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Hit validation.
Who else thinks hit validation is long due for a pass? Especially on Vaults, now that the game shows the killer ping, it is super clear that as a killer the higher your ping the better advantages you've got, until a certain threshold of course. It is frustrating and unfair for survivors and for killers with a good ping, why should I find myself thinking "If I had 30ms more that would've hit", why should I lose a game another higher ping killer could've won, why should I get punished for it?
Full res clip here https://streamable.com/zlitve
Comments
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Getting it from both sides as survivor some times hit from a mile away. As killer sometimes hit someone literally touching me and the game is like nope
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its cause of bad ping on killer side. Killers with bad ping get a buff for hitting and survivors with bad ping are nerfed in taking more hits.
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I hate it as killer so much, I want to hit people fairly. I don’t want to miss someone who is standing on my toes and I don’t want to hit someone from Kentucky.
I’d rather it be my skill then my ping that takes out a survivor
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as 50-60 ping killer who gets consistently matched with 20 ping gamers, i'd say i wouldnt want to get it any worse, especially since i have no control over my ping and it's the best i could have.
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I can’t think of any other game that rewards players for having bad ping. And only when it’s one particular role at that. SMH.
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To be fair for him it looked probably fine, it looks a lot for survivors than killers most of the time xD
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Well sometimes even the killer gets robbed from the easiest hits because of hit validation. I had so many instances where I hit the survivor while they are dropping a pallet and I hear the survivor scream as if i hit them but nope.. it doesn’t register as a hit and it’s super frustrating..
I have a great internet connection and never use vpn but my ping is always high.. but it’s not my fault. I think the game is either keep sending me to the wrong server or just don’t have a dedicated server for the Middle East players (im from saudi arabia)
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Yeah, those window hits will never not feel awful as a surv. Especially when you've hit the ground and taken a step or two when it registers.
But 90% of the time it looks fine from the killer side, so they have no idea, just like survs don't know when they just got totally bailed out by auto aim. But I have landed a few of those latency/vault hits as a killer where I could see how bad it was, and all I could do was laugh at how dirty it was.
Not sure they're really any worse than other latency hits, it's that they're just so obvious there. Kind of like when a Huntress hatchet whizzes past you 3 meters to the side and it registers as a hit, or when Wesker grabs you from around the corner. What can you do?
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as a 35-40 ping killer I wouldn't want to lose hit you would get, thank you
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VPNing killers have been rewarded with bs hits for years. Meanwhile I have good ping as killer and get my hits robbed (sometimes).
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You get robbed because that's not what happened, you saw a hit but it simply wasn't for the server the survivor had already dropped a pallet. No, middle east players are connected to frankfur probably
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Quick clarification - both sides get a "hit validation" favor. Killers get straight up hit validation favor. Survivors get interrupt validation favor. That's why when you're a killer and you literally start to grab the survivor and do the pick up animation, that suddenly, you'll freeze and then the survivor is already running away - from their POV, they let go of the gen and already started running. Same as when you harpoon someone as deathslinger, and while attached to the chain, they continue to run to the window, vault the window, and THEN they get "stuck" on the harpoon on the other side. From the survivor's POV, they already made the window when they got harpooned.
Long story short, both sides get favor on validation. If you're going to fix one, then you should fix both sides. They each get their own favor to try to balance out a sucky reality of ping issues.
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You are completely wrong on everything, you got 100% of your message wrong. There is no "validation favor" or "interrupt favor" you made both of these terms up. The killer has what's called "Attacker advantage" on this game, as explained by BHVR themselves on this blog post
https://web.archive.org/web/20210117183136/https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/185864That means that as long as the ping differential is not too high (the threshold is way too high right now) even if the server see the survivor in a different position, it will take the killer packets anyway and accept the hit. This was made not the case (in 2020) with pallets and grabs, right now if the survivor has dropped a pallet and the server registers that pallet drop before the killer hit, it will reject the hit and if the server registers that the survivor left a gen, even if the killer sends a grab, it will reject it and m1 instead. This is no "favor" for the survivor, but rather a "non favor" for the killer, the server got the pallet drop, and the game acts like every other multiplayer game made in history instead of rewarding high ping.
For deathslinger it is another story: in this game, animations cannot be interrupted, if you try to pallet stun a killer picking up a survivor during the animation, the pallet save will fail, because the killer was in an animation, same if you hit a survivor entering a locker (they will enter anyway) or stun a nurse in fatigue. The same case applies to deathslinger, if the survivor already queued the animation for the fast vault (you can do it far enough from a window) the animation will have to finish before they can enter another one (deathslinger harpoon)All of this comment was not necessary since what you said was just wrong and admitted so by the developers in the blog post i linked above, survivors have no "favors", the attacker advantage only applies to the killer, saying otherwise is just literally not true and was said by the developers many many times.
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How can yo u see anything with such a red filter.
It's so ugly.
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That was the mending status
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You are very misinformed. See the devs' literal comments below. As for an example, with the deathslinger, I'm talking without them even being at the window. You'll shoot them, it'll impact, they'll continue running forwards (not yet at the window), and once they get to the window, then they start the vault animation, and then they get "stuck" to the harpoon once the animation ends. The funniest one I've seen this happen was when I harpooned someone while they were running up the stairs and they kept running to the window, then they got "stuck" as they fell out the 2nd story window and we just stared at each other from the 2nd and 1st floor. His friends on his stream were like ######### just happened, but the survivor was confused what they were talking about because from his POV he got harpooned as he vaulted.
This is exactly how it works in this game. What the killer sees generally goes when they are attacking. It would make for a crappy gameplay for the killer if they hit people but don't do damage. What the survivor sees generally is what goes when it comes to interuptions. The devs stated this clearly on numerous occasions. They said it felt bad from a survivor POV to run from a gen only to get teleported back to a gen to get grabbed off of it, so they changed it where interruptions are survivor favored to make it less jarring. When this occurs, a damage state is instead inflected on the survivor to essentially act as compensation for the killer having his grab revoked. However, there's been several reports that the damage state compensation isn't working correctly, so it's a bit iffy if you actually do damage.
Long story short, it sucks as a killer to hit people but not do damage, so they gave killer favored hit detection. It sucks as survivor to run away from a gen and suddenly get teleported back to the gen to get grabbed, so they gave survivor favored interruptions (deathslinger harpoon counts as an interruption. You can test this with a laggy survivor). You can believe whatever you want, but I'm basing this off what the devs have stated on numerous times, and frankly, it matches up to what happens ingame, so I have little reason to doubt the devs' word.
Here's a synopsis of Peanits on interruptions.
"1) The killer sends a grab request to the server. The server double checks everything is all good, and sends the message back to the killer their grab is all clear for the moment, beginning the animation. At the same time, it sends a message to the survivor client to let them know they've been grabbed.
2) The survivor client, however, has an inbuilt failsafe from P2P days, and upon receiving a grab request will perform this failsafe, which involves checking everyone's positions
again- this time based offtheirclient. The server waits to actually allow the killer the grab while this takes place, leading to the issue of your arm just sticking out into the middle of nowhere, and everything freezing as everything is ran through to see if a grab is okay or not.3) A lot of the time, the survivor client will reject the grab, as on their side the survivor is actually too far away now. The server receives this, and lets the killer client know the failsafe was activated and the grab has been cancelled.
Now, a fourth step occurs, which causes the killer to swing after receiving this request (although this wasn't always the case).
The same was true for Dead Hard without Validation, as all killer clients had a built-in failsafe perfect for P2P and not for Servers."
The comment on "the fourth step" is where the damage state companion is supposed to happen, but sometimes the survivor distance is just too far that the swing ends up actually doing no damage. That's the "iffy part" if you actually get damage compensated.
and here's Peanits comments about killer favored hit detection:
"Currently, killers have the authority over hits. If they hit a survivor on their end, the survivor will get hit on their end (no matter where they are). This is a carryover from the days before dedicated servers where the killer
wasthe server."So back to what I said. Killer hit registration is killer favored. Interruptions are survivor favored. They LITERALLY have a failsafe built into them to reject killer interuptions.
Post edited by RpTheHotrod on1 -
Oh, makes sense then. It's so bright and red it hurts. A good thing I almost never wait long enough to see that.
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Since the killer ping has been displayed, I've noticed that the red ping symbol for killer is often displayed even though the killer has a completely normal ping. My bug report for this was declined, so I have to assume that many players have an enormous packet loss.
This is even worse than high ping, because actions never reach the server and thus any possible server check does not take place.
Is there even a limit to how high the packet loss can be before you get kicked off the server?
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It's in the killers favor for a good reason actually. Validation, or "anti lag", can only favor one side in a case like this with how it works. It favors the killer because, unfortunately, and as difficult as it is to here, it's less detrimental to the survivor to get screwed over by ping/lag than it is the killer. You may disagree with that, because you're only thinkin of yourself - but it's not a 1v1 game. It's a 4v1 game.
And don't forget, validation can have the opposite effect. It can deny the killer a hit they should have gotten just as often.
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I literally said "why would I, a killer with 35ms, not get hits that a killer with 80ms would've gotten" it is detrimental for me and everyone with a good ping, that missed hit could be 2 more minutes of chase
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Even without windows involved, certain loops which can normally be played with good skill and reaction time like the small tables pallet in Gideon can not be played if the killer has a high enough ping, due to the extra distance at which they can hit you. This is because laggy killers take longer to receive updates when a survivor switches direction, and what the killer says goes everywhere except grabs and pallet stuns.
That said, no idea what can be done with this aside from connection-based matchmaking and kicking people with consistently ridiculous connections (300ms+).
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Sorry, but this is plain wrong.
First of all, validation doesn't override hits "just as often" - it only works on Dead Hard and pallet stuns, and even there not as well anymore as it used to; in the open/on window/pallet vaults, there is no validation at all, everything that connects on the killer's screen counts (unless the killer has some outlandish ping of 350+ms). The idea that overruled hits happen just as often as laghits is ludicrous. The ratio is likely a lot closer to something like 1:1000000 than 1:1.
And then, it favouring the killer because it's a 4v1 game makes no sense. Why would you screw over 4 of 5 players in an online multiplayer match due to ping, rather than only 1? Not to mention that the ideal solution would be to simply have the server decide, "screwing over" whoever it is that has the higher ping, instead of the combined pings of both players being to the survivors' detriment. Because contrary to what you said, you don't have to favour one side, you can have the server be the neutral authority and favour whoever player has the lower ping.
There is no "good" reason to favour the killer on hit reg. I think it's mostly still in the game because BHVR didn't want to recode their hit reg system from peer-to-peer days, just too much of a hassle for them and would maybe also put more strain on the servers than they are comfortable paying for or something. But they have given their own alleged reasoning before: they simply think it's worse for killers to not get hits that look like they should connect on their screen than it is for survivors to get hits that look like they shouldn't connect on theirs. So it's plain feelings-based opinion that has them completely bias the hit reg in killer favour. What people are asking for is not even making it favour survivors, but making it fair: Killer client hit reg means survivors suffer from both their own and the killer player's ping; survivor-sided hit reg would mean the killer would suffer from both pings; server-sided hit reg means any player, killer or survivor, only really suffers from their own ping. Currently it's 100-0 killer-favoured, surv-sided would be 0-100 - what is asked is making it server-sided, 50-50.
And yes, that would lead to many more overruled hits/things not connecting despite seeming like they should from the killer's screen, much closer to parity with laghits/things connecting despite seeming like they shouldn't from the survivor's screen, but that is only fair. And the killer player also has means of playing around their ping (and arguably more practical ones than survivors), such as making sure they get a bit closer than they would otherwise need to before they swing if they have a bad ping.
It is possible that BHVR simply think that it's too late to change it, that people have gotten used enough to being screwed over by ping as survivor and that there would be too much of an uproar if they were to make a player's ping negatively affect their ability to land hits now. And that may be true, but it doesn't change the fact that it's completely unfair.
Post edited by zarr on3 -
Most games do actually use a "favor the shooter" model, where if it looked like the person attacking should've hit it generally counts it so the game feels right. But those have also tend to be symmetrical, so each team benefits from it sometimes.
DbD has only one side that attacks, but even then the hit validation is sometimes egregious.
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those games use it with other criterias, the ping differential will never be as high as bhvr allows it to be
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Oh I know that feeling clearly it would hit but no but when I play survivor it's just like haha funny survivor go down two miles away. It sucks more with dead hard I know it's rare to see now but I've had matches where clearly I downed someone but hit validation more registered them using dead hard so I hear them down scream but nope they still standing.
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