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Chaos Shuffle proves to me something valuable
Survivors with no windows of opportunity and exhaustion perks are having a very hard time looping. These perks are officially a crutch proven by Chaos Shuffle.
I think it's high time to nerf these perks especially Windows of Opportunity? It's helping the survivors too much.
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The good thing about Chaos Shuffle is it makes people re-evaluate what they actually know about the game. It's possible to become too reliant on perks and not enough on the base game. It's why I always randomize my builds, because it has made me a better player, having to not always be relying on good perks.
I'm not sure they need nerfing. The perks aren't the issue, but certain players who are too dependant on those perks ought really to learn the game beyond that safety net. It could be said some Killer perks are also crutches, but I wouldn't necessarily advocate those to be nerfed just because neither.
I just want people to experiment more. If I can win trials on both sides against strong opponents with random builds, then so can others. Just today, I got a 3K against a 4-man SWF on The Game, with the perks Shadowborn, Play With Your Food, and Enduring, as Hag. I am certain they were cheats too, because my stuns were slower than vanilla despite Enduring, and They had one Boon for Dark Theory, yet nobody has Scratch Marks in the radius. And they did play hard, with The Game as an Offering.
People can win without the main big perks. I just think they've been programmed by public opinion to think at pubs level they cannot win any other way. Unless you're in the top professional competitors, you can randomize and still win.
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Window of opportunity is never ever getting nerfed I wish people would stop asking for it. It's way too important for newer players trying to get to know the game maps considering theres a huge amount of maps these days with multiple configurations.
Its definitely a crutch perk though I mean if you run some blindness builds you'll see people go from being okay at looping to absolute garbage running into walls and stuff because for some reason not only does their map knowledge go away but also there environmental awareness. I can understand the first part but don't really get the second.
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good take and methodology for this conclusion op
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So, you see that WoO helps survivors, and because it's helpful it should be nerfed?
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That is… a fascinating take. - Please do elaborate how exactly you determined the cause and effect relationship? Pray tell, how does Chaos Shuffle prove what you claim?
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It's the opposite of what you say. It shows how killers are so powerful now that survivors need perks to compete.
Just because a perk can be a crutch perk in some cases doesn't mean it always is. If a player always runs into walls without it they're not going to play that good with it either.
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I mean yeah no mystery that exhaustion does way too much for little to no downside.
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Yeah obviously it's not going to be for every person that uses the perk, but it definitely is for a lot of people.
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I wouldn't say exhaustion perks are a crutch but WoO is an interesting case. I kinda put it in the same camp as the visual heartbeat, they're meant to be there to help out newer/disadvantaged players but are generally ran for their ability to streamline the game. It definitely is fascinating watching how blindness can affect survivors sometimes as they can become really lost without it.
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I don't use Windows or exhaustion perks in normal mode and i still can't loop 😂 I'll also point out that it's the same on the flipside - I don't see tunnelling very often in my regular games but I saw it almost every single game yesterday in Chaos Shuffle. Not having aura perks or 4 slowdown perks to fall back on apparently hurts alot of killers. Maybe this mode is a good wake up call to everyone that an overreliance on perks can hold back skill development?
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Windows of Opportunity is fine as it is. If you can't deal with it then it's a skill issue on your end.
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this is definitely an issue with some players you really should learn how to play without exhaustion perks
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I was taught that Hex spawns are incredibly bad
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I just need to point out the probable typo: "useafe" (usage?)
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Tbh BHVR should nerf the top 10 perks on both sides to the ground, the games in chaos are so fun!! maybe just dont touch otr and ds for the tunneling problem
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Not my image not my problem ;)
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Well honestly from my experience, it's hard to disagree with you. I certainly see Survivors mess up WAY MORE than normal in Chaos Shuffle.
At the same time I'm winning far more games than normal, because I'm used to not bringing any regression perks…
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Right after Killer Aura reading perks go,right?
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There, for future uses:
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Well considering how high kill rates are already, if you nerf all the best survivor perks it will be too high even for Bhvr. and they will have to either buff survivor or nerf killer to compensate. Either way killer mains will complain because the game isnt tilted ENOUGH in their favor.
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That's a reach. Anyone who's used to running a perk for information, and then not having it, would make anyone feel naked or in need of adjustment. I really don't think any of those perks are crutch. I just don't like Smash Hit having such a short cooldown, because it's used almost exclusively by players with good connections/teleport backwards exploits for easy sprint bursts.
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I don"t see how this will help anything or how it has anything to.do with chaos shuffle mode. It will just make a new meta form with what are now the best perks.
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Never used Windows of Opportunity ever, but I think your point is a bit dumb here when you consider the Killer end of things.
Both sides have a meta, and when you remove that side's ability to play with meta, they begin to tank their performance… what about Killers who lose because of no slowdown? Are we now going to say slowdown is a crutch because Killers lose more often in instances where no slowdown is present?
The common response to this is "it's not entirely a crutch since past a certain point it becomes necessary to use to win," to which I reply, wouldnt that statement also apply to the other side?
People complain about "crutches" while turning blind eye to their own, because if they lose, they have to find a reason behind them losing, and they pin the blame on "crutches" as a result. We've seen this with non-problematic perks on either side in the past and we still continue to see it, this is no exception.
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sure it will create a new meta but atleast we will have a fresh gameplay than this what we have for years
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ts common sense that this is easier to do with those perks equipped. Still why should it be crutches? Crutches are thing you can use to cover up for bad plays. Having trouble looping isnt bad play, its how this game works in its basic state. Also starting again a topic about windows after we had this for thousands of times and everytime it was explained so that people like you who dont understand its reral value shpuld be silenced.
The only thing chaos shuffle has proofed for the second time now, is that killers that only rely on slowdown are just covering up there lack of skill on using killer powers properly.
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It's not about tilting in favor. It's about seeing the major flaw of allowing 4 exhaustion perks in a game based around the base movement speed. The simple fact of allowing a free speed boost causes so many balance issues for the game to where more killers would be added specifically to counteract the mechanic by either making them a dash killer to end chases quicker.
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I mean the game is unbalanced that ship has sailed. At this point if you gpt rid of exhaustion perks it would make it almost impossible for survivors. I wouldnt be surprised if kill rates went up to 80% or something.
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I mean some people say that without exhaustion they ended up becoming better at looping so that 80% wouldn't last too long.
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Iv played with and without exhaustion perks. If you're playing against a really good killer player who is also one of the killers with an anti loop it will be hard to last long in chase on most of the maps these days. Now against a basic m1 killer maybe but that still depends on getting a decent map. Besides that there is still the question of why we would be nerfing survivor more when they're already at such a disadvantage.
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Exhaustion perks are the clostest thing survivors have to an actual power and its expected that every survivor is running some form of exhaustion perk. I sometimes don't, but I also feel it everytime I don't.
But don't hate on the exhaustion perks of survivors on general, only hate DH (and MFT, may it rot in hell).
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Eh the most issue I have with them is sprint burst and lithe. Just very brainless for such a good effect with the only downside being you can't use MFT or Iron will with them.
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i'll repeat again; windows isn't a problem, majority of maps supporting insta dropping survivors with enough pallets is. killers shouldn't lose 3-4 gens for chasing a survivor running yellow to yellow, inefficient looping should have a cost in the long run but there is no long run after such chases because there will only be 1 gen left.
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This! Most based and true comment in this whole discussion.
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Ressources are somehow designed to be used. And if the killer wants to chase the WoO user for so long ('cause a WoO is easy to spot if he plays as @NerfDHalready described), it's up to him.
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Inefficient looping is dying too early. Many killers can't be looped effectively anyway and then there are cases like Nemesis, Oni, Billy, Blight where the best play is to drop everything immediately. In many games the only proper chase is the first one. So preserving pallets nets you exactly nothing. Well, they might come in handy in the next game.
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but if its such a good qol perk people deem it 100% necesary to do anything maybe the perk is too strong and needs changing?????
you disprvd ur own point. :/
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fine with me, the more windows users there are the less actual perks I have to face. They can go to whatever loop they want.
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If we're nerfing perks purely based on pick rate then Pain Res, Pop, and Corrupt all need to get nerfed even harder than they already have been, Lethal needs to be neutered, and BBQ needs to somehow get weaker. According to Nightlight (so not the most accurate but it's the most up to date stats available) Windows is seen 22% of the time, or less than once per match when you account for there being 4 survivors in a game.
Sometimes we just have to accept that there will always be a meta, and that having Windows be the meta decision is, has been, and always will be 100% better for the game than when every single build was some combination or IW/DH/DS/UB/SB/BT. Not everything in this game has to be nerfed into the ground, it's okay to have something be good.
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Killers also for get they have the exact same perk that's getting buffed on update.
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they already nerf if u want mroe give killer more basekit. there lots of ge perks for surv but not many good one left for killer, just got accept sometimes not able to a gen. bbq is helthy it encorage not be near hooks and also change target. no chage needed, lethal nly a prolem on blight and nurse nobody else. change blight and nurse if lethal a problem.
y killers not alloud to run perks to find ppl OR hold gens y we complain when the problem already fixed????? cuz we cant loop five gens ez anymore????? maybe it time to leave if that all u want to do…. :/
WoO is only prblem cuz there no activate needed. just happen. it to strong on rly good loopers i dont even ahve to try. maybe we make it work on vaults not pallets and have difrent perk for pallets idk????? that fair?????
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i be fine if they fix predrop how do u suggest they do? should not be so easy to predrop. i dont think woo an issue on vaults just pallets cuz it too easy to chain.
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no, they stated that WoO is literally used as a crutch even for high hour players to make up for their refusal to learn mapa, even while in SWF
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No level of map knowledge tells you what RNG you have been given though.
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Just use the numerous blindness/exhaustion perks/addons…
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That's why it needs a cooldown.
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If a killer losses 3-4 gens in 1 chase its more of a skill issue ca they had bloodlust 3 for a good 2+ minutes.
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I think Windows is a necessary evil in all honesty, the game is just too much for new players and Windows does a lot to mitigate the disadvantage for new survivors.
I don't use Windows at all as I think after a point it becomes counter productive for learning maps and developing good game sense and while I am not a competitive player, I still prefer to improve.
I don't think Exhaustion perks are the plague on killers they once were, especially Dead Hard which was a nightmare before it finally got nerfed as it should have.
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Exhaustion perks are also hit or miss a lot. Maps are a lot smaller and have huge dead zone areas with 1 unsafe pallet. I see a lot of Leith from a good zone after the 2-4 loops (maybe 5 if you get the killer to whiff a hit) to a dead zone area only to get hit cause bloodlust 2 proced and nothings there but a pallet the killer ignores when dropped, cause they take .5 seconds to round the rock/bush.
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It does nothing but show limited resources. Just like how killers can see all gens aura at all times which are their limited resources or all survivor items in the beginning of the match. The information is only valuable if you have the skills to make it so. Just because a killer can see all the gens doesn’t mean they will be good at patrolling them, and just because a survivor is using a perk to see pallets and windows doesn’t mean they’re good at looping.
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