Knock Out needs to see changes.
This perk is just straight up unhealthy for the game. I think that it really needs to see some changes, because promotes extremely unhealthy playstyles.
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I'd say the issue is more with slugging in general right now. The fact the Twins exists and slugging is encouraged as them is gross
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Slugging is a valid playstyle, but i agree that Knockout is punishing SoloQ, while it have little to no effect on SWFs, and in that regard i think it needs a change
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Im surprised they never thought it would be used specificly for 4 man slugfest for 1 hook each. Im also confused why its taken so long for them to revert the changes or update them when they know full well what its being used for these days. They can nerf skull merchant into the ground sure but its nothing compared to a killer just bringing nothing but knockout running around slugging till noone is left standing and he just lets em bleed out while making a sandwich or something. If only there was a way to ask the devs if they are looking into updating it
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4 people on the ground means 4 survivors screwed up 12+ times in short time, if you didn't want to let go of the generator to help your comrade, don't complain that there's no one to heal you
16 meters "knockout" is more than enough to find a survivor, + if the survivor fell and you are in the killer's TR, then the survivor is within a 32-meter radius of youJust add 2+2 and go pick up your partner+ there is empathy so you always know where the wounded survivor was, and if you fall, you can use anti-slug perks or just crawl to the nearest generators/main
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Agree, slugging shouldn't be encouraged, especially when the Perk just punishes Solo-Q and doesn't really have that much of an effect against SWF.
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Yeah, its just that easy guys. What @sanees isn't correct about is "4 people on the ground means 4 survivors screwed up 12+ times in short time, if you didn't want to let go of the generator to help your comrade, don't complain that there's no one to heal you'
Assumption is the mother of all F ups. Its in this that '4 people on the ground means 4 survivors screwed up 12+ times.' is a terrible assumption.
Where in the realm did you get your numbers? 12+ times?
16 meters "knockout" is more than enough to find a survivor, + if the survivor fell and you are in the killer's TR, then the survivor is within a 32-meter radius of you. Just add 2+2 and go pick up your partner+ there is empathy so you always know where the wounded survivor was, and if you fall, you can use anti-slug perks or just crawl to the nearest generators/main
Man you DO have all the answers! Its just.. that.. easy everyone. Just equip Empathy and follow anyone getting chased so you can be in the TR and get your teammate up! Dont worry about gens.
Sheesh, survivors be wanting handouts and such these days like they were killers. How selfish.
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the killer can physically chase only 1 survivor, if the survivor is down and the killer is just standing over him, you have all the time in the world to fix the generators and escape, if the killer is going after another survivor, then the survivors who decided to just stay on the generators and ignore the downed person are making a mistake, just as often, a fallen survivor makes the mistake of simply lying still and not even trying to help in his search
thus the survivors must lose 8 times in loops and during all this time not a single survivor should decide to help his comrade so yes this is a minimum of 12 mistakes (meanwhile, 1anty slugs perk can eliminate all your mistakes.)it's like ignoring the Cenobite box and then complaining that he's OP, just don't ignore your comrades and killer tactics and then you won't have problems
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And anything can happen with allllllll this time. I've not really been cursed with a lot of survivors letting others just die on the ground, hook, or otherwise. Honestly… its usually survivors killing themselves on hook. Maybe the slug/knock out playstyle is meant to counter those types? I mean I couldn't complain really, those types ruin the game for both sides, right?
I just don't see this much at all. And I certainly don't see this happening as you've painted it, even in my head. Its more a fairytale's chance to happen even now and then.
About the Cenobite thing… but its so much more fun trying to run while chain hunt is active. My heart rate is usually 100+ when a good chase is going and then boom, chain hunt. Becomes more of 'how long can I last?' and is loads of fun imo lol.
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or it could just mean there's a 1.5 foot tall gremlin in play that moves at 200% speed and can't be dodged
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Its like the people defending knockout saying its not that bad havent been in a solo que round before lol. Person goes down, "oh they have knockout cant see where they are.. are they picking them up or? second person down oh its one of THOSE *rushes to go find someone thays down* third person down, killer backpedals to see you pickup the first one downs them again then mowed you down game over. End of round. Period. All your fault apparently cuz u didnt all have empathy. The amount of times solo que survives a 4 man slugfest with knockout is verrrrry low.
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Post 326 of saying the timed and permanent effects for Knockout should be switched round. Maybe buff the effect a tad to give it value, but have it a tool more not to lose a slug.
For 25s seconds: -
- The aura of the dying survivor is blocked for their teammates over 32/24/16m.
- Suffers from deafened and blindness condition.
- Reduced field of view.
While in the dying state: -
- Reduced crawling speed -50%.
- Reduced recovery speed -25%
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Slugging to an extent is fine. I get that. But STRICTLY slugging is the problem. Like no hooking. And Knock Out promotes that.
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"The amount of times solo queue survives a 4 man slugfest with knockout is verrrrry low."
Surprisingly, I won a solo queue match of Knock Out today. They DC'd before everyone was about to escape. But yes, it's extremely rare.
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In this game i see no other option for the killer, than slugging ect.
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Ofc I'm not talking about Boil Over games or heavy Flashbang games, but hard slugging in the average match is not healthy or good for the game in any way.
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This whole read lifted my spirits. -claps
You said it beautifully!
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While I dont personally understand why so many find slugging much more unbearable than being hooked, knock out as a perk exists solely to stomp soloQ players. It shouldnt hide the aura at all and recieve some compensation buffs that gear its power to snowballing rather than slugging every down.
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Yeah but twins slugging is preventable to begin with by typical twins counterplay; the twins player often finds that a down across the map is picked up long before they have a shot to hook.
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are you a killer main?
Tell me what’s fun about being on the ground, bleeding not being able to actually play the game? I personally don’t find it fun. I think many others will agree.
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I dont recall saying it was any fun? No need to be hostile. Being slugged really isnt much different from being hooked when knock out is out of the equation, and even when it is the pain is more soloQ teammate oriented than slug. And I play 50/50. In reality both situations have your agency removed, slowly dying while you hope a teammate will save you… plus if knock out isnt it play slugging is gonna be way worse than just hooking you 99% of the time. I really cant think of any solely slugging related reason that its so much less fun than being on hook.
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Seconding this. I'd also accept removing the aura-blocking completely but reducing the recovery penalty further to -50% and/or changing Blindness to something like 80 seconds so that even if they're picked up quickly there's still a lingering effect, and if they're slugged too long they're eventually able to crawl to teammates.
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at lleast on the hook, you can either get a chance to get off and move on. Instead of being on the ground bleeding out while the killer tunnels someone who isn’t slugged.
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If the issue is that survivors cant go next on the ground, thats not on slugging.
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It is the slugging. Not going to change my mind on this. The slugging has made the game almost unplayable for survivors.
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It should be pretty obvious why hooking isn't an attractive option to a seasoned killer player.
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the funny thing is all these killers saying the hooks are bad tm, when pain res is the most used perk in the game LMAO
they love lying. Hooking is fine, slugging is not.Post edited by Rokku_Rorru on1 -
Hooking means you'll have to put up with a lot more endurance and nothing is more frustrating for a killer than an invincible survivor.
As a 10k hour killer player and Ghostface specialist, I'd rather lose to good teamwork than lose because my hit didn't count, and if that can't be understood then idk what to tell the folks complaining.
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they aren't invincible LMAO save the best for last exists if you have issues with endurance as does rapid brutality, you shouldn't get free downs from unhooks, going from one unhealthy thing to another isn't justifiable, you will just get that changed too eventually.
I meme around with dog dracula and have fun with my m1 and vault builds and go for long range lunges, what does that have to do with 10k hours who is tryharding and can't play the game for fun anymore???1 -
Do you actually have to put up with Endurance if you hook, though?
If we're reasonable and assume the killer isn't tunnelling, that means we're necessarily narrowing the situation down by two separate, noteworthy steps;
- The survivor is actually trying to get in the killer's face with said Endurance, AND,
- The survivors were bombing the hook to insta-save, since you're still by the hook to even be in range of someone trying to bodyblock you.
I certainly get that those situations are annoying, but are they really so common that you'd forgo a major component of core gameplay and give up on all the benefits that come with it to avoid them?
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Is it true? By using slugging as a tactic, assassins no longer have to worry about 27 perks and 2 items (flashlight and sabotage toolbox).
Babysitter, Background Player, Boil Over, Breakdown, Breakout, Dead Hard, Decisive Strike, Deliverance, Flashbang, Kindred, Off the Record, Power Struggle, Flip-Flop, Reassurance, Resurgence, Saboteur, Second Wind, Unbreakable, Borrowed Time, We'll Make It, Wicked, Fast Track, Blood Rush, Slippery Meat, Camaraderie, Champion of Light and Residual Manifest.
Add to this all the minor buffs and nerfs to the quality of life of survivors. Anti-face camping, 10 seconds of hook, nerfs to hit and run styles (Save the Best for Last and Sloppy Butcher), and much more.
It is not surprising that killers began to look at alternative ways of playing, of which there are few left. Unstable endgame builds, placebo in the form of 4 nerfed slow perks, hit and run with insufficient strength. Naturally, slug, which eliminates many problems and crutches for survivors that treat the effect, not the cause. Will look attractive against this background.
You did not think that if you constantly hit the killer in the head? They will not be disappointed in the hook system one day, considering slugging a more profitable style.
Let's go further, by choosing slugging as a tactic, you as a killer can immediately exclude about 23 perks that are related to hooks. Although the main advantage of slugging is saving time. What killers lack so much these days and focusing on the most fun part of the game - the chase.
Average - Agitation, Mad Grit, Iron Grasp, Blood Echo, Starstruck
Weak – Alien Instinct, Awakened Awareness, Leverage, THWACK!
Of course, those perks that should motivate me to play from hooks, but have insufficient motivation.
Friends 'til the End is a great perk, but it only works well in conjunction with other perks. You need to do a build like Friends 'til the End, Nemesis, Furtive Chase and Alien Instinct. It's very much an acquired taste and is more suited for double tunneling, which survivors don't really like.
Dying Light. Weak joke
Barbecue & Chilli. Insufficient motivation to leave the hook, which is countered by a cabinet and the Distortion. After all, it is beneficial for everyone to have that poor guy camped on the hook, and not followed after you through 40 meters :) Friends 'til the End, by the way, copes better in this regard, as motivation to leave the hook.
Grim Embrace and Pop Goes the Weasel. The nerfs to these guys kind of reduced the motivation to spread hooks.
Dead Man's Switch It's kind of a buff, but also kind of a nerf. Rather, it has become weaker as a motivation for playing hooks and is an addition to Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance, without which it is insufficient.
Hex: Devour Hope If it weren't for the totem. I would always run away from the hanged man, the survivor to the other end of the map, but alas. You know which totems are useless and work only in the amount of 4 perk slots.
Make Your Choice. Wrong design as you will end up back on the hook or even circling within 32 meters.
Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance Random and Nerf slightly weakened the spread of hooks.
Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain random and nerf of the hit and run part slightly weakened the desire to spread hooks
Scourge Hook: Floods of Rage average
Scourge Hook: Monstrous Shrine weak effect. Needs to be strengthened to motivate leaving hooks
Scourge Hook: Hangman's Trick. Weak jokeBottom line. Only Friends 'til the End makes you want to play hooks, and that's with a specific build. It's very sad. Don't think I'm some kind of evil incarnate. I'm just a practitioner who's used to using what works and gives a decent impact. And the only thing that works in this game is slug. At least the killers become happier when playing slug. It's time to start making friends with Knock Out, Infectious Fright and Forced Hesitation.
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Yes you do have to put up with many players using 'Off The Record' to body block for a teammate, backed up by 'Dead Hard,' and if they still go down then 'Decisive Strike' gives them a free escape that they honestly didn't deserve. Even if you catch and hook a completely different survivor, 'Decisive Strike' from a previously hooked survivor will still punish you even though you didn't tunnel, completely screwing you out of tons of time that you don't have.
When stuff like that starts to happen regularly, hooking becomes about as attractive as a screen door on a space station.
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That's my point, though, you only have to deal with that kind of thing in the very specific scenario of survivors insta-saving so that the hooked teammate can bodyblock. Otherwise, to be at risk of hitting into OTR or DS, the survivor has to not touch a generator for up to a minute while you're off doing something else.
Does that really happen that often? Occasionally I have to ignore a survivor trying to bodyblock, but it's hardly that common.
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It isn't just insta-saving, they will seek you out immediately after unhook with plenty of time to get value out of OTR and DH right after. If you wait out the DH, they just DS. If you leave them knocked down, they just get picked up in short order. You continue after the person they blocked for and have nothing to show for it while 2 other survivors were repairing the whole time.
A complete abuse of things that are meant to combat "tunneling."
Why would a killer player choose to open up the opportunity for something so bogus and frustrating by hooking, when they could avoid such poorly implemented perks by playing for knockdowns instead?
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I guess if that happens to you a lot, I can see the frustration. I can confidently say it's never happened to me and the only time anyone tries to abuse anti-tunnel is when I'm already near the hook, though.
It is worth mentioning that the survivors are throwing here, though. You do have something to show for it- you have two survivors occupied, then a third occupied to pick up the person who tried to bodyblock if they force a down. I get that doesn't change it being annoying, but it does warrant saying.
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nobody plays twins to the point it becomes an issue.
and slugging is never really a problem unless a killer is already so much better and no matter what they do it's going to be an overkill.
it's really just a knockout problem specifically (or any permablindness effect in general) that it targets solo q ways of finding slugged teammates.
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The third is only occupied for the pickup, then straight back to the generator if it isn't already completed during the extra time created by the OTR intervention, in which case they fully heal the downed blocker and proceed to repair another generator. I definitely wouldn't call it a throw. The same process of intervention with OTR and DH can be repeated in cyclic fashion unless the killer does not play for hooks.
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Right, so you've got two survivors occupied by default, then a third occupied to finish a pickup and do a heal.
Compared to the alternative, which is that all three survivors are just doing generators from the start.
All the killer has to do is not take the bait and the survivors are absolutely throwing, they're just doing generators slower for no real benefit because they're not even denying hooks.
Worth mentioning none of this is relevant to Knock Out, btw, that perk is unhealthy either way.
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What do you mean take the bait? You're being blocked by someone with OTR/DH/DS which is preventing the next hook.
As for the relevance check, examples like what I've illustrated are the reason more killers are switching to a knockdown playstyle.
Also worth mentioning that being forced off a gen by knockout to find a teammate isn't unhealthy, it's a form of slowdown that's just unliked for redirecting agency. Endurance from certain perks, on the other hand, is pretty unhealthy because it allows you to play badly, free of consequence.
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The bait is chasing that survivor. You hit them once to remove collision and then you continue the chase you were already in.
Protection hits aren't nothing, but they don't give that much distance, and chances are the survivor wants you to actually play into their full suite of perks so they'll keep following you in the hopes you'll start chasing them. Just refuse to take that bait and you're totally fine.
Also, hard disagree on being forced to hunt for a slug being healthy, it really isn't. Coming off generators to pick someone up could be considered healthy slowdown, but not when it comes with hunting around blindly for a slug you have no idea where to look for. Knock Out, specifically, makes this situation unhealthy where it wouldn't be otherwise.
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Alright so you don't take that chase and instead chase one off a generator, then the others take their place at the generator and continue repair while you're back in the same scenario of chasing one healthy survivor, and the plan is to repeat the OTR intervention process until the gens are complete.
Protection hits will give you enough distance to get a pallet or window.
You can disagree, but that's where perks like Bond and Empathy come into play, letting you know exactly where to go or making it a lot easier to find people. And if knockout is being used more frequently, then why not just equip a perk that scrubs the problem aspect of having no clue where to look?
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Eh? What do you mean chase someone off a generator?
You're already in a chase in this scenario, right? How can the unhooked survivor be bodyblocking if there's nobody to bodyblock for?
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The blocker will continue to body block with DH as a backup and DS to follow up after you remove collision from OTR, so not taking the bait would be to not chase either the blocker or their protection target anymore and go chase someone off a generator, right? Then you're back to chasing one healthy survivor while the others take their place at the generator.
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They will attempt to bodyblock with DH/DS as a backup, but you're not chasing them. You're chasing the person they're trying to protect, because that survivor is as far away as you can get with a protection hit, which may take them to the next loop but certainly isn't far enough to warrant dropping chase entirely.
The "bait" is the bodyblocking survivor. Ignore them, and you're not taking the bait.
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