Seriously, what's the point in playing survivior anymore?!

It should be basekit.

The only thing that is the devs fault is issues that haven't been addressed. That 60 kill rate has zip to do with a lot of your original post. Also what do perks and gen times have to do with sweaty players who are tunneling and dancing on you?

They (the devs) didn't make it hell to play is what we're saying. As we've told Autharia above it's the fault of players. The devs didn't tell people to sweat an ocean. The devs didn't tell people to be arses to each other. The devs certainly don't hold loved ones hostage telling them to do this or that (that we know of). All those problems are laid at the players feet. Can the devs do something extreme and chain up every single problem? Maybe, but it's going to cost player agency and probably the life of the game.

Yeah, I fully agree that players should be more aware of how their playstyles affect other players' experiences.

I think the MMR system gives a score to survivors based on how often they escape through the gate (win) through hatch (tie) or get sacrificed (loss), and killers based on how often they get a win (3k or 4k), tie (2k), or loss (0k or 1k). (With killers' scores are centered around a 60% kill rate.) Then the system attempts to match survivors and killers with similar scores into matches, but also prioritizes matchmaking speed. I've heard people argue that this can lead to people needing to rely on tunneling, camping, etc. for wins if they want to stay at their MMR when they've overrelied on those tactics to get to their current MMR. It could be that those players would do those things anyway though :(

I guess the issue with these is that we can fix oppressive or abusive playstyles in two ways. Incentives/disincentives to push people toward fun playstyles can be coded in, or we can try to change the culture around the game. My feeling is that we should always promote a positive gaming culture, but we'll probably always have some players who play in ways that make their opponents' experiences worse than they should be. Then if we can't successfully manage the gaming experience through social incentives, updates to in-game effects will be needed. I suspect we'll generally need an approach incorporating both?

Ah, I see the ambiguity I left in my statement. I was referring to the player's personal score based on previous matches. A person with no experience using Nurse can easily perform poorly :)

Though I guess you know how this works: there's also a player specific effect that carries over to all killers they use. If someone does well with a few killers, their MMR with other killers they use later is raised somewhat under the assumption that they have some basic knowledge of the way the game works. But each killer a person uses is assigned a killer-specific MMR for that specific player.

So the player-specific-killer-specific MMR is used to match a killer player against survivor players.

Can you offer up some advice on how to win consistently as killer without ever camping or tunneling? If not, then I can assume that you are just simply trolling killer players

Your idea is correct, in theory. In practice, however, the SBMM system is completely non-functional, at least in my experience. There is just no consistency whatsoever in the level of players you are matched with/against. As solo q survivor, I'll get matched with brand new players one match, lose, and then get matched with great, experienced players the next. Same thing on the killer side. I'll get matched against a full team of 8,000-hour+ players one match and then total noobs the next.

I'll never be convinced that the SBMM system actually worked until the devs provide us with our MMR scores and show everyone else's in endgame lobbies. That's never going to happen, and I believe the reason is will never happen is because it will reveal that it doesn't actually work.

That's fair. I think DBD's SBMMR system is integrated into an algorithm that prioritizes matchmaking speed too, which probably contributes to a lot of these problems.

For me it tends to make sense to be matched up with players who are more or less talented than I am to get a match in less than five minutes. But that might also be why sometimes I get pretty weird matches.

I know personally, I don't tunnel or camp outside of bully squads, and sometimes I have an easy time, but others, I'll get outplayed. Sounds like a pretty similar experience to yours. I guess one difference is that I don't mind taking an occasional 1k or even 0k. But for me, I think my killer matches tend to balance out as expected with more wins than losses. Survivor though? It's been an absolute mess lately.

I can guarentee this isn't every game or even half your games mate. Before deciding that this game is nothing but toxic record a good 20 games and see exactly how many are that bad. you will be shocked at how few have that level of toxicity.
The other thing is if you are feeling this way its the perfect time to take a step back from the game

So, in Little League, do they teach students to "go easy on the other team to avoid making them feel bad" just because it's not pro sports? Just because it’s a 1v4 doesn’t mean the single player has to hold back. It’s not the killer's responsibility to ensure a fun experience for the survivors. The killer isn’t the caretaker or parent of the survivors—they’re also just regular players trying to enjoy the game.

If you’re going to bring up the idea of a “fun experience for all players,” then survivors would also need to consider the killer's “fun experience” by evenly repairing all seven generators without trying to t-bag or flashlight-stun.

And as for so-called "cheap tactics," the game’s system doesn’t prohibit any of them. Are you saying tunneling should result in a ban? Slugging? Generators being repaired quickly? None of these claims make sense. In strategy, there’s no such thing as "dirty" or "clean" tactics.

Thing is most tournaments (AKA esports style) for DBD on a quick search list no camping, slugging (Most being more the 2 at once without hooking) and some tunneling in their rule sets, on top of wasting time when a game is clearly over for both sides. So those cheap tactics can only be done in Bog-standard games taht we play in.

We hardly see how Dracs perks are stronger than some of the past things, things that many people keep using at that instead of the newer things. And that's not going into the fact you're able to run non meta and win as either side (survivors need competent teammates but that's again players, not the game). Still on players.

What would you consider new? Whenever the devs have gone into super new territory it's been either applause or riots with little in-between. The last thing we'd say is wholly new would be either Hux or Chucky. We can think of a few new things but we'd bet cold hard blood points that a large vocal group would immediately be against them. If the devs did something drastic but new would you be on board?

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I often find myself frustrated by the frequent arguments on this forum that only the survivor’s enjoyment should be prioritized. I feel it's unfair that killers’ enjoyment often seems secondary simply because they are the “power role,” despite both sides being just players. Since I play about 50:50 as killer and survivor, I believe both roles should be equally fun.

As for "dirty" vs. "clean" tactics, personally, I don’t see tunneling or slugging as “dirty.” While opinions vary, I believe it’s only natural to make the best decisions available in any match. You can’t gauge an opponent’s skill within the first minute, and early moves are incredibly important in this game. So, for a killer to use tactics like tunneling or for survivors to focus on gens is just a natural part of the flow.

In Japanese professional baseball, there’s an unspoken rule that “stealing bases is not allowed when there’s a big lead,” as it’s seen as dirty. Yet, one could argue that always doing one’s best without holding back is a sign of sportsmanship.

This is a challenging issue, and I’m glad to exchange perspectives with others who might feel differently😉

90% of the time when I play soloq survivor i'm mad at my teammates more than the killer

Thanks for your thoughts! 😊

Personally, I don’t see tunneling, camping (or even fast gens and slugging) as actions that go against sportsmanship. I often hear arguments that these tactics are unsportsmanlike, but to me, it just sounds like using “sportsmanship” as a shield to ask the other side to go easy. I also don’t see an issue with these tactics leading to an increase in internal MMR—can you really call a rank earned by holding back a true reflection of skill?

To me, unsportsmanlike behavior would be things like trash-talking with an "ez" after the match or taunting a slugged survivor with inappropriate gestures.

with pleasure actually

as soon as you begin the game if there is a hidden offering on the survivor side just run to the farthest gen and look around because you are likely to find someone

if hatch has spawned and you find it dont instantly close it instead just wait a few seconds and see if the survivor rushes it

when you down a survivor dont always instantly pick up because someone may be around to blind you

if you want any more tips then just ask because im not trolling on this im genuine

None of these are necessarily bad advice, but I think they were referring more to how to deal with the strongest issues that killers can have at high level, things like countering comms, lose/lose scenarios (usually caused by perks, sometimes by items) Losing the numbers game re: time efficiency and pressure, specific powers/perks/addons losing their effectiveness considerably vs good and/or coordinated players, etc.

Things like not instantly picking up survivors (unless you know where the rest are, and none are nearby of course) is indeed good advice, but that isn't enough to secure wins in uphill battles. Just situational considerations. The disliked strategies are generally either proactive or reactive to those types of issues.

A good example would be when someone is down under a pallet, while multiple survivors are nearby with flashlights. You can't scare them off and they have two (or more) avenues to punish the pickup, so you have to abandon the pressure and hook and try to bait one of the other survivors into overextending so they can get hit with minimal chase. The lesser evil response in this case would be to switch targets to whoever overextends closest, but the situation itself's only positive outcome is that at least 2 survivors are off gens at the moment (that said, up to 2 ARE on gens, while your time is being wasted.)

Some common lose/lose scenarios have thankfully been removed, such as the old FTP/Buckle Up combo, Boil Over+UB/Exponential/ RPD upstairs library, and the classic old DS/UB, but basically its any situation where you have no "correct" option, you just have to pick one and mitigate as much lost time/pressure it costs you.

coordination can often create these scenarios, things like perk synergies or strong items like syringe and styptic addons. I'm not going to begin to pretend that extreme case examples are the norm in each match, but it can be particularly debilitating when those types of time wastes happen that halt all momentum in those interactions.

This wouldn't be as much of an issue if it accounted for the entire survivor team, but often it only takes 1-2 to create multiple interactions that can create these scenarios. Their effectiveness always depends on the number of remaining survivors, which is part of why strategies like tunneling are the answer. Same as how slugging is the answer in the pickup scenario earlier, camping can be the smart answer if gens aren't being worked on and survivors are hovering to make the save, etc. These strategies aren't necessarily the first choice for every high mmr killer, but you'd be hard pressed to find any that don't need to apply them occasionally as the matches unfold.