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Why do you people want WoO to get nerfed so badly??

I am not understanding that at all. I don’t think the perk is broken nor it is a problem at all. All it does is reveal locations of pallets and windows that’s it I’m not understanding the issue of why people hate the perk so bad. Plus in my personal opinion I don’t think it needs a nerf because every chapter update there’s a guarantee a new map so i don’t think it should be nerfed. Plus new players who need to learn the map and game should use WoO often. I am a killer main myself I main onryo and I don’t have a single issue with survivors running WoO. If your a killer main and if you have an issue then your just complaining for no reason. Plus killers have literally the same perk called zanshin tactics it literally does the same thing

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Answers

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,840

    The only thing I kinda agree with is it takes away some form of luck from chaining loops.

    That said, I don't agree it's OP either. Just overused at a higher level, and the argument that newer players need it is kinda disingenuous because I'm sure not everyone will have Kate unlocked to get it when they start anyway. I know I didn't. Sure it's useful to learn pallet spawn logic, but it's more often than not used that way.

  • CountOfTheFog
    CountOfTheFog Member Posts: 2,335

    I just started using it today on all my Survivors. It has taken the place of Distortion for me.

  • PetTheDoggo
    PetTheDoggo Member Posts: 147

    I would just want good blidness perk (RIP UW) to counter it. It's funny how many survivors are just lost without it.

    I have personally stopped using WoO when playing survivors and I enjoy my games so much more, when I can't just play on autopilot.

  • Emeal
    Emeal Member Posts: 5,151

    I dont want WoO nerfed, but it CAN become a crutch perk for you. But whether this matters at all is something they need to debate.

    I have always seen WoO as a great equalizer between newbies and veterans or casuals and elites, I would make the argument that WoO is a glue that holds the game together, because the preferred playstyle of Survivor is to not run with an escape plan from every generator. Scouting is a somewhat dead in dbd strategy in dead by daylight and until that changes I see not need to even touch it.

  • coldflame
    coldflame Member Posts: 39
    edited October 22

    WOO centralises the meta and removes strategy from survivor, theres no reason to save resources with it

    rn the game is just loop simulator, theres no point creating deadzones as killer or trying to not create them as surv

    Post edited by coldflame on
  • I_CAME
    I_CAME Member Posts: 1,294

    There are too many maps for the average player to keep up with. On top of this you have countless variants and countless RNG pallets. It gets worse every time they release a new map and it will only continue to get worse every year the game is in active development. Windows is highly used because it's basically required for a lot of people who can't dedicate thousands of hours to memorize every possible map layout that may or may not be in your next match.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,817
    edited October 22

    WoO is OP because it provides too much value for a single perk slot, especially when compared to its cousin aura perks. Overtuned would probably be more accurate than OP, but it is certainly too strong for its metadata and lack of downside. Personally I'd just like to see it more in line with the other survivor aura perks instead of being such a clear and obvious choice.

  • ratcoffee
    ratcoffee Member Posts: 1,467

    I personally don't want it nerfed, but I've found when a weaker player is using it, the game gets a whole lot more boring without getting any harder because they follow a much more linear play style - linear as in making fewer decisions.

    Even though I don't think it should be nerfed, I understand why someone might want to face fewer people playing the "I have windows" chase style

  • smurf
    smurf Member Posts: 276

    When I started playing, I read lists of best perks and got Kate prestiged as soon as I learned what prestige meant.

    Then later, I played a random perk challenge and found WoO was seriously hindering my looping abilities. In my first game without WoO, I looped better than I ever could with it. With WoO, I'd see a bright yellow pallet or window and think "that's my target, gotta get there." And that would pretty often send me holding W to a target I couldn't reach before I got hit.

    Having said that, I think WoO is great for beginners to learn where pallets and windows are likely to be. On experienced players, WoO tells where your nearest resources are. You still have to be good at looping, and WoO gives you the ability to not run to a dead zone, or even to strategically pick good loops.

    I'm definitely not at high MMR as survivor, but as killer I face survivors who are way better than I am as survivor. On those players, I really don't mind when they have windows :D

  • jmwjmw27
    jmwjmw27 Member Posts: 413

    Because people don't like the information it gives.

    I think asking for a WOO nerf is silly and naive, and doesn't resolve any issues these people have. But to play devil's advocate, it is the most popular survivor perk at this moment and it gives the map knowledge of a studious veteran on comms to anyone who runs it, so they don't path to deadzones.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,817

    Bond, Empathy, and Kindred are all in line just under WoO. They can all glean similar metadata, but their core functions are not as strong, while they have drawbacks (requiring a shorter radius, requiring the teammate to be injured, and requiring a teammate (or self) to be on hook.)

    Bond is already fine due to its short radius, so it wouldn't need any nerfs. Again, its just that WoO stands too far above its competition both in value and constant/average functionality.

  • Caiman
    Caiman Member Posts: 2,872

    Going against a survivor who is obviously running it and just mindlessly running from pallet to vault to pallet to vault is simply boring to play against. Killers can play boring and survivors can too.

  • theonryo123
    theonryo123 Member Posts: 92

    it’s not OP at all there’s certain maps that people forget what’s there

  • Eleghost
    Eleghost Member Posts: 1,190

    Value wise you get a lot of information on where to go and what pallets are available still or even where the person being chased is from a pallet drop. It also has no deactivation built in like on vault or pallet drop so you just get a lot of free valuable information for 1 perk slot.

  • TheSingularity
    TheSingularity Member Posts: 96

    I know it used to have a cooldown of 20 seconds back in the day. I'm fine with the perk as is, though I wouldn't mind a shorter cooldown after a vault. Maybe 10 seconds?

  • jmwjmw27
    jmwjmw27 Member Posts: 413

    I agree with you that playing against shift W predrop can be boring on certain maps as lower tier killers.

    A question for you then: Why is this Windows of Opportunity's fault?

    If you nerf WoO, let's say even remove it from the game, the playstyle remains. Balance wise, nothing changes, only the playstyle becomes a bit harder to use (but not by much). Anyone with a decent amount of hours or good map knowledge can still do it. It's still just as strong.

    A much better solution is more balanced maps (so not Gideon Meat Plant) and buffs for lower tiers. A windows nerf only helps if all of your opponents are so new that they don't know the map.

  • SoGo
    SoGo Member Posts: 1,261

    The only bad thing about WOO, is the fact it creates auto-pilot survivors.

  • NarkoTri1er
    NarkoTri1er Member Posts: 541

    people don't really want a nerf in literal meaning. People want this perk still to be very friendly for people learning tiles, but there are way too many people that actually play survivor a lot and still completely depend on this perk (even when they are in SWF)

  • Caiman
    Caiman Member Posts: 2,872

    At least then they'd have to learn the maps instead of letting the yellow glow autopilot them from tile to tile.

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 3,306
    edited October 23

    I want to be able to recommend it to my newbie friends without the knowledge that it'll forever hinder them from actually growing and getting better at the game, preventing them ever getting to the point they don't need it. I also would like to use it for myself in a few specific builds without actively hindering my own ability to learn the game as well.

    That's the reason I want it nerfed, WoO has a paradox in it's design currently. If its primary purpose is to help new players get better at the game, it doesn't succeed in doing that, it makes them lazier and more reliant on WoO just to function. You can't learn to ride a bike if you never take the training wheels off. It's value for more experienced players is limited more towards scouting the layout of tiles early, and having an early warning for what tiles have already been used when their chase starts.

    A cooldown after a fast vault doesn't impede the experienced players usage of the perk, and retains it's niche. A cooldown also DOES actually help new players learn the game, because they actually have to remember the location of vaults they saw, and they naturally mentally map out tiles and structures as they play through necessity. They still get the benefit of the perk ensuring they are able to put up a fight to a degree, but are also actually learning tiles and building a fundamental skillset that then enhances their ability to play DBD without WoO rather than hindered from doing so.

  • NarkoTri1er
    NarkoTri1er Member Posts: 541

    except for the fact that majority of people don't care about it's high usage rate.

    I can't even explain how many times i had a teammate run into me repairing a gen while killer was chasing them simply because...they saw yellow aura of a pallet on this tile, both soloQ and SWF. This people turns your game sense off completely if you don't use it to learn tile placement, but instead as a crutch even after thousands of hours i the game. You won't care about where your teammates are, you will just run to the random nearest tile with yellow auras during chase.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,824

    Overuse is a reason for a nerf. No perk should stay in the meta forever. WoO has been in there for long enough.

    It's fine that it helps beginners but no perk should automate gameplay. If the cooldown came back, it would still do all the good things but you would actually need to pay some attention.

  • NarkoTri1er
    NarkoTri1er Member Posts: 541

    don't you see anything strange with a perk that is supposed to be a training wheel actually being #1 perk by pickrate amongst survivors?

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  • theonryo123
    theonryo123 Member Posts: 92

    Agreed because there should be no reason for them to complain and plus they are complaining because they are losing the game and they blame windows for their loss

  • theonryo123
    theonryo123 Member Posts: 92

    Your

    Just because it is overuse does not mean it should get nerfed. I think your one of those people who get mad that you lost the game and blame a perk for your losses and wants it to get nerfed. That is like saying pain res should get nerfed because it is specific type of meta like no.

  • theonryo123
    theonryo123 Member Posts: 92

    I have to disagree. I been playing dead by daylight for 5 years now and I still do not remember certain parts of maps that well for example lery's. Windows do not need a nerf that is not the problem at all if you have a issue with windows it means you are complain about your losses when you play killer. Plus windows is a good information tool for everybody to use especially if a survivor is getting chased and if they use a certain pallet that has been broken by the killer other survivors need to know which pallets are available in their area while in chase. I think you of all people need to stop complaining and just play the game. Distortion was already nerfed in a way and now windows??

  • theonryo123
    theonryo123 Member Posts: 92

    Is that a problem tho?? Ever heard of Zanshin Tactics?? killers literally have the same perk. I think your one of those who play killer and complain that you lose matches because of a perk and you want it to get nerfed. Just say your trash at chasing survivors theres no reason for it to get nerfed. That is like saying pain res should get nerfed because it is a meta?? Like so what who cares

  • theonryo123
    theonryo123 Member Posts: 92

    Doesn't mean it should get nerfed

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 3,306
    edited October 23

    if you have a issue with windows it means you are complain about your losses when you play killer

    That is a very unfair assessment of both my argument and me. If you don't want to discuss/tackle the actual argument I made, that kinda suggests you don't actually have a counter point. It seems you have instead resorted to the tried and true social media strategy of discredit your opponent by any means necessary, and resorted to straw-manning me as an entitled killer main who wants free wins.

    My opinion of WoO from a killer's perspective is summaried quite succintly here:

    It may interest you to know I actually play about 60% Survivor now and 40% killer, my disdain for WoO comes from the fact the perk works like driving a car with a satnav. I can drive the same route for a year with a satnav and still not know how to get to my destination without it. I can do the same trip having to pre-plan the route with an actual map and try to follow said route, and learn it in 2 trips.

    For this same reason, I cannot use WoO, it actively inhibits my ability to learn and makes me bad at the game, and is why I won't recommend it to any other new players who start as well. You've been playing 5 years… great, a lot of veteran players will talk about WoO like it is great/necessary for new players to learn. Well I've been playing for 1 year and 8 months, I actually am someone who has gone through learning the ridiculous iceberg that is modern DBD as a newer player, and I am telling you, this perk hinders your ability to learn, it doesn't help it.

    If you have an actual point to discuss I will happily listen and debate it. However if you're jsut gonna try and claim I'm wrong by hurling unfounded accusations at me, I would ask you to please do better.

    Post edited by UndeddJester on
  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,824

    The problem is not losing but that I can close my eyes because I already how the next 40 seconds will play out. WoO is used to make chases as uninteractive as possible.

    If the cooldown came back, you would need to put some effort into it and maybe even play around a structure for once.

    Pain Res was nerfed already, so that's really not the best example you could have made. Not to mention you actually have to do something for Pain Res to activate.

  • OmegaXII
    OmegaXII Member Posts: 2,216

    Funny. If high usage doesn't mean it's good and provides great value, why do people even bring it?

    Fun fact: BHVR stated that the reason for nerfing all slowdown perks was because of high usage.

  • Caiman
    Caiman Member Posts: 2,872
    edited October 23

    Ever heard of Zanshin Tactics?? killers literally have the same perk

    And it was worthless on them because vaults and pallets mean more to survivors than they do to killers. No one cared about Zanshin Tactics until it got buffed.

    I think your one of those who play killer and complain that you lose matches because of a perk and you want it to get nerfed.

    Wrong.

    Just say your trash at chasing survivors theres no reason for it to get nerfed.

    Resorting to petty insults like a little kid.

    That is like saying pain res should get nerfed because it is a meta??

    Pain Res is also boring.

  • jmwjmw27
    jmwjmw27 Member Posts: 413

    And once they do learn the maps?

    Would you say to yourself after seeing survivors predrop pallets "oh well, at least they learned where the set pallet spawns are or can recognize a jungle gym, I no longer have any complaints"? Would you go against a full slowdown midwich nurse and say "well she's not using aura so this is completely fine"?

    Be real with yourself.

  • Caiman
    Caiman Member Posts: 2,872

    Survivors running tiles based on their knowledge and awareness is more fun to play against than pallet autopilots.

  • jmwjmw27
    jmwjmw27 Member Posts: 413

    The average survivor is bad at the game and this perk highlights the most important resources needed for the most skilled part of gameplay (the chase), not that weird to me.

  • jmwjmw27
    jmwjmw27 Member Posts: 413

    Survivors that run tiles aren't predropping or doing brainless hold W to yellow, which is the issue yes?
    I agree that actually playing tiles is more fun than running to the pallet and dropping it. My question is why you think this is something that would go away without Windows.

    The proper way to encourage survivors to play tiles isn't to try and prevent them from knowing what resources are nearby - that isn't viable with knowledgeable players anyway. It's proper map and killer balance.