Solution for two survivors left case
This is the kind of situation where the match becomes a sure loss as the killer refuses to hook the survivor and leaves the survivor in dying state to search for the other survivor just because the killer is greedy to get 4K.
If a team has not repaired 4 generators and 2 die, the remaining 2 are left with nothing but to hope that the other survivor dies so that this survivor can find the hatch.
-So my suggestion is when there are only 2 survivors left in the trial, these 2 will gain the ability to recover from dying state more than once and their recovery speed will be increased by 100% and after recovery they will gain 10% speed and endurance for 12 seconds.
So you won't be left in dying state for 4 minutes.
-Generator repair speed increases by 100% so they can finish quickly (Instead of finishing the generator in 90 seconds, the last 2 survivors will be able to finish one generator in 45 seconds.)
So the last two survivors have a chance to escape.
Comments
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I dont think this needs a fix, most survivors stand at the exit gate and camp for 2 minues anyway, game after game. So i cant really see an issue with 4 minutes instead of 2.
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I have better idea remove hatch entierly and do not let last survivor undeserved free win. And if last survivor stay at 3 gen left he should repairing this generator by itself without any hand holding or give up yourself to the killer
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Instead of letting them infinitely recover and make game even longer, what about just letting them suicide when they are slugged in such situation (two survivors alive) for X seconds? (I would count that as sacrifice to not screw with achievement / challenges)
That fix the situation without making it even longer than now.
I don't really see a reason to give option to even more survivors free escapes. Hatch is enough.4 -
So there is no problem hiding survivors throughout the match until the server is close, according to your logic.
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The goal is to give the survivors a chance to escape, this does not prevent the killer from killing them, however it prevents leaving the survivor in a dying state for a very long time.
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How did you get to that conclusion from what i said? its not even close
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this does not prevent the killer from killing them
When it's easier to escape, I would say that is preventing killer from killing them, no?
If survivors gets to "give up" when slugged in that scenerio, it prevents leaving the survivor in dying state for a very long time too without annoying killers.4 -
They had their chance, they lost. - Do you think that should be rewarded with another chance?
Also "a very long time" ? - its 4 minutes max.
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Both sides have things to reward their loss so I don't see the problem here.
Four minutes of doing nothing but listening to Bill cough while the other survivor waits for you to die
If 4 minutes isn't a long time for you, then I don't know what game you're playing.
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The killer can literally hook the survivor and thus win because 3 kills is a win, again my suggestion is to give the last 2 survivors a chance to escape again this won't suddenly make them super skilled against the killer, it speeds up the repair of the generators and they can pick themselves up infinitely if the killer doesn't hook the survivor.
Your suggestion doesn't help if the survivor decides not to give up so what would you do in that case? this is a game that is supposed to be enjoyed.
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No.
People have won at two survs left before. It's not easy but it can be done.
If two people on your team got downed, you just got outplayed. Survs get enough third and fourth chances as it is.7 -
Sounds like this is what you need. It exists for exactly the reason you describe, but its up to you to save it for the endgame.
This is another perk that can help you with that situation.
Post edited by Unknown2765 on4 -
Nah, bro. The Victims had a "chance to escape" when they entered the game. If they play so poorly, that there's still 4 gens left, when there's 2 Victims remaining, they don't deserve to be given second chances, just because… What… It sucks to lose?
Then what about the Killer? So if Victims manage to repair 3-4 gens, so there's 1 gen left, should the Killer then be able to down Victims in 1 hit? Teleport hook? It's only fair, it sucks to lose, you know?
Your suggestions sound like the petulant whining a child makes, wanting the rules of the game changed to favor them, because they are a sore loser. Just accept you can't win every game, and if the Killer wants to slug for 4K, it's their risk to do so. It's not risk free.
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You talk as if my team is very coordinated and skilled and plays at their best, no I play soloQ and you know how miserable it is.
So it's great that the killer leaves you in a dying state for 4 minutes, you can't do anything, you can't play, you just crawl very slowly and that's it.
Nah, bro. The Victims had a "chance to escape" when they entered the game. If they play so poorly, that there's still 4 gens left, when there's 2 Victims remaining, they don't deserve to be given second chances, just because… What… It sucks to lose?
Just hook the survivor don't leave survivor in dying state and that way you get kills, if you leave them in dying state intentionally for a long time then you are telling me it's a free escape while you literally had a chance to hook survivor , so my suggestion is literally dedicated to such a playthrough that you are advocating.
According to your logic we should remove Noed and Deadlock because it rewards the killer for his failure "The killer had a chance but the killer failed"
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Nah, bro. The Victims had a "chance to escape" when they entered the game. If they play so poorly, that there's still 4 gens left, when there's 2 Victims remaining, they don't deserve to be given second chances, just because… What… It sucks to lose?
Then why does the match even continue when there's two Survivors and four gens left??
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You talk as if my team is very coordinated and skilled and plays at their best, no I play soloQ and you know how miserable it is.
dw, sbmm exist to fix your games accordingly to skill.
So it's great that the killer leaves you in a dying state for 4 minutes, you can't do anything, you can't play, you just crawl very slowly and that's it.
There is already a solution for this, but you choose to ignore it when i posted it.
Just hook the survivor don't leave survivor in dying state and that way you get kills, if you leave them in dying state intentionally for a long time then you are telling me it's a free escape while you literally had a chance to hook survivor , so my suggestion is literally dedicated to such a playthrough that you are advocating.
There is nothing wrong with that playstyle, blame the last survivor for not just giving up and run to the killer instead, the game is lost anyway.
According to your logic we should remove Noed and Deadlock because it rewards the killer for his failure "The killer had a chance but the killer failed"
You like to put words into other peoples mouth when they dont agree to what you are saying? you did the same thing to me.
The difference is that there are specific endgame strategies that the killer plan for when they make their build, if they use those perks. Its clearly from your post that you didnt plan on getting slugged for 4 minutes, and if you did, you should have brought the perks for that (as i showed you before in this thread).
You are slugged because you failed at looping, if you are bad at looping, there are perks that can help you. If you get slugged a lot, there are also perks that can help you.
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So you're actually planning to lose when you bring NOED? No one plans to lose. NOED is powerful because the Killer always gets value regardless of what happens. Anti-slug perks are very situational at best, so 9 times out of 10, they don't help at all.
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You absolutely do not require Victims being "very coordinated, skilled, and playing at their best" to do more than 1 gen. I know random soloQs can be bad, but that's because some people go in there without caring terribly about the base framework of the game, and simply try some silly plays for fun, which unfortunately sometimes go awry and impact the entire game for the other Victims.
So it's great that the killer leaves you in a dying state for 4 minutes, you can't do anything, you can't play, you just crawl very slowly and that's it.
Never said that. Bring counter-perks, as has previously been suggested by @Unknown2765.
Just hook the survivor don't leave survivor in dying state and that way you get kills, if you leave them in dying state intentionally for a long time then you are telling me it's a free escape while you literally had a chance to hook survivor , so my suggestion is literally dedicated to such a playthrough that you are advocating.
Slugging one of the two Victims is often in an attempt to find the last Victim. I'm not sure what you're going on about getting kills, it's obviously still to get kills. Bring perks.
According to your logic we should remove Noed and Deadlock because it rewards the killer for his failure "The killer had a chance but the killer failed"
No, if I was advocating for removal of second chances through perks, that would be an argument, but I'm not. There are comparable perks to NOeD and Deadlock for Victims, like 'Sole Survivor', 'Left Behind', and 'Fast Track'. All perks benefit from the game going sour for the Victims.
BRING COUNTER-PERKS.
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Its called endgame perks for a reason, the game is not lost for the killer if the survivors are still in the game. When i was a killer main i have regularly gotten 4k after 5 gens were done, Blood Warden is a fantastic perk for that.
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Yes let's blame the killer for "wanting 4k" again and not raise the real issue of the 2 last survivors playing hide and seek forcing the killer to play like that
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Because you didn't want me to ignore your comment so here we go.
These perks are temporary solutions like deja vu, and previously the borrowed time perk was necessary in every match to give your team a chance to escape from the killer instead hit and down right after they saved them form the hook.
Once it became basic, the use of borrowed time perk decreased.
Even with this perk it still has its problems, unbreakable only used once time match and you don't know if the other survivor is using this perk too , if you enter the dying state again this perk will not help you, Adrenaline requires an exit gate to be powered to work.
So even with these perks the problem is not solved.
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How are they temporary ? you get slugged and the killer leaves you, then you use Unbreakable and you are back on your feet, do you want unlimited second chances??
If you use it in front of the killer, then its bad play on your part.
Sounds more like what you really want is a free "i win button"
Adrenaline requires an exit gate to be powered to work.
Exactly, so when the last gen is done or the hatch is kicked you get back on your feet if slugged
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ok, let me come with a counter solution to your Original idea.
If there are 3 or more generators left and 2 survivors are already dead, the next survivor to be slugged will die after 35 seconds. (This gives enough time for them to recover with Unbreakable, which adds 15 more seconds, allowing the killer to create some distance). Additionally, if no survivor are in a chase or working on objectives for at least 15 seconds within every 60-seconds, they will die instantly. This prevents the last two survivors from hiding forever.
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Sadly bhvr doesn't give a damn about slugging because "statistically it doesn't happen very often, too bad for you". Thanks bhvr, very cool.
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How are they temporary ? you get slugged and the killer leaves you, then you use Unbreakable and you are back on your feet, do you want unlimited second chances??
This is the topic of my post if the killer wants 4K the killer will need hook the survivor , no more leaving a survivor in dying state to search for the last survivor while the other is helpless to do anything.
Sounds more like what you really want is a free "i win button"
I don't know how you consider it a win button while the last 2 survivors still have to fix the generators and hold out against the killer to give more time for the other to complete the generator they still need each other to heal and unhook the other (So the game is still on)
If you use it in front of the killer, then its bad play on your part.
If there are 3 or more generators left and 2 survivors are already dead, the next survivor to be slugged will die after 35 seconds. (This gives enough time for them to recover with UnbreakableHonestly, I can't even comment on this😂.
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Its as valid a solution as yours, and probably more fair as at that point killer clearly have the advantage. 2 survivors and 3-5 gens left? How big do you think the chances are for the survivors to win in that scenario?
This is the topic of my post if the killer wants 4K the killer will need hook the survivor , no more leaving a survivor in dying state to search for the last survivor while the other is helpless to do anything.
That dosnt answer the question, i asked "How are they temporary (refering to Unbreakable and Adrenaline) ? you get slugged and the killer leaves you, then you use Unbreakable and you are back on your feet, do you want unlimited second chances??"
- The killer goes away to chase the other survivor and leave you slugged, you use Unbreakable, and now you are back in the game.
I don't know how you consider it a win button while the last 2 survivors still have to fix the generators and hold out against the killer to give more time for the other to complete the generator they still need each other to heal and unhook the other (So the game is still on)
Because at this point, with your solution. you are robbing the killer for their victory, because you want a second chance, and you dont want to use Unbreakable.
- i will ask you once again, do you think survivors should be rewarded for loosing?
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The general idea is good, but the numbers are way too high
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That dosnt answer the question, i asked "How are they temporary (refering to Unbreakable and Adrenaline) ? you get slugged and the killer leaves you, then you use Unbreakable and you are back on your feet, do you want unlimited second chances??"
It's temporary, once and if the killer down you again and leaves you in dying state to search again for looking the other survivor and this time nothing helps you.
Adrenaline, it depends on luck and you may be unlucky and the killer may decide not to close the hatch in case you get another chance or the killer may find you crawling desperately trying to find the hatch (So adrenaline is not a very good solution in such cases)
Because at this point, with your solution. you are robbing the killer for their victory, because you want a second chance, and you dont want to use Unbreakable.
The game does not consider the killer a winner just because the killer killed 2 survivors , the game still goes on but the difference is that the killer has a higher chance of winning (So both sides are supposed to have a chance to win, not just one side)
So on the one hand you can't accuse me of stealing the killer's victory while the killer has not yet won.
i will ask you once again, do you think survivors should be rewarded for loosing?
I can say no and be done with it, but my suggestion is to fix one of the boring strategies, which is the killer's greed for 4K, at the expense of making the match boring, the survivor does nothing but crawl. my suggestion is to give the last 2 survivors a chance, not a reward. If the killer is doing this out of greed, let him face the consequences of his greed.
You killed the third survivor, now the fourth survivor will try to find Hatch, if you can kill the fourth survivor before this survivor reaches the hatch or opens the gates, congratulations you have killed all the survivors.
They had a chance but they failed without the killer using that strategy.
So the question is they got a chance not to give up and not to resort to waiting for the other to die, do you consider it a chance or a reward?
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Generator repair speed increases by 100% so they can finish quickly
Oh right, because losing to this would be so much fun.
So if you want 4k, instead of slugging at 2, you will start slugging since 3 survivors alive. So much better.Your suggestion doesn't help if the survivor decides not to give up
That's their choice. They would have option to end it, it's their issue if they don't want to. I don't see a reason to punish killer for winning, just because survivors don't want to admit, they lost the game.
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I think survivors should be able to heal themselves from the dying state regardless of the number of survivors in the match. But I think there should be a delay on it when they get to that last one percent of healing. So once they reach 99% healed, the survivor can crawl and heal but it will take 30-45 seconds (determined through play testing, what is balanced). This will discourage slugging which is something that should be done but still make it so the optimal play for survivors time efficiency is to heal each other.
I also agree that generator repair speed should be increased when there are only 2 survivors. I think 100% might be a bit much though. Maybe 50% when 2 survivors and 100% when 1 survivor. This gives the last survivor or two more of a fighting chance to finish the gens and escape.
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I see this thought come up periodically. It is really a poor thought from the killers perspective though. What do you think a survivor is more likely to do when they are by themselves against the killer? Are they going to run up to the killer and gracefully accept the loss (even though there is a high likelihood that their team mates suboptimal play or killer camping/tunneling led to this situation) or are they going to creep around the map trying to waste the killers time?
The answer to this isn't theoretical btw. The game used to work like you suggest. Survivors would choose to waste the killers time the vast majority of the time. Are you so thirsty for one kill that you would want to extend the duration of an average game by 10 minutes? Cause I'm not. The game is much better for everyone involved with the hatch being an option for survivors.
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Finally someone understood my post, most of the people commenting here think I'm suggesting giving a free win to the fourth or last survivor , my post suggests giving a chance to the last 2 survivors and not giving a free win.
I think 100% is good because you are alone in fixing the generators while the killer is chasing the other survivor while the rest of the team is dead
Speeds up the process by 100%, actually cuts the time in half, so a single generator takes 90 seconds to finish. If you increase the repair speed by 100%, you can finish repairing a generator in 45 seconds (half the time).
I think it makes sense considering you're the only one fixing the generators while half your team is dead.
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It's temporary, once and if the killer down you again and leaves you in dying state to search again for looking the other survivor and this time nothing helps you.
That's more of a skill issue than something that should be addressed with game mechanics. If you got downed once, that means you made a mistake in the chase. Getting a second chance with Unbreakable and failing the loop again is on you, not something the other side should have to pay for. Im sorry but It just means there's room for improvement, and I mean that in a constructive way.
The game does not consider the killer a winner just because the killer killed 2 survivors , the game still goes on but the difference is that the killer has a higher chance of winning (So both sides are supposed to have a chance to win, not just one side)
So on the one hand you can't accuse me of stealing the killer's victory while the killer has not yet won.
The killer clearly have the advantage with 2 survivors and 3-5 gens left (and not by a small margin).
How big do you think the chances are for the survivors to win in that scenario?
- I think its safe to say that the game is lost for the survivors, i have yet to see a match where the survivors win in this situation.
But my suggestion is to fix one of the boring strategies, which is the killer's greed for 4K, at the expense of making the match boring, the survivor does nothing but crawl. my suggestion is to give the last 2 survivors a chance, not a reward. If the killer is doing this out of greed, let him face the consequences of his greed.
You killed the third survivor, now the fourth survivor will try to find Hatch, if you can kill the fourth survivor before this survivor reaches the hatch or opens the gates, congratulations you have killed all the survivors.
They had a chance but they failed without the killer using that strategy.
So the question is they got a chance not to give up and not to resort to waiting for the other to die, do you consider it a chance or a reward?
The thing is that the 4th survivor is already at the hatch at this point (yes surprisingly a lot of survivors know where it spawns).
- There are missions that require the killer to get a 4k in one game, or even get the Devout iri emblem, you cant get that with out 4 hook kills and 9 hooks in one game.
I think this suggestion will make that hard to get.
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That's more of a skill issue than something that should be addressed with game mechanics. If you got downed once, that means you made a mistake in the chase. Getting a second chance with Unbreakable and failing the loop again is on you, not something the other side should have to pay for. Im sorry but It just means there's room for improvement, and I mean that in a constructive way.
This is easy to say, and it would be true if your team didn't throw most pallets across the map, create dead zones, and take into account the killer you're facing.
I can hold out for a long time against killers in chases, but it's terrible when the killer leaves you in a dying state, you can't do anything, and the killer will do it over and over again until the killer finds the other survivor.
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..You want a single survivor to complete the objectives designed for four?
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this is just terrible. Try playing killer for once.
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This is a terrible idea. Survivors shouldn't get rewarded for losing.
They just need to add an "give up" option which sacrifices the survivor on the ground like EGC does. Survivors can force hatch and end the game.
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What does this have to do with my post? The killer is at his strongest in such a situation and my suggestion is to give a chance to the last 2 survivors and not a free win.
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Both sides are rewarded for their losses in various ways, and my suggestion is to give chance, not rewards.
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My suggestion is that you run windows, it helps a lot with the looping (for me at least).
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You suggested a lot of buffs for losing which is kinda a reward.
My proposal fits way better into the gameplay and is really smooth to implement.
There is no need to extend a match any longer that is already over. Just go next.2 -
The game is not considered over because you killed half the team and the match still going on.
Your suggestion is just a free kill for the killer who is at his strongest when there are 2 survivors left, so you are literally encouraging give up and leaving the match which may motivate players to leave the match early at the first sign of defeat, this completely contradicts the main goal of the survivors which is (survive and escape the trial) and it is also a very lazy solution.
So instead of solving the problem and keeping the game fun, NO! We make the problem worse and make the player give up in most of the matches.
This is not a game anymore this is a simulator give up.
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