Can someone tell me why killers need 20 aura reading perks?
Is patrolling gens that hard? With hook camping/tunneling being at a game breaking high do they really need more aura reading? Get hooked, aura read, get unhooked, aura read, break a gen, aura read, pallet drop, aura read, lose chase, aura read, gens finishes, aura read. Why do killers need so many different perks that do the same thing? Get some damn variety. Anyone remember when killers actually had to do work to find survivors? Like you know "hunt" them as huntress? Like holy hell, survivors had ONE aura hiding perk. Then because tunneling was an issue they gave off the record until you perform a "suspicious action". Like why do survivors hide? Because that's all we can do anymore and yall made it that way.
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You could say the exact same thing about survivors' aura reading perks though. You drop a pallet in chase? Aura read. The killer breaks said pallet? Aura read. You finish a gen? Aura read. The killer hits another survivor? Aura read. You get unhooked? Aura read. Once you start to identify when a killer has a perk that reveals your aura, you should be playing around it. Pretending not to know that the killer can see your aura is the perfect opportunity to mindgame, and taking that opportunity can be extremely fun and rewarding.
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I do find it weird how they completely gutted Distortion but seem to be buffing everything aura for killer. I am not a Distortion user by default, there are far more useful perks, however when I have used it the one thing I did notice is how often you get (or got) value out of it due to the sheer amount of aura perks in the game lately.
Then you get other matches with a killer like say Trapper, where you got zero value as Trappers don't tend to run full aura builds. The worst part is the killers that can take full advantage of this free info are often the ones that really don't need it.
With the insane amount of perks and addons in the game now, it can be hard to even realise that your aura is being exposed or even killer instinct is giving up your positional advantage. It is not what I would call a fun or highly interactive meta we are entering
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Off the Record's aura effect isn't cancelled by a conspicuous action. Also Shadow Step exists and Distortion is pretty good now after it's newest buffs.
There is a lot of aura perks being run now, but that's partially because there isn't really anything else to run aside from slow down which people also don't like to play against.
- Non-aura tracking perks are awful so why run them.
- Chase perks are mostly mediocre aside from Coup and Bamboozle on a select few killers. And a large chunk of the cast can't even use the basic attack ones. STBFL was the only one they could use but that could nerfed.
- Stealth perks are generally pretty bad and already stealthy killers/lullaby killers can't use them.
- Exposed perks are too situational and again don't work on a large chunk of the killer cast.
- I don't need to explain why hex perks are awful.
The unfortunate truth is that if anything is useable in this game, generally it isn't fun to play against.
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Because the game is overloaded with stuff, so its a lot copy + paste in the perks.
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excuse me. Newest "buff" to Distortion? You mean the slight backpedalling on nuking it? Shadow step exists and someone who manages to get consistent value from it will be even more useless than that apparently omnipresent Distortion user who does nothing but hide all match.
"The unfortunate truth is that if anything is useable in this game, generally it isn't fun to play against." — That one I wholeheartedly agree to though.
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"Once you start to identify when a killer has a perk that reveals your aura, you should be playing around it."
The problem with the myriad of aura reading that's in the game and that keeps getting added is though, that it's virtually impossible to tell if a killer has aura read or what prompted it. If it was just a handful of options - sure. I'd be 100% behind the "just play around it" angle. But in order to play around something you need to be able to reliably identify that something. Which you can't. - If they at least did it like in the 2v8 where you got the icon when your aura was being read by a killer, I'd say: sure, use your brain and figure it out. But as it is, nah
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Call it whatever you want, it's still a fairly good perk now. It's not as powerful as before but it isn't useless like people are saying.
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It is trash tier.
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If you were a Distortion user you'd know the perk is still pretty strong. It's only a problem for survivors hiding all the time.
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Distortion is still great for safely identifying what aura perks are in play, just how it used to be before it recharged tokens at all and was still regarded as a decent perk.
There's Object of Obsession if you're feeling a bit more confident, which isn't as risky as people think.
But I think we could do with more tools for this.
Spine Chill is pretty useless in it's current state. I think it woukd be neat if it activated whenever your aura was revealed by the killer. This way it becomes a tool for learning and identifying aura reads, which is fitting for a generic perk. Doesn't hide yours, but is always active so more consistent than Distortion.
As for aura blocking, we have a good spread between Distortion, OtR and Shadow Step now. We could do with a fourth option though, something like "hides your aura for 10 seconds after a generator is repaired" or "for 10 seconds after losing a health state", something to cover circumstances the other three don't.
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Me! Ex-Distortion user :)
It's not strong enough to be viable. Im sure everyone has done their testing and we will get different results. But it fails in three major categories now and simply isn't worth much anymore.
To those who support it, cool!
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I have used distortion, I know it can be strong and I do know it is also used (or abused?) by survivors who hide rather than interact. That is boring in itself and not fun for killer either… but there has to be a middle ground surely?
Well either way it doesn't matter now as they essentially killed Distortion so I guess the aura reading meta is in full swing now.
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I've played with four aura-reading perks against a team with four distortions.
I was essentially perk-less during the whole match. They only need a 15 seconds chase to recharge, which is short enough to be enabled before an aura reading comes into play.
In total, I got two auras during the match, while they were healing. That's quite a lot of Distortion value right there.
Distortion is only weaker for the ones who never get into a chase, which was the main problem of the perk.
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Just read my previous post about how "killed" it is. Only the problematic players are affected.
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This is the middle ground.
30 seconds in terror radius vs 15 seconds in chase. They're different but not necessarily worse.
The former is better for survivors who want to hide constantly.
The latter is better for players who actually engage the killer in chase. It's also better against killers with small or no terror radius. And considering that aura perks are the stealth killers best friends...
As a Mirror Myers player. OtR was always my biggest nemesis, old Distortion was never a problem because I burned through it in 30 seconds and it never recharged. New Distortion however recharges quite easily against me, and it screws me over quite a bit
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The rats persist. The claim all it did was let rats hide all game has already, vehemently been proven false.
I used it for the nurses, Blights, and Huntress' that just loved their aura's. Like the claim survivors can't loop without WoO, those three feel about the same without aura reads. Some even DC.
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"vehemently been proven false".
Funny, I've never seen any proof at all about that, so imagine "vehemently".
You should learn to make more moderated statements. Do I need to tell you how it otherwise sounds?
So all I get is that you were using Distortion against killers using it. Well, that's kind of the point of the perk isn't it?
Now these always-hiding players can't have that much benefit from it, which is good.
But by all means, don't use Distortion anymore. 😁
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Aura reading is out of control, and I fear the problem is that now so many killer players (especially new ones) will become so conditioned to using them, that they'll riot if they're nerfed.
Of course I'm an old fart who cut my teeth actually tracking survs and making predictions, but it is tempting to throw some of these perks on. But I retrain myself to only one per build most of the time. Back in the day there were really only 2-3 aura perks you saw with any regularity, and aside from old OoO, they were easy enough to counter if you were paying attention.
Now you you have to assume most killers are constantly seeing your aura (even if they aren't). It's absurd.
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Im not. Object is much more fun.
And focus on word choice instead of substance, fine by me. My 'proof' is experience and other word of mouth. Definitely not BHVR stats or nitelight BS.
You should learn to make more moderated statements. Do I need to tell you how it otherwise sounds?
I say what I mean. Your opinion of it can be whatever you want. Its all about your perspective.
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Maybe because there are more than 100 killer perks.
I mean, what do you want a killer perk to do? We have chase perks (though most of them are pretty bad), info perks and slowdown perks. What else is left?
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It was never really about stealthy survivors hurting each other or whatever nonsense excuse killer mains cooked up. I have not seen a player use distortion to hide all match. In fact out of hundreds of games I don’t believe I have seen this kind of playstyle more than a handful of times... And I’m low to mid MMR, where this playstyle should be fairly common.
I am skeptical of players who claim to see this distortion strategy often. Anyway, I think killer mains only said it because they wanted to circumvent being called out for wanting to nerf a perk that was harmless yet helpful to survivors. It’s like the ptb Reassurance argument all over again. They’ll lie and say “well it hurts other survivors11!!!” And you’ll never see that in practice.
It was never about stealthy survivors who, interestingly, can still play stealthy with distortion nerfed. But wait look there’s two killer perks for that: Darkness Revealed and Iron Maiden.
It was never about survivors hurting each other at all.
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well killers can still only bring 4 perks at a time
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Survivors have 137 perks in game atm and killers have 118. A large chunk of survivor ones have big stipulations for a small buff for non critical objectives.
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I think that might have been their point for calling out your wording: Anecdotes are not enough evidence to have
"vehemently been proven false".One person's perspective and experience does not rule out someone else's, especially in a game with as many variables as this one.Its perfectly ok to have a conflicting experience vs someone else's, but that experience is not fact across the entire userbase. Hyperbole doesn't help bridge the gap between the two either, as it makes your stance more exaggerated and less relatable.
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Zone control perks (see boons). Seeker Perks (Searching for a Chest-like Item to interact with it, but for Killer). Meme-able perk like No Mither/Bardic. Disinformation Objective (See Dream Pallets/Mirrored Illusion). Ability Override Perk (see Blighted Serum, arguably Exhaustion Perks). Resource manipulation (See: Any Means Necessary).
You know, speaking of that, the Killer has zero chase resources. Maybe they could include a Perk that lets the player lay down a tripwire trap?
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You can't take 20 aura reading perks. You can only take 4.
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20 Aura reading perks and survivors had 1 mid perk to counter them which has now been ruined because killers moaned too much about survivors trying to enjoy themselves.
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I understand you feel strongly about it.
However the word "proof" is pretty strong. A proof is undeniable. If you tell it's about people speaking here, yes, indeed. But it's not a proof at all. A lot of people are biased, especially with what they consider a bad experience.
If we are talking about experience, may players, me included, saw how many of he Distortion users were playing. The ones without Distortion were the biggest victims in these matches.
Now suddenly after the patch these egotistical players can't benefit from Distortion. I had not a single game like this since the change. I still have good teams using Distortion though. Just no cowards.
Distortion is still a PITA but at least it's not stupid anymore.
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I see. I can't argue with this because its correct. Thank you.
Yeah, apologies. I was using my own experiences as the de-facto reality and that's clearly not the case. Perspective expanded.
Please define PITA? Not familiar.Edit: Nevermind, I understand it now lol
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Can someone tell me why survivors need 20 second chance perks?
Is looping the killer really that hard? With gen rushing being at a game breaking high do they really need more second chances? Sprint burst, finish gen, OTR, finish gen, Dead hard, Finish gen, predrop a god pallet, finish gen, lose the killer, unbreakable, finish gen, endgame with hope. Why do survivors need so many different perks that do the same thing? Get some damn variety. Anyone remember when survivors actually had to do work to loop killers? Like you know "survive" against them as survivors? Like holy hell, killers had one second chance perk. Then because gen rushing was an issue they gave tons of gen defense perks. Like why do killers camp/tunnel? Because that's all we can do anymore and yall made it that way.
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You mean: One bottom tier perk. Two mid tier perks. And a top tier perk which invalidated the other three until it was nerfed back to an upper-mid tier.
Off the Record and Shadow Step are still great perks, and new Distortion is still good so long as you are chased by the killer at some point in the game.
Sole Survivor is still very niche but it exists.
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So survivors don’t want killers to have aura reading.
They don’t want them to have Gen slowdown.
What am I allowed to use? Unrelenting? Or is that too strong?
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All good friend 😀
our personal experiences do a lot with our overall outlook, so its understandable.
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Because that's all we got, do gens or run. Yall complained about hiding, so we run or we do gens.
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You know what's funny? If you'd say that in 2016, you'd have been criticized.
Unrelenting Description: You recuperate faster from any attack made with your main weapon. The cooldown of missed attacks is reduced by 16/22/30%. The cooldown of successful attacks is decreased by 10/16/22%.
Pair that with STBFL.
STBFL Description: For as long as your Obsession is alive, the following effects apply: Reduces the cooldown duration of missed basic attacks by 14/18/20%. Reduces the cooldown duration of successful basic attacks by 25/29/33%.
We used to call it "Machine Gun".2 -
Its kinda wild how a lot of both sides complaints basically boil down to removing options from the other side. It would be nice if that was considered more often, regardless of role.
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Bhvr, this should fix the game. It's an equal trade. Just axe all aura and second chance perks.
Honestly, I'd wonder what the metas would settle on if that happened. 🤔0 -
We are talking about killer perks. Territorial perks for killers are generally not a good idea because they would be effective in 3gens and not much else. Maybe on a small map like The Game or Midwich but these maps are already not good for survivors. You generally have very limited capabilities to decide the direction a survivor will run in because they are the one that is running from you, not the other way around.
Seeker perks are fundamentally not in tune with the killer role. Putting a second objective on the killer can only work, if it was somehow stronger than going after survivors. Which would immediately result in the perk either being broken or incredibly weak. Not to mention, that it would take away interaction between the killer and the survivors.
Meme perks are a fine idea, although we do have some of those already. Distressing is mostly a meme perk and though Two Can Play doesn't nerf you directly it's pretty close to a meme perk as well.
Disinformation perks similar to Freddy's dream pallets might sound like a good idea but the problem is that they need some restrictions and are likely not going to work against SWFs (see original Legion concept). These restrictions could either come with these perks being hex perks or something else. Hex perks in general are probably not the best approach anymore. Let's be honest, there is a reason why they are quite unpopular. Other restrictions again are very hard to balance. There is also the issue that as of now 2 killers already have fake pallets (Doctor and Freddy).
I have no idea how you would even attempt to balance an ability overriding perk. Not to mention, that these would also need some restrictions so that you couldn't just dash and immediately get a M1. Otherwise, playing against a Myers or Ghostface would be a horrible time. Exhaustion perks for killers have the same general flaw in concept.
Resource manipulation counts as chase perks. We do have some of these already. Bamboozle, Crowd Control and Blood Favour come to mind. What else would you do? Something like Mage Hand? That's literally a killer power, so that will never happen and with good reason. If it was Mage Hand for windows, that would be horrible to play against and I guarantee you such a perk would be hated. Unless of course it came with a downside so terrible that the perk would never be used. Remote pallet breaking is already a part of Knight's power, so that is not an option either. Not to mention that people would hate such a perk as well.
You only have so many options and you need to keep in mind that these perks could synergise with killer powers. We already know that the devs are not too keen on the idea to ban some perks from specific killers, so that issue can't be disregarded.
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Just wanted to add devs try to avoid perks that are used to buff killers powers since it makes balance a headache. Remember the original function of tinkerer?
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I don’t think it’s that big of a deal tbh
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I play about 50/50 survivor/killer, and I feel that nerfing Distortion was a terrible decision by the devs. They essentially eliminated stealth playstyle as an option for survivors who prefer to play that way, either because they enjoy it more or because they aren't great at looping. It's really frustrating that perks get nerfed not because they are OP (which old Distortion was not), but because they are "used too frequently". Nobody ever bothered considering that the reason it was used frequently is because it is the only way to viably play a stealth playstyle due to the crazy amount of aura reading abilities available to killers now.
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Hmm, what about:
Remnant: Solitude - See the Auras of Dull Totems. You can interact with them to create a Remnant: Solitude Totem (Similar to a Rekindled Totem). You gain the Undetectable Status while within 32m of this Totem and for 6/8/10s after leaving it.
(Remnants are cleansed/blessed faster than other Totems and are consumed by The Entity when cleansed.)
Emissary: Telltale - Blood Ravens spawn within the Trial. The Aura of Blood Ravens appear to you within 16m. Interaction with a Blood Raven will reveal the Aura of Survivors within 32m for 10s. Survivors can disturb Blood Ravens, however you will not.
Fair, there are some meme perks.Regarding resource manipulation, that is also fair. Though I was thinking about a perk that introduces a new resource, rather than a removal or blockage of one. Though I don’t know what a Killer resource could be, perhaps:
Graverobber - Searching a locker disturbs a restless spirit. The next time a Survivor moves within 8m in front of this Locker, a Haunt will burst from it. Survivors disturbed by this Haunt will Scream and become Hindered by 10% for 4/5/6s
Scourge Hook: Twisted Ties - After Hooking a Survivor on a scourge Hook, gain a Token. While you have a Token, standing underneath an Empty Scourge Hook allows you to press the Ability Button while looking at another Empty Scourge hook to teleport to that location.
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It doesn't matter what the new meta would be, because every perk in it would suddenly become "unfair" and "oppressive" and players would demand it be removed too.
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Its BHVR's intention for killer to be elementary level. That's why they buffed aura reading but nerfed the counterplay to it.
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it would be a simple as including the aura read notification from 2v8 in 1v4. That had to be one of the best new player experience improvements they've added in years. BUT learnt NOTHING from it as per usual.
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Yeah, I haven't played at the time but I'm aware of the original effect. Good point.
Remnant Solitude sounds like a pretty strong perk on small maps but much less impactful on big maps. Getting value out of it would require a survivor to be somewhat close to that area. Plus, if they see you, the undetectable effect is useless, so you also need some large LoS blockers.
If we compare that to other undetectable perks that is quite niche. On smaller maps on the other hand you would be undectable for pretty much the entire match. I'm not 100% against such a perk but it would be quite a pain to play against on something like Midwich.
Emissary: Telltale sounds like an interesting perk although we are back at aura perks. The general concept of these could be nice though, if we were to redesign them to act like a little trap. Say you put a Blood Raven somewhere and when it is disturbed, the survivor that disturbed it gets some kind of debuff.
I like the general concept a lot, however each Blood Raven would need to have a pretty small range, you would need to be able to place multiple ones (otherwise it would only work for a more territorial play style) and survivors would need some kind of way to get rid of them. At that point it's complex enough to be the foundation of an entire killer power. It would probably also need a downside that Blood Ravens remain inactive for some time when you place them because otherwise it would end up similarly to Skull Merchant's drones where you just place one at whatever loop you are when chasing a survivor.
Graverobber sounds a little difficult to balance. It could be pretty strong on indoor maps. It would probably counter the shack and some of the other strong structures as well. Although that would depend on how many lockers can be affected simultaneously. If it's multiple ones, that could make this perk very strong (although probably not very fun to play against since there is pretty much nothing you can do once you are at a loop with such a locker), if it was only one that would make this perk very niche. Again, I very much like the concept but there would need to be a lot of fine tuning.
I'm not sure what to think of Scourge Hook: Twisted Ties. It would be massively RNG reliant but it could be a pretty powerful perk with a bit of luck.
Honestly, I respect your creativity. These are some very interesting indeas. If you haven't done so, you should definitely make a post in Feedback and Suggestions.
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appreciate the kind words, might post those there, and moreso appreciate the feedback, good points.
And in regards to the Aura part of Emissary’s, yeah. Unfortunately the main cornerstones of the game have already been leveraged by many existing perks, don’t think there’s new area to tread: Information, Mobility, Lethality, Delay. At this point it’s a question on how you package everything.
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That was the point of my first post in this thread. We have something for pretty much every niche already and with the amount of perks both sides have, it's not very surprising that any category will have a lot of perks that fit into it.
The idea certainly wasn't to give killers a specific amount of aura perks but it's a natural outcome when there are so many perks in the game and many of them are hybrids that fit multiple categories because one effect on its own might be too difficult to balance or straight up useless without the other (Friends Til The End is one such example).
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Yeah I don't understand it, particularly when buffing so many aura perks/addons over the last while.
I get why killers find stealth playstyle annoying as survivors who constantly hide can make for boring plays but on the other hand I also get it and I don't feel the need to tell these players how they should enjoy the game.
I spent a lot of my first hours in the game absolutely terrified and hiding (lol) and avoiding chases whenever possible and I still had fun doing that, believe it or not. I ended up being the complete opposite thousands of hours later but I personally don't hate immersed players as I get it…. just so long as they do the damn gens I am fine with taking chase
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Can anyone tell me why survivors always need exhaustion perks?
Can anyone tell me why survivors always need 2nd chances?
Can anyone tell me why survivors always run Windows of Predropportunity?
None of these are fun to verse. Aura reading on the other hand only means you die if you're a bad survivor. Good survivors that actually LIKE to be chased LOVE aura reading killers.
Hell, back in the day I used to run OLD Object of Obsession, WAY back when the killer could see you CONSTANTLY. I WANTED the killer to know where I was. Like, get better at chase and aura reading isn't going to be a hinderance.
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