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Is Slugging An Issue?
(Screenshot from Chaos Shuffle.)
Slugging in DBD is the act of leaving Survivors on the ground for a prolonged period of time.
Slugging, in nature, is not necessarily malicious (in most cases), there could be many reasons to slug a Survivor, rather it be to gain pressure on Survivors grouping up or to try and prevent a flashlight save. This being said, slugging can also be used in ways to waste players' time, which normally involves leaving Survivors slugged until they bleed out.
In about 1-5% of my Survivor games, slugging is used maliciously to waste the time of players. In about 10-15% of my games, slugging is used minimally; and in the rest of my games occur normally where no slugging occurs for a notable amount of time.
I dont deal with Killers that bleed me out often, but it DOES happen, and whenever it does happen, it feels awful since Im effectively held within a match that should be over but isnt because the Killer decided that losing normally just wasnt good enough for us.
To which I ask, is this a huge enough issue to warrant basekit changes? What approach should be used to "fix" this if it is an issue?
Comments
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perhaps a free recover after one third of bleeding out or a set amount of time on the ground?
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4/5ths
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The only thing I could think of is basekit Unbreakable after 48 seconds w/ Endurance, and that could prove problematic. I don't think legitimate reasons to slug for 48+ seconds happen very often. Slugging for a 4k is a waste of everyone's time and nobody is throwing a parade for a 4k in a public match.
Base Unbreakable alone won't actually address the problematic instances slugging, because it's usually griefers who are slugging heavily for extended periods of time. They'd just keep downing the player until they bled out even with base Unbreakable.
Sometimes you have to slug. Especially in a close 3v1, it's often the correct play. But I can't remember the last time it was tactically necessary to slug players to bleed out. It's a playstyle the game doesn't need.
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i think 2 recoveries would be fine at most in a game which is why i said every third of bleedout timer. That's already a good chunk of time on the floor. Alternatively x amount of time on the ground similar to the anti-facecamp mechanic.
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typically just a display of dominance i guess. Some killers force bleedouts because they're being toxic or tilted by stuff that happened.
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It doesn't help some streamers are telling people to do it for some fake data just to spread toxic play.
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It’s not unfair or toxic or whatever, but it’s certainly unfun. I haven’t heard any solutions that aren’t just huge buffs to survivors (basekit Unbreakable) or exacerbating the DC epidemic (let survivors choose to die after being slugged) though.
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Simply end the game in the same way when all other survivors escape or are hooked, by instant bleed-out.
These discussions always become an excuse to ask for a second chance that you don't deserve. If everyone is on the floor, you have already lost. If someone is still stading, that's just the killer creating pressure and doesn't deserve to be punished for it.
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No slugging is not a problem at least not if the killer just slugs in a certain situation to preassure or end the game entirely. The only thing that's probably not good for the game is bleeding entire teams out for no reason, unfortunately you can just die on top of ironworks of misery with boil over and flip flop and you could be unkillable (you have bleed them out), so I don't know how to fix that issue without making it easier for such teams to annoy you xD
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I would make a distinction here.
There are instances where slugging is just a natural reaction like survivors that are close together or make it impossible to hook. I can't blame a killer for not picking up a survivor under a pallet when someone else is around.
However, there are also instances when a killer goes out of their way to slug everyone to death. That is the part that I consider problematic and it's impossible to fix this without also affecting situations where slugging is necessary.
Slugging for the 4k as unfun as it is, is not something that I would blame on the killer because it is a natural course of action. People try to optimise pretty much everything about this game and this is just another part of that. It's also a symptom of the "Your fun is not my priority." mentality just as survivors trying to hide and not doing any gens when they know they cannot win anymore. Both are not obligated to make it easier for their opponent. One way to fix this is to remove the hatch. Another would be to rework the hatch and help the killer find one of the last 2 survivors.
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Not an issue at all.
It's always because of a misplay from survivors.
- Keeping on gens together up to the last second.
- Keeping together, in general, to clumsily try to get a flashlight save.
- Playing aggressively against a dangerous killer.
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The only measure that could be taken would be to let them all die faster if all the remaining survivors in the trial are slugged.
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I agree. Slugging in general is often quite a risky strategy that can be really rewarding, but can also easily be countered if survivors play it right. Even from the perspective of the person being slugged, it's better to stay on the ground for some time and then get healed instead of being hooked and one step closer to death, possibly even tunneled off the hook. If survivors act in time, the killer won't gain a lot of time from that and it will have given up a hook.
I would be fine with the bleeding out being sped up when all survivors are in the dying state, tho. It's the only situation where it takes a little too long, doesn't change the outcome of a game that is already over and some killers use it to BM. Still, it should take some time for this speed-up to occur, because if there is Unbreakable or Boon: Exponential in play, the bleeding out timer going faster would hinder the survivors' ability to come back from such a situation, since someone could end up dead before getting healed or reaching a blessed totem and recovering.
Either that or make perks like Unbreakable, Boon: Exponential and No Mither prevent the speed-up from occuring when active, but that would be a small nerf to the first two, because a killer could be able to tell someone has unbreakable by the speed of the bleeding.
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this "solution" is nothing but rewarding misplays and making already bad players even worse
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I think killers also for get 95% of their games are not SWF teams and play every match slugging like they are once you pass the low MMR.
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I play killer most of the time probably 90% and i know what you're saying. With that said i think slugging is unnecessary a lot of the time and if someone bleeds out for 1/3 of their bar in one down it seems a bit excessive.
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I agree 100% there shouldn't be a second chance basekit for slugs however if everyone is on the floor it doesn't mean they have lost. There has been times that a survivor has brought the right perks that enabled them to get up and they healed the rest. There is already a counter to slugging through perks imo so if survivors don't like the bleed out they can use the perks
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there's no map where that's necessary anymore though so i don't see that as a reason.
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This. Slugging is a choice. If slugging is your only avenue to winning most of your games, you need to let someone tutor you on how to play killer.
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No there is no slugging problem. The constant rage posting about it really doesn't reflect any normal games for anyone nor the state of the game overall. It really feels like people are massively exaggerating it at every opportunity to push a narrative for yet more survivor sided changes (seeing as discussion is always dominated by those players).
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Yes, as you stated, the options still available to survivors should be taken into account.
If BHVR does something like this, I'm sure we'll give them all the feedback it deserves, if we feel they forgot something.
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BHVR has the stats anyway. They've given them a few days ago.
It's doubtful they do anything against something that minor.
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So basically your saying you have no control over yourself? Nobody MAKES you do anything. Only you control your own actions. Claiming otherwise seems quite silly tbh.
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a third would be better with endurance
and make it every third
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Most of the time its because of survivor mistake/skill issue. Whether that be not efficient enough on gens or chases going really short.
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The problem with "a misplay from survivors" is that the victim of the bleedout isn't the same Survivor making the misplay. The victim is ALWAYS a different Survivor. It's the bad kind of gameplay like Myers and Oni and Plague, where someone else's mistake results in you being punished. At least Myers and Plague are a little more possible to counter, even when someone else makes those mistakes, but Oni and bleedouts are just a 'too bad so sad'.
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This is only true some of the time. High skill killer play nowadays often emphasizes slugging over hooks; survivors can be split up and the killer still might choose to slug rather than hook so they can immediately start pressuring another survivors. This also ignores killers who will leave survivors slugged until bleed out rather than hook them.
I don't love the idea of letting all survivors die faster if slugged, because that would only further incentivize slugging and sort of validate that as a win condition, which I don't think is a good idea because it is not fun for survivors. It also could deprive people with UB, No Mither, Exponential, etc. from being able to use their perks.
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If the killer is using slugging to get the win then it seems the survivors are the ones that need the tutor to learn to counter it. Have said it before and will say it again, this mindset of "get good" when the killer is already getting the wins makes no sense. If the killer was losing the matches then yes they need to improve but if they win then why do they need to improve?
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This seems like a separate issue. If there are consistent spots on certain maps where the killer mathematically cannot make it to a hook if the survivor runs Boil Over, the maps should be adjusted. I don't care if it can occasionally happen due to bad RNG, but the second it's even pretty likely on certain maps, that's a problem.
The vast majority of the time people are left slugged for long periods of time it doesn't have to do with an inability to hook them. Almost always it's because they'd rather chase a nearby survivor and take a while to relocate the slug, because of perks (e.g. not wanting to eat a DS), because they simply think the best way to win is to slug all survivors, or out of spite. Sometimes you might slug someone for a temporary inability to hook them (e.g. a sabo as you're going to the hook), but that's not an issue, and not what you're talking about.
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I'm only going to have my experience of this from 8 trials, wh9ch isn't much, but I've played 3 Killer and 5 Survivor games since the update. I used the Mori once, let another final survivor escape by Hatch, and got a 2K in the final
As Survivor, I've escaped twice, but in each of the three I died, 2 were by Mori and 1 I witnessed a Mori. On each occasion, the Killer kept slugging one player and searched for the other to then down and hook them, before returning to the slugged to perform the Mori.
Obviously, it's a small number of games from my individual perspective. However, this was way, way, way more common. In fact, I don't think I've ever been slugged so often in such a short amount of time.
If this is a snippet of how the future is going to be for the game, it is going to be far from fun. I regret supporting Cypress Mori base-kit already, because these games have not been enjoyable, basically playing tag with the other final survivor until they both go down.
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I'm tired of killers constantly slugging for clearly not reason when games are clearly over. The fact that people get so bothered over the hatch is just insane.
I'm tired of fun, back and forth matches being soured by this miserable game of bleeding on the floor.
I'm so over it that I go out of my way to make sure the killer has as much fun as everybody else. And it's funny because I'm the one that gets slapped on the hook like I am the one ruining somebody's fun. You could have just hooked and been halfway through another match by now.
I don't mean to be so opinionated but I see too many killers teaming with survivors just to get me when I'm just trying to do gens that I'm just over it. I don't enjoy having to drop my item repeatedly for 5 minutes but hey, when there are 2 killers in the match I'm not left much choice here.
Something has to give.
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This has been happening to me a lot lately as killer. I am being bullied by at least 3 players and no they aren't doing gens either. So I can understand why slugging is essential. Half my games the survivors are way ahead of me and I can't catch up and they aren't carrying endurance or exhausted perks. I don't understand it why survivors have to play toxic. I only bled out one team and just suck the rest up to loses. But in the end there are more toxic squads out there than anything.
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so...why are we suggesting anything like basekit UB (which is just another kind of second chance for bad players handholding, while extremely powerful when good players use it) instead something like give up option as a team?
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I still don't know why self pick up is considered a "huge buff". It takes a long time to fully recover from the dying state without perks, and even then, you recover back to wounded, with no endurance. If you add perks, it still requires you to have at least a second player acting as bait, and you'd be sacrificing at least 2 perk slots to do this, which means no gen rushing builds, and at least 2 players off gens.
I don't know, the times I've been "legitimately" slugged, there's almost never been enough time to fully recover. The only instances self pick up would have done something is when everyone's getting slugged, or the killer is going for a slug for the 4k.
And honestly, even if this was an honest to God massive buff that would literally drop kill rates down to 0%, I'd much rather have a very nerfed version of the self pick up system that would not affect normal gameplay than not having anything at all. What, you need me recovering 3 times before I can self pick up? Sure, go ahead, but allow me to pick myself up when the killer has decided that today they feel like making me lick the floor until bleedout.
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Slugging is absolutely an issue. One of the most serious issues is when you get slugged so much in a match that you bleed out, that's no good.
We should increase the bleedout timer to 8 minutes from 4, that would be a good nerf to slugging.
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Increase timer to 8 minutes
That's insane. People are complaining about being slugged for 4 minutes, doing nothing, but you want those 4 horribly boring minutes to become 8 whole ######### minutes? Bro.
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Teaming with Victims
Report them for working with Killer. ezpz
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Haha yeah. I was just kidding. I already think its lame that you can force a 4 minute bleedout. If anything, I think any survivor that has been bled for at least 60 seconds gains access to a way to bleed out faster. Or something like that, anything at all really.
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pretty sure some dev said that survivors are bled out fully 1% of the time too. Getting tired of this give me bs.
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