A Most Dangerous Thread
OP perks. Deep down in your heart you know what perks need to be nerfed. Don’t resist, tell the truth.
Infectious Fright! 🫣 Ah!! What have I done. 60 sec cooldown???😨 Ah!!! I can’t stop!
…Tell the truth…
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I feel like Ultimate weapon should have a radius based on the locker that killer opened, instead of a killer's TR.
Oh, wait a second… 💀
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Not the easiest of questions, friend, most of the really strong perks have already been hit hard by nerfs and adjustments.
Though if I was forced to nerf a perk in the current state of the game it would be Weave Attunement, simply because it is annoying.
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Alright, I'll bite. I've got a few
Windows of Opportunity - Not objectively overpowered by any means, but I think it needs a nerf. The amount of people who are very clearly not good at the game and use this with Lithe to just hold W from pallet to pallet to window is annoying to see. It's braindead gameplay and the perk will play the game for you if you let it. Not conducive towards players actually learning the game properly, the definition of a crutch that could do with becoming a bit less appealing.
Sprint Burst - Allows you to play far too safe. Massive snoozefest, especially against killers with a lack of catchup. Makes me roll my eyes every time I see someone run into the sunset from a gen for the seventh time this game.
And to be fair… I'll throw in some killer ones too.
Hex: Pentimento - Genuinely one of the most obnoxious perks in the game as it stands, and super problematic for various reasons. That much global slowdown is a nightmare, especially against soloq if you're not paying attention to where hexes are cleansed. This perk does not stop being a powerhouse against SWF, though. Playing around a 3 gen or a hook with Pentimento up is EXTREMELY strong.
Spirit Fury - More specifically the synergy with Enduring. Extremely cheap combo that results in free hits just by playing the game. By itself it's fine.
Franklin's Demise - GRAHHHHHHHHH GIVE ME MY FLASHLIGHT BACK!!! Genuinely though I think instead of draining charges, it should consume items again now that it no longer works with Limited Items. There's currently basically no chance of getting your item back with any useable amount of charges, and if the items flat out disappeared after a long period of time (i think it was like 90 seconds, could go to 120 maybe?), it'd nerf Franklin's/Weave since it wouldn't be indefinite.
More importantly however, I think there are FAR more perks that need buffs at the moment, and more urgently than a lot of perks need a nerf. Like most of these perks aren't completely destroying the games they're in, they just have issues one way or another. Except Pentimento, screw Pentimento.
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SB in my opinion have been the strongest survivor perk in the game for a while. The only perk that allow to just excape a deadzone. Also it extremely annoying to see them slow walk right infront of u without care. It's like they taunting me @Herlnfernal.
I don't care what anybody say....NOED is still complete BS. You get hit by it usually after cooking the killer the whole game and everybody leave cutting their losses. I don't care how many times it been nerf because the core problems still remain. You can be completely trash the whole match and win off this one perk.
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I still think Pain Res and Grim Embrace need to deactivate once a survivor dies. You shouldn't be able to tunnel 1 survivor and then use the remaining 3 tokens to win the 3v1. You should have to actually spread hooks for real if you want full value.
Nowhere to Hide is a bit too free right now especially with the moving range following the killer. At the very least, the range should stay centered on the generator.
On the survivor side, Windows of Opportunity needs a nerf (too much overreliance and plays the game for you too much - needs to have a short cooldown like it used to). I genuinely feel like nerfing this perk would force players to become better. When I was newer to the game I used this perk a lot and noticed that I played way worse when I stopped running it. So I forced myself to continue not using it and I feel like I became a better survivor after I did that.
Hyperfocus/Stakeout when combined speeds up generators far too much. Both perks are fine on their own, but the combo is too strong as Stakeout makes Hyperfocus far too consistent and increases its value since Stakeout increases the bonus.
Then these 2 perks: Boil Over and Knock Out. Both these perks have no place in the game at all and both should be reworked.
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Sometimes I wish Pain Res was reverted to its original effect but kept the tokens. -15% progress but highlights the screams of survivors on the generator hit by it, so the killer has to go over and pressure the generator to keep it from being completed. The problem was always repeating Pain Res over and over and over, but the tokens fix that.
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All killer aura perks should get the token treatment like like pain res did, after 4 uses of aura reading perks we go back to the old fashion strategic way of looking for survivors without the game giving free 24 hour information. All add ons that give aura reading should be reworked.
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Hex: Pentimento - this perk needs some rework because it's just too oppressive at 1 token already. 30% action penalty is just not ok at all to come at such a low price.
Nowhere to Hide - too much of free info coming with the...gen kick condition.
Machine Learning - overbuffed with this patch.
Knock Out - not really OP, but needs a huge rework due to how unhealthy it is.
Predator - this rework was stupid.
Resurgence - insta 70% healing off hook is insane and not okay at all.
OTR - it gives way too much and can be abused way too easily.
Reassurance - with the base hook timer change, do i even need to explain this one?
WGLF - this patch gave it an overkill buff.
Sabo perks - gut them, kill them, they are so unhealthy and encourage a rather very unhealthy playstyle.
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Finesse. Good survivors already camped Exhaustion cooldowns in safe check spots and pre run like crazy, refusing to committ to anything unless killer is called out. This perk is just another safety net for that play style.
I spent an afternoon this weekend literally getting 0 hook/tier 1 Nemesis games against 3/4 Finesse+Lithe lobbies it's getting really old not being able to get any first hits at all, ever. It's crazy that I have to switch to Legion if I want to relax and enjoy some good chases.
I cannot stress enough how much I dislike Finesse.
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Feel like the area for head on is abit too forgiving. You shouldn't have to worry about a head on stun after pulling a survivor from the locker NEXT to it. I'd understand if I then walk in front of the 2nd locker, but the area really shouldn't be covering areas to the sides like that rather than JUST directly in front of the locker.
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It gets worse, the hitbox lingers so you sometimes even get stunned if you swing too soon at the survivor jumping out, even if you didn't ger stunned by the initial jump xD
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Friends Til The End - the fact it gives aura reading and exposed as well as being able to switch to another seems like it does too much. I
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Seriously? Pentimento? That perk sucks.
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It absolutely does not suck. You're probably just not using it right.
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Only 4 imo:
WGLF – current version is overbuffed.
Background Player – 20 second of cd let you use it literally on every down and pair with it other exhaustion, too forgiving for such strong and sometimes even game changing effect.
Reassurance – I'm glad it's unpopular, because in right hands it's insane, especially after 70 seconds stage. But with 99% of people don't understand how to use it, I doubt it ever will be nerfed.
Forced Hesitation – 95% just use it for hook camping, but it rarely works in other situations. I think range should be buffed, but unhooked survivor should have immunity to it for 10 seconds.Honestly, recent hysteria about Penti is so cringe and see people try to create a problem out of nothing (thanks to Otz, I guess?) is disgusting. The only viable argument against it is that it's rough for soloq, but guess what? EVERYTHING is strong in soloq, because survivors are more killer here than killer himself. I don't know since when Sable can't break same totem she did before again is perk's problem and not the Sable's one.
You can nerf literally every thing in this game under this excuse. Oh, someone gives quick first hit to Oni in soloq? Let's nerf Oni. Soloq survivors can't share info about killer's perk? Let's nerf every Undetectable perk. Soloq can't hit great skillcheks? A good reason to nerf overcharge and Oppression. Survivors don't know counterplay against Twins? Let's nerf th… oh, wait.
When Penti was released, there was mistakes in description and gen slowdown effect was on a second place. And pretty much everyone said that if it's how it works, than perk would be useless. Now suddenly everyone plays in different dbd, it seems.
Left alone already the only perk, which makes Hexes viable, it already has clearest counterplay (yes, even if it's not enough for majority soloq big brains).2 -
There is only one way to use it and it's countered by survivors just not doing random totems
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Lightborn makes flashlights useless, which is super annoying and frustrating when you bring an already niche flashlight build.
Franklins is by far my most hated perk next to paint res. Dropping your item and then consuming it makes items completly useless if they weren’t consumed already and you can’t even pick it up in time since you stay on hook or in chase until there are no charges left.
Pain res: I hate it so much. Gen 99%, BOOM. Gen 99% again, BOOM. Gen 99%agaaaiin, BOOOOOM. Gen 95% killers comes and chases you away.
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Franklins. Such a dumb perk. It is so irritating to go through multiple bloodwebs for a single item add on, equip a build, and then immediately have the item knocked out of my hand. I don't think there's a good justification for this perk. It should do something else.
It's one of the more anti-fun perks in the game. I only ever see it used by Fun Police players. Let me just remove 5-10k BP from your account at the press of a button. Sounds healthy.
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Lit totems should always be destroyed because there's a very good chance one could be devour hope.
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Such a strange argument to say survivors using windows are "not good at the game." I mean what does that even mean. If they escape they are by definition good at the game whether they had windows or not. Do you also think that killers that win by using noed or the new predator are "not good at the game" because those are perks that actually reward you for being bad at the game. All widows does is show you what resources you have, you still have to actually know how to take advantage of them. And considering how overpowered killer is right now survivors need all the help they can get. A lot of perks like windows and kindred should really just be made basekit.
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Yeah, I don't think there are really any busted OP perks anymore.
Now there are strong ones and annoying ones, but none since Eruption that make me feel like "that's just not fair".
And I agree about Weave Attunement. People running WA and Franklins make me think unkind thoughts.
Windows is not at all op, and I think it's ridiculous that people call for it to be nerfed. But I do think it's a perk most often used by players who don't have time to pay attention and/or develop game sense, and I personally find it to be a waste of a perk slot.
But I get it, tracking resources is a pain, and it's nice to have a perk to do it for you.
And saying someone who escapes is "by definition good at the game" is a joke. Awful survs escape just as much as bad killers get a 4K. Often times the best survs carry their team but die so their lesser teammates escape.
As we all know kills/escapes =/= skill; this isn't hockey
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I didn't say all Survivors who use Windows are bad at the game. I'm saying bad Survivors can use Windows like an autopilot and not have to learn tile placement. It can be used as a crutch.
There's plenty of good Survivors who use Windows too, though.
Well first of all, I don't watch Otz, I haven't for years, and I've really disliked Pentimento since it's release. My opinions are my own.
It's undeniably better against SoloQ, yes, but it's also extremely effective against pretty much any lobby if played around correctly. It allows for essentially free proxies if you get a hook near a totem (you can leave it unlit until you get the hook near a Penti spot), and it makes for some extremely ironclad 3 gens if you have a totem to play around as well.
The counterplay is pretty much null if you are in a favourable situation to camp a totem alongside a key objective, which can happen a lot more often than you'd think. It requires extreme coordination to clear in these situations, to the point where even actual tournament teams can struggle to do so.
Worst case scenario, it's great slowdown that requires you to leave the objective to go do a sidequest. Best case scenario, it grinds the game to a halt entirely for extended periods of time while the killer camps a 3 gen or a hook. The only reason Penti hasn't been nerfed yet, I think, is because a lot of killers tend to do the former.
Either way, in both cases, it's super obnoxious to play against.
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Lithe
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Deadlock: A perk this powerful shouldn't activate without input by the killer.
DH: I still hate it and would be glad to never see this perk again.
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“Hyperfocus/Stakeout when combined speeds up generators far too much. Both perks are fine on their own.”
Both perks are useless on there own
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none of these perks are problematic tho
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Flat out nerf...
Don't know... Most seem pretty fine to me in terms of numbers.
Problematic design? There are a few. Deadlock, knock out, franklin's and forced hesitation are all very problematic in my opinion. But simply nerfing them isn't fixing the problem, that their core design is flawed.
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Hm, can you help me understand the issue with Forced Hesitation?
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It's a perk that encourages slugging, is it not? Running super slow is also not that fun.
Most importantly though, it punishes survivors for something that is already in the killers favour. Grouping up.
I think cooperative actions should be rewarded rather than punished. DBD is a team game, where finishing objectives together is worse than playing selfish / as the lone wolfe.
You could also bring up pentimento in that sense. It discourages survivors from doing secondary objectives. This being the cleansing of totems.
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Sure I can see it’s a slugging perk. Again it’s probably my inexperience but Infectious Fright feels like it does more damage than Forced Hesitation when it comes to slugging?
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all of these perks are problematic lol, there are even more that can be added here that are also dangerous for the game health, but are not as much used because average user can't get their value thanks to lack of skill fullfillment to do so.
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I should clarify that yes knockout is a problem because solo que cannot coordinate where their teammates are and it promotes bleedouts especially on indoor maps. But since when are petimento knowhere to hide and resurgence problematic? Even with something like resurgence which no one used before, it gets a buff and now it’s too strong? Or even petimento has enough counterplay already. Just strange
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Infectious Fright gives you information. What you do with that info is on you.
Some examples:
- Nobody screams tells you, that you can pick up without having to bother with flashlight saves. (Most people don't run calm spirit these days)
- Someone screams leaves you with two options. Leave the person slugged or pick up and hook.
If you pick up and hook, you risk a flashy save. BUT you know where to get into the next chase fast and what gens are being worked on. Your taking another risk however, in that the Gen could be finishes while you pick up and hook.
If you don't pick up and slug, you are also taking risks. The survivor you slugged could have anti tunnel. The guy you find could be a very solid looper, giving the team time to pick the slugged one up and maybe even heal them, making you waste and lose more time than you won.
Forces hesitation on the other hand tells you: slug! They can't loop you really, because they are slowed down so much. If you don't slug, the perk provides no real value. That's at least what my experience is.
The value tells you one direction and nothing else, whereas infectious gives you many options that do not have to result in slugging.
Maybe im missing something, but that's how I see it.
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No no thank you for laying it out.
So according to you Forced is worse because it tells you to slug. Whereas Infectious is just info that doesn’t necessarily beg for the slug. I can respect that pov. By their inherent natures it seems like Forced is more intended for slugging than Infectious.
The reason I juxtapose Infectious to Forced is because if your goal is to slug, Infectious Fright can be pretty nasty. Like really nasty. I haven’t used Forced Hesitation but I can imagine that the Hindered penalty makes it easy to slug. I just feel like Infectious gives Forced a run for its money when it comes to snowballing.
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Yeah, WA + Franklin's Demise is really annoying to go against. I don't even bring items most of the time and still have to worry about someone else's item revealing my aura.
But, like you said, it isn't as strong as some perks used to be.
this isn't hockey
This brings back some memories.
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The slowdown of forced is pretty massive. While booth perks incentivice going for someone else after downing a survivor, infectios leaves the survivor a chance, whereas forced doesnt. Thats probably my biggest issue with the perk.
In the end, it depends on what killer you are playing i think. Imagine playing against a Bubba with infectious vs a bubba with forced.
With infectious, bubba is still loopable. With forced, you just go down (at least most of the time).
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I can respect everything you wrote.
Can we agree that both are pretty brutal in the slug game?
Edit: let alone stacking these two? 😆
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I don't honestly think there are any perks I would call "overpowered" anymore, but maybe a few that can be frustrating or obnoxious to go against.
Hex: Pentimento for one, particularly when you're in solo queue and it's up to you alone to find the totems your teammates have lost.
No Way Out always seems to be a free 4K when I see it . That or it seems to always be in play when the killer is trying to let you go, like thanks but I'm stuck here... so... how's your day been?...
Franklins Demise I don't think could be nerfed without making it useless, but it's very irritating having your item deleted. If I'm using an item it's either integral to my build or I'm doing a challenge like sabo or deplete x medkits.
Windows of Opportunity is really hard to justify being 'too powerful', however chases that involve it are the most boring gameplay possible. Usually the survivor is just chaining all the pallets together, and you will catch up eventually but it's gonna be one long and dull chase.
Residual Manifest and/or Champion of Light usually means chain pallet blinds. Pallet blinds are the lowest hanging fruit, it's just pointlessly irritating the killer for a miniscule lead in chase, particularly when they always chain blind, just because they can.
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They absolutely are. I deem infectious to be absolutely fine because of the survivor agency that isn't lost as it often is with Forced.
Combo is absolutely brutal for slugging. Just add knock out for good measure and become a true monster.
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I main killer and have litteraly watched Windows melt survivors' brains. All they know is to hold w at loops.
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how do u want survivors to loop?
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I have to disagree with spirit fury. its really good for killers with no anti loop like trapper(technically he is but in mid chase its not that practical) and a way to not have a good chain looper waste your time for 5 minutes is a good thing. plus you can always predrop which a killer will always try to do as well, they do expect you to try and stun them so all spirit fury does is decrease the stun and then break pallet every 3 times. i think its in a good spot. I disagree with a couple other points made but i dont feel like typing them out right now haha
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Forced Hesi is a tad problematic, I agree with you. The slug potential gets mean.
The one thing I'll give Forced Hesitation however is that in regards to Flashlights, I feel that perk is more healthy/fun/scary/interactive than Lightborn is. Against a ttv beamer squad I think it makes for better content than just shutting off an entire item/mechanic entirely.
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Nothing really jumps out at me. I would say weave attunement but it's already scheduled for a nerf next month. I see a lot of complaints about Predator on these forums. I haven't gotten around to playing with it yet but I can understand how some killers might be a bit broken with it. But I'll have to play with it before I form an opinion. You can't trust what you read on these forums.
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I'd rather they try to mind game me, instead they just run to pallets, drop them, then run away
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That is true, but I prefer infectious in that regard.
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@theGopher But if they mind game you, they have a chance to not waste your time. If I have an under leveled survivor on my team, I'd definitely want them with WoO if they can't loop well. The perk does its job and brings the median skill level closer than if they didn't have it.
@Everyone else: All this 'braindead survivor' name calling fees like insecurity. If they're dropping all the pallets, thats a boon for you. I promise lol
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