Another patch another miserable experience for players
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I mean there's too many factors involved for me to know without making it my full time job to analyze the game. I will say for just one example they keep making the maps worse filling them with unsafe loops and deadzones. Another example would be them adding all these aura reading perks but also nerfing distortion. I know you can say well this killer perk and this killer were nerfed as well, but thats why im saying you need to use some circumstancial evidence to see which side actually has the advatage in the game. In this case that evidence would be things like the statistical advatage killer has as well as the fact that the dc and hook suicding epidemic is worse now then it was when there wasnt even a penalty for dcing. Now maybe the problem is just with the mmr system, but I have a hunch that even though that is part of the problem it probably goes deeper than that.
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I've read most of the arguments, from everybody.
It boils down to a thing: inexperience and misunderstanding of statistics. (Plus the naivety of taking top players as example, ignoring the same top players of the opposite side)
If you believe a role is easy and want to back it up, just play that role and keep winning.
I guarantee you whatever role you chose, you'll learn relatively fast that you were wrong.
On another hand, if you don't want to "show us" then don't expect being taken seriously.
Me? I don't believe any role is easy. It's fine though.
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Maps: While some have become what you said, just as many are the opposite (off hand we can think of about 6 and arguably 7 maps unless your definition of unsafe is a long the lines of "m1 killer can't do anything about it"). That's also not counting how some maps are beneficial or detrimental to certain killers. Offerings aside, it's RNG and affects both roles.
Aura/Distortion: You do have a point in that it does make it harder to stealth but at the same time there are tells for many aura reading perks. People don't need distortion to stealth, it's just easier with it.
In this case that evidence would be things like the statistical advatage killer has as well as the fact that the dc and hook suicding epidemic is worse now then it was when there wasnt even a penalty for dcing.
What statistical advantage can you use to confirm it's easy though? As we've previously said, that 60/40 has its own variables that don't tell the roles difficulties. The DC and Hook swinging is a player problem and shouldn't be counted as a "real" match ("real match" defined as: everyone playing and making a effort to escape/kill). Meanwhile yes DCs and hook swings make playing killer easier when it happens, but does that make the role itself easy?
We don't think MMR is a issue with this for reasons no one will listen to, but that's a different topic we think.
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You're so beyond wrong about that its insane. Playing survivor is the easiest stress free ######### on the planet. Gen speeds are so unbalanced that if the killer doesnt bring 3-4 slowdown, you can pop 5 gens within 4 minutes. You don't even need to be good at looping, a 4 pallet chase is 3 gens done.
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I mean you can downplay the statistical advantage all you want but its the only truly objective measure so..
Also the devs have literally said they want the killer to be the stronger role. I'm not even saying thats wrong, but they have gone a bit too far making survivor especially solo que feel too oppressive. Sometimes even slight changes can make a big difference. And as for dcs and hook suicides, I look at that as more an indicator of the problem, whether it makes killer easier or not is not really the point. Mmr is definitely an issue in my opinion as well because there seems be no rhyme or reason who I get matched with. I can be on a winning streak and get matched with brand new players and killers, then on a losing streak match with expert players. I mean we can argue about this forever but the spate of survivors giving up; if it just bratty baby survivors why is it worse now than it has ever been from most accounts, including even times when there was no d/c penalty.
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I mean
Well the statistics say otherwise. And also the devs say killer is the "power role" so are they lying? Like I said in my other reply I dont even necesarily disagree with that, I just think solo que has gotten a little too oppressive. It will definitely repel new players, that's for sure.
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Well if I started playing killer everyone will just be like "you're not in high mmr yet." When I started playing this game I played.pretty much all killer fpr hundreds of hours, but apparently I wasnt in high mmr. So I just want to know how long do I have to play getting mostly 3 and 4k's until I am "high mmr."
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When you cite insane winstreaks, they call them outliers. (Even though no comparable streaks happen for survivors.)
When you cite averages they'll call them misleading. (These really are a good metric because you can clearly see it change from closer to 50% to pushing 60%, or higher on some killers)
If you post yourself playing killer and winning they'll call you an outlier or not high mmr.
There's no evidence you could provide that they will accept.
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Thank you for typing this out. I was having a chuckle to myself thinking the same thing.
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Usually if you get something like a 50 merciless streak on one single killer, you'd be sure get high enough MMR. (I doubt you'll need that many but MMR isn't too reliable.)
(Never give hatch, it'll slow you down.)
It needs to be on a single killer though, as you probably know, you have a different MMR per killer. Chose a good one for this experiment. I don't recommend the Nurse though, unless you feel you are proficient enough with her.
Don't hesitate playing harshly either, whatever is needed to win: go all in.
The reason we are so sure survivors will wipe the floor with you (lowering your MMR, giving you easier ones) is because any proficient killer here has experienced it.
I play both roles but on the killer side I play mostly the Nurse. I've got more than 40K registered blink attacks with her (that's a bit more than five years's worth) so I'm quite decent.
I still get my ass kicked regularly. A bad map, a group with perks/tactics that aren't a good fit for me … it's pretty easy to lose. And that's without having to chase all players who know how to exploit every single weakness of that killer. (Usually Nurse main themselves.)
Good luck.
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Competent SWFs win 40% of the time, no?
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The statistics your following, the 60/40 kill rate if we're correct, does not explain the how it got there like we've said. Is it around there? Yes, but is it because killer is easy despite survivors best efforts or is it because of drits whom keep giving in at the slightest inconvenience and throwing the rest to the wolves? Were it the first we'd might be inclined to agree killer is easy, were it the second then we'd disagree. Unless you got some official breakdown we don't know about we can't in good (relatively speaking) conscious follow this for role difficulty.
We think the opposite in that the DC and swinging is part of the problem. It makes the survivor role artificially harder and plays hail Mary with the MMR which is why (we think mind you) that you see no rhyme or reason. It only counts escapes or kills so a survivor who's good but keep getting swinging teams and keeps dying due to them will fall till they either get teams that pull their own weight or killer who are leagues below them and things like that. That's not even going into swfs but by the entity we went on a useless rant didn't we.
As to why it's worse now is probably cause the quality of people went down, but that's pessimistic so we'll go with wdk. And no, it was worse when the penalty was gone, we can currently at least go 5 matches on average without someone quitting in the first minute.
The devs wanting to make killer the stronger role does not mean they made it easy.
We've also just realized everything here is everyone's opinions and people, us included, are debating it like facts that killer is easy or not.
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For the past 3 months, I have been recording my match history with Nightlight and have played mostly killer. (around 240 games) Somewhat earlier than when I found out about it is when I returned to DBD after years. Over this time period, the amount of 4Ks and how many 4Ks in a row gets lower as the games become more recent. This is my MMR plateauing, as I'm facing survivors that are capable of escaping vs me with few hooks more frequently. At this point I 1K as frequently as I 4K, and similarly, 4Ks are frequently because 1 survivor just gives up and its a 1v3, while 1-0K are frequently when I play against survivors I can't even get 5 hooks vs. These are my stats alone, not reflective of the game at large, but its clear to me at least killer is not nearly the power role people claim. I feel the games being harder than before, its not imaginary.
Claiming killers will invent any excuse to ignore "evidence" is ignoring the conversation and saying "HA I win, you disagree with me thus you're wrong." and well, ironically exactly what you claim everyone else does.1 -
So who is your best killer and what is your kill rate over those games (if that's trackable on Nightlight idk)?
Evidence was given previously in the form of large scale average results (kill rate), as well as high end outlier performance (winstreaks). Both of these point were ignored with no evidence presented as a counter.
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my top 7 most played killers (around 25 games played each) sit at 80% kill rate. Across all games 50% are 4K, 20% 3K, 10% 2K, 8% 1K, 5% 0K. However similar to how I don't find BHVR's kill rates an objective indicator of killer strength due to how prevalent giving up is, I would consider my stats only semi reliable. We're effectively only capable of discussing subjective trends felt from playing the game because of how unreliable kill rate is for measuring role strength, like @Rulebreaker mentions. Do you disagree with that, and consider kill rate indicative of role strength?
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Tell us you don't play killer without telling us you don't play killer
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It's not that SWF are too strong, it's that solo queue is just that bad.
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They can't, and they know they can't. They are going to simply continue to argue that killer is super easy not because they actually play killer themself, but because they watch some pro streamer who plays 18 hours a day.
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So glad my post did not specifically say "Personally I don't play killer"
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speed boosts and aura reading are a bit more important for killers to have in order to be able to down survivors on a short enough time frame to keep a game in control. I think it would be a bit ridiculous to try and argue it should be any other way(not that i think thats what your saying) SOME killers have machine learnin g which is not as readily available as SB or Lithe is for survivors to have and is also kind of situational, due to length of game and how it procs, your only looking at 1 or 2 times that it will likely apply.
Also, this is the DBD community, asking them to not exaggerate is like asking your mom to drink a barrel of cement. its not going to happen.
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The difference between them is like 2-5%…? (38% vs 40% or 38 vs 43% IIRC)
Solo queue can’t be ‘bad’ if the escape rates across all MMR ranks and even with a full SWF are so close. There’s something else at play that while yes may be more apparent in solo queue also affects SWF escape rates. And it isn’t survivor skill expression.
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Thank you for sharing the stats. Can you see how saying your matches are getting harder might be difficult to believe when you show stats like that? Considering my solo queue escape rate probably sits around 35% on a good day, how should I look at stats like yours and conclude the game is fair? Perhaps the question to ask might be something like, why do killer players that are winning or drawing the vast majority of matches feel like they're not? Are there things on the killer side that make actually balanced matches feel unbalanced or too stressful?
I don't necessarily think kill rate is gospel and perfectly reliable, but I do think the change in kill rates is significant and clearly tracks with years of decisions intended to have that effect. And I firmly believe increases in giving up are a consequence of those decisions. To suggest otherwise would imply a major shift in the playerbase brought about by….what exactly? What else changed over that timeframe that had a more significant impact on player behavior?
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So you are basically admitting you play low mmr then right? as every killer have unique mmr (to a certain degree) and this also means you have played less than 200 killer games in total,
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