternative to actually deleting her (can we still have that option on the table though?)
Edit: Minor spelling mistakes
Edit 2: More thoughts on Mori.
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I like the Twins but I’m honest enough to admit they’re extremely lethal. They were nerfed because guess what? Survivors get to have fun too. Being slugged until everyone dies isn’t fun. It seems BHVR is tackling killers with high DC rates. Twins are one of them. Hillbilly is another, and he was also nerfed.
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The Large reaction of survivor mains still whining even after these nerfs are insane, it proves that it never really was about making SM balanced, or adding more counterplay, it was just to gut a killer. They could have introduced changes that solved ALL of skull merchants issues, and people would still reject it. These reactions to these changes aren't out of a longing for balance, they are out of spite.
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I just want to point out that every single aura reading perk Survivors have is negated by every Stealth Killer in the game. Ghostface is the best at countering perks like these because he has it on demand, but Sadako, Wraith, and to an extent Myers Pig and Chucky also can.
If this means more people choose stealth Killers, who most people find fun to play as and against (Wraith and Chucky not withstanding), then so be it. Maybe it will reduce the number of sweaty Blights and Nurses I see and it may even stealth buff the Stealth Killers because one aura read = one less gen rushing or chase perk that these Killers already can struggle to handle.
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Notice how every single update involving finisher mori is controversial? makes you think /hj
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Highly doubt it'd get increase as what's most painful in 4k is finding last survivors, not hooking (or bleeding out) last survivors
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Way to much aura reading stuff.
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Monkey paw distortion changes reverted but so will the SM changes
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Does Bloodrush activate no matter the health state? It's not really clear from the patch notes to be honest.
So if I'm getting it right, in the next update it should activate for 60 seconds after getting unhooked, you then can press a button no matter the health-state to instantly recover from all exhaustion, is that right?
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I think that's how it works. Doesn't heal, doesn't require you to be healthy, but you can press a button to recover from Exhaustion instantly for 60s after being unhooked, provided you don't do a Conspicuous Action.
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Lucky Break is now kinda meh, it's not the best, but not the worst, but I have a solution!
Make Lucky Break prevent the Blindness from being in a Locker, and now you have a unique Perk that isn't just Iron Will with extra steps!
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I think its the wrong approach. Skull merchant and Twins were always "problem killers" with very low pickrates and considered annoying to play against for different reasons which led to very many complaints about these killers everywhere.
The changes to these killers just seem like an "out of sight out of mind" thing. Just nerf the problem killers so hard that they get picked even less and if they get picked, the player gets smoked by every decent survivor group. Then noone except the few SM or Twins players still complains, which means problem solved, which means moving on to designing the new chapters.
At this point these killers should just be redesigned from the ground up to make them fun to play against and as. Not nerfed like this in hopes they get forgotten somewhere in DBD Limbo like Trapper or Freddy.
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My thoughts are as follows;
Skull Merchant: She would be over-nerfed with these proposed changes, hard stop.
For context, I main SM and am one of the odd players that loves going against her, so I have a fair amount of experience dealing with her from both sides.
1) Reducing the hindered effect feels unreasonable with the Haste being removed outright. Given that the Hindered only applies to Survivors with a fully locked-on claw trap that are also scanned by a drone allows the Skull merchant to end a chase and secure the down on a Survivor that's already made too many mistakes when it comes to triggering the drones. Removing the Haste or the Hindered would be reasonable, but reducing one and removing the other is too much.
2) Removing one of the drone scan lines is wholly uncalled for. The only way this becomes a reasonable change is if the speed of the scan line rotation were to be significantly increased in base kit to compensate.
3) Drones always being in active state is a fair change if, and only if SM's Undetectable status effect upon deploying a drone is increased in base kit to compensate to allow for the ambush attack plays she currently employs.
4) Drones active state visibility beyond 16m is only a concern if point 3 is implemented.—————
Hillbilly: A good step in the right direction. Might require further nerfing down the road, but I'm willing to wait and see on this one.
—————Twins: No opinion.
—————Unknown: The changes seem reasonable at a glance, though I am concerned about how significant the movement speed penalty to tapping the power would be in practice. To the best of my knowledge, Unknown players don't tap the power to mind game so much as they use it to position their Hallucinations where needed. If we had more control of where and when we deploy the Hallucinations, this would be a completely moot point.
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Perks: Most seem fine, especially the changes to Thwak!, Distortion, Quick Gambit and Lucky Star. However, I'm concerned about the changes to Dead Man's Switch and Zanshin Tactics. Others in this thread have already pointed out how over-nerfed the changes to DMS would be. In regards to Zanshin, the changes seem utterly pointless. If you're in chase with a survivor, you already know where the are when they drop a pallet so aura reading, even for 10 seconds, is of little help. Either you're going to spend time breaking the pallet (and being blinded for it), or you're just going to bypass the pallet altogether if it's unsafe enough. Although it's true most killers have little need to know the location of vault and pallet locations, there are a few killers that do benefit from that advance knowledge in chase (looking at you Clown).1 -
The change to basekit Moris does NOT make Memento Moris obsolete, I have no idea what the Devs were smoking with that one.
Leave Memento Moris alone. Make them give BP AND let them keep their effects. WHO was complaining about Memento Moris of all friggin' things?
What reason do I ever have to run one of these anymore?
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?? can you elaborate. I'm a survivor main.
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What do you think about the way the hillbilly sways when walking?
If this goes away, your QOL will improve.0 -
that is her power. her power is… was small amount of haste for long time. it wasn't anything crazy but it was enough for a lot of player to d/c.
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Her power should be her drones and not Haste or undetectable. Also she is far to brain dead to play, you have to do almost nothing to get value. Just press one button and the loop is unsafe. Repeat that until half the map is covered with drones. The haste is too much, but they did nerf her other parts too hard. The haste is not even small, she gets up to 7%, which is ridiculous
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i don't agree. the haste wasn't too much and using speed-up/speed down has some elements of skill to making loops unsafe. her kit was fine but survivor were d/c too much. this is bvhr attempt to reduce her kill-rate and make survivor more comfortable in playing against her.
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Regardless of the developers' actions, some people will be dissatisfied with the changes to SM. Her inclusion in the game was a mistake, even from the perspective of someone who frequently plays as her. Balancing her abilities is a delicate task for the developers. Players will continue to leave games if they don't implement sufficient nerfs or changes. Conversely, if they over-nerf her, she will become an unpopular choice. Achieving a balance that pleases those who play as and against her will be a challenge.
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Some long asked changes along with some interesting ones, besides a couple.
Skull Merchant changes sound really bad since it mentions nothing about upping rotation speed of the 1 scan line drones have.Twins changes, would have to play to see, Victor should take longer to respawn when crushed by survivors but the cooldown from succesful pounces is iffy. For the longest time Victor was guarnteed to be crushed by a survivor after a successfull down, it's been rather good since the change as another Survivor is required to actually be nearby to crush Victor, just worried this change might allow too much time, will have to see.
Quick Gambit really stands out as the "We learned nothing about problematic Survivor perk's". It's rude, but this falls under the same issues that Spine Chill and Made For This caused, where the killer is punished for playing the game. Yeah it has a chase requirement and cooldown but that cooldown activation is affected by literal chance. 5% speed progress for being in chase until hit for all other survivors that can be run on all survivors in the match and it's deactivation being dependant mostly on map spawns for the weaker killers is just going to outright not feel good and probably see a rise in more Gen regression usage, removes the idea of even trying to play hit & run and stronger killer pick rates, just to make up for a permanent time decrease on Generators before you add on anything else that reduces Generator repair times and map offerings. A better idea for the activation would be while being in the Injured state during a chase, same issue of killer getting punished for playing but at least it would be active during the riskier part of the match where you could be hooked instead of when you have an extra hit.
The Unknown not getting the change that has been requested since Day 1 of it's debut PTB, making Direct HIt's at least do something. Literally doesn't have to be extra Hindered, just refresh the Weakened timer or make it apply Hemorrhage or 5 seconds of Incapacitation, it never feels good hearing that direct hit sound and knowing nothing but a very small slowdown has happened. Yet the addition of speed reduction for trying to manage Hallucination placement is apparntly needed. Iv never gone against a Unknown that would keep doing this when they got a chase, since any action would cause the Hallucination to get placed and was generally an easy tell to when they would commit to a shot if they found a survivor while doing it. It's not a removed effect but it does suck that an aspect of planning on the killers end is made less appealing to do because of the change.
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DMS Nerf is bad
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your mmr must be super low to think that
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Killer basically gets nothing. Survivor gets the world over.
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Would it be possible to replace player auras with some variation of killer instinct? Neutral auras are fine. As far as the patch goes, I think I'm gonna put dbd down for a while. Aura perks ruin it on both sides for me. I'm not wasting time and money if I'm not having fun with the game anymore.
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So nothing to stop all 4 survivors from seeing the killer's aura at the start of the game? Thanks for making things so much harder.
A one-sided update, sadly.
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I'm using DEEPL translation because I'm not good at English, so sorry if the text is strange.
There are many problems such as the contents of the finishing moly and the adjustment of SM, but one thing I'm really interested in is the “corrective action”
The new effect says “the result of a failed skill check goes from Good to Great”, but what happens if two people use “Corrective Action”?
Since the tokens accumulate each time a GREAT is made, can't we have an endless loop where A intentionally misses a skill check and activates the skill, the skill is judged GREAT and the tokens accumulate, B misses a skill check and activates the skill, the skill is judged GREAT and the tokens accumulate, and so on?
Also, I have a feeling that combined with “All-out Focus” this combo could be even worse!
Normally I wouldn't worry about this, but I'm afraid that this worry will become a reality since the Darklord's Hellfire cooldown reduction add-on is implemented in such a way that if you add two add-ons, the cooldown will be increased
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If you want to see Mori please see the animation in the Killer Selection tab.
It's doubtful that a finisher can really shorten the time, if you want to earn BP you can offer pudding.
Unless you have enough bonus BP to go out of your way to use Mori offerings in lieu of pudding.
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You are right and it will be a problem.
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That's pretty much how the game has been, final 2 usually hide for as long as possible hoping the other dies so the remaining survivor can get hatch. Killer finds one survivor, slugs them then spends about 4min looking for the last one to stop hatch spawning and get 4k. Makes no difference if it's Mori last survivor or hook them
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Not even a Survivor main, but I can recognize garbage design.
If someone kicked you in the nuts, would you want them to have a good time? Probably not. That's the digital equivalent of what a Skull Merchant pick has been doing to 4 Survivor victims every match. It doesn't matter if it is spite, because it is against someone who was more spiteful to begin with.
SM still has 90% uptime stealth with 0 sound cues, which is still far too powerful. Give her sound cues like every other stealth Killer (Myers/Ghosty/Dredge/Freddy/Onryo/etc.) and she'd be fine here.
Haste was allegedly too powerful for Survivors to have at 3% (although I liked going against it as Ghosty because Sprint Burst was more powerful than MfT against my playstyle), yet she got that and even more. Deleting Haste or reverting MfT would be fine here, although I'm sure most Killers don't want MfT back (again, I liked it as a Killer, because SB was my counter, and this made less people bring SB).
Her 10% Hindered lasts 6s without add-ons (for 60% total), yet Clown's 15% lasts Cloud+2s (for roughly 3s or 45%), and Freddy's 15% lasts similar duration (3s for 45%). 5% for 6s keeps it at 30% total, which is good here given that she has multiple facets to her power that Clown and Freddy can't claim nearly the same level of.
Her traps reset themselves, which can't happen for Hag, and can only happen with an Iridescent add-on for Trapper. Don't auto-reset traps, force a physical reset, then she'd be fine here.
So to recap, she has better stealth than Myers and Ghostface, better Hindered than Clown and Freddy, Haste in excess of MfT, an Iridescent add-on basekitted, and that still isn't even including her bugged add-on(s?) causing triple scans without a delay (when there is supposed to be a 3s delay between each scan). So even if we were to pretend spite wasn't in the equation, she was deserving nerfs in all of these categories for being better at all comparable powers/perks AND stacking all of them. The funny thing is, the Haste and Hindered facets are actually the correct decision to be made here. She still needs sound cues in stealth, and her traps to not auto-reset (without an add-on), then she would actually be fine (if they also fixed the bugged add-on triple stacking on 1 scan).
If we were to accept this delusional statement, then that would simply mean killrates must be at 65%-75% and needing to be dropped is all.
Then again we are getting massive nerfs to Distortion, massive buffs to Zenshin and Deathbound and Crowd Control, so this statement clearly wasn't based in reality. Pyramid Head and Artist will probably run Zenshin every match, and Deathbound was good before, and now its going to be great. I guess 4-slowdown Killers didn't get anything, but that's fine, since they got Pop/PR/Deadlock/Grim all nerfed for the rest of us. So I'd be glad if 4-slowdown Killers never get catered to again if they get my PR nerfed anymore.
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It’s difficult to fully determine how an update will feel until played. So it’s hard to say overall how it feels.
A few days ago I just finished my last item on my P3 Jeff. I’m glad I got to experience Distortion before the change. My next Survivor to play will be Jane. I’ll be using her three perks plus Kindred. I’m looking forward to trying out the new Poised.
PS: I’m glad WGLF got buffed 😊
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I literally agree with every word written here. Great comment.
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give the children that cant play more wallhacks
e.g. we need more perks where we can see through walls
or even better, replace the killers with bots that can just home in on the survivors non-stop
or try this, add all the wallhack perks in the base kit, so killers can try and use some fun perks too
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it should still have limited tokens, but only recharge in chase, not a single use. That is what I and many other killer mains have been saying for awhile.
For the record, I am a Pig Main so I don't even often give the perk a chance to recharge much as it is, but during a chase? That would be good. Bring back the tokens!
Maybe even have it start with only a single token, but can get up to say 3 if a killer doesn't end chases quickly. Really make it a risk/reward for the survivor AND the killer.3
