New sadoka playstyle

it is issue with sadako's current design. It is funny how people told me in Sadako PTB that this version of Sadako would be skillful and less spammy. Oh, Pikachu, they figure out that the best way to play Sadako is to spam televisions TP because 0 downside or opportunity cost to doing so.

after that, the dev hilarious put cooldown on TV TP condemn spam and than remove it and only later does everyone FINALLY realize what i was talking about. Please make Sadako more skillful and auto-pilot.

if 4 survivor wait on 4 seperate tv's and she tp to one of the TV's, you get anywhere between 4/7 or 5/7 shutdown tv's at the start of the game. i agree that sadako is all about survivoring sucking at the game now. the strategy only works vs bad players.

This playstile extremly boring and only really effective if you are on a double floor map or the survivors have no clue about her power. Against survivors, who understand what to do, you have no power.

Funny enough I just got out of a game with a Sadako like this on Hawkins. We got absolutely destroyed and could barely even retrieve any tapes. One of our teammates never did manage to retrieve one at all and was out of the game at 4 gens left. At that point the game was just over. I don't know if this is OP or not but it was definitely boring to face. I literally never get Sadako when playing survivor so I wasn't even aware this strategy existed. It was a P100 Sadako with 6400 hours so they clearly knew what they were doing. I would assume it's so effective because most people simply don't expect it.

Hard disagree. I don't think us discussing Sadako leads anywhere at this point. You will not convince me due to my thousands of hours of experience I have on her and I will not convince you anytime soon either.

Agree to disagree.

He refers to double floor maps like Midwitch, (Hawkins), Verna map and Gideons, but I don’t agree with him. While it is true, that she is a lot stronger there, she is still weak there and only strong if survivors ignore her power.

They should have never reworked her. It was not necessary at all. She just needs some QOL and a few small buffs. She never needed the 2.0 or 3.0 rework. To be fair nobody at that time asked for her to be completely reworked.

In what way different?

Ring drawing and iri tape needed to change and buffs had to happen to compensate. A rework, especially the one they came up with, was not necessary. Agree.

Just for old times sake: #bringbackSadako

Sadako 2.0 was a spam fest. Survivors could not escape condemned

i am going to stop you right there. Survivor could stop condemn. they stopped condemn by holding tape for long enough to escape. overall, you had about 3 lives or 3 hits before sadako could condemn you. She wasn't able to spam teleports because there was a cooldown to teleporting. teleporting wasn't about teleporting to every TV every second it was on. it was about concise teleporting to break tapes off survivors hand. 3.0 Sadako is about spamming.

Sadako could not interrupt tapes, which deleted any form of strategic gameplay. She got notably stronger, but lost the uniqueness that her strategic gameplay provided.

She had 2 ways to interrupt tapes. teleporting to a television and m1 a survivor to break tape. Her strategical gameplay was memoring survivor's taking tapes out of a TV and triangulating the survivor from getting their tape into a TV. The new Sadako doesn't have strategy because tapes are pure counter with no downside. the strategy is only for survivor. not for the killer.

I am not going listen to anymore non-sense.

I do. I stated my points oon her multiple times.

I am not asking you to state your points. i am asking you follow conversion on @trapners. to summarize his post says that the most effective way to gain condemn stacks is to teleport to televisions repetitively. i am asking you why you believe that this version of Sadako that spams TV teleport clicks for condemn repetitively is more skillful than 2.0 version of sadako that in my opinion required more planning, more decision making for where to teleport to apply pressure and more macro understanding of tv televisions logic(with old iri tape).

my thoughts 2.0 sadako is that the mechanics she had were healthy mechanics but the numerical balance of each of her condemn build-up actions was too high and the TV turning off mechanic made it too difficult for survivors to grab tapes. this led to her power being too reliable at getting condemn kills and survivors not having enough counter-play. the 3.0 version over stretched her kit in other direction where survivor now have too much counter-play, too much control over her power and she lacks play making potencial in her kit. GroßusSchmiedus talks about this in his post where he states that Sadako requires the opponent to not use tapes at all for her to gain condemn kills.

How did someone escape getting condemned, when not holding a tape?

when tape breaks, you grab another tape. as i said, previous version only gave very little leeway for mistakes. the counter-play between both versions is still same. the difference in this one is that survivor has all control and their purpose of taking a tape out of tv is to shutdown tv for 70 second to prevent the teleport spam.

Current sadakos tapes have one form of threat. This being ring drawing. In that regard, I do agree. An addon should not be required. This just leads back to the problems her first iteration had. Therefore my suggestions for changes.

It gives 1 condemn stack for holding tape for 1 whole hook which is quite time investment compare to teleporting spamming tv's. survivors can insert tapes into tv to remove 3 whole stacks….. which is 3x amount that ring drawing generates. the time spent to lock-in stacks will bring survivor to death hook by the time they do anything. add-on has no impact to strategy described @trapners post or Gro's reply.

Condemning WAS about constantly using tp when possible. I think you missed something there.

not necessary. the current iteration is about teleporting when possible because once tv shutdown by survivor grabing a tape, you build no condemn so as long every tv is always closest and you tp to it exactly when it opens. it will keep its shorter cooldown and possibly build condemn.

old iteration was about tactical moving around map and getting m1 hits. It is just that condemn was so aggressively tuned that teleporting to tv's aggressively also build condemn. dev modified that gameplay to this gameplay… of pressing teleport on TV's which any player can do. I find it disheartening.

You will not convince me that sadako 2.0 was more skillfull than any other version. I was there. I played it. No. Just no. The condemn being map wide deleted any form of condemnation and TP - Mindgames mid chase. The effort of the Sadako player to win a match compared to what the survivors had to do was waaay to little. If you call that healthy, then I don't know where your standards are. Please enlighten me.

Did you read all of the suggestions made? You seem to pick what to respond to and ignore everything else that doesn't fit your argument.

@UndeddJesterand I proposed not just one, but multiple solutions to tapes not being a threat and TV spam being as effective as strategic tp.

I WANT the version that is about tactical movement. It's literally what I'm on about the entire time. 2.0 was not that. Not by a long shot.

I find it disheartening how you cannot see the strategic aspect in current sadako returning from her OG version.

I want 1.0 with buffs as well, but 2 addons should not come back the way they where. Also, there are a few good ideas from the reworks that I think are not that bad. Not getting stunned while demanifested and stacks being locked in are good additions if you asked me.

Boy if I had a nickle for every one of these 'New Sadako playstyle' that's actually a complaint about condemned spam I'd be able to buy out the new rift.

Grab tape. Do tapes. Next to no condemned spam.

I agree, that the buffs and Quality of live changes from the reworks were good, but they should have been on 1.0 (lock in condemned, shorter cooldown, pallet stun immunity…)

Though I personally think I would prefer the 3.0 version with a weaker global condemn and a direct teleport bonus because that does mean survivors do still have to interact with tapes, but there is more thinking involved all round.

I’m not a fan of forcing someone to grab tapes, because it removes my teleport and there isn’t really much thinking involved from either side, survivors just have to grab a tape and the killer has to spam the teleport when survivors haven’t turned off TVs in time. What all of this means, she is only good if survivors have no clue what’s going on and ignore condemned.

That is the version I want with some buffs to condemned, her chase, addons…

I <3 you Radiant! This message made my ENTIRE night. #bringbackSadako. 100%

(Thought of you yesterday actually LOL. I was playing pig as a sidenote and got my 1st 4k with her hahaha)

Glad to be of service 🐽

Congrats!!!

Ok. Let's keep it going then.

If you can, look up the dev notes from sadako 3.0. It's literally written there.

If you chase someone into a TV, a mindgame occurs. This is regardless of the survivor knowing about the tv or not. I'd argue, that it's even more of a mindgame because the survivor knows that it's there. They will anticipate that you TP. That's where the mindgame happens. How far will you chase them into it. Will they walk into you because they think you tp'd? That's a mindgame. Both sides anticipate what the other is doing.

Sadako 2.0 eliminated that and 3.0 brought it back.

If you can't see that, then I'm sorry, but your blatantly deflecting reality.

@radiantHero23 Can I bounce an idea off you that came to me while I was at work?

It was just a thought but I don’t want to be executed for it 🤣

ahem…..pulls the 🎙️ mic a bit closer

What IF everytime a survivor got a stack of Condemn it showed Sadako how many they have in total but only for the brief moment the HUD glows “white”

Then it goes back to normal where you can’t see it. 🫢😅

I agree, truly.

I will interject and say 2.0 was much more brainless spammy than 3.0... in regards to the fact that, yes it did have a 10s cooldown, but once you got the ball rolling on 2.0 you always used your TP whenever it was up no matter what, but you can't do that on 3.0 to anywhere near the same effect.

yes you can. if survivors ignore tapes, you manually apply global condemn to the map. it is that counter-play is so blissfully obvious that the power ineffective. it is spammy as before if not more spammy.

As a lower level survivor you were always fighting for tapes once you lost yours; you couldn't grab one from an off TV, and you couldn't insert into an off TV either. If ever a couple of people got injured, you both don't have a tape and are now scrambling to get one.

At lower levels of the game, survivor are ineffective at looping meaning they'll grab a tape and get hit 10 second later. tape barely protects them because they're ineffective at holding the tape. There 7 condemn stacks so in practice, tape being broken is 3 strikes and your out.

Once in this position Sadako now just keeps teleporting, never letting you grab a tape. 10s cooldown is faster than you can run between TVs, and even if you find it, Sadako knows you don't have one and is looking to keep every TV off, so is a good chance you're gonna run straight into her teleporting on you.

this was skill-cieling aspect of old sadako. they did this way because they for some reason changed that you could put tape in any television. I think this aspect of her gameplay could been adjusted where grabing new tape is easier. still, grabbing new tape was not impossible. just more difficult. i think inserting new tape was more the issue meaning that on average 2 or 3 tape breaks was enough condemn.

Now in 2.0, there is the caveat that she needs to hit an m1 to knock tapes out of hands, and she has all the problems she had before… she's an m1 killer... and has no direct chase power. So this setup above makes her very dangerous and oppressive at lower levels... but at high level where players really make it hard to get that m1 hit, she basically has no power.

That is fair because of how sharp reward is for Sadako being successful at her ability.

If you're high in condemn by the time you get a tape, you can't not deliver it... you have to get your condemn down because of gaining condemn if Sadako hits you. However once you give up your tape, the TV you inserted into is now off as well and your codemn is only halved, so you now need another tape to protect you from the global condemn... but you've just turned off 2 TVs for 70s, and Sadako is jumping between the others, so you're still building condemn... you basically need to reach 3 powered TVs uninterrupted to deal with high condemn. If 2 players are in this situation, there simply aren't enough TVs to go around.

the goal was not to resist condemn entirely. the goal was to survive long enough before being condemned. in 2.0 version, due to how televisions worked, inserting a tape to shutdown two tv's was more win-more mechanic for survivor. in practice, if sadako tunnels a survivor's condemn meter, for example say survivor 1 has 5.75 stacks and survivor 2, 3, 4 have 0 or 0.75 stacks. if you allow survivor 1 to insert tape, you can redistribute condemn onto other 3 survivors so that survivor 1 has 2 stacks of condemn while survivor 2,3,4 if they lose tape have 2 stacks.

this is a lot like hook-states where objective of the game for survivor is to distribute hook-state evenly. you don't want 2 survivors 2 hook-states. you want every survivor 1 hook-state so that killer takes longest amount of time to get a 3 hook. same logic with condemn. you don't want 1 survivor with all condemn stacks. that will lead to instant mori very early into the game. you want condemn to be distributed evenly. that is what tape run was about in 2.0

This forces Sadako to try and keep TVs coming on her terms not the survivors. Once survivors have a tape, they cannot grab another one, so this combines together into making Sadako need to stall the game as much as possible to allow her to gain the control of her TVs.

statistically, there is 4x as many survivors as killer. it is always on survivors terms to pick-up tape and never on killer term. for example if all 4 survivor wait for TV's to turn on, suppose you teleport to 1 tv that survivor was near, the 3/4 will take tape out of the TV. So TV teleporting is always survivor terms and never on killer terms. Let's just one survivor takes tape to another television and other two survivors work on generator after grabing a tape. this is 5/7 televisions turned off. 80% of maps televisions are turned off. highly exploitable for SWF and not that hard to execute as solo.

She can teleport at will and can spam teleports, this is especially agregious in small 2 floor maps like the Game and Midwich, but on normal maps the survivors are turning the TVs off or sitting outside a TV radius, so the spam is not achieving anything a lot of the time.

Yes which is arguably only maps where Sadako's power functions properly because even if survivors do turn off many televisions, each television teleport in 18 meter radius is about 1/5th of the map. that's sizable radius that a survivor is likely to get pushed into televisions to build condemn. Otherwise, survivor on regular maps can just ignore the turned on televisions and loop m1 killer with no ability. again, regarding @radiantHero23 comment, this is not mindgame, it is knowledge check for whether survivor understands locations of TV, much of information is shown by auras so it barely knowledge check. It is just that on these maps, even when you know where TV are, they're largely unavoidable which plays into sadako being an effective killer. a killer is not suppose effective on two maps, it suppose effective on all maps.

Her condemn is a slowdown mechanism, in the form survivors have to get rid of their tape in a far off TV in order to be able to grab another one and turn off a TV next to a gen they need. This is what makes Ring Drawing such a good add-on, it gives you something to apply condemn back on survivors for grabbing your tapes.

The tape interaction is faster interaction in the entire game. Part of the survivors objective is to finish generator which spawn near televisions. Survivors can grab tapes while Similatiously going to generator leading to minimal time sink loss. It is hardly time sink.

Here's Paint illustration.

Suppose Sadako spawns in K symbol and teleport to survivor 4 or walks there and finds survivor 4 before he takes tape. Survivor 1 , 2 and 3 can grab tapes. Let's say survivors agree to spilit up and do gens 1 and 2. they can take a tape from tv 1 and 2 and go to top-left generators.they can do generator and grab tapes while turning televisions off which allows him to hit 2 birds with 1 stone.

This is very different from actual slowdown such as Hex:plaything and Hex:penti where suppose a survivor gets hooked, a hex is formed and than survivor has to find hex, cleanse hex which takes 15 seconds, not 1 second and then return back to the gen. they have to make two trips back, spend 15 second cleanse totem, the totem can be re-lit by killer forcing survivor to spend more time on totems. The comparison that Sadako's ability is slowdown is a joke.

This is what makes Ring Drawing such a good add-on, it gives you something to apply condemn back on survivors for grabbing your tapes.

The ring drawing gives a pathetic 1 stack for hooking a survivor with a tape. in many cases, if survivor isn't hooked, they end up cleansing condemn stack from passively doing gens and moving around the map.

She had a reason to hook, and a reason to commit to chase and down. She also had reason to try and push survivors into her TVs and TP to get more condemn, and this was the mind game of baiting/cancelling a demanifest... The survivor even could eat a hit and make a break to deliver their tape if she got greedy (1s insert time). This was all good stuff.

It fixed none of pain points and create same problems that are worse then original 1.0 version of the killer.

3.0 definitely has some remaining pain points, but I think 3.0 is closest to the finished product of any of the iterations thus far. This is why I want the changes I suggest for Sadako 3.0.

I disagree entirely. the ability is the further away in effectiveness than the power has ever been.