Check this match, this will exxplain how terrible killer's match is
This is a solo Q video I saw from the Asian server. The 5 gens finished in less than 5 minutes, the killer got two hooks, and the total chasing time is 73 sec, with the pallets and accelerate perks I believe it's pretty fast. The killer also takes Pop and Pain res, but how could a 20% process reduction slow down the speed?
I believe this proves how crazy surv's upper limit could be and how terrible the killer's life is, the match ends in only two chasings. Survs don't need to know how to loop or cast off chasing, they just need to pull killer from the gen to let teammates finish the rest of the gen. This is even just a solo Q, in most of my games, I get the 1st hook with 3-4gens left. This also proves that in low MMR, killers get 4k not because killers are OP, but cause survs don't know how to cooperate gen rush. In high MMR, killers can't afford any missing M2, they have to end a chasing in 60s, they also can't afford to be disturbed from hooking, even when they are carry person, gens are also processing, and this is why I'm always saying killer need to play Slugging. And with SWF, it could be worse.
In a simple word, when against skillful surv, killers stand for no chance to get even 1k.
Comments
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Where is the match so we can see it please? Not much discussion to be had on this topic from a picture alone.
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Killers stand no chance to get even 1k playing against skilled survivors is just 😂
Do you not realise how ridiculous that statement is and how badly it reflects in your personal skill level? You can literally go and watch any of the numerous content creators that make videos for this game and watch them consistently beat skilled survivors and 4 man SWFs. You can even watch them doing it live on stream so how does a screenshot from a random game in Asia prove this theory of yours?
At this stage gauging by your other comments in similar related topics about survivors being OP it just sounds like you're angry at the game because of your own personal experience losing against SWFs & you want people to agree with you because you think the game is at fault.
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And if you're constantly losing to these teams then you definitely aren't playing at the top level of MMR. I don't even believe a top MMR bracket exists in this game due to the fact that queue times are literally the same for everyone. If it did then you would have massive variations in how long you need to wait, especially when you go over the average MMR ratings and start to drift into the higher MMR brackets with less players.
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The proof is here, in those videos killer get 4k just cause surv are not playing in the right way, in the video, the total chasing time is 73s, and game ends less than 5min, how can the killer slow gens down with only 2 hooks? How can the killer be faster with these pallets and accelerate perks?
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Well I can upload a match from the Spring Invitational where at the comp level a demo 4ked with 5 gens left (i.e. not a single gen was completed). Does that prove the Demo is some S+ tier killer? No, single matches are not indicative of anything about the game.
The killer should lose sometimes, sometimes even badly. That doesn't really prove anything. Dbd is a game where what happens early has a massive impact. If the killer has a bad start the survivors can whip through gens, and if the killer has a good start the survivors are in massive trouble, that's just how it works.
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There is no proof. You showed us a screenshot.
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One match is a data point, not indicative of a trend.
This is also on the game, which I assume someone probably brought an offering for. So survivors bringing an offering, planning to gen rush with toolboxes, and likely just pre dropping every pallet on the map is how they did this. You know what that is? Comp DbD.
The current world record for the game being over is a killer getting a 4k in about 90 seconds. Should we use that one game as rock solid proof that the game is absolutely killer sided if played correctly?
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To be fair, this is a rather extreme case. This map is already a pain against inexperienced survivors let alone against survivors that know what they are doing, which seems to be the case here. Also, on Asian servers they seem to have a very different play style to other servers. They play more stealthy, so that would explain why the total chase time was quite low (although 73 seconds for 2 downs on this map is quite impressive).
Without the video of the match, we cannot really say much more. This might just be a very inexperienced killer getting lucky. Or something else was going on. Either way, this is definitely not a normal game.
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Are you serious? This map full of palates which is the one of the best map the survs.
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The better players should always win. That's how games should work. If one side steam rolls the other however then it's more evidence that the matchmaking system isn't working. I've had countless games end at 4k with 0 gens done. On the flipside, I've had games where all gens get done and the killer has only 1 or 2 hooks. Both are a failure of matchmaking.
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- That's only partially true. Doctor, Sadako, Knight, Chucky, Wesker, Nurse, Legion (with the right addons), and Huntress for example are pretty good at playing around these pallets. So they basically turn this around and make The Game a killer sided map.
- I know how awful that map is, believe me. If you read my post again, you'll see that I called it impressive that this Demogorgon managed to get two downs in 73 seconds of chase time. That can easily be the time for one chase on that map.
Either way, this does not explain how they have so little chase time. The Game isn't a particularly large map (in fact it's one of the smallest) and Demogorgon has extra mobility as well. So finding survivors should be pretty manageable. Unless they have not a single info perk against stealthy survivors, which would mean that their build was ineffective. But even then 73 seconds is very little.
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It reflects that he knows what he's talking about. The content creators who you're referring to use smoke and mirrors, and balloons (because it's 1 big circus), to display how 'good' they are. It's true that you measure your skill as killer by what caliber of survivors you can beat, but all I ever see these creators face is people who lose to like Wraith, Freddy, Pig, Ghost Face, while using meme builds. They might have a streamer mode or smurf or something to make them only face bad players, because their survivors simply aren't competent. They can't even run shack or a long walk jungle gym, they lose on The Game, they refuse to bring in items for some reason, etc.
Believe it or not, it is the game's fault a lot of killers lose. Loops and maps like I've mentioned above exist, which an M1 almost can't physically get you at, and other killers still have massive counterplay there. Gen defence is dead, so every match is a race against time sweat fest. And SWF has remained completely untouched through all the "survivor nerfs," so facing them usually results in an instant loss. I used to be able to beat SWF. Then they got better, or I just stopped facing the bad ones. But mostly it's because killer is the weakest it's ever been. We have a non-meta where anything and everything goes because nothing is good. Using 4 basic (free) perks is now about as good 4 "pay-to-win" perks (because they've all been nerfed).
There are unwinnable matches as killer, they're not as rare as most believe, they happen to the top killers as well as low tier killers, experienced killers as well as noobs. And you would realize all this if you played killer more than once a day, and didn't give a free escape or two every time.
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While I agree, you can kind of see what's happened. The killer got 2 hooks, and he's Demogorgon who is probably one of the better killers for brute forcing The Game and its many god pallets, and the survivors haven't even had to use their medkits yet. There's no way the killer can secure even 1 kill. They can screw up the save and accidentally hook trade like 6 more times, and will still be able to get the free endgame save with body blocks for the 4-man out. I think against this team, any killer would have the same result, except for Nurse.
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Finally someone sees it. A killer does not win at 5 gens unless he's facing survivors way below his level. That's a complete mismatch due to BHVR's botched MMR. I don't agree with the second part though. Good killers have gotten 2-3 hooks vs good survivors all the time. The number of those matches that have been happening to me have been increasing, and I know I'm not getting worse. In those cases, matchmaking is actually working, but that turns out to be a bad thing because the game isn't balanced for good survivors and killers to face one another. When that happens, survivors win 9/10 times. How are you going to get quick enough downs, to power your gen defence or chase build or whatever, against survivors who know how to play every time using check spots, the teleport backwards exploit at pallets, never fail flashbangs saves, and everything else? You can't. You just have tunnel, hope for no counter perks to that, and use Rancor for your second kill at the very end. That's been my solution; other's will not be so different.
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gens are fast and some maps are broken including gideon. they should finally fix those broken maps but i really don't know if you can just increase gen times because only efficient and good survivors can make a match go this way, other especially soloq survivors will suffer from such a change.
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I mean, there is no way to know without a video. I'm all for an open discussion over it but without a video, it's all speculation.
Did the killer get 1 hook at the start and then commit a chase to Nea for 5 gens? Possible. Maybe the killer was AFK for 3 gens and then got both hooks towards endgame.
Maybe the killer wasn't serious when playing or they were straight up bad and missed multiple shreds. Maybe the killer brought The Game and wanted to eat pallets for a challenge.
Without a video to analyze, this discussion really doesn't have much going for it outside of, Survivor Stronk.
I'd love for OP to actually link the video because it could open up far more discussion.
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While it is true that a coordinated enough Survivor team will beat most every Killer, super coordinated 4 mans are pretty rare and their survival rate is only nearly approaching 50% when they are already at high MMR. In every other MMR, they have similar survival rates - between 40-43% - as everyone else. SoloQ Survival rates are lower at close to 38-40% across all MMRs. These ranges sound unfair but are actually within statistical range and probability, they're fine. Every Killer is between 58-65% Kill rate with a few outliers being lower or higher than that. In other words, the game is in fact balanced at 60/40 and is just fine right now. This actually comes out to about a 50/50 shot at a win or loss for an individual Surv versus an individual Killer, for all Killers. Or rather, there is about a 50% chance you yourself will be one of the Survivors that escapes a Killer regardless of how anyone else does. It is expected that you will win only 40% of the time; if you're above that as Survivor you're a pretty damn good Survivor!
The game is slightly Killer sided. It is most assuredly not "too terrible for Killers". That said however… yes, dealing with a coordinated group is very very hard and does indeed put the round closer to 50/50 balance like many people want. At high MMR, survival in a 4 man SWF rises to 48%. That is still lower than Killers, but that implies that Killers are at a bit more of an even playing field - in other words a near 50/50 shot of a win or loss depending. In other words, coordinated skilled SWF > Killer > Less coordinated SWF > SoloQ, and this is how the game is intentionally designed:
- The Killer is always stronger than an individual Survivor in a 1v1 setting,
- Teamwork is the most powerful thing in the game and coordination is every single Killer's weakness as a result - not even Nurse can beat good enough coordination,
- Info is king because it shaves off time,
- Killers by necessity are balanced to be able to kill most of the Survivors at least 60% of the time, to keep them aconsistent challenge FOR coordinated teams.
- Therefore, the game is necessarily slightly Killer-sided, unless you have very strong coordination, in which case the game becomes a near perfectly balanced 50/50 where the skill of each side is more of a determining factor, alongside the Killer versed and the map RNG.
- Because of this, you must approach the game from both sides with a casual mindset - because otherwise Killer is too easy and Survivor is too hard.
This is, again, intended. This is what the Devs intend for the game. Lose the sweaty comp mindset and realize… it's more fun to be casual than tryhard.
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If the match lasted 5 minutes and the total chase time is 73 seconds, what was the killer doing for the other 3.5 minutes?
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The problem here is that survivor teams who make no mistakes will pretty much always win. Killers who make no mistakes can still lose. At highest skill levels, it's about killers having to take advantage of survivor's making bad plays. If they aren't, then unless the killer is playing nurse\blight, it's over before it begins.
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I don't think games with zero mistakes exist. No one plays perfectly. There's also alot of RNG and other variables at play in a match. So I personally don't put much stock into "zero mistake" hypotheticals.
High MMR is, in my personal opinion, an anything goes bracket. The people in that bracket are there because they use the best perks, items, add ons, and probably every dirty trick in the book. If that means having to use Nurse or Blight, then so be it. Their opponent will likely come at them with the same energy they are bringing. If they can't compete then they shouldn't be there, or the simplest answer is they aren't in that bracket and matchmaking has failed them. I am happy to never enter that bracket for as long as I play, but I don't understand why it gets brought up so much on this forum tbh. Most of us aren't there and never will be there.
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That's a match in one of the most pro-survivor maps.
It only shows the map should be reworked to stop overwhelmingly favoring survivors.
That's not exactly news.
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Its pointless to even argue or give advice on the forums. Some people just can't comprehend that they just aren't as good as other people when playing a certain role in this game. They just want someone to validate their claim to make themselves feel better about losing to better players.
The excuses and replies are always the same.
You must be playing baby survivors.
You obviously aren't playing at high MMR and I am.
You can't do that with X killer I just proved it by providing my experience.
Look at this random video it shows how OP things are.
Content creators just smurf or make things up (even though you can literally watch them doing it live).
Basically it just comes down to people looking for someone who agrees with them so they feel better about losing. Of course the game has OP perks and unbalanced maps and strong teams. It's a game that's been out for years that's constantly evolving. It's also a game that many people have played for years and are just good at the game because they have sank ridiculous amounts of time playing. I don't understand how some people can't fathom that you're going to have better players on both sides with significantly more experience than them and lose badly every now and again. That doesn't mean other players have the same experience as you.
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OK, check the video if you can enter the link :
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1V2421Z737/?spm_id_from=333.999.0.0&vd_source=7813bb2841dfbdd1fa6ab1a84835e524
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Post the video link, you posted a screenshot.
If the if the killer chased for 73 seconds and only got 2 hooks then he should have dropped chase to pressure the map, not overcmitting and losing all 5 gens.0 -
In the Asian server, survs has a "formulation play style". They will take Sprint Bust, when they hear the heartbeat, they start running to pull the killer from the gen, then another team member will continue the gen when the killer leaves the gen. The chasing one doesn't do any loop, he just keeps running, drops pallets whichever he sees, and runs to the corner to map to lengthen the killer's hooking, which they called a "marathon". The whole chasing will cost the killer around 1min. Then, they will take hook-related perks, DS, OfftheRecord, BabySitter, and Reassurance to counter tunnel to keep all members alive.
With this playstyle, even killers get 1 hook every minute, the gens will still be finished around 6th hook, which killer can't get a kill without the tunnel. It's pretty easy for a soloQ to carry out.
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I understand what the OP is saying. I also play solo queue on the Asia server, and I often see matches like this. Of course, not all matches are like this, and since I’ve never played on servers outside of Asia, I can’t speak to the solo queue experience on other servers. But yes, I do often see solo queue matches where gens get done very quickly, just like the OP describes. Chasing the first survivor for only 60 seconds can result in 3 gens being completed.
In Asia, players are more tolerant of tunneling and camping compared to other servers, but even with these tactics, killers find it difficult to win against skilled solo queue players. And it’s even tougher against SWF.
Of course, that’s something every player who has spent thousands of hours on this game has noticed. Since the patch that made hook stages 70 seconds, these issues have become even more pronounced. I’d love to see statistics for each server and MMR bracket.P.S.
I’m a player from Japan, and I’m glad to know that players from China and Korea feel the same way🥺1 -
Yes, that's what I'm saying… I find most US server players enjoy more in chasing and spend less time on gens, they don't realize how fast gen rush could be if they save time on hanging out. Also, experienced surv will take over teammate's gen on purpose.
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It's not surprising at all tho.
I keep saying for God knows how many times - the gens are way too fast, when survivors are actually sitting on them. This is why I keep saying: - "You can't remove gen regression perks, coz the game's (gens speed) pace isn't optimized for no regression".
For years almost all high mmr content creators were telling that C and B tier killers can't keep up with "current" gen speed.
And that Killer's objective takes much more time than Survivor's objective.
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I agree that perfect plays throughout isn't feasible. My point was that when it comes to which "side" has the most power over the other, the survivors winning or failing almost entirely falls into them making mistakes. Survivors have every tool available to them to always succeed over the killer. It's shortcomings that cause failure states. A killer, on the other hand, can play absolutely perfectly in theory but still lose.
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So I watched the video, though the framerate was not great.
Map is on the Game, strong survivor sided map unless the killer can slow it down until the pallets are cleared out.
The demo gets a down and a pain res before a single gen pops, not a bad start.
Then he chases the survivor the video is following into the strongest room, spends about 30 seconds there trying to mind game and only gets a single pallet, when the survivor gets out of the room the Demo drops chase.
Even though he dropped chase, Demo runs right by a gen with about 50% completion and doesn't kick it or otherwise defend it by doing something like putting a portal down (it doesn't look like he even used portals in this game and just ran from place to place). He'll run by this same gen about 30 seconds later when its at like 95% done and again not kick it. I have no idea what the Demo's strategy is at this point.
At 3:10 he drops chase again. Over the next minute he will get two injuries on two different survivors, before resuming chase with the survivor this video is following.
He then commits to that chase, doesn't really use his power, and takes a minute to down the survivor, losing two mind games in the process.
Overall: It's a tough match for demo against four seemingly skilled survivors, not sure if the talking is SWF or chatting with viewers. And while its hard to say for certain without watching other perspectives, the demo seems to make a few key errors. He engages in mind games, some which have no realistic chance of success, wasting time. He commits to chases at strange times, chasing survivors into strong rooms, and then letting them go when they are in weaker locations. He wastes time to hit two survivors, commits' to neither, and then commits to a healthy survivor far away from the gens.
Then there are the luck elements: the demo gets a tough map and loses out on the 50/50 guesses we see.
Basically, there's nothing in the video that is really shocking from a Western perspective of DbD. The survivors got on gens, they won the 50/50s, they had a map in their favor, and either the killer made mistakes or he had a plan that he was never really able to implement.
The only real surprising thing to me was how little the Demo made use of his powers.
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There's no such thing as "killers who make no mistakes," just "killers who haven't realized what their mistakes were," at least as far as human players go.
Same thing with survivors, there's no such thing as "survivor teams who make no mistakes," just "survivor teams whose mistakes you failed to identify"
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I really have to question whether the MMR is “botched” because as it has been stated, this happens to killers, but it also happens to survivors where you just get a killer that you can steamroll.
Personally, I think this is by design. I don’t think it’s botched. I think it’s on purpose. Think about it. You have a couple of rough matches or you have some really close ones where you either draw or barely win or you lose. Then, the next thing you know you have two or three matches, where you’re just absolutely tearing it up. Kind of lifts your spirits when you’re doing well. I think that is intentional. I don’t think it’s a mistake at all. I think the developers know how this game can go for either side, and it has been implemented into this game that after so many normal matches (against people in your skill bracket) it throws you a bone for a few matches.
It happens far too regularly for it not to be by design. And when you get those matches where you get completely steam rolled, I think you were just the chosen one for someone else being tossed a bone. It would make sense that this is the case just considering the frequency.
I have many more games that are competitive (meaning, it can go either way, and that tells me that the matches that I am in are where I belong) but consistently I get a handful of matches as killer or survivor that are just one sided (some in my favor, and some not in my favor) that always seem to occur after a normal match stretch.
I can go 10 games where every game is definitely winnable by either side, but then I have three where it’s just an absolute slaughter and we steamroll the killer. Play another 10 normal matches then I’ll get two or three with a killer that absolutely destroys us.
I think it’s by design. I think the swing is by design to give everyone that dopamine high from winning decisively. Sometimes it’s your turn and in the matches that are really rough for you it just means you were chosen for someone else’s turn.
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Personally, I think this is by design. I don’t think it’s botched. I think it’s on purpose. Think about it. You have a couple of rough matches or you have some really close ones where you either draw or barely win or you lose. Then, the next thing you know you have two or three matches, where you’re just absolutely tearing it up.Lots of problems with this.
1: It would be difficult to code while still ensuring matchmaking happens at a reasonable time frame. On the killer side it might be doable by adding something like 'if kill rate over 5 games < 25% set MMR - 200', but on the survivor side you'd need to ensure not only does that survivor get an MMR drop, but he retains survivors on his MMR level. So you'd need not just an if statement for the survivor on the losing streak, you'd need to be finding 3 other matching survivors with the same condition and/or some type of special tag where really good survivors got bumped into helped roles.
Matchmaking would take a lot, lot longer than it currently does if that were true.
2: Going in spurts is absolutely, completely normal. If you have a win rate of 50% you should be expecting streaks of good or bad results. Having a pure win/loss/win/loss over a period of time would be more unlikely.
3: It misses the snowball nature of DbD. Things like the early game are very important. If the killer gets lucky/wins some 50/50s early, the game will swing heavily in his direction, if the survivor gets lucky/wins some 50/50s, the game will swing in their direction. It doesn't mean the match wasn't even. Given the game design, blowouts are not that unusual.
4: There's lots of things MMR can't tell. It doesn't know if a survivor is sleepy, drunk, distracted, doing a tome, etc. It doesn't know if a killer normally plays non-sweaty but has suddenly switched to their sweatist builds because they are trying to do a win streak. It doesn't know if a player is particularly good or bad against a certain killer or good or bad on a certain map.
5: I've seen BHVR deny it. Can't remember their words choice or I'd post it.
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This sounds like a SBMM system problem. You're getting matched against survivors who are way above your skill level even after getting stomped repeatedly. This is because the SBMM system is effectively non-functional.
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I will never undestand why Killers here post games of a Killer clearly playing bad (with the sample size of 1 game, this Demo might have 4ked all other games this evening) and think that is any proof.
If I post a video where I go down in three times in 10 seconds each against a Freddy, this would not mean that Freddy is too strong and people here would clearly not take this as any proof (aside from me failing hard).
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