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Comparing dbds leaver penalties to other games.
Considering overwatch just upped their dc penalty recently to ban you for up to a whole season. I went through a couple of games to see how their penaltys stack up to dbds. (None of these have a go next button like giving up on hook) I choose 3 games to start and if anyone has any other games they'd like to add they can.
Since this update blizzard has announced their leaver rate dropped by 90% meaning you rarely see a person just hop out of the match anymore. Their dc penalty just ramps up way faster than dbds does, and afking and griefing are strictly bannable (same as dbds)
Rainbow six siege even went further to give you a actual title based on how you play the game.
And the title restricts how long your penaltys are and what you can do in the game as well as you basically walk around with that title for others to see. So go nuts I guess. I haven't played this game in a while but I know after like 3 dcs in the same day when I last played it was like a week ban. And since this new system their leave rate has dropped by a good amount.
League has something called the leaverbuster which they use to keep people in matches and if they want to leave they won't be viewed as the same as others for que times. So if people want to leave, they can. Just the people who commit will probably get faster matches than they do.
These games don't even have the option to abandon early like the hook system. So they mostly punish for afking,griefing, and dcing. (Sound familiar?) And they come with their own flaws as well. I don't see why dbd wouldn't be able to follow this example and see a benefit as well. And i rarely see complaints with these systems because "i wanna play and leave when I want" coming up. People act like improving stuff in the game will stop people from leaving in most cases (though I've seen people go next on unrelenting freddy). I personally think removing the die on hook system and increasing the dc penalty ramp up will do just the same.
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I think the penalty for unranked modes you have shown are less harsh, at the beginning, than DBD's penalty. There are no dc's with just a warning, but the starter one is only like 30 seconds I think.
That does not do anything for letting go on hook but I'm also not sure what they can really do about that. Forcing someone to just sit on hook, with nothing to do, would feel like sitting in queue... after sitting in queue.
They could make a mini game like skull merchants drones. Then make sitting on hook, and playing the mini game, worth a lot of blood points or something. Or, they could make the mini game a healing mechanic. Play the game and slowly gain on the health bar. It could even be made to work with perks like deliverance. Hit a certain number of prompts and deliverance activates. This way it isn't a wasted perk if you can't get an unhook.
As it stands I don't mind sitting on hook but it's because I can at least try to 4% if my teammates just leave me hanging. Give me a mini game and I might not pay as much attention to what my teammates are doing. Especially if I'm still gaining from it in some way.
That being said, many games do have a forfeit option as well. Maybe trying both ways would be worth it.
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I feel rainbow six was the most interesting to research because they actually give you a full on reputation that changes how you play the game because the game basically realizes your a leaver. Your not afforded the same benefit of the doubt. Your penalties are harsher. You try to grief and kill a teammate all the damage is reflected to you. And you get longer que and less renown for playing. As well as having the title to show other people your just a bad sport.
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Honestly DCs are way too common in this game, and that’s not even counting the hook suicide. It really kills all the fun of everybody else including Killer. It’s so damn boring.
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They really just need to implement a dc/early suicide pool for matchmaking. The serial quitters shouldn’t have any complaints since they keep DCing so I don’t see why they don’t do this.
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As a Killer, both disconnecting and going AFK in a match will result in a penalty (and rightfully so). But as a Survivor, you can give up on the first hook just 30 seconds into a match with no consequences, and cherry-pick lobbies as much as you want, completely ruining the experience for everyone else. I’m not sure why they half-measured this penalty, when a Survivor giving up is far more impactful than a Killer doing so, since you’re then stuck in an unwinnable match.
They need to either start giving harsher penalties to players like this, or put them in their own queue so they don’t bother those who actually play to try.
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It's funny that you mention LoL, because it has this:
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The thing that always gets me about people that DC, is when they DC when they are on death hook after being downed. I mean c'mon at that point just wait 5 seconds to be hooked and get your bloodpoints!
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Notice the votes needed vs one singular player deciding they don't wanna play anymore. Not against the idea. Itd be still better than current "I want out screw my team". That's why I upvoted someone suggesting it. The first response actually.
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It would be great if BHVR implemented harsher DC penalties and/or some other kind of system to punish people more for giving up in matches, but I don't think it's ever going to happen. People have been complaining about it for years and the devs haven't done anything about it, so I've given up hope.
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I don't think there's a problem with the current DC penalty times, the problem is that is not how people leave the game, they leave by dying on hook.
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Yes, at this point I think we need to harsher DC penalties.
I had so many teammates give up yesterday and it ruined so many matches where we clearly had a chance.
If you aren't going to play the game, then don't click "Play". It is that simple.
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Valorant is another game with a really good DC penalty system. It'll actively keep track of how often you abandon your team by disconnecting from the match and if it detects that you don't do it often then it just lets you know that you aren't gonna be punished and just reminds you to not do it often. If you start to DC too much they'll start giving you matchmaking penalties(I don't think it increases though) and will start recommending to correct your behavior. If you continue that behavior it'll start depriving you of match rewards entirely on top of the matchmaking penalties and will start advising you to immediately correct your behavior(instead of just reminding you like previously). And, finally, if your behavior just keeps going on for too long you'll just be banned outright due to the many warnings(and I'm pretty sure it's a perma-ban as well).
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I think it's also another game that also has a surrender/forfeit option as well.
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Played 2 games as Doc earlier after a YouTube vid got me in the mode for it. Neither game lasted long at all due to leavers. First game had 2 ppl suicide on first hook next to each other, which was followed by a DC. 2nd game had a person who was AFK, then DCed...followed by 2 more DCes.
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Pig games of mine were similar.
One match, steamrolled because Pig is my least played killer so I like to diversify my builds to try and find something I like.
Next match? 2 DCs on first down after 3 gens pop on The Game. Followed by a third waiting at the exit gate and getting crows.4 -
It is- In Valorant everyone gets the ability to call a surrender vote and, for the vote to go through, you'd need the team's mass majority(4/5 people voting yes) and, if the vote were to fail then anyone who voted "yes" would lose their ability to start another vote up, but anyone who voted "no" would get the ability to start up another surrender vote if they changed their mind.
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I wouldn't mind seeing them try this. My only issue is that in some games I play, if someone doesn't vote to forfeit, the person who initiated it usually goes afk or hides off in a corner anyway. Though most times people just continue playing normally.
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Is there a minimum time limit for that? Would hate for teams to start shopping for killers by starting a vote as soon as they load in.
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Im not sure about valorant but when I was playing rocket League you had to wait for I think 90 seconds before anyone could initiate a vote. Those games are capped at 5 minutes though, unless the game goes into overtime. So it may need to be a little longer here. I'm sure the time would have to be tried and adjusted for both the killer and survivor side.
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Rainbow Six's Standard mode gives you an hour penalty when leaving for any reason. Standard and Quick Match are both "unranked".
That said, there isn't actually an unranked mode for DBD. It's all ranked.
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Decided to hop on again and play a dumb low TR build on Chucky... 3 suicides and 1 DC. Ironically the bot got hatch. I don't think I'm going to be able to play a whole game today.
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Everything you just wrote doesnt matter. Bhvr. is not going to do what you want because they know survivors will stop playing if they are trapped in every unwinnable game in this horribly balanced game. If you want to play baby easy mode you'll have to put up with it, if Bhvr. ever actually balances both sides properly then maybe anyone that matters would give your proprosal the time of day. Its funny reading the circle jerk of killer mains comparing this game to actually balanced games
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A lot to unpack there. Firstly, i'm not even a killer main i started on survivor back in 2017 and have been playing strictly 50/50 since the start.
So i know how the game was back in its original states without any dc penalty and even more options for both sides to absolutely destroy each other. I also know most of the people commenting on this post also are mostly either 50/50 players or still play at least some survivor so calling it a "Killer circle—jerk" is just wrong when you don't even know to what ratio which side we all play. Secondly. None of the games i mentioned are balanced at all. Overwatch just had a few of its most controversial patches yet, Rainbow Six is known as dropping the ball pretty much every patch as well. And league has its pitfalls as well. They just don't let people exit the game and ruin perfectly good matches. It is reasonable for most of us that play in general (Actually even more as survivors because killers don't care about free kills though it does ruin the fun of a game about purely chasing) have seen the stresses of having a perfectly fine match be a landslide because that one survivor that got downed by Unrelenting Freddy once decided to go next. So i would not defend it with just "oh its because the games unbalanced" because most give ups are before anything even majorly happens in the match. Just like instant DC's. And i personally don't care if BHVR acts on this post or not. Its a general discussion after all. But i want to see improvement in my survivor and killer games where people actually play out their matches instead of deciding they want to throw perfectly fine matches because of whatever reason. The major suggestion removing the purposeful die on hook system. Because no other game allows you to do it. Then if the survivor wants to still get out. They have a leave game button to do so. No point of making the bot system just for people to jump ship and still strand their team anyway. Wouldn't you agree?
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You said a lot there but I would just say no matter how unbalanced overwatch or rainbow six is they are still way more balanced then dbd. And just a question, are you saying they should take away the abiity to kill go next on hook but then also remove the d/c penalty?
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what exactly is fun anymore in ragebaiting people with those cheap "survivor unplayable, killer easy mode" punchlines? You are way too obsessed with actually trying to just straight piss people off, knowing you are exaggerating it so much rather than trying to make some rational takes.
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If they want to test it that it is a option. I would not be opposed to that approach. It was frankly a waste of resources to make the whole bot system to address dcs making landslide victories for killers because it didn't leave a survivor in the match to help the team. But then people jump ship to dying on hook giving their team no bot anyway. Other games like I mentioned don't have the bot system so DCs have to be met with the harshest penaltys available. DBD is not that same game. I do think we could still use a penalty but it could be not as heavy handed. Because chronic dcs that just do it every game isn't helping anyone ofc. Because then idk how even they are having fun at that point.
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this game has too many problems to make the penalties harsher for leaving
Like for example. Even today I played vs an unknown player who was really good and I died. It was a streamer I followed and I asked them why did they hit me on the hook in a jokingly way and they were really upset with how the match went. The next game they went ahead and used that same slug build and bleed out two people while the other people she found slugged got hooked. Would I like to see them remove the ability to leave matches? Yeah ofc but the game has so many problems. And bhvr I don’t really see going through with it
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Well i could be wrong but i think if they just get rid of the penalty completely people will be dcing even more than they are now. I truly believe the giving up epidemic is a symptom of the state of the game and Bhvr. should work on fixing that.
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I mean I've seen give ups for a variety of reasons. Some being because frankly their own fault. Like me hitting a survivor. They get a speed burst. Immedately run into a wall or get stuck on something because they weren't looking where they were going. "Oop going next" or they just ran a loop wrong. Or they were found first. Ect. It's kinda funny tbh.
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Well I mean people will dc for whatever reason. In my games the majority of the time it happens the game was most likely unwinnable though.
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And its the most ABUSED THING EVER Smite has this too and in both games the leavers who lose majority vote just spam it over and over until the Devs had to add a 5-10 min surrender vote cooldown to shut them up.
Were not repeating history.
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Thing about those games is youre trapped in a game for a long time, in dbd if you up the dc penalty people will just die on hook.
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My hot take is the only thing that should change about the DC penalty is if you reach a certain threshold (That already exist) it prevents you from participating in special events.
Anything further than that is unnecessary when survivors can just suicide on hook or people can AFK or "pretend" to be playing by holding W around the map as killer doing victory laps. Stronger DC penalties won't do anything and honestly I prefer people DC'ing over the alternative which is suiciding on hook as survivor or killer just AFK'ing.
Want the game to be better?
Remove the ability to self unhook unless you have a perk, addon or offering for it, encourage the killer to not give up and AFK and grey out the Disconnect button the first few moments reminding players what they are doing.
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15 Minutes after match begin (except when someone didn't load in) and needs a 4/5 majority to go through.
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Just to clear something up I am not advocating for no dc penalty. I just want Bhvr. to make the game a little more fair. Im not even saying make it 50/50. Sometimes just a slight change can make a big difference. I dunno maybe for one idea they can fix things that completely destroy solo que but have barely any effect on swf's. I have a lot of ideas but I'm not the developer. One thing I know is that "punishing" survivors and forcing them to stay in games they are trying get out of would both not work and in addition probably just hasten the decline of the game.
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
I will never be OK with receiving a penalty for leaving a game when your teammates can actively work against you. I literally just had a Dwight that did everything in his power to lead the killer to everyone other than him because he was a scared little coward. No reason you should ever get a penalty for leaving a match like that.
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In Valorant they don't let you start it right off the rip- In Valorant you have to play through at least 2 rounds to start a surrender vote before the 3rd round can begin
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Leaving isn't always voluntary at times. I had 1 night where spectrum was being worse then normal and had 5 games that dropped cause of it, some at start some much later in and a good round that i had at lest 26kBP before the cake offering, and was witting out the timer. last one was like 2 hours so i logged out.
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in valorant if you lose, every one in the team lose lp
in DBD if i die, and you survive , only me lose mmr.
as long as you dont win/lose mmr as team someppl will go next to just try to rank up1 -
Nor is AFK. I wound up with a stomach bug that came over me suddenly. So we were playing a few matches and then we were starting one and my bowels said oh no there is only ONE thing that you’re gonna be doing right now. Then, about an hour later, it happened again which made me realize I had something going on. Obviously I just called it a night having two games that I couldn’t even do anything but be away on the toilet. Luckily, I was with friends who understood why I needed to be away, but it just as easily could’ve happened in solo queue, where no one would’ve had any idea why I was not participating.
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Overwatch is free to play. They have to be harsher because people can make new accounts. At the very least it'll slow down trolls, but not stop them.
Idk anything about seige, but league on the other hand is strict on playing as a team and you win or lose together. There's no hatch to escape, and if someone dies early they'll just respawn. Lets also not ignore popularity or the fact that league is also a free to play game.
Both games have strict ranking systems showing that they take people's time seriously and both games are free to play, and both games have huge popularity discrepancies between dbd. They are not on the same level. If dbd enforces such strict rankings they could risk massively reducing their player base.
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I wonder if them taking the unhook self option out unless camped to where your bar is full can be done or if you have an unhook yourself perk like deliverance or sables basement unhook perk. If they have no way to rip on hook and no way to struggle, it will keep them in game more. This forces them to leave a bot and the system and identify them leaving which in turn will give them the warnings and penalties effectively. And if they afk they will be forced to dc and gain a penalty because of afking
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And that's not even reportable for some reason. You can't have such an easy way of giving up in a game with such an entitled playerbase and have it not be bannable.
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There's no reason why they shouldn't remove it other than having to rework luck and slippery meat.
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That should be bannable too??? I don't see how bad behavior excuses bad behavior.
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