Let's talk about gen rush perks combined?
Should the game deliver to the players scenarios where you will 100% lose?
I got rushed at Azarov's in less than 5 minutes. I was carrying 3 gen slow downs, lost my first chase after one hit, because I was setting up the traps for later… and then… BOOM!
I don't know man… It is not right. Check their builds in the file above.
Comments
-
why do people cry so hard when this happens… what do you want them to do?
Their objective is gens and escape . The mechanics make it hard enough that this is realistically the only available method to escape.
Killers have way too much power, too much ego, too much visibility this is the outcome of the killer role creation.
funnily enough usually the ones who cry about survivors doing their objective (which is what happened here) are the same who defend slugging and tunneling and 47 aura perks and every other benefit they have13 -
I will just shamelessly copy and paste my reply from another thread, because I spend way too long to type that one down:
I was a killer main during that time, when survivors where at their strongest and at times I asked myself why I was subjecting myself to this selfimposed torture? DH for distance, 4 DS to eat through, easy 3-4 fast selfheals out of any medkit, sometimes even midchase on the other side of a dropped pallet — it was truely madness! And still people defended DH all the time, claiming that it was a fair and fun perk and killers were just bad and had skill issues for not anticipating it and for struggling and that "good killers can still get 12 hooks without camping or tunneling". In this regard the game was always the same.
Then 6.1 happened and pulled a GIANT rug from under the collective survivor population, exposing how many were huddling under their multi-layered safety net of second chances. The first 2 or even 3 days of post-6.1 were like the shock and awe after a big catastrophy: everyone was running around in a stupor, it felt like everyone had forgotten how to loop (because most never learned how to do so in the first place), no one touched gens (beause the +10s meant that it was pointless to even start) and the game felt like a true "all you can kill" buffet, with survivors offering basically no resistance at all and the killers abusing this mercilessly, tunneling and camping and getting 4Ks at 4 or 5 gens every game, playing with 4 regression perks and never taking them off.
I remember how bad I felt during some of this games with the game being unsalvagable even if I let the same survivor multiple times go instead of killing them off. I tried my hand at survivor myself at that time and I got killed so many times after I personally finished 3 or even 4 gens from start to finish. It was really a drunken stupor that kept survivors from even touching gens, it seemed.
But once this shock and stupor faded, most survivors got their stuff together and stroke back with a vengeance! Backed against the wall, most survivors learned "okay, I can't fool around all game like before, I need to contribute" and "working on this gen together feels nice - but I think I will leave you and work on that gen over there … no, not the next, I will skip that and work on the next after that one, as to not 3-gens ourselfes".
This time lead to the great efficiency boom on the survivor side: splitting up, being somewhat mindful of what gens you were tackling, prioritising main building gens, and at least working on gens - all of this became a staple and all of the sudden the survivors were back in action and gens started flying off the shelves as if they were on clearance.
The Eruption and Overbrine meta gave the thing a small bumb, but after that was cleared, along with timewasters such as CoH, the survivor population as a whole was as lean and mean as they get and knew that they had one objective and one objective only: slam gens! Gens before friends!
Somewhere along this times the killer population, while undoubtedly stronger then before, feld the change on the wind and 4 regression and camping and tunneling became more and more prevalent. Over the course of the following year most regression perks were nerfed more and more into being unviable, Eruption get hit so hard that I don't even know what it does anymore (just kidding, but I deam it unviable), and camping got shut down with the somewhat effective somewhat failed Anti Facecamping Feature. It does what it said on the lid, ie proper facecamping was impossible now, but real camping was still possible, if the killer was a little bit mindful of their actions.
Still, with camping being shut down and "3 gens pop first chase" killers were funneled down the only road that offered success and redemtion from the constant harressment of the survivors on all sides: Tunneling. The strengthening of OtR and later DS, helped a little bit, but the loss of Haemorraging and Mangled full power also also breed it into killers that to stand a chance, they got to turn this game 3v1 FAST and HARD!
So, this is where we are standing now: both sides experienced tremendous ups and downs and both sides tools of trade have been changed and taken away and reluctantly been given back over the last two years, that all the fat is trimmed off and both sides are as lean and as mean killing/genrepairing-surviving machines, as they have ever been - and they need to against the opposition they expect. So when MMR throws them a "casual" of either side, they just eat them for breakfast and ask for more. And thats why DBD can never be a party game anymore, it totally and irrevocably lost its playfulness and innocence and you can't convince me otherwise. There might be short glimps of its former party DNA here and there, when both sides meme around during events, but for the most, the game has been cooked down to be as efficient in its respective roles as it has ever been.
4 -
Yeah it kind of sucks signing up for a match expecting the survivors to take 450s of time to repair gens and they manage to slam it out in ~300s worth of gen time
I mean just off toolboxes alone
17.3s saved
19.5s saved
23.6s saved
23.6s saved
84s saved off of just toolboxes
Now assuming people actually put their perks to full use
17.3s of time saved from the toolbox, once hyperfocus ramps up its the equivalent of 129% gen speed + 10% from overzealous + 6% from deja vu, even afterwards they would be repairing at the equivalent of 145% gen speed
19.5s from the toolbox 25% more from streetwise so ~24.3s counting a second use from built to last - the time spent in a locker to recharge it it totals ~36.6s and another 6% from deja vu for 106% after all that
23.6s saved and potentially repairing at 115% speed after
23.6s saved and potentially repairing at 106% / 98.6% / 88.2% / 74.8% speed after (which is still higher than the 90% / 74.2% / 58% without prove thyself
so to recap, (17.3s + 36.6s + 23.6s + 23.6s) = 101.1s saved (just from toolboxes) and then 145% / 106% / 115% / 106% speed during and after, for arguments sake im just gonna average it so about 118% speed for the rest 350/1.18 = 296s. So grand total about ~300s of charges taken to repair the gens
Fun game, you can't really prep for ~150% gen speed for a whole match especially not as a low tier killer
5 -
How do I get that level of gen speeds in my game?
2 -
Step 1: Have friends (I fail at this part)
Step 2: Stack a bunch of gen speed stuff
6 -
Just 5 min. Seen lower numbers…
5min matches are not required to escape in dbd. This is taking it too far.
What are they supposed to do? Gens. Do they have to do them with toolboxes, bnps and dedicated rush builds, optimizing hook states, staying injured and sometimes leaving people on hook just to do them as fast as possible. No. Absolutely not.
If both sides try to not make the game miserable for the other side, then matches are usually pretty fun.
Also, on a side note: Killers have too much ego = get rushed??? I don't even know where to start with that comment.
2 -
Gens before friends.
2 -
I can sympathize, however it is the nature of asymmetric games that there is gonna be unbalanced and unfun stuff. Had you met their gen speed perks with a slugging build I'm sure both sides would've had a great time /s
1 -
This appears to be impacted by MMR. If you try to get better and either survive or sacrifice more, you'll gradually get harder games. But if you just chill out, you'll get more casual games on average.
I've seen this myself as killer. If I decide to take it easy, after some time I'll stop seeing so many swfs and chases get easier, but if I try hard all the time, I'll get teams where everyone can loop hard and they're splitting up on gens etc.
As survivor I see the effect I described less, presumably because I always try to do well for the other survivor players in the game.
I do think you're right that both skill and the existing meta have possibly the biggest impact though :D
3 -
Deadly wrong. I never use tunnel because, with high MMR, most survivors bring a lot of second-move advantages. Also, I use a lot of perks that encourage me to use hooks on different survivors. You've clearly missed the point of my post: to make matches fair for both sides.
1 -
You got hostile real fast. It wasn’t warranted.
0 -
Can you imagine if every match was like that? Every team using this perks. I doudbt you wouldn't agree with me. You don't agree with me because obviously this kinda match is rare.
What I'm trying to say is that this possibility (of combining so many speed gens stuff) shouldn't even exist, imagine a perk that could cause insta 6 hooks stages in favour to the killer in a few seconds. Isn't hooks the objective of the killer? Yes it is.
But clearly for me, there are so many better ways to reach the goals for both sides in this game than doing this. Is not even fun or challenging in terms of gameplay.
It's not a matter of ego, it's a matter of both sides having chance to win.
0 -
your a trapper versus a team that genrushes. You prioritized traps. They prioritized gens. Your gen regression perks are only relevant if you yourself make them, or else the survivors will obviously work on a different generator until its unblocked.
This is honestly just cause and effect..you cant just leave every chase trying to set your traps up and expect survivors to sit around bamboozled at the blocked generators
3 -
They "cry" because they don't get to do anything, especially as a set-up killer. It's following survivors through a pallet breaking simulator, get a down or 2, and then all the gens are done because their time to complete is too quick. Killer matches should never end that quick.
You're making a blanket statement that all killers have too much power. What are Freddy or Ghost Face supposed to do? What is a killer with random meme perks supposed to do? If the "strong" killers have to slug to compete, they definitely need to do that to compete. Aura perks don't even do anything for you if the survivors know how to loop, because with good survivors it's like, "Oh, you see me? Cool. Now chase me til Entity Blocker/Bloodlust anyway." Survivors who can't handle being found, simply being found? Need to take a hike. We shouldn't be balancing around that nonsense, even if you want it that way.
2 -
That's the anti-killer brainwashing on display, and the projection. The killers are at fault no matter what, and we can call them trash at the game without even detailing what we're talking about. But if the killer details how they're not at fault, because the math of the game literally says so, they're just trash and complaining. There's zero self-reflection or awareness.
3 -
See, when presented with the literal math of the game here, nobody says anything. They know they're wrong in their assertion that the game is killed sided. They just ignore and move on. Everybody knows the theoretical math isn't exactly what happens in a match, but if you undercut the time killers are expected to complete their objective by a whole bunch, it still doesn't come close.
2 -
"anti-killer brainwashing"
Dude, it is not that serious…
3 -
A) you aren't going up against a full gen rush squad that often. People bring medkits or flashlights as well and aren't using those on gens.
B) the official stats have that one survivor is in chase an average of about 1 minute per match. So the killer has about 4 minutes on average of chase time, while winning at least 60% or more of their games. Seems like, if each side is trying to "rush the objective", killers still have the upper hand.
1 -
Usually is how a Trapper play, set the traps and then go for hunt. How would I know that I would go against 4 survivors with max gen speed builts combined?
0 -
A )
The time medkits save and flashlights buy are comparable to increased gen repair speeds
Brown medkit heals in 24s saving 8s from not taking 16s from 2 different survivors
Brown toolbox saves 5.33s
Flashlight is more complicated but a single flashlight save can definitely save more than 5s since thats longer than the pick up and stun animation time
B )
Killer doesn't only spend in chase, the time in chase doesn't account for downtime finding a survivor at the start of a match, time spent picking up and hooking a survivor, time spent moving to the next survivor or objective to start another chase. Catching up to survivors who run in advance, only "average time spent in chase per survivor per match"
If you add the extra time to it at a minimum, 3s to pick up and 2s to hook, thats another usable 40s every match not even counting travel time to hook, this are surface level numbers that average out after 1000's of matches you can't only analyze them in a void because thats not how a regular match works.
0 -
The game on an low and average level is killer sided. On average killers will go against underprepared or bad survivors. But at a high level with all factors being equal, unless its specifically nurse or blight, survivors can and will run circles around killers using their best items because the potential is very high. I mean just look at hyperfocus, in a vacuum with no other perks, if you can hit the skillchecks the perk will average a 28% repair speed increase after it ramps up all the way. For one perk slot.
Survivors have massive potential but often don't utilize it and its basically free games if they do. But since people are more used to the average of what they experience killers are the dominant ones.
0 -
Very interesting, when the survivors all bring their strongest equipment, the gens take 300 seconds. Pray tell, how well do you think that stacks up against the strongest killer and their resources?
0 -
I'll answer this one for you - the killer wins with 1 gen remaining.
0
