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Auras
So a lot of Killers cannot read the Auras while using their powers. Such as Spirit, Knight, Twins, Singularity, Dracula Bat Form Xeno in tunnels. And I wonder if Nurse could be added to this list. Now Predator and Zanshin getting nerfed wasn't just because of her but she is probably Gate keeping a bunch of other perks from being better.
Comments
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You can see auras in tunnels when playing as xeno
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yeah, thats kinda niche but really huge when it helps you locate the exact survivor running to the control station about to incapacitate themselves
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So like you can't see auras after you start charging the power and mid chain blinks till fatigue ends?
Probably a fine nerf
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Because like it or not, Nurse has one of the worse winrate. Plus her win rate at high MMR is not that good. Just check all the official stats the dev gave us.
Sure, there is one good content creator with more than 8000h on her, and pro scene experience destroying public lobbies with her but does that mean for the majority of the player base she is crazy broken ? No.She was already nerfed by the fact that her attacks are now special so please leave her alone.
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There is no way you're convincing anyone that Nurse is fine. No chance.
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I don’t need to convince anyone. Wa have the stats and they don’t lie. Ton of them btw, low MMR, high MMR, everything.
You can still believe whatever you want by the end of the day, Nurse won’t be balanced by the extreme minority playing the pro scene. And even there, she is not broken.4 -
stats are the most unreliable BS source of data in this game and Nurse&Skull merchant are the glaring proof of that.
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Skull merchant winrate was good. You are wrong.
TOP 5% Nurse was close to Pig, Pinhead, Oni, Wraith…She got nerfed since then (special attacks). Her skill floor is already hard to access if you nerf her more it is going to be even harder for new players.
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🤣
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Wa have the stats and they don’t lie.
Stats always lie.
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This was across all MMR. Nurse is not even close to the top (55%). For the majority of players, she is not a problem at all. She is just a "problem" for the veterans who refuse to learn how to play around her power.
Instead of wasting your time asking for nerfs, ask a good nurse to teach you.It is funny because I have a way easier time destroying lobbies on Singularity than Nurse. Yet nobody complains about him, I wonder why. Maybe it is because all the survivors need to do to try to counter me is to pick an EMP, even if it’s not really effective. Not much effort compared to Nurse.
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🤣
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Please stop relying on stats like these. They don't mean anything.
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They do. For who do you make a game ? The extreme minority "pro" scene or the majority of the player base, even at top 5% MMR ? Who generate revenue ? Who buys the skins ?
Nerfing nurse more will just hurt the new players, while butchering a fun and unique killer.
Please leave her alone. At this point it is just misogyny.3 -
Stats without context are worthless. Numbers have no meaning when you don't fully understand why they exist.
Also, you're seriously busting out the misogyny card? To argue against Nurse nerfs?
Seriously? Misogyny?
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Misogyny? For thinking Nurse is OP?
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Last I checked, survivors have an almost even split of 21 males to 23 females, give or take a few. And there are more male killers than female but many of those male killers are licensed from other properties and thus are not up to BHVR to decide what sex they are.
Also, everyone gets angry at every killer when they lose. People will get salty at Trapper, Wraith, and Doctor. You're also conveniently leaving out Blight.
Using misogyny as a shield to rebuff criticisms of Nurse is ridiculous.
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I meant most survivors skins being played.
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Survivor players are misogynist for choosing to play as women?
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This is blatantly disrespectful to people who actually live in and are under frequent the threats of actual misogynistic actions.
You are discussing a video game with people, and the character you see no reason to nerf has been almost unanimously considered the best character in the game since she was added to it as the very first post launch character.
Slinging around nasty words with no actual concept of the weight or meaning of them only promotes conflict, and we have than enough of that here as is.
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Xeno’s power is still designed around dealing with his tail in chase, not his tunnels.
You can’t pop up directly underneath the survivor like a mole, and immediately attack either, which Nurse can do with a blink directly ontop of Survivors.
I mean Pyramid Head with “I’m all ears” still needs to contend with his PoTD propagation wave being designed around survivors having a chance of sidestepping it in the open.
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Not going to answer this. I already made my point for nurse state and how she is not broken in the current game.1 -
That's not what a strawman is. Also you haven't made any points except citing meaningless statistics and bringing up whataboutisms.
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She has the worst win-rate because her kit is entirely reliant on mastering her power, as her base movespeed is 3.85m/s (she’s slower than survivors even), with basic chase she has nothing.
But with her Power she can cut out basically all chase tools if she lands on top of the survivor, which is where her strength lies.
A High skill-floor Killer.
Ironically, attributing misogyny to try to protect her because of perceived weakness, just from stats themselves, is a subtle form of misogyny derived from the bias of “Women are weak” used to structure your initial claim of misogyny in the first place, lol.
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Genuinely, I'm not doing this with you. Ascribing gameplay grievances to unconscious gender bias is one thing, saying "It's just misogyny at this point" when you don't like something you hear in a debate as if it's a baby blanket from criticism is insanely reductive and insulting to actual victims of crimes motivated by misogyny.
Negative attitudes toward women are insanely pervasive in the gaming industry, you being called out in an argument has nothing to do with that.
You can imply I'm naive because I don't hand out seriously reductive labels like candy, but frankly, that means absolutely nothing to me coming from someone with as little maturity as you seem to have. Good day.
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Meaningless statistics to you. You have a problem with reality because kill rates mean something.
So she is hard to play.
"But with her Power she can cut out basically all chase tools if she lands on top of the survivor"
The key word is "if". Guess what, most players can’t.
You ALL need to wake up here and open your eyes. MOST players can’t, that’s why her win rate across all MMR is so low.And even at TOP 5%, she is similar to other killers because even at this level players are not good enough to make her oppressive.
She SEEMS oppressive but as long as you manage to keep her busy her chase time will be similar to what any other killer could have done. But it doesn’t FEEL fair, so you have to come here and ask for nerfs. That’s quite pathetic.
But again, at the end of the day, stats don’t lie.
If she was that crazy broken like you keep claiming, her win rate at TOP 5% would be close to 80-90% but is it not.So for who are we balancing the game ?
The 0.1% or the 99.9% ?2 -
Meaningless statistics to you. You have a problem with reality because kill rates mean something.
I'm not the one pointing fingers and screaming "MISOGYNY! WAKE UP!" at people for calling a video game character overpowered. So I don't think I'm the one with a reality problem.
Kill rates mean something, but not when they come from people like you throwing them around fallaciously to justify your blatant bias.
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OK so Nurse is secretly overpowered but for some reason the huge majority of the playerbase can’t show it in game.
Sure.You probably saw a video from a dude with 8000h on her asking for nerfs so you decided to follow like a sheep not thinking about the majority of the playerbase.
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Yes, the key word is “if”.
That’s why I said she has a high skill floor.
She’s a feast or famine Killer entirely reliant on precision, benefiting heavily from excellent execution.
That is her playstyle niche, her design, and what is to be demanded, but not expected.
She’s the Killer designed for the “1%”.
(If you want to add some addons that retrofit her kit into something more easily used, go ahead, but I’d move that stuff to lower rarity addons instead of being iridescent like matchbook. In fact, make matchbook a yellow or something).
But make no mistake, made easier to play, her power would eventually still fall under scrutiny for its interaction with Auras while charging her Blink.
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Sounds nice, can I get killer instinct so I am not disoriented when I come out of a TV.
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Imaging what the "1%" can do with theses killers (just some examples) : Singularity, Spirit, Oni, Sadako. I know a lot of content creators who have insane winstreaks with them. They destroy lobbies. Do these killers need nerfs ? No.
So the argument that nurse in oppressive in the right hands can be applied to any decent killer.But for some reason, because the Nurse has a very unique power and is countered by line of sight instead of camping pallets (and running to shack for noobs), people are obsessed with the idea of nerfing her.
Again, learn her counterplay.Post edited by Murgleïs on3 -
Yes, Nurse does have a very unique power.
I actually like playing against Nurse: Where do I get the most line of sight blocks (instead of where the most pallets/vaults are)? If she’s far away, do I think she’ll try to blink on/in front of me/behind me? Where can I navigate to, to take advantage of blink travel time? Is she just going to try and consistently blink slightly behind me/cutoff paths to coral me to try and cut distance until she can get on top of me?
Unlike almost all other Killers that see Auras, she can blink onto them. Unlike most Killers, she is expected to use her Power for basic map traversal, and all chases. That is basically how she moves for any significant or timely distance.
I don’t mind Nurse using Auras to blink to faraway survivors as part of the mobility aspect of her Power (accomplished by looking at an aura before charging, then just sending it max distance that way), but what’s problematic is when she sees auras of Survivors she’s trying to blink at, as it removes a lot of the counterplay of double-backs behind cover and the like.
It’d be like introducing perks that made the killer able to walk through/ignore collision of vaults and pallets , only if a survivor used them recently.
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Remember that using aura perks means you don’t have any gen regression. Even if chases are lethal you can always die in corners and brute force rush gens. Especially since the HUD update you know exactly if your teammates are keeping the Nurse busy. If the Nurse starts to make mistakes gens are going to fly fast.
The 2 perks you are probably talking about are nowhere to hide and predator.
- nowhere to hide : just pre leave gens. She won’t get the info. Don’t show yourself for no reason, I see a lot people do that mistake. Nurse slow walking speed means she has to use her power even to check if a survivor is behind a rock. It adds up and waste a lot of time for her.
- predator : that’s another perk slot on aura reading. If you see the nurse breaking chase get as much distance as you can. Usually the Nurse has to stop because walking into the survivor scratchmarks keeps the chase going. Yes, she will get info on the first blink but it is always the point of the first blink to get info and the 2nd blink to secure the hit. This perk is only shining on indoor maps. On any open map it doesn’t add anything new.1 -
And Peanits already addressed Nurses killrates previously. He said she was a good example of why stats don't provide the full story. She is a free killer so is commonly tried out by new players. Her high skill floor means new players suffer alot more losses with her while trying to master her, which brings her killrates down.
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You keep dodging the stats we have for the top 5%.
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If regression perks are the end-all be-all for competitive play, they, or the aura perks, have design issues.
And yes, macro play is important, when to hook, who to target, what gens to check and ignore.
And to echo you, the key word is “if” the nurse makes mistakes. Which is exactly what Aura Perks are helping to diminish (at least in chase) by providing more accurate information on her 1st blink.
Regarding nowhere to hide: Max range blinks on gens, the benefit of mobility to overcome the distance lost with the fatigue and to get a jump on survivors, possibly seeing them first even without needing to use nowhere to hide.
Predator: well, she already walks slow, try to walk away from the scratch marks/around a wall, tailor your movement to end the chase fast without losing too much distance through alternate pathing.
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Spirit - Her power deletes surv models from her PoV entirely. They don't block auras. The distinction is important, because genuine aura blocking would disable the ability to see gens and considering how often Nurse needs to blink, that'd be an issue.
Drac/Knight - reuses spirit code
Larry/Twins - This has more merit, but lemme explain why the auras are blocked. Victor and the cams are not considered to be the "killer' which means they have their ability to see auras disabled. Victor, in particular, is extremely buggy in this regard as he's supposed to see gens auras. The workaround here is simply not having any aura perk work when they're not the killer. Nurse, while blinking, is still "the killer." No real loophole to exploit.
Xeno - She can absolutely see auras.
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Suppose that could be grounds for an “Oblivious” status for Killers, that just suppresses Survivor auras.
Reuse the Lightburned naming for such an effect.
(Frankly would be needed anyway, if survivors get more information/misinformation warfare tools going forward)
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The 3 changes I think Nurse needs are: -
- Nerf - Blindness during charging a blink and during a blink.
- Nerf - Reset blink tokens on a stun (survivors actually get rewarded for successfully stunning her rather than going down anyway 3 seconds later).
- Buff - Get rid of yanking her camera down during fatigue and instead have her release breathe, the world turns white and survivors go invisible for the duration of the fatigue.
Blindness Blinks
SupaAlf has been suggesting Blindness while Nurse is charging a blink and during blinks as a change for a while, and it's such an elegant solution.
Nurse has unique mind games from the fact she in slower than survivors and must blink to land hits, but she ignores the usual counters survivors have... moving erratically and counter to her predictions makes it harder for her to adjuat and more likely to miss, and this is a lot of fun for both sides. Nurse is satisfying to land hits on, and survivors get to actually try and juke.
However those mind games don't mean anything while she has auras up, she can just blink perfectly knowing exactly what a survivor is doing at all times. Auras basically kill her own unique blink prediction gameplay, and should not be a thing.
Stun Token Reset
Nurse doesn't typically get stunned, she doesn't play pallets, and trying to flashlight save vs. a Nurse is... brave... to say the least. Decisive Strike is reasonably the only stun you're likely to get, and that doesn't often let you get anywhere to avoid the next double blink since she already has it fully charged.
Resetting tokens on stuns would add actual rewards for successfully throwing a pallet on Nurse as a prediction of her blink, and makes a flashlight save a tangible risk vs. a reward.
Decisive Strike doesn't have as much effect as you think. On 2 blink Nurse it takes 6s to recharge blinks, the 4 second stun will result in it having only 2 seconds to go before she is back to full charges... however with the blind change, 2 seconds could be enough to allow you to break line of sight and continue playing the Nurse mind games. Where DS really shines is 3 blink Nurse, which now becomes 9 seconds before Nurse is back to full kilter, making DS actually useful at limiting 3 blink Nurse's unbelievable chase down power for a time. She's still very dangerous after a DS, but the survivors chances of doing something are a little better with this change.
Fatigue Visual Rework
One big problem with Nurse's accessibility is she is so disorientating to play, and even causes motion sickness. A newer player has not learned the maps yet and so needs to look around to keep context of where they are and try and predict survivor movement. Yanking their camera down however doesn't allow them to assess where a survivor might go while they recover from a missed blink.
Changing her Fatigue to cause her to temporarily lose connection to the world as she releases her breathe and take a moment ot realign would allow newer players to try and figure out where the survivor has gone and also not feel so horrible to play.
I'd like to give Nurse more changes to help newer players, but fundamentally Nurse is about learning to blink.... so there is only so much you can do.
However that's the last few changes I think Nurse needs and she is golden.
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The problem with this is that if you remove her ability to use auras then Nurses will have no reason not to just run full slowdown. And full slowdown Nurse is way more oppressive than aura Nurse.
She needs to be reworked honestly because her design just breaks the entire game.
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Aura/Screams can still be useful at range, to more quickly engage and find priority targets (Be they survivors or generators). Information is a powerful tool if used well.
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I find it weird they seem to keep buffing aura perks but they gutted Distortion at the same time.
For the record, I was a Nurse main for years (from 2019 - 2022) and I also don't use Distortion but I think allowing full aura builds on a killer like Nurse is absolutely insane.
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its design doesn’t break game, it just requires your own approach, it’s a killer of mind games, so if you turn off your brain and just throw away pallets, you’ll lose, try run behind the textures and run out at the nurse, make unexpected movements, jump into lockers when you are far away, hide behind the textures, etc. if you want, imagine that you are playing against Michael hide from her gaze, so the less she sees you, then more she has to guess
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You are really that kind of person who only refers to the Stats when it benefits you. I am very sure that I have seen you in other Threads about high Killrates arguing against it, yet when Nurse has a low Killrate, that is all which is matters. That it is widely known and anyone who has somewhat of a clue of the game knows that she is the strongest Killer, does suddenly not matter.
Your argument for Nurse are also a bit funny. She needs practice, she is a woman and she is free2play. Out of those arguments, only one can really matter and it is the last one. And IMO this is one of the main reasons why she does not get any significant Nerfs, because BHVR can always say that the strongest Killer does not cost any money for any Pay2Win-allegations.
That she needs practice is honestly a joke, because her difficulty is highly overrated. She does not really need more practice than other Killers, the only thing is that practice on Nurse does not help you with any other Killer, while any other Killer can provide practice for most of the Killers of the Roster. But you really need to do much to be decent at Nurse to the point that you win most of your games. I guess a few hours (way below 10) and you are good enough.
And that she is a woman is a stupid argument, sorry. Nobody who likes to play her does it because she is a female Killer, she could be a nonbinary blue blob and players would still play her.
@Topic:
Yes, a Nerf to Auras for Nurse would actually make sense. Her having Blindness when charging a blink or in fatique would actually nerf her. Because honestly, every Killer-Nerf is a Joke as long as Nurse is allowed to exist like that. She is not that hard to play and by far the strongest Killer. And IMO she should at some point reach a Strength-Level where people who make Tier Lists have actually have to argue why she is the best or consider that she might not be the best and not just slap her on Top of S-Tier and call it a day with a "It is Nurse".
And sadly I guess that Predator was nerfed because of Nurse and thats it. Because I have not seen any other Killer using this Perk and I have not used it myself on any other Killer than Nurse. Sure, it has its uses, but the use on Nurse is the most significant one since it turns of the only counter Survivors have against her.
And in general, she really holds back Perk-Design. It is time that the Devs hammer her with the Nerf-Bat instead of giving her a few slaps on the wrist. They are tinkering with so many Killers, yet Nurse is allowed to be so broken that she does not play DBD anymore. If I compare her to Billy, it is really a bad Joke - first Billy got slapped on Overdrive which really lowered the playrate and then when he got buffed and was STILL not as good as Nurse, he got slight Nerfs. Not unjustified, but as I said - as long as Nurse can exist like she is, other Killer-Nerfs are just a joke.
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In a vacuum that works, but with a lot of maps having few line of sight breakers to use and the fact that you can use some aura perks to basically remove this counter play in a lot of scenarios, I think it's fair to say that she is at least very poorly designed and unhealthy for the game. Maps like The Game or Borgo there is almost nothing you can do against her except hope the player is not that good at her yet.
Multiple perks have been nerfed because of her and multiple perks that could be useful can't be buffed at all because of her. I think that alone should justify her receiving some changes. Maybe breaking the design of the game wasn't the correct term to use, but you can't deny that she is has a negative effect on balancing the game.
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I'm more for a complete reworked of her power, but it sounds like a reasonable nerf to me. Aura on nurse makes her incredibly easy to play and takes away any kind of "counterplay" a survivor has.
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Don’t you ever win games against Nurse ?
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