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My problem with Off the Record, DStrike & Deliverance
1.) Why don't Off the Record and DStrike deactivate when the survivor who uses them gets fully healed? OTR and DStrike should prevent tunneling but even when you don't tunnel you could get punished because people use them for tanking hits.
Especially since perks like Resurgence (70 % healing progress after being unhooked or unhooking yourself) kinda got meta since the last patch and promote healing under the hook even more.
2.) Why doesn't Deliverance deactivate once the exit gates are powered just like OTR and DStrike do? It's like a free escape with the 10 seconds of BT and when the survivor gets hooked close to an open exit gate. And in the endgame you can't do much else than camping the hooked survivor.
Before someone complains and calls me a killer main: I play survivor / killer in a ratio of 75 / 25 % and have over 7k hours in DbD.
Comments
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- Because survivors can be fully healed against their will or without taking an action. If this happens and they become exposed, then they're losing potection, not remaining neutral.
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The hell are you talking about?
Survivors can be fully healed against their will? You know you can press Shift to prevent getting healed by a team mate?
When do you get exposed after being healed by someone? Only if the killer has perks like Devour, Haunted Grounds, Friends 'til the End etc. Then you're exposed, what means you're oneshot for a certain period of time, like everybody else who suffers from the exposed status effect.
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Getting healed is not considered a conspicuous action, which is why it doesn't deactivate OTR or DS. If they deactivated after healing, there wouldn't be much point to bringing them, as a tunneling killer does'nt stop tunneling just because you're still injured or healthy.
When it comes to Deliverance, it has such specific requirements and is very situational that if it disabled in endgame, I believe it would kill off the perk completely. You already run the risk of it being a dead perk if you get hooked first, or don't get an unhook before you are hooked, which keeps many people from using it. If they manage to survive till end game, have Deliverance activated which meant they managed not to get hooked at all but still got saves, I don't think it's unreasonable for them to deserve a chance to use the perk, especially because it can only be used once. You can think of it like NoEd, it's typically high risk and potentially high reward.
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Syringe and For The People are instant heals that you can't avoid.
If you have Renewal/Second Wind, that heals you automatically whether you want it or not.
If you have Endurance, you do not go down if you're Exposed. Lose that Endurance on being healed and you now have less protection than when you were injured.
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For a syringe and FtP to work on you, you have to start being healed by your teammate and then they would use one of these features, but any heal can be denied from even starting by holding down shift (like the person you're talking to mentioned).
So these aren't unavoidable heals. What may exist is a lack of information about the holding down shift feature, but that doesn't mean it's not there
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I think you misunderstand something: If you're able to get full life after an unhook, you're not getting tunneled - unless you have Second Wind and become full life in mid chase.
But I get your point with Deliverance, that sounds fine to me and I can live with it.
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So if theyre fully healed it isnt tunneling anymore? You cant be serious.
Also if you hook a survivor for the first time right next to a gate in endgame, its your fault. Not the fault of a perk that can only activate once.
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And it's normal practice to hold down shift constantly is it?
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Unless the killer had stepped away from the hook to go kick a gen and the rescuer had a medkit and/or healing build and quickly healed you under hook before the killer got back.
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Medikit or perks that amplified healing faster
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Huh? I didn't say that. You hold down shift specifically if you want to avoid a full heal or any heal at all.
If you wouldn't want a full heal either for Dead Hard or, in the scenario of the poster, to avoid losing anti tunnel perks, you'd be able to do it by holding shift near teammates.
That's the only point I'm making, since you were arguing these perks shouldn't be changed because you can't avoid a heal by other people, me and the other poster pointed out that you can, in this form.
It doesn't work if someone forces those on you unexpectedly and you wanted a 99% heal instead, but at that point you'll already have an extra health state being healthy, which was what Off the Record should give you as anti tunnel. The only downside is exposed based killers like Myers and Ghosty really.
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I am not misunderstanding, but where we may disagree may depend on what you personally define as tunneling. Tunneling, by the majority’s definition, is when a killer repeatedly targets and hooks one specific survivor, ignoring others, until that survivor is eliminated. Health states are not relevant to this definition. For example, if Nea is hooked twice, unhooked, and healed, but the killers focus remains on only Nea, injuring her, downing her and then hooking her again, that’s still tunneling. Regardless if she’s at full health, it is still tunneling because health states do not change hook count. (And thank goodness for that because the game would be miserable if all it took was a heal to take away a hook)
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Okay, I give you that point but if you're able to get full life after being unhooked you have another life you can tank a hit with. So why do you need a second extra life with DStrike or OTR?
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You can call that tunneling but if you're full life you have a life state to tank a hit with and not going down instantly unless the killer has a oneshot. So why do you need a second extra life with DStrike or OTR?
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a tunneling killer does'nt stop tunneling just because you're still injured or healthy.
Wait, you said healing doesn't change hook states. Neither do DS and OTR. A tunneling killer doesn't stop tunneling just because you DSed them or because you are quiet for 80s.
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I get your point.
Even though DS is meant to prevent tunneling, players use it strategically by delaying its activation, which allows them to use it later to buy extra time
Let me give you an example from my video: https://youtu.be/j6qWlF-iDjI?si=0e6xG05fUPujeAeA
After I hooked Yui, over a minute passed before I saw her again. Despite that, they timed her unhook (for the gen) so that her DS was still active when I found her and she was healed up. She had no fear because she knew DS was still up, so she baited me into a chase, thinking she was going for the save. For me, it had been a while since I last saw her, so DS wasn’t even on my mind.
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A killer determined to tunnel will do so whether a survivor is at full health or not. The purpose of perks like DS and OTR is to discourage tunneling by making it less efficient for the killer. These perks turn what would typically be a single hit into two, and if the survivor manages to get fully healed, it becomes three hits to secure a down. This inconvenience is intentional, because it encourages killers to target other survivors instead, as tunneling the one that takes 3 hits to down would take significantly more time and effort than going after someone else. And because these anti-tunnel perks have restrictions (disable end game, goes away the moment you progress the game with conspicuous actions), weakening them more would make them even less of a threat to tunneling killers, which is the opposite of the goal.
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Why does the killer need to tunnel?
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For winning maybe? Have you ever played mid or low tier killers on the highest MMR? You will always have matches where you are forced to kill one survivor fast because it's much easier to deal with only 3 survivors. Otherwise you have to sweat your ass off plus it depends on the map you get (DbD unfortunately have many unbalanced maps). People still complaining about tunneling in 2024 is crazy. It's part of the game - like camping, slugging, gen rushing, teabagging etc. Of course the tunneled survivor doesn't have much fun in that situation but do you think the killer has if gens are flying? That's why you have perks like DStrike, OTR or Blood Rush (combined with an exhaustion perk) which guarantee you one (!) protection against tunneling. But why should the game give you two protections (full life and DStrike or Endurance effect through OTR)? That's just OP. Especially when - like its_vk described it correctly - survivors abuse these effects to tank hits for others or later in the game when the killer just randomly find and chase them again (that's not tunneling) and still have to fight through a DStrike or an OTR although these people are full life and got unhooked like 55 - 75 seconds ago. Do you think that's fair?
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You still don't get my point.
Why should the game give you two protections (full life and DStrike or Endurance effect through OTR)? That's just OP. Especially when - like its_vk described it correctly - survivors abuse these effects to tank hits for others or later in the game when the killer just randomly finds and chases them again (that's not tunneling) and still has to fight through a DStrike or an OTR although these people are full life and got unhooked like 55 - 75 seconds (for example) ago. To say disactivating DStrike and OTR by becoming full life would make them less of a threat to tunneling killers is wrong, because it wouldn't change a thing for real tunnelers - they still have to go through a 60 seconds DStrike or an 80 seconds Endurance effect. Which is more of enough protection for a tunneled survivor. People would still bring these two perks. Nobody would say: I don't use DStrike and OTR anymore because I can't use them when I'm full life. And no killer fears a DStrike or an OTR of a full life survivor because nobody expects them effects to still be active. Only a focused tunneler, who goes in chase with a survivor who gots unhooked right before and ignores everything else, worries about getting dstriked or having to fight through an endurance protection. But if a survivor is unhooked, gets fully healed by another survivor and got found and downed 50 seconds later for example - although the killer chased and downed someone else in the meantime - in what world is it fair that this survivor still has a protection with DStrike or OTR? If they're half life and managed to not deactivate their protection by conspicious actions then it's okay. But getting full life again should be a conspicious action as well imo - regardless of whether you yourself or someone else healed you - because it's a way to progress the game as you would say.
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Here wo go again, the same old stories as always. If that is your mindset and knowledge, there is no point in discussing anything. Defending anything like this is embarassing escpecially in nigh 2025.
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Most of the time, these perks won’t affect you if you’re not tunneling. If a survivor uses them offensively, like for bodyblocking, they lose their protections as a consequence, making them just as vulnerable as before. Arguing that a perk shouldn’t exist just because it can be used offensively or in a way that isn’t intended is a slippery slope. For instance, Nurse can make almost any perk seem ‘OP’ due to her basic power that practically breaks every rule of the game other killers have to follow, but it wouldn’t be reasonable to eliminate perks based solely on her potential, as she doesn’t set the standard for all killers.
Disabling DS or OTR upon full healing undermines the core purpose of these perks, which is to deter tunneling—not just protect injured survivors. Their protections are designed to create a window where tunneling is inefficient, encouraging killers to focus on other survivors regardless if they are healed or not.
In order for these perks to work they have to basically be AFK. If they’re waiting around 60 seconds to tank a hit for someone else, that’s 60 seconds they were standing there unable to heal others, do gens, do totems, open chests, basically progressing the game in any way. If someone did choose to play that way, you are not only getting rid of that persons protection now that they used their OTR or DS to body block, but you also got 2 people off gens (the one you were chasing and the one who used OTR to block) and youre now in a chase with someone that already has a hook state. That’s good.
If people were still able to do gens, get saves, heal, etc. basically do anything to progress the game and still have protection, that would be a different story. But that’s not the way these perks currently work. Protection is immediately taken away once you make progress in the game. Someone standing with OTR injured or not, who wait for 80 seconds for the entire perk to time out is as useful to you ( as killer, not as a teammate ) as being slugged , so if survivors are playing that way it’s only making their game harder and yours a lot easier.
The perks already have strict requirements and restrictions. These anti-tunnel perks are not the cause they are the effect. They need to be strong, because tunneling is strong. You don’t even need a perk to tunnel but you do need one to counter it, so if you have to dedicate a perk slot to something the other “side” gets free, and those protection perks are also not free, and also have very strict restrictions and requirements to activate, you should get good value. Making it disable if another person chooses to heal you would severely lessen that value.
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