Has Survivor Meta Truly Changed?
February 27th 2023
May 3rd 2023
October 24th 2023
December 13th 2023
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August 26th 2024
September 15th 2024
I played 9 matches back-to-back and this were the perks being used.
I am asking as an entitled killer main what has truly changed in terms of survivor perk usage?
Do you notice on the killer side the variety of perks being used in comparison to the survivor side?
I used perks not on the meta list intentionally.
Comments
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The only reason Xenomorph did as good as she did was because the map was Lampkin Lane a Map with almost nothing in it with every window blocked off.
As for the Trapper match our score shows how fast we gen rushed him and made it to end game only for the one who escaped to never cleanse NOED or try to pick anyone off of the ground.
Keep in mind all of these matches were solo matches.
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Comparing Survivor-Meta with Killer-Meta is not really working, since whenever a new Killer is released, the Meta can change, simply because some Perks are better on that Killer than others.
And well, whenever Survivors get a somewhat decent Perks, Killers try their hardest to get it nerfed as soon as possible. So it is not really surprising that the Survivor-Meta consists of mostly old Perks. And we all know that "changing the Survivor-Meta" for Killers only means that all Perks should be nerfed hard and Survivors should have to use the garbage which is left.
But overall, I think both Killer-Meta and Survivor-Meta are really stale and the only reason why it might seem to be a bit different for the Killer-Meta is because of invidiual Killers (e.g. if a lot of Nurse-Matches are posted on Nightlight, you wont see as many Sloppy Butchers or Surges compared to other Killers).
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It doesn't change because if we get good perks it gets gutted quickly.
BTW, you have a lot of killer rotations, wow. It's same few S tier killers for me everytime. xD
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Survivors come with perks, why not make a build for each survivor based on the perks they came with?
Why does everyone have to use the same perks on every survivor?
Everyone could say those perks are all the perks survivors have but what about the perks I used in all 9 matches? I used something different based on the perks Rebecca came with and escaped most of the matches without DS, DH, OTR, UB, BT, Adrenaline, MFT, ect.
I have used a bunch of perks that are slept on for each survivor and still escaped.
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When I played with an SWF Nurse, Blight, Spirit, and Huntress were most of my encounters as well because we won most of the matches we played.
That is mostly what you see at the highest of mmr the best vs the best and nothing else because nothing else is capable of reaching the top%.
It is very rare you see a lower tier killer at the top%.
And if you get that solo then you are probably just better than me.
I am a killer main after all lol.
But like I told the other person:
There are a lot of good perks being slept on, on the survivor side that is, its just no one ever uses them or even tries to go outside of what people call the best perks.
4 people running the build I used in the screenshots would destroy most killers in the game if used properly.
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Why should Survivors have to play worse than they can?
I mean, Killers also come with Perks, why dont I see Killers play with their awful Perks? Because they dont want to make their Builds intentionally weaker.
Why should Survivors do that?
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As a killer main I do use the perks the killer came with, I make a build that makes the most sense and would be the most effective with at least one perk they come with or at least has synergy with the power the killer comes with.
I think the community on both sides have kinda been brainwashed with all the meta talk instead of thinking for themselves but to each their own.
I think on the killer side people that just throw the same build on every killer are just going based on what they are told instead of actually knowing what suits the killer they play the best and I think it is the same for the survivor side as well.
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Survivors have 4 main ways of winning the game:
- Making the gens go faster
- Extending their chases to give more time for the gens to get done
- Doing altruistic saves to prevent hook states being taken (similar to extending chases, but distinct enough to be separate)
- Frequent resets to whittle away at generators
The 3rd and 4th only are dependable in a highly coordinated setting or under specific circumstances. It makes sense that survivors would continue using perks that contribute to one of those four ways of winning the game - usually one of the first two, though occasionally setting up the circumstances to do one of the other two. Moreover, it's not survivor players fault there have consistently only been a few perks that help do one of these four win strats.
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So, why not just use gen perks only on the survivors who come with gen perks?
Why not use chase builds only on the survivors who come with chase perks?
Using the same build on every survivor is just very stale to me personally.
Like Rebecca use the Hyper Focus build for skill checks.
Dwight use a gen build that increases gen speed.
Lara Croft bring a build based on Finesse.
Sable bring a build based on Generator charge reduction.
Don't just use the same stuff on every survivor and call the game boring when you have other options.
Some options might be better than others. If this game is truly a party game, then why do people only seem to care about bringing the best of the best? Sounds like a lot of competitive mindsets if you ask me.
I play Dracula and I have two builds that feel right and make sense on him.
1: Wretched Fate + Plaything + Pentimento + Dying Light.
2: Human Greed + Franklin's + Weave Attunement + Hoarder.
That is two different builds based on the perks the killer came with will these builds beat a top% coordinated 4 man SWF? No of course not but it can win a lot of matches and changes up gameplay.
Just like on Freddy I use Game Afoot + Rancor + NWO + Remember Me + RPB + BB and I can keep up with SWF's but I based the build around at least one of the perks he came with and what he was intended to be played as.
So far that is 3 different builds one for slowdown, one for information, and one for end game.
It makes the game more fun when you are not just throwing PR + CI + DL and one other perk in every build slot on every killer.
The more skilled killer players don't just rely on those perks every game for every killer because they have an understanding of how to play the specific killer.
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Survivors come with perks, why not make a build for each survivor based on the perks they came with?That would be an entirely different game. I'm not even sure it could feasibly done, but if it was they'd probably need to start over with DbD 2 if that was their idea.
It might be a better game, though I imagine it would significantly magnify the balance issues.
Everyone could say those perks are all the perks survivors have but what about the perks I used in all 9 matches?So I just got out of a thread with you where I mentioned it's unclear what your overall point is.
Are you saying that BHVR should try to vary up the survivor meta more?
Or are you saying that survivors are making a mistake by being over reliant on the so called meta perks?
Or both?
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For the absolute vast majority of perks "the best of the best" … is just really not even a handful of perks. Not equipping at least some of them is pretty much equal to intentionally throwing, stacking the deck against you to the point where it's near impossible to have fun (safe for if you go for a very specific niche build and just play until it works and that's fun to you even if you have to wait ten or fifteen matches for that to happen). That's why people use the same perks over and over again; in an attempt to not be miserable.
Why not have surv specific builds? Well, because that basically tells a killer who to tunnel/target specifically. It would also leave quite a number of survivors with absolutely nothing going for them. You'd just see the same five or six survivors all the time.
And as someone else has pointed out: The killer meta has to be more varied by definition - because killers have vastly different mechanics and add-ons. If a perk is used by all killers that generally means it's busted.2 -
I mean, if YOU want to do this, this is totally fine. But dont expect others to follow it. The majority of players either use the Perks they like the most or the Perks that work best.
If you want to put restrictions on yourself, e.g. using a Perk or Perks from the character, this is fine, but you should not expect others to do the same.
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Yeah, I felt like I could do the post a bit more justice by remaking the post.
I think both BHVR and the community should vary up the survivor "meta"
I think also that some people just hear this is the best of the best and it may not even fit a playstyle they are good at.
Some are better than others in the chase.
Some are better at stealth and gen rushing.
Some are a jack of all trades.
I think people are using what everyone says is the best instead of using what they are best at.
I see survivors all the time who bring a full chase build and can't last 10 seconds in the chase.
I see survivors who can bring gen perks and fail skill checks.
I see people who can bring Kindred but can't coordinate a hook save.
So why not bring a builds based on what you do best? Or a build based on a perk the specific survivor came with to get rid of staleness?
There are a lot of slept on perks the survivors have that no one uses just because they are not considered a top 10 perk.
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Stale metas do suck. I started in perhaps the stalest meta ever, the DH/DS/UB/IW+ meta. It was monolithic, went on forever, and it was awful. Old DH was perhaps the most busted meta perk ever and it was unchanged for years. Hopefully, nothing will ever be that stale and predictable ever again. The current meta isn't anywhere near.
But for each character, killer or surv, to stick with their own perks? That's just a non-starter. The reason is that most perks suck, and many character have no useful perks at all. You set specific loadouts for characters, and most of them are just going to be dropped. Very few of the characters I play most most have perks I actually like to use.
Beyond that, they'd have to change the lobby setup if they did such a thing, because killers could alter their loadout based on the survs they saw in the lobby, or just dodge certain survs altogether. Not knowing for sure what anyone is running is part of DBD.
The game is taken far too seriously by far too many (as a "comp" game it's a joke), but some level of meta is just going to have to be accepted.
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I never told anyone what to do.
I asked why no one does.
I don't see how you call changing up playstyle a restriction.
As for the comment you made about perks that work the best:
I think that is very subjective… Most see Pain Resonance as a Top 5 Perk while I personally think it is a trash perk considering it is only good if you get good hook spawns and otherwise gets no value, but that is just me. Sometimes it works and sometimes you don't even get to use it but to each their own.
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I am playing with survivior builds recently, bringing no meta perks (I use only dead hard) and my escape rate is definitely lower. I can feel that.
So yeah, people definitely will make their life better with stronger builds if they go against s tier's with best possible perks.
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As a killer main even I agree that Nurse, Blight, and Spirit need to be toned down for the health of the game.
Killers can't have anything fun because of them, and survivors bring some bs as well because of them.
I see the problems on both sides of the game I really do, I am not a biased killer main.
But to be fair DH can do a lot for you.
In my screenshots I did not get the scores on just doing gens I am not the best nor the worst survivor in chase, but I can do a little something if the game doesn't send me to Lampkin Lame. But I did get more escapes than deaths while being solo without chase perks.
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I may not agree with you on everything but I'm with you on some of this. I don't do it quite this way exactly but I do set my survivors up with their 3 originals plus whatever 4th perk I choose. Then I setup Bill with what is a meta build to me. That way if I have a few bad games I can just switch over. This is provided I don't just switch to killer.
I remember way back in the day I would play survivor perkless but that was long before most of the changes and the MMR introduction.
Most of my killers I setup with specific builds I feel suit that killer. One or two perks I may use on multiple killers.
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Do you notice on the killer side the variety of perks being used in comparison to the survivor side?
I mean, let's use the Nightlight data, because that's a much wider sample size and therefore more reliable than single-player anecdotal data, and look into this, because I do actually think there's some bias here.
I typed it all out, comparing perk placements to their previous entry on the list, where "New" is a first appearance, and "New+" is a perk reappearing after not making the top 10 last time.
I didn't count Feb 23 as New, as we are looking for differences in the already established meta. 6 new perks are introduced to the top 10 (Deadlock, Bamboozle, Pop Goes The Weasel, Friends 'Til The End, Brutal Strength, and Hex: No One Escapes Death), and of those 6 4 remain in the top 10 by the end of it (PGTW, Bamboozle, Deadlock, NOED), officially replacing Sloppy, Eruption, Call of Brine, and STBFL. However, none of these are new perks, with all bar Deadlock having been hard meta at a previous stage in DBD's lifecycle. The only new perk to make this list is FTTE, which joins in Dec 23 and is then removed in Apr 24.
Of the perks that remain, Pain Resonance and PGTW establish themselves in Dec 23, and do not leave the top 2 spots despite both receiving nerfs. Corrupt, BBQ, and Lethal all battle it out for 3rd, 4th, and 5th starting Apr 24 (though Corrupt and Lethal are already there in Dec 23). Nowhere To Hide happily sits in the 6th spot, and has done since Dec 23, with Bamboozle, Surge, Deadlock, Sloppy, and Noed battling it out for 7th to 10th place. Of course, there's the occasional new perk (FTTE making a guest appearance, and Brutal being in there for some strange reason), however by the end of it there's a very clear trend you can see.
The killer meta overall has not changed by much since February 23. 6 perks have entered the top 10, with only 4 remaining there, meaning it would be entirely possible to construct a build out of top 10 perks in Feb 23, and still use those same top 10 perks in Sept 24 (for the record, these are Pain Resonance, Lethal Pursuer, Corrupt Intervention, BBQ and Chili, Nowhere to Hide, and Surge). Out of those, an easy build I can see is to slap on Pain Res, Corrupt, Lethal, BBQ, and go to town on a high-ish mobility killer.
Therefore, I would clearly argue that the killer meta has not seen substantial change since at least February 2023, if not long before then.
[FULL DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT RESPONDING TO THE STATE OF THE SURVIVOR META, THIS IS SAYING THAT BOTH ARE AS BAD AS EACH OTHER; I AM MORE THAN WILLING TO PERFORM THE SAME ANALYSIS FOR THE SURVIVOR META IF PEOPLE ARE SO INCLINED]
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It's important to add that survivor perks can be deployed 4 times per match. Therefore their effects must have stronger limitations than killer ones.
Old DH is one example. One dh was no problem. 2 was manageable. 3-4 was awful for a lot of killers.
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I have to admit I am someone who pretty much uses the same build across all my mains (and most of my characters)
I do sometimes swap in flashbang though.
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I do actually!
Huntress lullaby is rarely missing in my builds.
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I think both BHVR and the community should vary up the survivor "meta"On the survivor, true. I think there are a lot more valid perks and build styles than people go for. I pretty much always run Deja Vu, but I try to vary the rest of my build up.
On BHVR's side. I think this is trickier. I suspect one of the reasons it has lasted so long is BHVR is overall happy with the balance level. The exhaustion perks work pretty well without being too strong (some arguments on lithe) - you can really only take 1 for the match, 2 in what feel more like meme builds. Bond does basically what it should. Iron Will just popped back in.
Looking at deja and adrenaline. Each perk seems to serve a pretty core function, deja allows breaking 3 gens and adrenaline makes it more worthwhile to take riskier plays toward the end games. I think both of those are healthy.
DS and Resilience. I've never understood why DS is so high compared to other anti-tunnel perks, maybe the new blood rush will change that up. Resilience seems to accomplish a good risk reward gameplay, but its not one I run so I don't have a strong opinion on its balance level.
That leaves the big question of windows. Some people argue its essential for new players, some will say its a crutch, and some people say its the best perk in the game. Knocking this off the meta would be interesting as that would, by itself, one of the biggest overall changes to the game they could do.
Basically: I think BHVR is trying to vary things up somewhat by buffing some of the less used perks to make them more appealing, but this is made more difficult by them, seemingly, being happy with how the game plays out on the survivor side with the meta perks.
I think people are using what everyone says is the best instead of using what they are best at.True. I'm not sure how it could be changed, but yes, I agree with this.
So why not bring a builds based on what you do best? Or a build based on a perk the specific survivor came with to get rid of staleness?Generally agree, but if you wanted to get better at something, you'd probably need to bring the perks to actually practice it.
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Because survivor mechanics and survivor characters are completely decoupled. The only differences between survivors is aesthetics, so people play as characters that match what they aesthetically like. The moment survivors start having abilities that can be complimented by perks, the same way killers can pick perks that enhane their power or shore up weak spots, then you might have a point.
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“Why does everyone have to use the same perks on every survivor?”
Because unfortunately those perks are the most consistent ones. Just like how killers use the same perks that guarantee value. No one wants to sit there and use something like flip flop when you might get value out of it in 1/20 games
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After the iron will buff, I’m back to running the old DH/DS/UB/IW because they’re still the best perks for escaping imo. Unbreakable is the only perk I sometimes swap out for something else so for me almost nothing has changed since 2020
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Does it really matter? I've always avoided meta perks and purposely don't play any in the top 10 - I even play perkless at times when I'm in the mood - but there's alot of rubbish survivor perks that even I have no desire to touch. Let people play what they want to play. There's no separate queue for competitive and casual players (Chaos Shuffle is probably the closest we'll get to splitting the two groups, since very competitive folk are unlikely to enjoy that mode) so we have to learn to live with each other.
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This comment doesn't sound fair, my friend. Survivors have complained about new perks that were released and joined the killer meta, such as Undying.
This isn't something only killers do.
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i dont play killer very much but when i do i always see perks like those. i am very new i just got the game this summer are these perks really that common?
i wish more perks were better so we didnt always see the same perks for so many years. y dont they do something like change some of the gen persk and make them do more than only gens? or make some boons into invcoations? i like sables perks and i think there shoudl be more invocaton perks. the spider one and boons are fun to use. :)
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The other main reason you don't see as much change in survivor perks is because many of these perks are in response to killer actions, and usually base kit actions.
The discourse on these forums tends to go something like this:
If you don't like being slugged, you should've brought unbreakable.
If you don't like being tunneled, you should've brought DS and OTR.
If you don't like being found first, should've brought distortion (until next patch).
If you don't like being camped, you should bring kindred and your teammates need to bring reassurance (including you, just in case).
Pretty much all of these are base kit things the killer can do, and with the exception of face camping, the only counter is perks.
Then, when those perks are used everywhere and define the meta, we get posts like this asking why survivors are running the same things every game.
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Does this seem a bit more familiar to you?
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So you play well with terrible off meta perks and escape most games. Good for you, I guess?
I need all the help I can get, so I think I'll stick with Sprint Burst and Resilience, thanks.
I think the meta is looking stale whichever side you look at. The top ten perks are all pretty much the same on both sides and appear to have stayed that way for months.
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I love being tunneled especially when you force the killer to stop tunneling you or lose the game for trying to tunnel you.
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Thank you I am soo glad to finally see someone admit it.
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"Terrible off meta perks"?
My Hyper Focus build is far from terrible lol you get a full team of this with toolboxes and the match will be over in 3-5 minutes vs most of the killer roster.
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It is still a casual game. SBMM just means more balanced matches. That is more fun whether or not you want to play competitively.
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It's a terrible perk if you can't hit great skill checks and Stake Out is only good if you get a Wesker. Besides, you don't get to pick what your team brings into a trial as a solo player, so it doesn't matter how good the build might be for a SWFs kitted out with the best tool boxes.
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Undying is a really bad example since release-Undying was ridiculous. I wrote "somewhat decent", which I would count something as Reassurance. There are miles between Reassurance (even PTB-version) and Release-Undying when it ocmes to strength.
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Your comment is right and fair. However, there is a disparity here. Of the top 10 survivor perks, 6 have been in the game since launch (Resilience, Adrenaline, Iron Will, Deja Vu, Sprint Burst, Bond). Deja Vu has had meaningful buffs in the past couple years, but the others are similar to how they've always been. Now let's look at the other 4 in terms of their release date:
Windows of Opportunity (June 2018; buffed to its current state in October 2021)
Lithe (May 2017)
Dead Hard (July 2017)
Decisive Strike (October 2016)
The meta itself has shifted a bit as a result of broader game changes, changes to other formerly meta perks, etc., but survivors haven't had any strong new perks that weren't subsequently nerfed into oblivion in a long, long time.
It's a different story for killer. Only 1 of the top 10 perks has been around since launch (NOED), and it's down at 9th on the list. Let's look at the release dates for the remaining perks:
Pain Resonance (November 2021)
Pop Goes the Weasel (June 2018)
Corrupt Intervention (March 2019)
Barbecue & Chili (September 2017)
Lethal Pursuer (June 2021)
Nowhere to Hide (November 2022)
Surge (September 2019)
Bamboozle (June 2018)
Deadlock (September 2021)
The meta is a bit stale for killers too, but especially when you consider that it takes some time for the playerbase to unlock new characters and perks to the point of them showing up on this chart (i.e. don't sweat the lack of 2023/2024 stuff so much), there's really no comparison. Just about every single year there's been a perk or two good enough to enter the top 10 in usage.
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To be fair, the original iterations of perks such as Circle of Healing and Made for This were just as ridiculous as Undying was and, like Undying, they had to be changed. This isn't killer-exclusive, friend, it never has been.
As for Reassurance, it may not have been as strong as other perks, but from what I've seen I don't think its PTB version was healthy for the game. If there were complaints about it, I believe they were justified.
That is true, but I'm just pointing out the fact that this behavior is not exclusive to killers, both sides can and sometimes do complain when a new meta perk releases.
If you ask me I like the Old DBD meta, we could have that in the game and I would be okay with it.
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To be fair, dbd probably could get away with a lot of the old meta with some of these base changes that have been made over the years
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The PTB version of Reassurance wasn’t really overwhelming though. Killer mains said survivors would use it to hold each other hostage. And I say killer mains specifically because survivors were generally pretty happy with it as it punished camping. Anyway that is why it was nerfed.
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DBD could get away with almost everything in the old DBD, imho.
This is subjective, of course, but I just think it was a better game.
Well, all I know from it I read here and in the wiki, I wasn't around for that PTB. But from what I have seen, it did not seem healthy for the game.
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Ehh some good some bad, but to each their own
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Variety is in such a great spot that there's nothing you really need as Survivor, so why not just run WoO or Bond and call it a day?
I enjoy being able to run whatever these days, unlike when I started in 2021. Not taking BT was basically considered selfish and soft throwing
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Just out of curiosity: how far back, my friends, would you three be willing to go, if you had to?
Like, the game will be reverted, there is no other option. Which version do you choose?
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Depends on if we can take things from now back with us. If we couldn't we'd say around when demo came out in general (exact times vary between us from undetectable upgrade on yr 3 to pyramid head release but we agree that after demo the spark started to fade for us with periodic relights)
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Stranger Things release? Honestly not a bad choice. My beloved Freddy had already been ruined, unfortunately, but everything else was still pretty good!
I would choose Freddy's release, of course. It has everything I could possibly want!
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This is so backwards. When was the last time a new killer released, and the killer meta changed as a result? Knight, with Nowhere to hide, which was like 7 killers ago? It'll change is response to a killer perk nerf, but that's more a case of "What's the next least bad thing we can use?" as opposed to survivor who are like, "Oh, we lost broken Buckle-Up/For The People. Time to swap DS/Unbreakable back in." The survivor meta is 7 years old because it's never failed them before and hasn't been changed really at all. The "killer meta" is still gen defence after 7 years, out of desperation, and you can see that in how people think Pop/Pain Res is adequate gen defence, when it's really not and they're better off using chase or endgame perks.
If killers are trying to get it nerfed, more often than not it's because it's broken. Windows and Distortion, I agree to disagree with them getting nerfed. But the rest of the stuff which is just guaranteed health states, extra chases, uncounterable blinds and stuns, etc, needs to go. I'd say the Belmont perk that gives you a pseudo-instaheal off of 2 chest searches is one of the healthiest survivor perks in a long time, because the reward is huge, but it involves risk and time waste, and isn't just free like everything else. Even Inner Strength and Overzealous, at least they had to break totems. Wire Tap, Blast Mine, Flashbang, you just get from doing your objective, they have no telltale, and theoretically can be used infinitely. Nothing on the flip side, on killer, comes close to that stuff.
So I'll gladly take new and interesting survivor meta perks, but the old ones have to go because apparently with their current design they can never be bad. They're still being used despite some nerfs. And you could say that for the killer side, except that they do nowhere near what they used to as a result of their respective nerfs. Get hit by DS, basically a 4th chase to kill the same 1 survivor, even when not tunneling. Get hit by Pop, doesn't even regress the gen 1 piston, whereas before it at least did 1 and lasted 15 seconds longer.
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True!
I'm sure someone will "disprove" your argument with this, but I do see perk variation among survivor players. It's just that, unlike killers, they're varying up their builds for fun. Killers are varying up their builds because they have no clue what's good anymore, since everything is bad. The survivors have the choice of destroying killers with meta perks, or without meta perks because they don't even need them. Hence the screenshots.
And even not buying into that, we still see the general stats in which the survivor meta is basically unchanged. To be fair, the killer meta doesn't change much either, but again it's out of desperation. Look at the perks they're using. Stuff to slow gens and info, because they NEED that time cut out to win the match. And the survivor perks just negate those perks.
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