Early preview at possible Trickster update (Official)
Comments
-
So you've just proved my point. A 110% speed Trickster won't be better designed either way as the majority of people didn't consider him as such when he was, whether to play him or against.
2 -
Not really. 110 Trickster wasn't perfect but I still think it was far better design than his current iteration. 110 Trickster had more skill expression and more counterplay, and in exchange, he needed less blade hits to injure a survivor and (with gradual ramp-up) he had a faster throw rate than he does now. He also had recoil back then which they specifically said they wouldn't reimplement, so that's a buff to him as well. But we can agree to disagree.
8 -
I don't personally like the idea of reverting Trickster, he was extremely weak before and this just looks like a revert but you keep the QOL without actually buffing him to not be dog water. Not a good idea imo, maybe I just enjoy him being 115 but I really don't like the idea of going back to being the lowest kill rate killer again.
8 -
making him 110% is a death sentence for him imo
9 -
Guys, When people ask for 4.4 Trickster back is that means " the old Trickster" not necessarely his 4.4 movement speed . He had a lot of nerf after his rework especiallu about throw rate and people say "revert to 4.4 Trickster" meaning about other changes. Its obvioulsy Trickster is better with 4.6 speed. Now trickster lost his identity, he is a M1 killer able to launch some knifes and in the a lot of cases is better not throw knifes because u lose space against survivor and need 16knifes to down. Trickster still slow throwing knifes and when main event is active. 4.6 is better because help him to navegate around the map or some loops.
3 -
Huntress and Deathslinger are able to make you lose a healthy state instantly when they get you. Trickster needs more time and time to make this, He is not in the same bowl. Like now, Huntress and Deathslinger still more effective than Trickster even Trickster being 4.6 actually.
6 -
Agreed the main problem is Main event spam 8 is to little and 30 is to much i believe 24 would be a fair nerf but also increase the duration ME can be held.
Please dont Nerf the 4.6ms Devs you can keep the rest of the nerfs
0 -
First time im gonna have to respectfully disagree with you my friend the problem wasn't the 4.6ms it was the addons that boost his ms while holding and throwing knives furthermore his main problem was the Main Event Spam nerfing it down to 24 (6 health states) will make him feel alot more fair so he should retain the 4.6ms he'll be terrible to play as. Devs are adding alot more clutter to maps so survs can break LOS more easily and dodge ranged attacks better.
Finally Devs are increasing the Laceration meter and decreasing the time it takes for Laceration to Decay these nerfs are more than fair enough to make Trickster feel way less oppressive i respectfully ask as a fellow freddy enjoyer who can relate a killer falling from fun to change your mind on getting rid of 4.6ms and try these other nerfs first instead
0 -
i agree with your confusion however the major difference is in lethality both DS and Huntress hits are one shots but tricksters isnt with his Main event being nerfed back down to 30 (8 health states worth) 8 was (2 health states worth) to activate is gonna massively nerf his lethality already furthermore we can't really negotiate it to be like 16 although i wish since Majority of Survivors complaints is ME Spam.
Inconclusion to prevent Trickster from being completely terrible to play as he has to retain his 4.6 we can also nerf his Movespeed addons while holding and throwing Knives to feel less opressive in chase.
2 -
bro im sorry but "ghostface mechanic if it was good" is not good imagine if i just look at Ghostface for .5 secs and then look away and im still somehow revealing him for 3secs and break him outta even if he breaks Los and hides cause of the buffer that is such a bad idea worser then original ptb ghostface
0 -
I'm p100 huntress 4.6 normally would be insanely oppressive with no drawbacks at all. All safe loops for survivors ( tall walls, long ish loops become terribly unsafe
2 -
Yep! I don't know how or why so many Trickster players say that 4.4 movement speed for him was "perfectly fine."
IT
WAS
NOT4.4 on Trickster was not a "good" movement speed for him, especially on the larger maps where he was rendered next to useless, especially at all loops where you'd get rolled. And given that there seems to be a new philosophy with adding random useless clutter on the maps, he'll only get worse if they revert him back to 4.4.
I am convinced anyone who says that "4.4 is fine" is a fake Trickster player or only played him a handful of times, and are deliberately trying to skew the feedback so he gets gutted like Skerchant.6 -
that's my impression as well. to be fair, there is a trickster player that i saw a youtube video on which his entire youtube video was that trickster should be tap-fire character and that current trickster is "ruined" for tap-firing which is not true, you can still tap-fire with him and because said play-style was not relevant, the video was like…revert trickster. like dev can make an add-on on old trickster.
the add-on reads following:
main event disabled
increased fire-rate delay from 0.3 →0.33
reduced knife count of laceration by -2.
there you go. you get tap-fire trickster and no rapid fire at all. i don't know why this would be good change but that is exactly what old trickster was. main event was largely irrelevant. rapid-fire play was ineffective and he was worst ranged option killer in the game, save few trickster players like Wackey who made him work due to incredible aim & +1000 hours on character.
1 -
I know that 44 is in concept as the number for Trickster.
44 knives, Lullaby Radius 44 m...
Movement Speed of 4.4m/s is cool as a concept, but 4.4m/s is incredibly weak.I say this as a P100 Trickster, but even if you master the current Trickster, its strength is about average for a killer.
4K is possible, but it's not easy.Even at 4.4m/s, I think you can do 4K, but it will be even more difficult.
People who like old Trickster just want to make cool clips and don't care about game balance.
Same as huntless user.1 -
Agree to disagree on this one. I don't think Trickster is fine as a 4.6 m/s killer.
3 -
I don't really care if he's 4.4 or 4.6 or takes 3 knives to injure or 500 knives to injure. I just want a deadzone option for controller so you can actually line up your shots properly.
2 -
Since there is already a conflict, there will be a big backlash against maintaining the status quo or reverting to 4.4.
The best solution is to maintain the current speed and use an add-on to change it to 4.4m/s.
This shouldn't be a problem since we have implemented add-ons that change MovementSpeed for hug, Billy, Shape, nurse, huntless, etc.1 -
It's kind of funny. Before his changes, it felt like EVERYONE wanted him to be a 115% Killer. Some because his power struggled in high loops, others because his ranged attack wasn't strong enough to compensate for his lack of mobility, and some because he straight up DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A SLOW CHARACTER.
However, once he became 115%, this suddenly "destroyed his character" and many people (or at least a vocal minority) have been clamoring .
Related to the actual proposal, I'd be fine with knocking how long Main Event builds up a tad, since it is a bit much, but I REALLY don't like this push towards reverting reworks because of a loud minority. It already happened with Sadako, and it took away an ACTUALLY unique Killer that required a different way to play against (and was actually one I enjoyed playing as during her short existence) and was ACTUALLY fairly strong that just needed some tweaks, and returned her to a boring M1 Killer with barely a power that is so non-threatening that Survivors literally don't even interact with it half the time.
I think Trickster is fine as is, other than tweaking Main Event a little bit.
2 -
It's a little confusing because a lot of their "current" stats in the post are actually wrong, like his main even is already 1.66x, not 1.33, and his laceration isn't 10s, it's 15s. It seems like they're pulling old data from somewhere.
What I'd like to see is this: Keep everything the same as it is now, but change/revert this:
- 6 blades to injure instead of 8
- Old throwrate, rampup and movespeed slowdown when throwing blades instead of static 0.3 throwrate and no movespeed slowdown for throwing blades
- Revert Soda and Autograph to speed up rampup like you mentioned
- Revert Memento Blades either to old BP bonus or extra combo, both are bad effects anyway but it's okay for it to be a bad/meme addon
- 20 blades for main event instead of 8 as it is now or 30 as it was before, old main event throwrate (unsure if that's 1.66 like it is currently or lower)
- Combo no longer increases main event duration
- Reduce base ammo to 40 from 44 to make spamming blades slightly more punishing
I like that he's 115%. It makes him unpredictable and gives him the option to either go for M2, or go for M1 at loops where using power is rough, like tiles with tall walls, and it helps his mobility and ability to catch up to survivors that prerun. It's unique to the ranged killers if you don't count artist, and makes him more fun to play without really making him any more frustrating to play against. Most complaints about his current chase are about his knives anyway and main event, not that he's 115.
Remember that Trickster was quite weak before the rework, and part of that was that he was 110. In some ways he's stronger now, some ways weaker, but I think with these changes he'd be slightly less "spammy" and annoying to go against, while keeping some of his post-rework strengths intact like 115 and no recoil, and reverting the things that weren't well received like 8 blades to down and 8 blade main event.
0 -
may i ask why there seems to be a general shift towards Reddit as a main platform for Feedback?
I mean, I get why Reddit is a good Platform for this (many active users, seemingly of diverse skill/knowledge ranges etc.) and i appreciate a shift away from Twitter, but wouldnt it be still possible to have an official thread for this topic here on the official forums as well as there are many users here that don’t want to create a Reddit Account just for DbD?
5 -
The data on these forums is really bad, because these forums are very small (compared to reddit), and a few Trickster mains posted giant posts on these forums, where they claimed that Trickster mains have a consensus, and they all want the rework reverted. And too many people on these forums actually believed them.
Because if you go to Reddit, you'll notice there actually are a lot of Trickster mains that want 4.6 Trickster to stay. There never was a Trickster consensus. But too many people on these forums have the attitude of "I believe Trickster mains all want the rework reverted, so I'm going to support them".
…And Twitter/X isn't moderated enough to be good for data. Like half the comments are completely unrelated to the topic, and it's so bad that it's not worth trying to clean up.
1 -
And no more insta main event, I hope they make these changes happen. 🙏🏻
2 -
You are very focused on the strength of the killer, but what really matters is how it feels to play as and against. There are plenty of low-tier killers that I hate playing against (e.g. Ghost Face), low-tier killers I love playing as and against (e.g. Myers), high-tier killers that are horrendous to play against (e.g. Chucky), and high-tier killers that I think are a lot of fun (e.g. Huntress, Nurse, Spirit). For both sides it's about how the power feels to interact with and how much agency you feel you have in a chase. It has nothing to do with skill unless you just aren't aware of how to use the power or of counters that do exist.
I would argue that the proposed Trickster changes are an improvement, while Unknown and Artist are poorly designed and unhealthy.
Edit: I really need to finish reading the replies before I comment lol
0 -
This.
I really don't wanna go to Reddit in order to leave feedback. From what I've seen it is not a good platform for discussions, and I don't like that.
I would like to stay here and also offer feedback, if possible.
For real. I'm tired of Trickster being miserable to play against.
8 -
Where are these proposed Artist and Unknown changes? I don’t use Reddit and I’m struggling to find them.
0 -
Ah sorry, that was just bad phrasing on my part! I meant Unknown and Artist as they exist currently.
1 -
So far, it appears the Reddit comments are in the following groups..
- People that want Trickster to stay 4.6
- People that want the Trickster rework to be reverted, because they think this would be a nerf, and they want Trickster to be nerfed
- People that want Trickster to be reverted because they think “it’s what Trickster players want”
- People that want Trickster to be reverted because they actually think the killer was more fun to play as, before the rework.
- People that want Trickster to be reverted, because they want their favorite (not Trickster) killer’s changes to be reverted too.
Groups 1 and 2 are by far the most popular responses. This is interesting because it shows the majority of people actually think Trickster would be nerfed if the rework was reverted.
3 -
Do you think a revert would be a nerf? You made it sound otherwise.
0 -
I personally think a revert would be a large nerf. Trickster was heavily nerfed by the map reworks, when BHVR decided to add way more line of sight blockers to the maps. He needs to be 4.6 speed, to deal with the heavily increased number of loops where he literally can’t use his knives.
And Trickster needs to have lots of main events, because it’s the only time he has any basekit 2v1, 3v1, or 4v1 ability. If Trickster isn’t in main event, then it’s extremely easy for other survivors to heavily extend chase times by bodyblocking Trickster.
Current Trickster is objectively better at higher MMR than pre-rework Trickster. He can currently better at winning games.
4 -
I’m pretty sure, they will reduce the main event to 24knives or a bit lower if he gets reverted, so it would be more available. 8 is far too low and 30 too high.
A thing I want them to try at least is 4.5m/s speed, it would be a nice middle ground and maybe we get more killers with different speeds, which I find interesting.
While the reworked maps have a lot more clutter, they also became a lot weaker and smaller, which overall makes them easier to deal with for him than it was in the past.
6 knives to injure and the old throwing system was stronger and more useful than what we have now in my opinion. 4.6ms makes his m2 is often less worthy than a m1, which kinda defeats the purpose of his ability and 4.4ms encourages to use his power, which l enjoy more to play around.I’m pretty sure if they revert him he will get some more changes, that help him out.
1 -
I think the main takeaway is that when BHVR collects data from the Reddit post, they need to look at why each comment was made.
It wouldn't be good to just tally the number of comments that want to keep 4.6, and compare them to the number of comments that want to revert 4.6, because this whole experiment is to discover if people think Trickster is more fun to PLAY AS before or after the rework. When people want the rework reverted because they want Trickster nerfed, that shouldn't count as a vote for "thinks Trickster was more fun to PLAY AS before the rework".
In fact, when collecting data based on Trickster being fun to PLAY AS, many of the Reddit comments aren't actually answering this question. Comments like "current Trickster is miserable to PLAY AGAINST", or "Trickster needs to be nerfed", aren't even discussing whether or not current Trickster is fun to PLAY AS.
2 -
Unlike the Huntress and Deathslinger, who can reliably deal damage from long distances, the Trickster needs to chase fleeing Survivors, close the distance and hit them with multiple knives, so I think reducing his movement speed to 4.4m is a terrible nerf.
3 -
Everyone cheering for this, you realize these kinds of changes are why you end up going against all Blights and Weskers right? Nerfing a killer into the dirt is just going to drive people back to the stronger killers.
4 -
You'd think people realise this, but they don't until all they face are Huntress, Blight, Nurse, Wesker, etc. Basically the same killers over and over because they keep demanding the niche killers be nerfed into oblivion simply because "they're not fun to play against."
At least With Trickster, he has to work for a down if he doesn't have clear LoS, unlike Huntress who can hit you with her hatchets at a tight loop because she yeets mini-fridges at you.
0
