Is it true Slugging is Meta?
Seeing some of you saying Slugging is the new meta. Why is that?
Comments
-
Cause Bad killers cant 4k on hooks and cry about SWFs.
22 -
according to the devs bleedouts happen in less than 1% of matches and partial bleedouts in around 10%. You tell me if its meta or not
6 -
They are slowly realizing that the current regression perks are garbage. Gen blocking has been more practical for a while now and slugging can turn any game if the survivor team ignores the situation for too long.
7 -
due to the way balance goes for the past year or so (+10s hook timers, sabo strategy getting a collective buff, perks with on/off hook conditions like Deli, DS, OTR, Reassurance etc.), hooking mechanic for killer was constantly being shadow nerfed until it reached the point where it's just simply...less effective for killer than slugging and more effective for survivors. The only effective way of hooking is hard tunneling someone instantly at the start of the match, which usually works only against bad players.
With these problems, game is striving into a more unhealthy position, with spreading hooks being the first thing that was discouraged and thus pushing the hard tunneling as a meta strategy, together with collective lack of skill on survivor side. Now we have slugging that is meta on all skill levels exactly because there are less benefits from hooking.
10 -
There's definitely been an uptick recently, but I wouldn't say it's meta by any stretch.
And it shouldn't be, for two reasons:
- It's a dick move.
- It's simply not that effective, especially if it were to become widespread and the surv meta shifts to UB/Soul Guard/Boon: Exponential. I've been running soul guard more recently as it seems Hexes are all the rage atm.
4 -
People will claim this is due to "regression nerfs" or survivor buffs, but I'm reality it's a subgroup of killer players having a tantrum.
The last regression changes were 6 months ago. That's just an excuse and anyone using that to excessively slug survivors in matches is being disingenuous.
No, the only change that's happened to start this "trend" was the extra 10 seconds of hook timer they added in the recent patch. There were several posts of people melting down over this change, and some of them are slugging every game in protest.
Apparently 60-70% kill rates aren't enough for some people, and the "buff me, nerf them" subgroup can't seem to understand why "balance" in a PVP game doesn't just mean constant killer buffs and permanent survivor nerfs every single patch. Given that people review bombed the game, flamed on social media, and have been taking about slugging being the new "only way to play" I'm not exaggerating. Since people are just that petty and entitled apparently.
18 -
balance was literally never about one side getting constant buffs, while one is getting constant nerfs. +10s to hook timers was extremely unnecessary and unhealthy change.
Post edited by EQWashu on7 -
There's been some talk among dbd content creators that slugging is stronger than hooking, due to the number of anti-tunnel perks which can be used aggressively against killers who weren't really going for a tunnel. And of course, if you did intend to tunnel, then the perks do their job and make it harder.
The thought process is that slugging has fewer counters and most survivors don't run them, which leads to easier, less stressful and more consistent results for killer.
There was a big experiment over it which got a specialist killer main for every killer in the game involved, and the results were released today.
The video claims to be unbiased and just presenting numbers, but they put their thumb on the scales in one important regard: they're only counting 4ks. A lot of people believe the killer wins the match at 3 kills, due to hatch being RNG.
Basically the overall results across all killers was that like 85% of matches resulted in a 4k if the killer never hooked anyone, while going for hooks was "only" 75%.
But from the same data, in the hook games, around 15% of the matches were a 3k, meaning the 4th got hatch or snuck open the gate, which means that the hooking games had a roughly 90% winrate, compared to the 3% of slugging matches which were a 3k. It also doesn't really account for survivors not expecting this playstyle and thus anti-slugging perks being rare.
And the laughable thing was the intro talking about how rough killers have had it with so many anti-tunnel measures now in the game, immediately followed by talking about a 75% 4k rate in a normal match with hooks.
8 -
The 10 seconds does nothing unless the killer is tunneling and camping. Some players cannot fathom how "map pressure" works, and can only think in terms of those two strategies.
People can play how they want. If people really want to slug l excessively slug in large numbers then so be it. The devs will be forced to deal with that too once kill rates get out of control.
Calling me "average" and obliquely calling me stupid doesn't help your argument, not sure if dispute that what I said is absolutely true of a subgroup of killers.
10 -
these 10 seconds are actually 30/20% towards repairing the generator (provided there is a chase or not)
5 -
I don't believe that slugging is the new meta. It always had conditions for the killer side like either slugging because of DS, to apply pressure either on a generator or because a survivor is near. Nonetheless survivors have a huge amount of tools to go against slugging. Either with Plot Twist, Unbreakable, Boon: Exponential and Tenacity - other Healing or Endurance perks can help too! f.e. We are gonna live forever, Boon: Circle of Healing, Botany Knowledge, Buckle Up, For the People.
So even if it would be meta, it would never be a strong meta honestly.
4 -
Either you are not very experienced as survivor or you are purposely omitting information. Even without a killer camping/tunneling, the extra time on hook is massive for survivors, why? Becase on that time you can do gens and that survivor on hook is safe while they are on hook. So you as a team have 30 seconds total of extra gen time/healing/destorying the killers set up while one teamate is safe.
Like I swear to god it actually baffles me how so many players do not understand that using the hook timer as a pressure reliever on the survivor team can just screw the killer so much.
Like in my soloQ matches people that do not get rescued isntantly just give up, people are so bad at the game they ignore that leaving someone on hook is incredibly effective, specially with the added time.
5 -
They can sit on their gen and finish it and still go for the safe, its like having your cake and eating it. How often have you left a 90% gen to go for an unhook, only to return to it and see it being hit by a pop at the killer loitering around and prohibiting you from finishing it? And it doesn`t always need to be this full 10s, its reassuring enough that you know you have so much time on your hand and that you don't need to panic, that puts so much more pressure on the killer.
EDIT: all this beautiful explainations and charts like "one survivor on hook, one in chase, on going for the unhook, leaving only one doing gens" gets shifted to "two survivors doing gens and finishing them with ample time to go for an unhook". It totally messes with the status que that was established, and just like (old) Zenshin Tactics was not like Windows of Opportunity in viability, even though both had the exact same effect, +10s on the hook timer is much more impactful then +10s increased gen time - they might look the same, but they are worlds appart.
7 -
Slugging only actually works if you're playing with a very strong killer and/or using Knock Out. In my experience killers are better off using hooks most of the time. Unless they're doing something like slugging someone else on the ground as someone is hooked.
2 -
Say the Killer has Hex: Ruin:
If I get off this Generator and go rescue a Hooked Survivor, I now have to repair any lost progress once I get back. But if the Survivor has enough time left on Hook where I can complete the generator, and then go unhook them, I now no longer have to deal with that additional time caused by the regression from Ruin, as once a Generator has been completed, it can no longer regress.
The additional time a survivor can spend hooked allows me to be more discerning with how time-efficient I can be.
2 -
This content has been removed.
-
I don't know man, Pain Resonance + Pop goes a long way in terms of applying a lot of gen regression. You can even toss Surge on and it's a pretty easy game for the most part (depending on the killer you use).
People slug for the 4k because of the introduction of the finishing mori. However, the mechanic definitely has pushed killers to slug especially if a survivor is injured. The other day I had a Huntress toss hatchets at my body and would not leave my body simply because she wanted to mori me when my random died.
0 -
Yes, or they get mad when you're trying to pop a gen that's right next to them that's about to finish.
People who go on the hook who expect to be unhooked when they have 80 seconds is such a wild thing. Don't even get me started on people who go on their first hook and try to kill themselves either due to map, killer, survivors not on gens, going down first/second — solo-queue gets horrible when these people play and they expect you to just drop what you're doing to go and get them off the hook instead of alleviating pressure by completing gens.
10 seconds added to the hook timer was introduced due to gens taking longer to complete (80 seconds in the past) compared to the 90 seconds now.
3 -
You do realise that this dramatically narrows the window, right? This only comes into play if your gen is around 90% done, otherwise there's no benefit and you're better off getting the other survivor off the hook so they can get back into action too.
Same goes here. It's only relevant if those extra ten seconds are exactly what you need to finish the gen. Which, to Akumakaji's second point, also means that these ten seconds are a pretty exact counterweight to the ten extra seconds on the gen.
But, another quite important question in the overall discussion: If these extra ten seconds are such a big deal, why would killers then opt to slug instead, considering slugging takes 2 full minutes longer, rather than 20 seconds?
3 -
If it is only bad killers doing it, then surely you should be able to win against them since they are bad.
10 -
You should know by now, all Killers who use tactics not approved by Survivors and do anything less than going for 12 hooks before the gens are powered, are bad. Don’t forget, Killers are only allowed to 1 hook everyone before they’re allowed to hook someone previously hooked.
7 -
I wish I had killers, who slug, so my we’re gonna live forever would finally do something instead of being a wasted perk slot.
The only time I experience slugging is for the 4k, which I dislike.
2 -
It looks more like killers can't get 4k and get 12 hooks so they adapt and find a work around. This results in bad survivors being the ones crying about being slugged. I see very little tears from killers, why cry when they can slug?
2 -
Bleedouts aren't "slugging". When a "normal" killer slugs he follows-up by hooking everyone.
It's not exactly the META. It's not easy to pull-off. You need survivors way less experienced than the killer, or a "bully" squad to do it.
Four slugs happen maybe 1/20 to 1/10 of my matches. They always happen because the survivors let me do it (they royally f-up)
That's with my main. I can hardly pull it off with killers I'm less proficient with. (Although I did it yesterday, but it was a "bully" squad.)
Slugging helps slowing down survivors more than hooking them (thanks for making hook stages longer, survivors can ignore them way more)
If regression sucks and hooking doesn't help that much, there is only one remaining option to pace the game down and it's slugging.
So I'll often keep a slug, sometimes two, depending on the situation. If survivors ignore a slug for too long, the slug dies. Or worse: I find them and I get them down before they raise their teammate back up.
TL/RD: it's the one remaining tool to slow down survivors and apply pressure but its not "META". Not until someone finds the perfect combo.
3 -
Funny. In my experience it's the survivors who stay on gens for too long to make it pop who cry their salty tears in the end game chat.
Me? I laugh. Maybe someday they'll learn that making themselves vulnerable may not be the best choice given the killer may decide to take full advantage of the situation.
0 -
Yes. It's already here, and it will only rise in popularity over time. It's the only way to win as Singularity vs good survivors, because hooking only results in a free un-infection.
People started slugging because they realized that hooks really aren't worth it. I was ahead of the curve, and realized this 1-2 years ago. Hooks aren't worth it, because until a survivor is physically dead, you're still in a 4v1 with 4 survivors capable of rushing gens.
Stuff like Pop, Pain Res, and Dying Light are cute, but they don't really make up for the fact that you're going for hooks instead of killing ASAP. When people view these perks, they view them as "Wow, so the killer gets to regress the gens by this much all these times," not realizing that survivors all being alive still means that all gens should be done by the time you get 5 hooks. "You can combo gen defence with tunneling." Yes, but survivors will just do gens fast anyway, and with Pain Res being only 1 use per person, and OTR and DS being very strong counters, they're just all gonna get done. If they don't, the survivors are bad or unlucky. And we shouldn't be balancing for those survivors to win, as the devs have tried and failed to do.
In order to stop slugging from being THE killer strategy, they need to reverse the 4 straight years of gen defence destruction, or give killers slowdown rewards for getting fresh hooks on multiple people. You can't just nerf killers to where their objective is getting further and further away from them, and not expect them to improvise.
6 -
since you deleted original comment, time for explanation on why in many cases greeding survivor on hook is way better than going for a hook asap:
when killer hooks a survivor and someone is quick to come for a save, killer is well aware that at least 2 survivors are away from their objectives from the very moment unhook notification pops. This makes killer able to either:
- try to push at least one of other two survivors remaining on gens while having established pressure on unhooked and unhooker if they reliably know where at least one of those two is;
- get back to hook and force unhooked or unhooker (or both) to stay away from objectives and achieve another hook (or hard tunnel unhooked if they have been hooked first really early and unhooked very early too)
What greeding survivor on hook achieves:
- killer is expecting someone to come for an unhook and thus they think there are two survivors remaining on gens (after what killer makes decision whether to force remaining two survivors off gens, come back to the hook or proxy camp if more than one go for the save), while in reality it's three of them almost nullifying killer's hook pressure + one can come for a moment, use Reassurance and provide more safety;
- it makes hard tunneling much less profitable since it will be already ~50+ seconds of hooked survivor being on hook, which is kinda wasted time.
You do realise that this dramatically narrows the window, right? This only comes into play if your gen is around 90% done, otherwise there's no benefit and you're better off getting the other survivor off the hook so they can get back into action too.
my explanation above is "short" version of why this statement is wrong.
But, another quite important question in the overall discussion: If these extra ten seconds are such a big deal, why would killers then opt to slug instead, considering slugging takes 2 full minutes longer, rather than 20 seconds?
as soon as killer picks up survivor, other survivors know killer is taking that one survivor to hook, which gives them a time window to either:
- rotate on objectives based on where survivor has been picked up by the killer;
- stay on gens and prepare themselves for the eventual arrival of killer to the tile they are working gen on, after which one takes chase and, if they can reliably hold a chase and notice killer is about to overextend, 3rd survivor can come to unhook and leave zone around the hook asap, leaving one survivor on gen.
If killer decides to slug, the gap where other survivors can make decisions is gone and also, killer circumvents various on/off hook related survivor perks, +10s hook stage and any kind of planned save.
On the other hand, against decent survs, killer will manage to get a 2-slug and very rarely a 3-slug, but never a 4-slug.
4 -
Because there's no incentive to do that. Why would you get 3 hooks across 3 different survivors, instead of 3 on 1 and get 1 out of the game? Asking killers to do that is asking them to play in a "nice" way, a way that gives their opponents a handout in exchange for nothing. You used to get something from hooking, which encouraged killers to go for whoever (old Pop, old Pain Res, old Overcharged/CoB). But now all of that is gone, and it's an even greater time crunch than before.
With base anti-tunnel mechanics, and still no touching of the several-year "anti-tunnel" meta, slugging is the next best thing. Realistically, you don't get anything from hooking. So why not start putting progress on survivors' bleed-out meters, and not have to deal with flashlight/pallet saves, instead of their 70-second+ hook meters? You can't get Pop or Pain Res from that, but you can still get Surge and Eruption.
And SWF is going to be "cried about" until they get addressed, because in all the years it's been a feature, the role has never been touched. Solo gets to suffer from the worst matchmaking of any game I've seen (constant bad teammates vs good killers), and SWF doesn't get anything done to them. And yet solo players, I assume, will still defend SWF. "Don't punish them for playing with friends!" Why should people get to play with friends without a gen debuff, if it means all the SWFs who actually play to win just stomp killers no matter what? You think these SWFs are winning all the time because they're better than the killer players? Usually not the case. If anything, they're usually a lot worse, counting all the mistakes they make in the average match, but just win anyway because "me do gens fast" and orchestrated gameplay using the communication and pre-made builds they get for free. I know we usually don't debuff teams on other games, but this game is legit not balanced for them… like at all. It's balanced around 1-2 good survivors martyring for their terrible teammates' escape, whilst killers are sweating the whole time anyway.
5 -
yeah it's funny because if you check killers that are in the low end at 55% killrate they still win more than survivors by about 8% winrate it's funny to watch because there so bad at the game they want free wins 24/7 to the point it's almost getting to the reverse situation of bdb when the game was new and killer actually could not do anything where getting closer and closer to that state really quick and its running the game really fast
0 -
it cannot be in less than 1% of matches when in my last 13 games ive bleed out 4 times while the killer just walked around me
2 -
when i play killer time has almost never been a problem except when i first started out, i play huntress and ghostface and usualy get a 4k without sluggingwith huntress and with ghostface average of 3k, its just that before people slugged when players were close, now they slugg the entire map which is in my opinion a very boring way to play the game cause you dont get to have any good chases except for a few times.
0 -
i also agree that more and more swf focuse on rushing gens than just playing the game which is a problem in some cases cause of all the info they have, less and less have i seen people who play the game for fun.
1 -
since you deleted original comment
Okay, before anything else: The forums are definitely broken, because I did not delete that, and I doubt a mod did, either, since it didn't get scrubbed from quotes and I received no notification or warning or anything of the sort. Same thing happened with the thread about 'does anyone ever recommend this game?' where I made a joke about it being against the Geneva Convention, and that comment got wiped too.
when killer hooks a survivor and someone is quick to come for a save, killer is well aware that at least 2 survivors are away from their objectives from the very moment unhook notification pops. This makes killer able to either:
try to push at least one of other two survivors remaining on gens while having established pressure on unhooked and unhooker if they reliably know where at least one of those two is;
get back to hook and force unhooked or unhooker (or both) to stay away from objectives and achieve another hook (or hard tunnel unhooked if they have been hooked first really early and unhooked very early too)
What greeding survivor on hook achieves:
killer is expecting someone to come for an unhook and thus they think there are two survivors remaining on gens (after what killer makes decision whether to force remaining two survivors off gens, come back to the hook or proxy camp if more than one go for the save), while in reality it's three of them almost nullifying killer's hook pressure + one can come for a moment, use Reassurance and provide more safety;
it makes hard tunneling much less profitable since it will be already ~50+ seconds of hooked survivor being on hook, which is kinda wasted time.
The only thing you're saying here is that this hinders the killer when they want to camp or tunnel, which is exactly the point of those +10 seconds. This is a reversal of an unintended collateral buff to these two tactics in the form of the +10 seconds on gens, basically reverting that dynamic to pre-6.1.
If killer decides to slug, the gap where other survivors can make decisions is gone and also, killer circumvents various on/off hook related survivor perks, +10s hook stage and any kind of planned save.
But the planned save is in the killer's benefit, and pretty much the only hook-based survivor perk that can legitimately hinder the killer is Deliverance, and that is only going to work in coordinated SWF.
Also, again: You're dodging the +10s hook stage by trading it for +120s. How is that a good deal? The very issues you have with the +10s are exacerbated literally twelve-fold by slugging.
3 -
What do you mean by staying on gens for too long? Like, trying to pop it in your face or what do you mean?
If you're saying that then yes, I will definitely pop it in the killer's face especially if gens need to be done.
I don't play on PC, so I don't really share the sentiment of that or message people unless I'm directly messaged first. It's best not to generalize people as I don't generalize killer players either. 😊
1 -
exactly that
and the devs listen to those killers complaining about losing 1 game out of 101 -
I'm not generalizing. I specified "from my experience".
Very few survivors are crazy enough to trade a gen for their life. Among the ones who do, the ones who express their feeling in the chat are systematically salty about the consequences. (Implicitly, there are also some who don't communicate at all.)
Survivors who leave early stand a much better chance. The killer wastes much more time to get to them. During that time another survivor can finish the gen freely.
War of attrition 101.
3 -
I see, I only do it because of how common Pain Resonance, Surge, and Pop are in my games.
If I can get off the generator, take a hit, and pop the gen I will do that. I don't get mad about it because it is a game at the end of the day and I just don't spread toxicity to other people over something as silly as that.
The longer that survivors are in a game, the more stronger killer gets as the game progresses. That's why I actively choose to pop a gen in the way that I do to alleviate pressure in the game, especially if it's a three gen that needs to be done.
I suppose you can say you're not generalizing, but when you say survivors are crying in end game chat because of their misplays... Not all survivors react that way. Even when I do a misplay, I acknowledge it, laugh, and move on — like I said it's a video game, not like we're playing Dead by Daylight competitively for money.
1 -
Its gaslighting by a tiny minority of whiny survivors who are mad they couldn't use their sabotage builds, flashlights, weaponized anti tunnel mechanics, etc
3 -
So finding the weakness in the current meta is considered a player being bad? News to me. Anyone can look at the survivor meta pre 8.3.0 and see that is has less anti-slug perks than second chance perks. So making it so people can't actively use their 2nd chance would be a smart move. Not to mention hooks just keep getting weaker and weaker.
5 -
I've yet to see a survivor laughing it off. That'd be nice. I'm not entirely sure you understand what "the killer taking full advantage of the situation" entails though. If you do, and take that treatment in a lighthearted way, good for you.
It is true killers are getting stronger over time, but only if survivors spend resources while being chased. If instead they go down without a chase worth mentioning, resources are kept but it's not much of an advantage IMHO.
The 3-gen could be a reasonable exception if one is in a hurry. But the anti-3gen mechanic is making sure patient survivors can focus the gens hyenas-style and the killer will hardly be able to do anything. At the very least it could guarantee an escape for the other survivors.
0 -
This explains the whole situation and problem perfectly and goes quite in-depth. And yeah, the game is balanced somewhat around the power of SWF, thus making everyone else, including the most numerous and vulnerable group in the game (soloQ survivors) surrfer as a consequence. I proposed a change that would defang SWFs neatly without "punishing players for playing with their friends. OMG!", while not affecting soloQ in any way, but it usually gets shot down.
Just let everyone see the others loadouts and prohibit multipicks of the same perks in any pre-made group. Simple as that. No more "4 DH/Unbreakbables" to work through and everyone has to find their little niche, but its not THAT punishing. In my regular duo and tripple SWFs we have very little overlap in perks, because we all got different playstyles and try to achieve different things, and the couple of overlap perks could easily be sorted out.
But any soloQ players getting rolled into that match wouldn't have their perk choices affected at all. A lot of nerfs in the past could have been averted by this system, too: going against 4 DH or MFT was pure torture, but only having one survivor with it is manageable. I think this is such an obvious and elegant solution that I am wondering why it gets so much resistance?
@NarkoTri1er pretty well explained how slugging affects pressure and how not going for the unhooking for extended periods can rob the killer themselves of any pressure. Its not that hard to understand, but you seem to purposefully dodging this.
Regarding tunneling, this was brought up as the only way the killer could salvage such a position and apply some pressure themselves, but this isn't viable because of all the anti-tunnel - while tunneling is not fun for the tunneled player, I know this well from my own experiences, most survivors fail to understand how much they pressure the killer by just splitting up. To the survivors its so often "hur dur he tunneled at 4 gens … what a looser!", while the killer saw during their chase two other gens that were 75+% and one other already on a good way to 50%. This already backs the killer heavily against the wall and depending on where the survivors spawned it makes defending 4 gens with just 1 hook to their name impossible.
And like I explained already, the +10s hook timer is NOT equal to the +10s gen time, or as you put it " these ten seconds are a pretty exact counterweight to the ten extra seconds on the gen."
The 10s hook time allow all other active survivors that much more idle time to do what they want, just like Windows of Opportunity was infinitely more useful to survivors (showing in its 30% pickrate) then old, pre-buff Zanshin Tactics (with a measly 0,6% pickrate), even though both perks had practically the exact same effect.
2 -
0
-
50 second of gen time is not /= 10 second of hook time. each 10 second is = 10 second of 3 gens worth of progression. if we say that half of the hook are looking for "altruistic" value. 10x6 = 60 seconds of gen time across 3 gens. that's almost 2 free gens.
increasing hook time was poor choice by BVHR in the end because it reduced urgency for survivors to unhook players. the killer requires the survivor to perform altruistic actions to gain value out of refresh hooks. with 70 second hook-states, survivor are less incline to take altruistic actions and rush gens meaning that killer is punished for hooking survivors because hooking is a large time sink in itself. the way they get back time-sink from hooking survivor is by survivors injuring themselves. hook is strategy to group survivors up but when timer is so long, the odds of survivor grouping up is lower.
i don't think slugging is stronger than hooking but skill-floor has risen for hooking compare to before. you get punished hard for not soft tunneling efficiently to get value out of hooks.
1 -
Say I’m the Killer.
I just got a down.
I could pick up the Survivor, spend about 10 seconds taking them to the hook and hooking them (or more time if there are nearby survivors), and then retrace my steps and go looking for others. Let’s say that was 15s overall.
Survivors had a cumulative 45s of time they could have been spending on gens in that time.
By slugging I skip that time, allowing me to potentially intercept a generator completion that I would have otherwise let slip through had I spent the time hooking the survivor.
But you’re not trying to bleed that one survivor out.
It’s a race to get them to a point where they’re all slugged, and unable to pick themselves up, as at that point you effectively win.
The bleedout is just the arbitrary endpoint.
6 -
Wouldnt that mean slugging is more effective?
4 -
It's as whole entire player base. Not justifying slugging because I get slugged a lot. I have even made it to the hatch a few times crawling around. The thing is a lot of these killers play on a VPN and they are out of their realm when matched with some squads. I mean seriously leave the Asian Gaming Gods alone. So they met with some sour matches and got beat so bad they go into every match the same way or retaliation. Peanits has even said a player shouldn't do that but a majority do. Some killers see content creators do it and think hey that's how I win. It's a vicious circle.
The only way to stop it is to put survivors in cages and make slugging punishable. There is no reason why a killer can't stomp on someone. Make flashlights a flashbangs stronger to counter the saves, so you can escape (maybe a stun like wiretap) and respawn pallets.
I have been told on other sites by multiple killers slugging is the new meta, so it's only going to get worse.
0 -
Slugging for the bleedout is like a sudden "Oh no!!!" moment. Everyone is sitting on their gens and letting them pop, besides that one survivor that desperately tries to pick up their mate. Eventually everyone notices that 1/2 of the bleedout timer are up and they come rushing and poking at you and you can take potshots at this or that one, sometimes they might pick the slug up, but without certain perks you send them down immediately and maybe get a second down. This is where things get extremely dangerous, because when you can get the third one, the game is effectively over, so you can now more deliverately hunt down the others.
By this time the first slug is probably dying, reliving the killer of a big pressure and basically handing them the game. One of the two remaining survivors might even give up at this point, so that hunting down the last one becomes just a small task of whittling down ressources and maybe defending the general area with the slugs.
This is how a typical slug-for-bleedout match could play out, I experienced this a couple of times during my bleedout test and yeah, its pretty effective, because you only have to deal with UB once per survivor max. Its not fun, but its more effective then going for hooks and/or tunneling. And THATS the problem. Hooking shouldn't be this weak.
2 -
these “10 seconds” are actually 80 seconds (10 seconds in 2 hook stages, for 4 survivors) and it hurts the killers who play for the 12 hooks more than the camping and tunneling killers.. it’s 80 seconds of less pressure from the killer and free time for more gens
3 -
@NarkoTri1er pretty well explained how slugging affects pressure and how not going for the unhooking for extended periods can rob the killer themselves of any pressure. Its not that hard to understand, but you seem to purposefully dodging this.
No, Narko delivered a bunch of word-salad which never actually addressed any pressure, just his personal misperception of pressure. Like mentioning having pressure on the unhooked and unhooker because he knows where they are. That's not pressure, unless you actually are able to affect them at that point. Otherwise, they can heal under the hook or get on a gen right next to it anyway.
So no, that's not an explanation of 'pressure', it's just Narko talking about how tunnelling/camping is harder now, which is fair, considering it got buffed with the +10 seconds on gens. If you're not tunnelling/camping, these ten seconds make very little difference, and survivors that attempt to exploit those ten seconds may well cost their team the entire match.
And like I explained already, the +10s hook timer is NOT equal to the +10s gen time, or as you put it " these ten seconds are a pretty exact counterweight to the ten extra seconds on the gen."
You didn't explain it, you just stated it.
increasing hook time was poor choice by BVHR in the end because it reduced urgency for survivors to unhook players.
It doesn't, unless the killer is camping/tunnelling. Survivors still need to get people off the hook as quickly as possible, because if there's two survivors on the hook at the same time, it's very much possible for the killer to snowball out. Those 10 extra seconds aren't 10 extra seconds of gen progress on three gens. One gen should be interrupted by the killer anyway, but the extra time spent on the gen is weighed down by the survivor on hook staying there longer.
Consider it this way: 1 on hook, 1 in chase, 2 on gens, for 70 seconds. That's 140 charges.
Vs.
1 on hook, 1 in chase, 1 on rescue, 1 on gen for 30 seconds, then 3 on gen for 40 seconds: That's 150 charges.
The -only- difference it makes, is if a gen is within the exact right progress point where being able to go for the unhook 10 seconds later allows them to finish it. If they're not progressed far enough, they will have to go for the save anyway. If they have progressed further than that, then the 10 extra seconds don't come into play. The further progressed the gen is, the less of those 10 seconds are left to benefit from.
And the exact point where you need to lock in to finish the gen? That's different based on the distance between gen and survivor. And that's so hard to calculate that you're not going to realistically be able to make use of it.
So what changed, from the survivors' perspective?
Nothing.
Except for the fact that you now have 20 extra seconds to 'just do gens, 4head' when the killer camps or tunnels.
Pick-up-to-hook-time did not get changed at all.
6 -
i think you misunderstood my comment. killers spend time to hook survivors. in order for hooking to be beneficial from time investment stand-point, they need to either get regressed hook or altruistic hits which either lead to downs(reducing survivor up-time on gens) or force survivors to heal. if they don't get either of these rewards, hooking is negative time investment unless the hook is a kill.
leaving the hook → free unhook. that is why those 10 seconds is somewhat big deal because it puts urgency on killer to move away from hooks over urgency for survivor to get to the hook. It is like you get your cake and get to eat it as well. the killer spends time to hook survivors+they don't get that time back in any shape or form because killer isn't getting any injure pressure or hook regression pressure from said hook and this is on top of the 10 extra seconds of gen time per hook. it results in killer being punished for hooking which is where this slugging gameplay is starting to occur. they're getting negative pressure for hooking.
3