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What do you think about the upcoming changes?
Comments
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I never said SM didn't need changes, in fact I have been very vocal that Skull Merchant needed changes, but this is the wrong way to go about it. She was absolutely problematic, I don't think a single DBD player thought she should go unchanged, HOWEVER these changes don't even address the (I will admit very good) points you made.
She still have auto resetting traps, she still has the problematic stealth, she still has all her problematic lockdown, and 3 gen features, they just neutered her chasing ability. Taking away the haste was the only positively received change I saw, cause it was the most BS mechanic ANY killer had. The issue is, this won't make Skull merchant more fun to go against, it just makes her less fun to play. Its a lose, lose for both SM players, and survivors.Also, its painting a very broad stroke to imagine every single SM player, plays with the intention of making sure others have a bad time.
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I made a post about all the Aura Reading perks for both sides. You're welcome to take a look if you're interested.
Also @Peanits I think you and all the other devs should take a look. And with the latest PTB where you are gutting Distortion, and then adding 2 MORE Aura reading opportunities for Killers, a bit severe, don't you think?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/425174/to-devs-distortion-and-aura-reading-very-long-post#latest
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Fake a teleport
Skill expression
This has nothing to do with Freddy, honestly. I like almost all of the proposed changes.
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Yippee! :D
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if a player has sprint burst 99%, For the people and We're gonna live forever, a survivor can die under pallet, be picked up in front of the killer during attack cooldown and then killer is pallet stunned not allowing killer to hit the person.
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And the Devs didn't see this as problematic… why?
We really do not need instantly recharging Lithe twice in a chase just because someone got off the hook recently. There's too many times where sometimes the only person a Killer can find has JUST gotten off hook through no fault of their own, and not for lack of trying.
And this is the LEAST problematic buff this update. When are you and the other Devs going to STOP kicking all strong Killer perks in the metaphorical nards, and start giving Killers a means to control matches that now fly super fast? When are we going to see a reduction to perks, items, and tools Survivors ONLY use to genrush?
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Can DS get nerfed back down to 3 seconds? The new Blood Rush is a much healthier anti-tunnel perk than DS, because survivors can't weaponize the perk against the killer like they can with DS.
I keep seeing survivors weaponizing DS against me with aggressive bodyblocking, and I would much rather them use Blood Rush, since that is an actual anti-tunnel perk.
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This question isn't directly in relation to the changes seen this patch, but rather seeking information on what hasn't been in any recent patch notes. Many of us Pig players have been wondering where her RBT has gone in lobby. The beartrap Amanda holds in lobby has been missing for many months now, coming up almost on a year. Many patch notes have passed with no fixes yet. This issue has been well documented, reported in the bug section, and we still have no word on any updates on if/when fixes are coming or any official acknowledgement. Is there any information you can share with us here or at least alleviate some of our concern on this pesky visual bug?
Here is a photo with it in her hand in lobby before and missing from her hand after.
Before:
After (Missing RBT):
Thank you for your time in advance if you do end up responding to this.
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I mean just like Twins, they can't fix bad design. The parts of the bad design that are fixable have (partially) been addressed. The only exception IMO is the single drone scan line. I don't think that is the right move, and I would welcome the double scan back if all the other problems are addressed. As a temp nerf though, I think its fine (as long as it remains temporary).
I think the problematic lockdown is accommodated by the auto-reset. If they add manual resets, then I think that is a two-birds one-stone fix. The problem is too many Killers aren't fun at all for Survivors. I just can't be bothered if a Killer that isn't fun for Survivors isn't fun for the Killer at the same time.
As far as 'every SM is doing this to ruin people's lives', it is hyperbole, sure, but rooted in truth. I don't play Nurse (barring tomes/dailies), because I know how unenjoyable it is to go against her. If I know how much of a bad time I am subjecting others to, and make that conscious decision to still go through with it, then it has to be intentional. The problem is most SM's I go against 'earn the hate' because they bleedout for the 4K. Its hard to think someone isn't going in to be a jerk, when everyone else putting on that same pair of pants acts the same negative way.
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Deathbound may have the unintentional consequence of never deactivating if the killer intends to slug everyone instead of hooking?
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Please just let yellow mori be removed as an offering and the others the same, we don't need to make mori's more rare. People will play dirtier to make sure they get to see them and the fun ones that people like seeing and being a part of like Ghostface's will barely happen or no one will be able to meme about it.
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100% my thoughts
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you think every killer sucks so ofc you think that
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while it is bad design, what I’m talking about right now is there very poor mishandling of balance, rather than fix any of her issues, they decided to gut her in the hopes people would stop playing her, and focus on a rework in 1-2 years. It’s awful and hostile balancing, and I want a refund on my blood points
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Like I said, they are fixing 2/4 of her issues. Now she just needs sound cues in stealth, and Drones to require a manual reset.
If they kept her in as is, I'd want a total refund of all the money I've spent on the game, and this 'hostile balancing' is much less detrimental than the alternative.
I actually put in a support ticket for a Meg skin refund way way way back when they changed her character model, and they said (basically) since it was a live game, they can do WHATEVER they want, and we just have to deal with it, too bad so sad.
My honest advice is quit spending money/time before things get worse, because in my time with the game, it (net) largely has.
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fixing an issue would require her to be in an atleast usable state, not one where her kneecaps are broken, and using her power makes her actively weaker in chase. Keeping the hindered at 10%, adding sound cues to when she places a drone, KILLING THE HASTE, allowing survivors to remove scans via hacking and a making it a single scan line and there you go, a C tier killer, no need for a rework, but this isn’t health design, she was an unhealthy killer but doing this feels like a slap in the face for anyone who invested any amount of blood points into her, I want my blood points back, if they plan to leave her in a near unusable state, while keeping everything that made her toxic was the worst case scenario.
Also, I am sorry about your meg, you deserve a refund.2 -
The problem with her Hindered is that it currently provides 60% total, compared to Clown/Freddy's ~45%. They could either halve the strength or duration of the Hindered, and they chose the strength. I would accept the duration instead of stregth, but both provide the same total value over time.
I play mostly Ghostface, but also Trapper/Clown/Legion/Dredge/Myers/Singularity are among my most common. These 'unsuably bad' Killers aren't remotely that bad, and SM would still be better (than them) even with the 4 categories of nerfs she honestly needs. I can still get 74% winrate before the gens pop, not even counting endgame wins. I actually really wanted to add her to my repertoire, but I also don't play Spirit or Nurse because I hate annoying people to that extreme. Hopefully she becomes not annoying to go against, then I can enjoy her on both sides, instead of not at all.
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see the problem with 5% Hindered is that it comes at the cost of bloodlust, and the thing is, the killer have 5% speed is WAY better than the survivor having 5% hindered, the slow she applies is way too weak to warrant using her power.
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My understanding of Bloodlust is that it only would drop if you throw out a new Drone. If they get scanned from an already existing Drone, it wouldn't drop, say an existing Bloodlust 2. I don't have SM gameplay recorded from the Killer end, so I can't double check (and bots don't help test such a specific circumstance as this); but I'm pretty sure you can still accrue Bloodlust no problem while also benefiting from Hindered.
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you see, normally that wouldn’t be a problem since with 2 scan lines it’s impossible to dodge (which is problematic) I actually like the single scan line because it forces skull merchant players to use… actual skill, not as much as huntress, or spirit, but actual skill in terms of timing and placement of the drone, and timing when it comes to switching directions, it requires actual zoning skills and line ups rather than the spit out the drone playstyle. Removing a scan line actually a REALLY good change, however, due to the single scan line, dodging it is really easy, and every time you switch you reset bloodlust (last I tested, it’s been awhile since I played SM tbh)
This brings me to my issue, she is still absolutely a noob stomper still, they didn’t fix any of the issues that made her toxic, they just made her chase weaker.0 -
I mean any Killer with on demand stealth doesn't need a chase feature as well. Stealth (when used correctly) is an alternative to chase, that changes the formula from 'how much time did this save in chase vs powerless M1 chase' to 'how much time spent taking an alternative path was lost to guarantee a hit'. Many times as Ghosty, I spend ~8s extra for a stealthier route, and it saved me my ~20s for a normal chase hit. That's a 60% efficiency increase of lethality, from proper use of stealth. Heck, even if I'm bad and it only has a 50% chance of success, it still works out over time. I spend 20+8 on failed stealth 1, and +8 on successful stealth 2, for 36s vs 40s of 2 normal 20s chases.
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Mori changes were both unnecessary and unwanted. They're not nearly as bad as the previous iteration, and I'm happy we aren't getting the whole slug situation with ruined DH and Rancor again. But they're still pointless negative changes, and I don't get why mori offerings themselves are being changed into yet more bloodpoint offerings, which will be vastly inferior to puddings simply because they are conditional. A pudding is a guaranteed extra 20-35k - even when a killer performs badly, they'll score near 20k. If a killer nails the round, that'll be closer to the 40k ceiling. So if an offering is only going to give me bloodpoints if I get a 4k, it better be giving me double that.
Just scrap the offering changes and it'd be fine. Let me use an ebony to mori all four survivors, whether I want that because I want to deny DS and pallet saves, whether I want that to show off the new killer's mori to everyone, or whether I want that because I want a survivor to come play Bardic Inspiration while their teammate gets stabbed.
RIP to prop mori kills, sometimes survivors crawling under a table and getting dragged out or getting roasted over a fire barrel was what made the mori great.
Distortion was overnerfed. Changing it so that tokens recharge in chase would have fixed every actual problem with the perk - survivors religiously avoiding aggro all game. The fact that Distortion actually worked to counter aura perks was not a problem.
I don't mind DMS getting nerfed? I guess? Not sure how I feel about this one. Removes room for killer synergies, which is a shame, but at the same time, I won't really miss it.
The perk buffs mostly look good, and I'm excited to try the new Crowd Control in particular, but I don't really get what's going on with Blood Rush now. And Zanshin Tactics sounds overpowered. There's no cooldown on it? Just 10 seconds of wallhacks every time the survivor goes near a pallet? There are way too many killers nowadays who can hit over pallets that can use this info without any opportunity cost.
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if I can be completely honest, as much as I like skull merchant, she could do without the stealth, it’s absolutely not needed, and it’s only there cause the original, the WAY original part of her kit included stealth (for some reason) same as the haste, there is no reason skull merchant needs the stealth, it’s clunky and unnecessary, and it conflicts with a perk that genuinely makes her pretty good.
They need to scrap the haste and undetectable, it doesn’t work, it just doesn’t fit her kit at all.2 -
I mean her entire kit is cobbled together with scraps and duct-tape. That's kinda why we are where we are now. If they actually had a good idea for the Killer beyond 'area lockdown' from the onset, she never would have been a problem. They have scrambled to make her a stealth Killer and a loop denial Killer and a Chase Killer all while keeping the area lockdown aspect, and she just needs 1 focused vision.
The problem is also since she was drawn and quartered in 4 different directions, that you get fans of her right leg, pulling against the fans of her left arm, pulling against fans of her left leg, pulling against fans of her right arm, all cheered on by people who just want her dead, leaving her a mangled mess of poor design. There is no making her whole, since too many people want different things out of her.
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I feel the exact same way about the Moris. It could be me but I’m not seeing a lot of enthusiasm for the new Mori system.
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you know what she could really use? Focus, she does way too many things and it’s overwhelming for survivors, take out the stealth, take out the haste, and focus on the Claw traps and the hindered, focus on rewarding good placement, and good timing when switching, focus on what makes her good, and clean up the clunkiness.
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Live service games suck imo and are the ruination of the gaming industry. Now if days gamers don't own nothing, pretty much every thing we spend our money on can be taken from us in a second. Developers can get away with anything with no consequences bc their game is "live service" I miss the days of the PS2 and 360 man…
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Bringing the radar up to 4.6 from 4.4 to remove the self-slowdown would help in that regard. That way in a sense she partially is getting that 5% haste back in another form. I'm not even against her having stealth, its just everyone with basekit stealth has sound cues other than her, and that is a horrible design flaw. If she had a sound cue, her stealth would be fine.
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I'm with you there. Completed games on release. Plus all the couch co-op games that were good from playing with a friend alone.
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she doesn’t lose speed using the radar?
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The wiki says it slows her down to 4.4? Maybe they didn't keep up with previous patches, and I can't visually tell the difference very effectively. Oh nevermind, they left the original power information on the same page and I control-f'ed 4.4 from memory, my mistake.
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DMS is over nerfed. Skull Merchant is slaughtered.
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DMS got buffed? yeah it only activates on 1 generator, but now its gonna be INSANE with pain res
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Finisher Mori is ass.
Just turn the yellow basekit and THAT'S IT!1 -
forgot to add up to my statement, Zanshin and Predator rework should definitely not reach live servers. Perma aura reading on loops is just nuts
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I don't think there can ever be enthusiasm for such a system. It just seems so wrong, so…Un-DBD. Maybe it's just me, but I believe if it isn't broke, don't fix it.
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i win a lot so probably
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actually i just realized ts because i usually use that perk as survivor
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I think most the changes to perks are great. There are valid concerns about corrective action that should be looked at before it goes live. I'm not a big fan of changes to Skull Merchant. I'm good with making it so the killer can freely mori the last survivor. That just makes logical sense. But I think the green and iridescent mori should still work like they used to. I don't see why it has to be one or the other. These things I don't agree with aren't deal breakers for me though. I rarely play skull merchant or use mori offerings.
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When I'm playing killer, I would be thrilled if all 4 survivors ran Quick Gambit. I can think of a lot worse perks to go up against.
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I’m ok with most of the changes except for Distortion. I always felt like Distortion should have started you out with 5 tokens instead of 3. Needing to be chased now in order to get another use out of it, kind of kills the perk. The amount of aura reads that will be given off you in a match, does not justify utilizing a spot to equip it. I don’t agree with the assumption that players can go all match without having their aura read. Only way that is happening with 3 tokens is if the player was purposely seeking out the killer’s terror radius to keep it recharged; who does that?
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I don't care about most of the changes, but the Mori being changed to once per match needs to be put in the trash. Make yellow mori basekit and then leave green and iri skulls alone.
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Overall pretty solid.
I think it's amazing that they're finally giving some serious attention to the worst and least used perks in the game on both sides. And despite what people think, the Twins and Hillbilly nerfs were warranted as they are both very strong killers, even if Twins are still unpopular.
But SM was nerfed way too hard, Hillbilly didn't need his boots addons nerfed, and some perks will probably be a bit too strong. I get the idea behind the finisher mori and mori offering changes, but the way they are in the PTB now is not good.
BHVR are listening to feedback and have commented on a few of these controversial changes in the forums, and I'm sure they'll fix the biggest issues before it hits live. I'm looking forward to it.
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