Skull Mommy's Nerf and People still DC.
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It's what me and others have been saying this whole time before the update- No matter what BHVR does to SM it won't change a thing because a lot of players in the game have an issue with entitlement behavior where they refuse to accept any form of reality at all if it isn't their's and will just say "let's go next" the INSTANT there's something they don't like.
That's what was the biggest issue with SM before her nuking since too many survivors refused to give the match a chance and give up which then screws their team over causing them to give up as well. Imo what BHVR just needs to do is try to find a way to discourage this negative behavior from all players on both side instead so that we don't have all these kinds of problems.
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Its bias. I dont think people will ever stop. She would need to become one of the most fun character to play as and against to get rid of this mindset.
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That's what was the biggest issue with SM before her nuking since too many survivors refused to give the match a chance and give up which then screws their team over causing them to give up as well.
Well said.
This is what I was trying to explain earlier this year here on the Forums. SM wasn't even near as problematic as her release version was, and in fact she was easy to defeat, but many players didn't understand that because they would disconnect immediately.
Take this screenshot, for instance. April, iirc:
Or this one:
As long as the whole team didn't give up, there was a chance.
The problem is that many players gave up as soon as they saw her, like the Meg did, and they didn't even try.
If they decided to stick around, like the people in the second game did, they would see that she was different from the release version which everyone hated.
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That is exactly what I meant- SM was a mid-tier killer after both her rework + the gen update and was easy to beat as long as you weren't making stupid decisions that would result in you getting scanned(especially if she's already chasing another survivor).
The only things SM really needed was a reasonable/fair way to remove lock-on stacks and a way to reduce how long you have an active Claw Traps for. That was all she needed, but BHVR chose to just encourage that negative behavior from those players by nuking her instead rather than attempting to discourage it like they should've been trying to do.
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Some people are determined to quit playing against her no matter what. Still, it certainly doesn't help that most of the Dead by Daylight players I go against while using Skull Merchant is extremely toxic, even before the character was nerfed. I'm convinced that most people who play as SM are doing so to provoke a reaction from survivors and to make the game as miserable as possible for them. In my experience, this is common with SM players.
I just had a game against a SM player who kept slugging everyone, using knockout, and refusing to hook anyone for the entire game.
She finally decided to hook me just before the last survivor bled out, but I managed to escape from the basement hook (got the 4%) just before the last survivor died. The hatch spawned right beside the shack, so I was able to escape through the hatch.
This is why I am no longer playing against her anymore :)
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I've brought up a similar point before. I compared it to SWFs. People are very quick to denounce SWFs, even though statistically speaking the majoity aren't that good, nor are they very common, just like SM. But a good SWF looking to just BM the killer all match has soured SWF as a whole for alot of people, which is also the case for SM. She is like the SWF of killer when it comes to "bad reputations" It's true that not every SM plays that way, but it's also true not every SWF plays that way. That doesn't stop people from wanting to delete SWF from the game entirely, and many people have voiced a desire for some kind of way to be informed if they are playing against a SWF so they can lobby dodge, the way that survivors do in SM matches because they don't have that option in the lobby.
I don't endorse it, but I understand it.
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Yeah, I think you're right.
Unfortunately "######### sticks" is the phrase I believe and Skull Merchant is a perfect storm of bad initial reception, one of the worst unfun playstyles following the 6.1.0 patch that she happened to be one of the best at, into a rework that was passable but not good and did nothing to repair her reputation, that BHVR have now openly acknowledged and validated the revile of.
At this point it's just arguing against how people feel, not anything objective, and unfortunately there is nothing to debate in that conversation... you can't argue with how someone feels… Unfortunately that means a lot of players just don't want her to work, and aren't willing to entertain the idea of her being fixed. No amount of blood will ever be good enough.
I believe the other issue is content creators constantly make their disdain known for Skull Merchant and keep the bad public perception. Some like Scott always hated her, he's never even entertained the idea of her ever working, calling her a terrible idea that never should have seen the light from day 1. While I disagree with this assessment and it feels a little close minded, especially as Scott is normally very reasonable and fair (I would have really liked to hear his thoughts on how a drone based killer could work), at least Scott never changed his tune.
Other content creators who I won't name have changed their tune in line with the wind around Skull Merchant. They genuinely don't like her I have no doubt, but its also in their interest to keep throwing her under the bus. Anyone who did speak on her behalf at any point, even in a passing mention of giving props to an improvement, has quickly backpeddled since because it isn't worth the rift from their own fans. I won't name drop, but I do recall a few instances of players supporting Skull Merchant changes as improvements during the PTB, but then later continuing to meme on her hate train and "just delete her".
Almost all of them now refuse to acknowledge any improvements or potential for her and instead keep completely running her down and fueling the hatred of the character. It's an easy win to stay on the good side of their community rather than take a risk of supporting anything about Skull Merchant.
If I was really cynical, I'd say keeping her at hated meme of a character is easy content farming... but that's disingenuous... however I know I for one am very tired of the completely unconstructive Skull Merchant hate campaign.
I like the idea of a surveillance killer where I have to sneak past not only her, but her sensors too. The core idea of Skull Merchant is cool and different, and I just want that idea to be realised properly and be fun... However that idea can't possibly ever come into being if no one is willing to even try and explore how it can work... and that to me is really lame.
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however I know I for one am very tired of the completely unconstructive Skull Merchant hate campaign.
Same, friend. Same.
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hopefully the rework works out. But for now I still hate her. Not even about strength because Billy blight Oni pyramid head nemesis I enjoy playing vs.
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and its petty insignificant reasons
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Bubba is simple id have to say, you get touched by the saw you done yeah hes known for camping cause his power but he has no map pressure and easy to deal with at loops. So people dont hate him as much yeah he needs a QOL patch though
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Im asking alot but then how do we make her accepted? We could continue chasing reworks but players will never be happy for them wasting devs time even if they curb all the problems with her originally they'll harp on the new things. Do we Revert the changes and tell the entitled players to stuff it and make more changes to stomp out the DCs and Going next on hook epidemic or do we just delete her and ruin what few people loved about her. I am lost
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People nowadays are soft.
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By that logic Survivors should be removed because they do and still can hold the game hostage. And the state Survivors were released in.
Saying you can't forgive and forget is just plain madness. You're upset about a killer that's not even strong when Nurse exists and can do this 10x worse (she's just so good you don't have to)
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I agree 💯
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I understand the frustration, it’s a tough situation, and there are a lot of factors contributing to it. From SM gameplay mechanics to her lore and design. From the start people joked about her appearance, saying she looked more like Kris Jenner than a scary killer. And while her mask is neat and her claws, they still feel just like cosmetics that someone is wearing (wihtout having the benefit of being an iconic horror character like Myers or Ghostface) rather than something truly scary or dangerous. When you compare her backstory (a rich CEO obsessed with her father’s manga character who decided to become that character and kill people} to other killers backstories like Wraith, Nurse, Hilbilly, The Twins etc. it just feels lacking. She comes off as a spoiled rich kid who started killing one day.
Combine that with her mechanics, which made it easy to exploit 3-gen strategies, and she became both frustrating and underwhelming as a character. The problem with reworking her is that common direction suggestions you take risk her losing whatever identity she has left. If we make her drones more interactive, she ends up feels like Singularity. If we make her drones more like traps then she's Trapper. If we make her drones time out or restrict their placement so they cant be placed at loops, she becomes too much like the Knight.
And that’s kinda the problem—she’s never really stood out as her “own” killer. Her abilities feel like a patchwork of other killers, stitched together like a Frankenstein. And while other killers have similarities when compared, like Bubba to Billy, or Huntress to Trickster, they may have similar core mechanics but they both feel independent of one another and have a clear identity. The only real identity she has is being the most hated killer in DBD history.
People argue that since other killers like Nurse are stronger and more challenging, but don’t receive the same level of hate, that complaints about Skull Merchant are just entitlement. But I would argue the opposite. If it was really about entitlement, every killer would get the same kind of hate that SM has, but that’s clearly not the case. Not only has this never happened before her release but it also hasn't happened after, which I think proves that this isn't stemmed from people demanding special treatement, it's genuine dislike and frustration in every aspect.
So, to answer your question honestly, I don’t really know what the best solution is. Skull Merchant felt lackluster from the very beginning.. her design, her backstory, her mechanics, and the playstyle she encourages. I would love to see her reworked into something the community enjoys, but that would likely require a complete overhaul, not just in her base mechanics, but possibly in her design and lore too- a massive project. That being said, there are still players who enjoy her as she is, and there are people who liked those 45+ minute matches. It’s impossible to make everyone happy. But the majority has ruled in DBD for a very long time, and it doesn't make sense to make an exception here, because it doesn’t make sense to ignore the majority to please a small minority. All we can do is continye to voice our opinoins, try and communicate respectfully with one another and the Devs, and all work towards a solution together. It's nice to have the Devs even be open to changing the game this often, and I think people really take it for granted. They are listening, this is NOT the same game it used to be and it changed based on the Communities inputs. It's not unreaslitic to see a future where SM undergoes a huge change just like the game itself has over the years into something that hopefully people ennjoy to play as and against.
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People still dont understand that its not about how powerful this killer is, but how unfun the whole gameplay is.
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We all knew this was coming. The average player's entitlement knows no bounds. They don't care that she's weaker. They're just set in their ways and don't want to face a killer that requires strategy and teamwork to beat. You'll never get rid of this mindset by appeasing these people, which the devs have tried and failed to do. They'll just ask for nerfs until there's nothing left to challenge them.
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So we might as well return her to peak strength, right? Because people are just gonna DC anyway.
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Legion's not unfun either. Like Skull Merchant, he requires strategy and teamwork to beat. You literally just stay injured vs him and he has no power, and when he does use his power, just put as much distance between you and your team as you can so he doesn't get value. This is elementary stuff, but people constantly heal and group up against him.
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If she's just an M1 killer then she should be no problem. Just loop her. So that's incorrect. She's a tad more than an M1.
She only had 2 issues. One was that she got speed against the whole team for 1 survivor messing up. She could just have Haste only when chasing the survivor who recently got scanned, or has a claw trap on them. Her speed made her unique as a non-cloak, non-rushing M1. It should have stayed, using my idea or similar.
The other issue is that her scan marks stayed on survivors forever. That's like Trickster's knives never disappearing, or Vecna's dispelling orb lasting forever.
Just fix those issues and she'd be fine. But no, people have to act like she's a boogeyman who can't be beat and can't be fixed. It's funny how we don't think that about any other killer; we look for actual solutions. This recent nerf is just kicking the can down the road, and is way overkill.
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Really has nothing to do a with any of that. I just won't let BHVR live this down. She could be made amazing and super fun. And then I'd maybe give it a shot, but it wont change my thoughts about her and what we had to go through.
Her changes have no impact on my thoughts towards SM. No state of being will make her likeable. So keep talking about your thoughts as you are with your reasoning, and know there is no reason at all.
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