How much more help do survivors need?
BT basekit, Anti-camp, extra 10 seconds on hook, killer generator perks gutted, killer nerfs, soon mori nerfs, survivors buffs for multiple patches in a row.
How much more handholding? Basekit UB soon because survivors nonstop complain about 'slugging'? Lmao.
Comments
-
Basekit BT literally does nothing…killers just hit you off the hook and it is gone, Anti camp NEVER comes into play even if they are literaly camping. How precisely are killer gen regression perks gutted? You must be trolling because I always almost finish a gen into a pain res and dead mans…..
I truly have no idea what kind of game you are playing but we are clearly not playing the same game here.
35 -
Patch Notes 6.1.0 say HELLO. 😉
12 -
???? Without base kit BT you would just be downed again.
24 -
To answer your question, significantly more. Kill rates are still too high.
19 -
SWF or solo? Because the answers to those two questions are VASTLY different.
4 -
If the killer hits you off the hook, then base kit BT does its job perfectly fine. You don't go down immediately. That is all base kit BT is supposed to do. You get somewhere and have a fighting chance instead of going down immediately with no chance to get anywhere because your team mate didn't bring BT.
If the anti face camp mechanic doesn't come into play then it effectively does what it is supposed to do as well. It discourages face camping. Keep in mind; this is not an anti CAMPING mechanic but an anti FACE camping mechanic. It is not supposed to punish proxy camping.
I agree that slowdown perks weren't gutted but it is objectively true that they were nerfed. Pop has gone from 25% flat regression to first 20% of the current progress, then 30% and now it's back to 20%. That's a pretty noticeable nerf. 1/3 of it's power from the previous iteration is gone and that was worse than 25% flat out.
Pain Res has gone from 15% for each scourge hook to 25% for each unique scourge hook to now 20% for each unique scourge hook. That is a 20% nerf. Very noticeable but Pain Res remains a good perk because it offers something killers always need. Slowdown.
Dealock was nerfed as well (I still think it's unhealthy) and the same goes for Grim Embrace, although to a lesser degree. DMS is set up for a change. Whether that's a nerf or a buff depends on the killer it's used on. On Doctor, Billy, Blight and Artist it would be a nerf. On Trapper or Freddy it would be a buff.
You won't get slowdown perks out of the meta. Even if you nerf them to the point they all become mediocre. Because the very concept of slowing down games is what makes them good.
17 -
the basekit borrowed time was necessary though in the olden days you were basically throwing the game in solo queue if you didn’t use borrowed time
11 -
So you think free 10s of BT and 10% Haste, "doesn't do anything"? And that a killer can just camp you, and has no risk of the anti-camp meter filling up? Not only do they come into play, but I think you're being ungrateful that you have those things. It's probably your teammates' fault for not taking advantage of those mechanics. Someone gets 10s of safety for free, surely they have time to line up a body block. Someone's being camped, surely they're leaving so the camp meter will actually fill, or just hook trade. There's no reason for them not to be doing those things, since there's no reason the killer shouldn't be camping or tunneling. People complain about killers, but don't use strategy to combat them, or have bad teammates and still blame the killer for something.
14 -
Without Basekit BT survivors would not be leaving the hook area and would generally end up being rehooked in 5 seconds, making DS pretty much a mandatory, just like BT perk was before.
3 -
Getting base BT was one thing, but they also get Haste, and then they act ungrateful for it, like it's nothing. It's not nothing, else killers wouldn't complain about it being used offensively.
7 -
Yeah, it just sounds like, "I didn't run the killer for 5 gens solo, therefore base BT does nothing." It's ludicrous expectations for something, I'd argue, they shouldn't even have.
And gen perks were absolutely destroyed. That's a fact.
13 -
so if all these featuers do nothing why have them? then we can just voice for their removal if thats the case.
11 -
I thought kill rates at the moment were around 60% which is where the devs want them
4 -
The problem is that you're going off kill rates to begin with. Killer has, what, 60% kill rate? That means out of 100 games, you could draw 70. "Wow, that's a really good outcome for killer, right?" No, it isn't. And all this is assuming that kill rate is accurate, which it isn't. How many survivors throw games for no reason when they clearly could have won? So don't go off the kill rate stat. It gives you nothing of substance, and only misleads you.
11 -
That's the patch where killers got a bunch of buffs, and the only thing they've kept from it til now is the buff to kicks and weapon wipes. Everything else, the perk buffs, we have it worse now than we did back then.
12 -
I think its actually even higher right now. Either way 60% is too high for the health of the game as you can see from all the "going next"
2 -
We once had a close to 50 percent kill rate in the game. As I recall, it brought about a great killer exodus to the game, and survivor's biggest gripes were super long cure times.
Asymmetrical games, by design, aren't supposed to have a 50/50 win rate. That's just not how the entire genre is designedPost edited by Sandt1985 on14 -
The developers tried to balance around 50% kill rates before, but that didn't really work.
11 -
All the ‘going next’ is what contributes to the kill rate statistics lmao
12 -
That means out of 100 games, you could draw 70. "Wow, that's a really good outcome for killer, right?"That would give you, at worst, a loss rate of 5% vs a win rate of 25%. You would be winning 5 times as many times as you lose, and that's the hypothetical worst case.
6 -
This is obviously subjective and everyone is going to have a different opinion. We do know that the average kill rate is around 60% which is the target the devs have repeatedly said they want to balance the game around. To me it makes sense that in an asymmetrical game that the advantage should go to the "minority" side which is this game is the killer role. It's also a horror game - survival is supposed to be difficult. We've seen in the past that when killer rates get lower than this that survivor queue times go through the roof because nobody want to play the killer role.
4 -
Found the keyboard tough guy who doesn't play killer at all yet likes to tell other people how bad they are
8 -
Gr, you cant stand 1 meter away and hit the survivior immediately off hook anymore, what a survivior sided game!!!!
Regardless 10s extra on hook, a few months back 10s were added to gens and as killrates climbed up to 70% it was obvious 10s should be added to hooks in response.
And moris is a rework not even a nerf… it just encourages trying to win..?
3 -
SoloQ needs help, not survivors. This game is complete fine for SWF's
7 -
To be fair its a legitimately silly question if this person used an ounce of thought or had any empathy they would know these were all big issues. Imagine not getting to play the game for going down once.
0 -
I mean alternatively they hit you off the hook and you instantly went down, its still a decently big basekit buff that removes the need to use a perkslot for it
5 -
“It's also a horror game - survival is supposed to be difficult.” Yes but in horror movies the survivors win as well. Not everyone lives but usually at least the main character survives. I think 60% kill rate is fine. Killers should win more but survivor shouldn’t be impossible to escape either
2 -
No, without base kit BT, you'd have to spend a perk slot to have the same effect.
That's what happened before 6.1.0 added BT base kit. Survivors only had 3 real choices for perks because not bringing BT as your fourth perk was throwing the game.
The mechanic isn't adding anything new that wasn't already there, it just means survivors don't have to bring a mandatory perk for it anymore.
3 -
"Imagine not getting to play the game for going down once." That still happening to this day. Just less common
2 -
Honey, there were killers that were complaining about PTB Weaving Spiders. Killers complaining about something is not a barometer for how effective it is.
6 -
As I have said many times, it will never be enough. Give people what they want and they will still want more because it's never good enough. Base kit BT, anti camp, perks buffs/nerds... Nah not good enough "they do nothing" don't know why BHVR bothers to be honest, there doesn't seem to be any appreciation by survivors for what has been given
5 -
The biggest reason why 50% kill rate is not possible comes from survivors throwing the game, not killers being overpowered. It takes one survivor to grief the match by progressing to stage 2 hook in few seconds after being downed and then intentionally missing 2 skill checks and dying - all this in less than 1 minute. Even if this was not counted as a ''kill'' for the killer by some means, the remaining 3 survivors are very likely to lose the match and end up sacrificed, so there goes an inflated high kill rate number.
Those who play SoloQ know very well why it's the hardest game mode - it's because of fellow survivor team mates. The amount of people who intentionally grief right now is way too high and it will likely remain so unless developers introduce ways to either prevent the griefing or harshly punish such players.
7 -
As much as they can get my friend. I think we should feel compassion for the players on the other side when they experience gameplay and behavior that is uncomfortable.
1 -
Basekit BT allows you to run in a safe area, regardless if the killer is chasing you or not so i won't consider it useless at all; only survivors that don't know where to run consider it weak... Anticamp was made to counter facecamping and killers that can defend the hook optimally due to their powers (such as Billy, Bubba, Myers, etc etc) not proxy camping, not to mention that grabs during hook saves were removed so... Antigen perks were gutted period (wanna go back at old pop that regress 25% of a generetor instead of being applied on the total progression of said gen? Wanna go back at old pain res when It did the same thing that pop did but from distance, WITHOUT tokens and the regression applied on the total charged of a generator instead of being applied on the progress done? Wanna go back at old ruin/overcharge/call of brine/etc etc? If those perks were not gutted for you then you won't have troubles to revert their changes…). Please, at least try to be impartial on that matter…
8 -
that absolutely does something. Without it, they'd just go down instantly and get re-hooked again.
6 -
It's a nerf since you can't use them anymore to remove a survivor from the game denying save pallets, flashlights, flashbangs, decisive strike...
1 -
you forgot to mention that gen regression speed is a joke
6 -
And yet with all this handholding, I'm still winning 90% of my games.
0 -
This entire thread must be satire given kill rates are now about 70% and killers have been eating so well with every patch this last year. I’m not saying there weren’t nerfs but come on - BHVR’s focus has clearly been on the killer side. You can’t improve one side and leave the other - it’s just not how it’s done. The game has been going for nearly 10 years things need to change on both sides.
6 -
Iirc someone around here did the math sometime to show just how much of a difference just one percent makes when it comes to kill/escape rates. 50% may be too low - but 60% is too high.
Hello, I'm someone who plays a lot of SoloQ. I respectufully disagree. - In the vast majority of cases. Do people 4% and miss skill checks? Absolutely. But only a small portion of those is sheer pettiness.
Usually it's not pettiness though. If someone is on the hook with a proxying killer at five gens (to name one of the many things) I can't really blame them. At that point the survs can choose to either sweat their butts off and pretend it's a turney - which is nigh impossible in SoloQ to begin with - or be like "ok, guess it's one of those" and go next sooner rather than later. Which is exactly what happens.
"BuT in SpoRtS yOu doN't ThRoW eItHeR" — but in sports you have the option to comeback. Survs, esp. soloQ have no way of coming back except for a miracle (read: except the one who's chased next somehow manages to run a killer for at least three times as long as they're, by design, meant to). "BuT yoU SigNeD uP tO pLaY thE MaTch!" - The operative word being "play". Survs are not a pinata. If some, say, tennis player found it fun to use the serve to hit the other player, who they know can't dodge that, people would probably not at all think ill of the hit player noping out of being target practice.
Punishing people for refusing to be a punching bag because of something out of their control does in no way address the problem. It also alienates the players in the long run. — But at this point; I might actually be still for it. In part to prove a point and in part because it's true that - short and medium term - more people will stick around but I'm very sure it won't affect match outcomes in the slightest. - If the DC penalty is racked up along with it (also: not addressing the problem in any way - but also something I start to actually want to happen just to make a point) I'd actually wager the killrates go way up. - And in that case we would, for once, have killrates that are actually representative of the situation.
2 -
So you'd be indifferent if they were to remove basekit-BT and AFC, right? As they do nothing at all, m-kay?
6 -
Oh so you think basekit BT should just go huh? Completely unfair.
Surely being downed right after an unhook is engaging material.
What are these threads?7 -
you could just yknow play around the stuff and keep practicing
this is from one killer to im pretty sure another
0 -
this, it’s asymmetrical. By design it isn’t supposed to be 50/50
2 -
I disagree that you have it "worse" now. Considering this is the patch that really tilted the scales in favor of killers and arguably the patch that put DBD in a boring/stale state. (Indirect buff to Camping-Tunneling derived perks, Indirect buff to gen defense perks, ).
And no you didn't just keep the buff to kicks and weapon hits cooldown speed. You also forget that survivors' speed after a hit got nerfed, that generators time increase still remained, that Bloodlust buff still triggers a lot sooner than before, that you still kept the buff to progress lost when kicking a gen.Overall it was a net loss for survivors and a net-gain for killers. This isn't even counting the perk changes.
If you think you have it worse now you haven't been playing for long (presumably) since the worst part of DBD still remains during the game's beginning back in 2016.
8 -
Well it's a circular cycle I guess.
0 -
Survivors want to win too. Why should killers inherently have a higher chance at winning?
The kill rate is literally what is happening in matches. It is accurate. Killers can throw the match just as easily as survivors can, matches with DCs are not counted in stats and they're more likely to happen in matches where the killer is dominating, farming exists, etc.
I have never seen a justification for why kill rates are so wrong as to not be useful other than "they don't fit my narrative" or "in my anecdotal experience they don't feel right".
7 -
you do realize that is the exact purpose of basekit BT. You cant say it does nothing when without it you'd just go down. Since when is 10s immunity/health state considered nothing?
4 -
60% killrate = 50% winrate
0 -
DBD being asymmetrical doesn't imply any particular kill rate. It doesn't even imply the two sides need to have different objectives. It just implies that the two sides have different capabilities.
I have been playing since 2018 and recall no such "killer exodus". There were long queue times for survivor specifically in the evenings presumably because that's when people have time to play with their friends, but it was flipped during the day. The main difference now versus then is that there's a heavy bloodpoint incentive to play the other side.
This was 2018. Queue times were still long in the evenings for survivor, but kill rates were clearly not much lower.
This was 2020. Again, queue times were long in the evenings for survivor, but kill rates weren't much different than they are now.
People still want to play with their friends in the evenings and there are disproportionately many killers during the day or very late at night. The bloodpoint incentive just smoothes over long queue times for both sides.
3
