What's the point in playing Spirit when Dracula exists ?
Like seriously, Dracula's Bat form is essentially a Spirit's phasing with unlimited duration which bypasses vaults and dropped vaults (and can even block them with an add-on) and even if you somehow screw up with that you're still a 115% speed killer with 2 other anti loop abilities (or you can just use the bats again right after cause the cooldown is stupid quick it might as well not exist).
Meanwhile Spirit's a 110% killer who has no other abilities if she screw up her phasing which is super easy now with her directional audio phase and Iron Will being back in the meta, if survivors just reach a strong window or God pallet while Spirit's phasing girl is cooked, also she's literally unplayable against decent teams without the green power cooldown add-on, being stuck as a powerless 110% speed killer for 15 seconds is way too long against survivors that are efficient on gens. Also she has virtually no map mobility/pressure anymore cause all of her add-ons that were giving her good mobility were nerfed into ground while Dracula just gets good mobility for free in base kit (cause again, unlimited duration on bats and virtually no cooldown on them either) which can be made even better with add-ons.
Seriously it's insane how much I need to sweat while playing Spirit now compared to when I play Dracula and I used to main Spirit, I can't imagine how bad it must be to play her if she isn't your main.
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You can pretty much double tap survivors if you know how to play her. You get a hit normally, start phasing and catch up immediately.
Plus, you can put survivors into nasty 50/50 situations.
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The type of survivors that allow you to hit them as a powerless 110% speed killer would probably be 4k'ed 5 gen'ed by my Dracula.
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She is also faster than Dracula and completely invisible, so survivors have to guess where she is most of the time. With the current loops being bad on average, you can just pop out from whatever side you want. You can see Dracula from a mile away while he is a bat.
The directional audio can be used to bamboozle survivors as well. Plus, have I mentioned the MDR and Dried Cherry Blossom combo? You know, the one which boosts you even more and gives you exact location of survivors?
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I thought bat form had two layers of audio, and the inner layer had directional audio?
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Spirit has better chase, while Dracula has better tracking. Spirit leaves a lot less room for error and sometimes offers straight up no counterplay. Draculas bat is a very strong tool to catch up with survivors mid chase. In my opinion, it's a bit too strong right now, because it negates gaining any distance on him. This makes any form of play you do to gain distance feel irrelevant.
Does not mean, that he's too strong, just unpleasant to play against in that singular aspect.
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She has a mere 5 seconds of power duration, if you just reach a God pallet or window while she's mid phase or juke her with Iron Will she's now stuck as a powerless 110% killer for the next 10-15 seconds, Dracula can regroup much faster if you juke his bats with either his other abilities or even the bats themselves.
Also MDR is another add-on that got nerfed into the ground that now it's suicidal to run it without combo-ing with Dried Cherry Blossom, especially in this IW meta, maybe if they removed the downside it could be worth to run it on its own again.
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Shhhhh, people don't want to hear that Dracula is pretty strong, they want to stay in their "I only try to use wolf pounce/I only try to use hellfire" bubble. They don't want to hear about Medusa's Hair and Traveler's Hat. they don't want to hear that he's a pseudo-hit and run killer that benefits massively from Sloppy Butcher, they don't want to know that Dissolution is one of his better perks because he can force people to stay at tiles due to the threat of bat form's catch up speed (and again, Medusa's Hair). We don't want to talk about how Ultimate Weapon largely makes bat form's blindness when searching for walking survivors irrelevant.
No sir, we have to play him like he's a weaker Pyramid Head/Nemesis without a pallet break/Wesker without spray slowdown and run generic game slowdown perks that don't synergize with his kit every time.
E: All the snark aside, I think Spirit is better out of the box than Dracula. It's comfortable playing Spirit with no/limited/random perks, whereas Dracula almost needs certain perks to enable him and make up for his weaknesses.
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I said the same thing, and Spirit is my 2nd main. Hoenstly tho, I find Dracula is perfect exactly where he is. There's nothing I find over-or-under this-or-that, he is just simply a well-designed and balanced killer. It's been years since a killer has had a kit that felt this good to play to me.
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Spirit fast, Spirit lunge far.
Anyway Bat Form switching is kind of busted at the moment. There's practically nothing you can do against it, especially with Dissolution and Traveler's Hat thrown into the mix.
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Do you think he will get changed to where he can’t switch forms as quick or often?
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Bat form is much less lethal than Spirit. It's not the most efficient thing in the world, but you can negate a lot of bat form by camping a pallet and making distance on the transition to Vampire form. Camping a pallet is a death sentence against a good Spirit at short range. I doubt solo queue will ever adjust to it, because this is the DbD community we're talking about where binary things are advanced calculus, but a lot of bat form's perceived strength would go away if players treated bat form like Spirit and played safer.
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The 110% speed killer with the longer cooldown and no other abilities is 100% not the one with more room of error here. A single missed phase and that's a lot of time wasted already (especially with no cooldown add-ons), a single IW play can lose you an entire chase.
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Don't know what gonna happen or if anything is gonna happen. Wolf and Dracula are no problems at all. It's just the quick in and out of bat - form that seems problematic to me.
Nerfing the other forms seems unnecessary to me.
Spirit is harder to play against due to being invisible to survivors and being able to instantly hit out of phase. That's why she had better chase than Dracula.
Dracula however has a lot less cooldowns. Therefore he a lot longer and faster on people than spirit.
Spirit is stronger than Dracula. If she misses, she gets punished harder. If she doesn't miss, she gets hits and downs faster than Dracula.
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you could say same in reverse if dracula was worse. what is point of playing dracula if he is worse spirit? Dracula is m2 spirit whose two special abilities are hellfire and wolf pounce. Spirit being an m2 killer with m1 attached at the end. in practice spirit can use instant down perks and m1-type perk like sloppy butcher/surge but a lot of these perk are not good or were nerfed. both killer have pro and cons.
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Have not looked at it that way. Good that you bring the m1 and m2 aspect to the table.
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from ptb, i knew that he had big potencial to be strong killer but his initial numbers were too poor to showcase his strengths. Now he is showcasing some of his strengths as a killer. i honestly considering writing as post about dracula to be 4.4 m/s killer where his hellfire ability would be slightly improved and his wolf form pounce be improved but his m/s reduced. scent orbs would no longer grant haste but would be more focused on long range tracking similar to how Oni's blood orbs work.
I think he'd be higher skill-floor and skill-cieling spirit since you'd have to optimize and use his bat correctly to make up for his lower m/s on wolf and vampire form.
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Spirit has the higher skill floor for sure, but that's generally true for many killers released since 2021. Killer skill floors have drastically lowered in recent years with some exceptions. But a high level Spirit will generally be stronger than a high level Dracula IMO.
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Everyone complained that Bat form was crap. So it got buffed. It was already great. Now it's even better.
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It was decent, but not "great". I always felt the teleport was extremely slow for a 32 meters teleport and the teleport speed addon did need to be basekit.
Now it still doesn't reach that addon speed but its close and feels much better.
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This is why i don't play my spirit anymore, i play dracula nowdays. Just more fun and less audio issues.
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Being invisible barely matters cause of her directional phase audio, hitting out instantly of phase is the only thing she has over Dracula but good survivors aware of her power's limitations can easily counter it, she sure as hell don't feel like she can do anything faster than Dracula, not with all of her nerfed add-ons and in this IW and OTR meta.
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Spirit is still relegated as one of the "top 5" killers in the game, sometimes still even being put at the "top 3" just after Nurse and Blight. Im not really sure on the "can easily counter it" thing.
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Also, Iron Will and Off the Record seem to be one of your big arguments against Spirit, but guess what?
Dracula can also get screwed over by the same exact perks.
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So you think she's weaker overall?
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Dracula has 50% bonus audio on footsteps, kind of like a basekit stridor but for steps
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Dracula
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Some people wold rather not pay real money for Dracula and just play spirit who comes with the game instead
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This was probably done before Iron Will was buffed back to 100% cause now I'm seeing even popular streamers dropping her down on the tier list for this exact same reason. Nobody would willingly choose to play Spirit against a full IW squad and considering that IW is currently the 6th most used survivor perk according to nightlight going against such a squad isn't uncommon anymore. So far I can't even remember the last match where at least one survivor didn't have Iron Will.
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I know that. And I heard that there is barely any difference.
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spirit has better control, speed, lethality, and far less counterplay than dracula.
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Spirit is pretty easy to destroy survivors with.
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That does actually sound very interesting, though this would kill him on console.... Both flame pillar and wolf are hard to use on a controller, even at 4.6, and even Bat isn't too easy to use on controller.
Flame Pillar is like trying to use Xeno tail with all the terrain hitting issues, quadruple the wind up time and no ability to drag the hit.
Wolf Pounce is like trying hit a Wesker pounce while trying to do an old Hillbilly curve at same time.
Bat feels like Dredge, where most of the time you're fine, but every now and again you click the wrong window and fly way short/way past where you intended.
I've managed to make most killer work somewhat on console, usually there are one or two add-ons that helps a LOT... but Dracula doesn't have any addons really that help you out on console other than maybe the extra scent cooldown on Wolf... and the one that should (the homing pillars), does absolutely nothing xD
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Glad to see I'm not the only one seeing the reality of these 2 killers as it stands currently (tho probably not for long considering Dracula's upcoming changes in the next month):
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Been seeing this topic alot this week. Imo I still would rather play spirt over Dracula any day of the week. At least with spirit I can hear the survivors while as a dumb bat all I can ever hear is the annoying ass cries of bats in my ears. In fact, I learned just the other day that bat lets you hear survivors footsteps 50% louder and I still find that hard to believe bc I NEVER once have been able to hear anything in bat cries. Either that part of his power is bugged or my hearing is going bad(which I doubt bc I can still hear other things fine in dbd and other games just fine.)
Either way, I think it's kinda a moot point at this point bc we already know he's on the list of killers that getting changes in the next patch in nov, Im pretty sure Bat will get heavily nerfed since that, and Medusa's Hair are the two main complaints I see. Honestly doesn't change much for me if they do nerf him bc I think he is one of the most unfun killers that came out this year. I hate this new trend of giving a killer more than one power but making them all weak. The Lich it was a cool idea at least and the powers was kinda unique but with Dracula, all these powers are just copies of other killer's powers. It's boring and meh to me to have the Dark Lord be just a copycat killer of the other killers we already have.
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You know I just learned about this the other day and I still find that hard to believe. Every time I ever played him and used bat I never once heard footsteps. The only thing I ever hear are the dumb ass smaller bats flying around. Its either isn't making that much of a difference or it bugged.
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So Dracula, in the grand scheme of things, isn't that strong a killer. You'd get better results playing Nurse, Blight, Unknown, even Plague. So if we're saying Spirit is a weaker version of him, can we now agree that Spirit is way overrated, and not that good of a killer? Or are there more mental gymnastics to get through?
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Spirit always has counterplay. Don't buy into the "good headphones magically make her S+, because she can hear extra" argument. People can fake/be deceptive with scratch marks and sound for both of these killers.
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Dried cherry blossom
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So I played the dark lord a lot last night and I can confidently say I still can't hear damn footsteps as the bat. So I still don't believe this 50% louder footstep part of his power is even working or it's just isn't enough to overpower the annoying squeaking of the damn bats. Imo that's one thing spirte has over bat, I can actually hear survivors and not deal with the loud ass bats.
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This take isn't as profound as many think. Spirit and Dracula in bat form are wildly different and not as comparable as people think. Bat form is faster yes, but has noise that obscures survivor audio. It is also completely visible to survivors, so a ton of counterplay is given for free, you don't have to listen at all to counter batform. Yet if you for any reason aren't able to hear directional audio either due to not having a good headset, hearing or anything, Spirit will destroy you.
People say Dracula can "immediately attack out of transformation and has no cooldown so he's stronger" but that's a gross overestimation. He's slowed down for more than a full second before he can even attack or act, his movement is glidey and inaccurate in bat form, his own bat noises overshadows the survivors noises heavily, making it hard to pinpoint their location in a chase. Spirit on the other hand not only can attack immediately after exiting phase, she gets a significant speed boost which she can use to do very unpredictable lunges and turn semi-safe tiles into extremely dangerous 50/50s, while having even tighter and snappier controls than regular movement.
As for cooldown Spirit has a cooldown yes, but she doesn't have to use her entire power and wait for the entire cooldown either. Slap on the yellow movespeed addon or even MDR for speed, and you're way, way more dangerous than Dracula is in bat form since you can catch up faster and get hits without depleting your whole power gauge, so the cooldown isn't that impactful.
What I will give Dracula, is that he's way more approachable and easy to play compared to Spirit. It doesn't take that long to learn how to use bat form for mobility and then follow up with hellfire. It's pretty telling that on nightlight, not that it's the most accurate website, Dracula is both the highest pickrate killers as well as extremely high killrate, which indicates pretty heavily that he's too strong for being so simple.
Dracula is for sure overtuned, but I'm tired of people pretending bat form alone is better than Spirit, that's parroted nonsense. It's batform with its incredible mobility and catchup combined with hellfire that makes him so extremely dangerous when played right, and he's pretty straight forward to play too.
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Agree with you.
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Dracula's def currently stronger than Unknown, especially after they nerfed his best add-ons. Plague only has a claim of being stronger than him when she uses her iri add-ons.
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I honestly don't have much trouble tracking survivors with the bats, especially when they're injured, but I did use to main Spirit before him and maybe that's why. And yeah I already took into account his other 2 powers and even his 115% speed when talking about how he's stronger than Spirit, Dracula doesn't even need to play perfectly with the bats in order to get a hit (either with a M1, Hellfire or even the Wolf) while Spirit for the most part has to play perfectly with her phase cause she has nothing else going for her and her power cooldown is much more punishing than any of Dracula's on a miss.
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Im sorry but, even if i like Scott (he is one of the few dbd streamers i follow on Twitch) that video is full of BS and it seems he just have some personal vendetta against Dracula.
- Spirit is usually still relegated as the better killer. Usually being put in top 5 killers in the game, and sometimes some people even put her at top 3 just after Nurse and Blight, so i dont know where the "Spirit vs Dracula" comparison comes when Spirit is still the better killer and more competitively viable than Dracula.
- All of his arguments started to fall apart when he called "Hellfire" basically stronger ranged attack than Pyramid Head, Nemesis… I mean, cmon, Pyramid Head is still the absolute king of medium-ranged attacks, being able to bypass basically everything and have 0 cooldown. And he said Hellfire was a better ranged attack. No. Just no.
- Also about Hellfire, he said "misses it and doesnt get punished for it". Like, what? It has a basekit 7 seconds cooldown. Pyramid Head or Nemesis miss their ranged attacks and have a "try again" button ready.
When he started saying those thing about Hellfire i knew he just hates Dracula for some reason and wants to rant about him.
Dracula is strong. Not broken or overpowered: just strong. But Scott was just blatantly lying on that video.
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Ty god Ill take dracula,nurse, blight,or billy over spirit anyday. I hate the killer with a burning passion as much as skull mechant.
Am more able to last better in chases with said 4 over spirit lol. Spirit is still more op with no counter play imo even with iron will.
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OMG did he really say hellfire is better than PH's range? I didn't watch the video mainly because I just disagree with his point and as you said I feel Scott just has something out for Dracula. Btw weeks after Dracula came out Scott made a video explaining why he didn't like him and don't see himself playing him much and now here he is saying Dracula is to overpower and is completely invalidates another killer existence. Don't know what change but seems he changed his mind on the dark lord.
Either way yeah I completely disagree with Scott on hellfire. PH range attack is so much better than hellfire. I mean...it can go though all walls something hellfire can't do at all.
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At min 7:00 if you want. He literally says "Hellfire is better than half of the powers that are similar, better than Nemesis tentacle, better than Pyramid Head.." and he even says "..with shorter cooldown". Like WHAT? Dracula has 7s cooldown, Nemesis and Pyramid Head have literally zero cooldown.
Maybe with the cooldown thing he meant the delay where he cannot attack after casting Hellfire. But still, saying that his ranged attack is better than Pyramid Head is still a blatant lie.
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Yeah I love to know what he taking to think Hellfire is better than any of those. I even find xenotail better imo. Maybe it's bc I personally don't like playing him but I don't think Dracula is that super strong. A lot of his kit is just annoying to deal with while playing him I find. Wolf: I hate how you are forced to do to pounces no matter what, Vamp: Hellfire can easily be dodged and you get punished so harshly I feel compared to PH, Nemmy, and Xeno, and Bat well Bat I just find the damn smaller bats cries annoyingly.
Personally, I hope we don't get too many other killers like Dracula and Vecna. I don't find killers with multiple weak powers fun to play or even learn. At least Vecna's powers were kinda new but Dracula's powers are straight up weaker versions of other killer's powers. I think it sad that Dracula the Dark Lord himself is pretty much a jack of all trades and master of none killer.
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I don’t think bat form has any counterplay tbh
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The fact that it cannot see survivors opens up a natural counterplay already.
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