Can someone explain the point of the perk Clean Break?
Maybe I read the description wrong so can someone explain. You become broken after healing someone while they are healing you?
If that's it why would I want to do that?
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Nah, it's more like:
Once you have healed another survivor, the perk activates. While the perk is active, you can activate it while getting healed by another survivor to become broken for 60 seconds. If you do not go down in those 60 seconds, you are healed automatically.
So it's basically like an anti-haemorrhagic syringe, except it takes 60 seconds to function. It -can- save as much time as a single heal, but it's risky.
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Wouldn't it be faster to just heal since your already healing?
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time you spend healing is time you're not doing gens
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Depends on context, I think.
Hypothetically you could use the time you would've spent healing on generator repair, which would be a legitimate benefit, since it's a passive heal. It's also got the benefit of (I assume) not being affected by stuff like Mangled, Leverage, Coulrophobia, etc so you can pseudo-counter those while doing gens or other actions.
I haven't gotten onto the PTB yet but if it works the way I assume it does, it'll be super niche but perfectly usable.
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There's also a bit of niche synergy with perks that rely on injury, like Resilience and particularly Desperate Measures.
Ever had Desperate Measures while you're injured, come across another injured survivor, and no matter what, you can't convince them to let you heal them first to max out the DM value? This perk fixes that.
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The only thing I can think off it is counters hit and run playstyles with things like mangled. You can subvert it and go straight back to gen work... I guess.
However seems a little troll-y 😅
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I guess but the 60 broken seem way to much for the effect imo. Especially if the survivor healing you has a healing perk
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Yeah… I don't really see much of a point in using it at 60 seconds. It's like Moment of Glory but somehow worse.
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It makes healing more efficient at the cost of having to survive 60 seconds injured.
I honestly kinda like it.
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This perk and moment of glory are two of the most worthless heal perks in the game may as well not bother. I much rather they both be reworked to something else
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I actually really like the perk, I managed to get use out of it already, basically after healing a survivor, you can instead use the perk to passively heal you and do generators instead of wasting time by letting them finish healing you.
It definitely won’t be meta but I will for sure run it, if it were to ever get a buff, buff the healing timer to maybe 45 seconds.
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i like it as well. high risk high reward. Save u and teammate from wasting 16 seconds healing but u taking a chance.
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Wouldn't running second wind make more sense then this perk? Outside hit and run playstyles (which are pretty rare), if you're getting injured, you're probably getting targeted and downed, and the second wind timer is much shorter.
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Both this and Moment of Glory should be 45 seconds, agreed.
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sounds more reverse second wind. you heal yourself for healing others when someone heals you. it has higher risk than second wind because the timer is 60 second but it can be used unlimited amount of times and doesn't require you to be hooked to heal. i think both perks are pretty worthless but that just my opinion.
i'd rather just use med-kit and any of survivor perks that buff med-kit over bad healing perks.
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It'll be handy when on a gen injured and another survivor runs up. You can activate it then keep going on the gen together.
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This just seems like such a niche scenario with so many downsides and/or better options.
If you haven't gotten to heal someone yet and the survivor coming up isn't injured, you can't use the perk.
If you haven't gotten to heal someone yet and the survivor coming is injured, solidarity might be a better option (I never expected to say 'solidarity would be a better option').
If you have got a heal in, but then got injured, hooked, and unhooked, second wind would be better.
If the survivor coming to heal you has a heal build, then the time savings are considerably less.
Even if you pull this off, if the killer comes along within the 60 seconds and downs you, it might have been better to take the heal.
So you need a scenario where you get a heal, you get injured, you don't get hooked, another survivor comes to you, you activate this, and your next encounter with the killer is long enough for the heal to trigger. So if you hit a killer using an anti-heal hit and run build I guess it would shine.
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"This just seems like such a niche scenario with so many downsides and/or better options"
Yes, this is on par with recent survivor perk trends.
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Spend time healing. Or you spend no time healing and then get an instant heal in 60 seconds.
Is the same logic as Second Wind/Renewal.
You use that time doing something else.
What's more is that these two perks synergise. By healing one survivor, you charge up two instant heals for yourself. Throw on We'll Make It and a decent medkit and you get 3 heals in about 5 seconds; the heal on the survivor you just unhooked, the heal the next time you get unhooked, and another heal the next time someone tries to heal you.
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This just seems like such a niche scenario with so many downsides and/or better options.
When it happens as often as it does to me, doesn't seem all that niche.
I run Second Wind all the time and have survivors running up to me teabagging instead of just joining me on the gen, before they realise I'm broken.
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What's more is that these two perks synergise. By healing one survivor, you charge up two instant heals for yourself. Throw on We'll Make It and a decent medkit and you get 3 heals in about 5 seconds
They only really synergize if you don't keep healing though. So if you get a heal in, hooked, second winded, and then another heal (which if you're running We'll Make It you should be trying for), your right back to having second wind as your first proc.
And if you get targeted first or another survivor gets the heals, you have two dead perks slots.
And this is one of those perks that becomes weaker the more survivors run it as you are now competing for the same thing.
It seems like a massive investment on perks, especially if you bring a medkit, where instead you could just bring a medkit with a syringe and some extra charges, and get two heals on yourself without the need to find someone to heal, and the trade off on time seems more than made up for on the risk of all that time broken where the killer might find you plus you get to use those extra perk slots for something else.
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I think this perk will really only shine in SWF. Coordinating with solo queue will be awful. But in SWF you could not only save time healing but you could also potentially bait the killer into a bad chase. Look at that nice juicy injured survivor. 15 seconds into the chase and the survivor heals. The one thing I'd like to see changed is for an increase to healing speed when healing other survivors. Even if it's just like 15-20%.
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It's a good counter to Back To Hook Bobby. And it's a huge efficiency spike during team heals.
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They only really synergize if you don't keep healing though. So if you get a heal in, hooked, second winded, and then another heal (which if you're running We'll Make It you should be trying for), your right back to having second wind as your first proc.
No... they have different activation requirements. Neither supercedes the other. And if you have to heal someone while the perks already charged so what?
And if you get targeted first or another survivor gets the heals, you have two dead perks slots.
No different to Second Wind, except this isn't limited to only unhooks and can be used after you've been targeted first.
What can I say, after runing Second Wind religiously for months, you learn not to get targeted first. There's always a more reckless survivor, usually carrying a flashlight.
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No... they have different activation requirements. Neither supercedes the other. And if you have to heal someone while the perks already charged so what?
You can only get to full health, there's no super health state, that's what I mean by super cedes. Second Wind is going to be doing the healing, and, even if you have a situation where it doesn't come up but you're running a medkit like in your original scenario, a single styptic would be far superior.
The so what is that it is a wasted slot that could be doing something else.
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Clean Break is really, really strong if you're in a SWF.
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I like the concept but 60 seconds is too long. If it was 30 or so it would be way more worth it, considering it has an activation condition.
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It's already borderline busted at 60. You're supposed to be stealth genning for the 60, and It also activates from finishing a heal. So if you're coordinated, you can just tap someone at a 99 heal to get it activated.
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Sounds like a gen jockey’s counter to Sloppy Butcher.
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This about covers it, but that won't prevent me from yapping a bit myself of course.
Perk is incredibly situational, even Solidarity (an already rather situational perk that like you I have never been a particular proponent of) seems strictly better. And people just overrate the time saving on these heals sometimes. Saving some seconds on heals can be nice, but more often than not what's important with healing is less the time investment and more healing safely without getting interrupted. Less seconds spent healing can help with that, but it won't all that regularly help. A lot of the time and especially when you group up to heal with multiple survivors, you do so at safe, out-of-the-way locations where you regularly won't be interrupted. Sure these perks can then allow for more "risky" reset locations at times, but that's even more situational a proposition. That already puts Solidarity in a niche standing due to its situationalness and not very reliably very valuable effect. Clean Break then doubles down on the "time saving" idea of this, because instead of being healed by another survivor, you passively heal. Only of course this takes 60 seconds instead of the 16 (or 4.8 with Solidarity) it would take for the person you healed to heal you, a lot more time to be found and downed during.
There's also something to be said about the struggle of even getting someone to touch you in this game. Imagine you've healed someone after unhooking them, the killer is approaching, and all you want is for them to quickly touch you so that you may be able to heal passively in the ensuing chase - but starting to heal you obviously being the last thing on that unhooked survivor's mind in that scenario. Even getting to heal someone else in the first place is far from reliable even if they are injured. We have all chased after people while screaming "We'll Make It!" at them. Being self-sufficient is really one of the most important aspects of means of self-healing, with regards to which this perk doubly disappoints.
Being Broken also communicates to the killer that you have the perk, thereby potentially motivating them to commit to trying to down you within those 60 seconds and rob you of perk value. Which by the way is really strange to me: Why if they have wisened up in the case of Moment Of Glory to the fact that losing the perk value alongside its activation investment upon being downed is pretty terrible and made the great change where it will activate again automatically the next time you are in the injured state have they regressed to a "screw you if you die" mindset again with this perk? Moment Of Glory seems strictly better than Clean Break to me, and that's something I didn't think I would say.
I will also echo something I think you've said in another post here, which is that med-kits are just far and away the best means of healing, and if BHVR want to change this they need to bring things able to compete with them. Sure in the odd hit-and-run match having things like Autodidact and/or Solidarity can be really neat, but in most matches a 2-heal med-kit (with the second heal potentially being a Syringe) will be most of the healing you need, and this can obviously be 8 heals between all survivors. I have yet to see a good reason to bring anything but a med-kit for my healing needs, at most bringing Built To Last alongside it if I want more heals for one reason or another. The only times I bring other means of healing is either when I want to use a different item (which isn't that often because only in few builds are other items worth it over med-kits) or in speciality builds like Inner Strength with Head On, or Circle in Boon builds. Some of them do have their unique merits, but most of all of them would require tangible buffs to compete with the king of healing that is "med-kit". Hell, I could envision a complete shift wherein med-kits become much more pointedly about healing others, at most being able to heal oneself 1 time with them (the time-to-heal depending on the type of med-kit), and instead buffing various of these healing perks. I have always thought that Circle enabling self-heals was actually healthy for the game, encouraging people to spend a lot more time running to and from it and resetting, slowing down games but also making them less snowbally, and benefitting solo survivors a lot. I think Circle would be perfectly fine and even healthy for the game if it enabled survivors to heal themselves again, albeit at 32 seconds per self-heal.
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To the point about Solidarity, I'd argue that comparison actually highlights the benefit of a perk like Clean Break, since Solidarity is considerably more restrictive and takes longer overall.
Solidarity requires you to be injured and able to reset with a survivor in order to use it at all, compared to Clean Break that can be charged while healthy and used in situations where the person trying to heal you is themselves healthy. It's a perk you charge ahead of time, giving you more flexibility in how you use it. Not that Solidarity is bad these days with the buffed numbers, but it is more restricted in when you get to use it.
Then, on top of that, the benefit is also stronger on Clean Break. A self heal with Solidarity takes 4.8 seconds (I'm trusting your numbers rather than crunching them myself, ftr) which means that the total time investment is 20.8 seconds, since you also have to heal someone else directly before using it— but you do get two heals from that, to be fair. Even if we only look at the 4.8 second investment, a perk like Clean Break has a 1 second investment, because you only need to tap the button and you're already back in the game, doing gens and getting saves and going on chases and such.
That's why passive-heal perks will, as long as they're balanced properly, always be competitive with medkits. Being able to do anything you want while the heal's happening is inherently far stronger than having to be stuck in place doing the action for almost half a minute— you're able to progress the game with generator repair or altruistic actions, you're much more able to evade the killer and play it safe, and you're even able to go on chases if you're confident. Being ambushed performing the healing action is worse for you than being able to sprint away immediately without losing healing progress.
That's not to say Clean Break is going to be a super appealing meta perk, as it's always simpler to just let the survivor heal you or bring other self-heal tools. People like the simpler tools more than the niche and more complicated tools, that's for sure, but Clean Break has its place and isn't badly designed.
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True and fair enough on being able to "prime" Clean Break as opposed to Solidarity (although the person healing you being healthy is not as clear of a distinction between them, situationally you will also "charge" Solidarity without that survivor being able to top you off, another survivor/you yourself then doing so at another point).
The 4.8 seconds for Solidarity refer to the time needed for the other survivor to finish your heal. It's 70% of a heal (if you fully heal someone else, of course), so that leaves 4.8 charges. Since it's two survivors' time, we have 9.6 seconds spent on this heal, as opposed to yeah, around 2 survivor seconds spent on activating Break. But again, I just don't think handfuls of seconds saved in these already not all that regularly-occurring instances are impactful enough to justify spending the perk slots. The most important thing about healing in my mind is to make sure you can do so safely and reliably, which is why I would take Self-Care + Botany Knowledge or better yet a med-kit + Built To Last over any of these perks any day. Well, not any day, some of them are fairly fun or fulfil unique utility in specific builds, but if I'm trying to win as consistently and reliably as possible I'm definitely on a med-kit.
And this extends into the next point too. Yes, passive healing is great, it is obviously very time efficient and can happen mid-chase, it is less prone to be annulled by getting interrupted and not (as) affected by Mangled or Hemorrhage. But the best means of passively healing is a Syringe. Clean Break is just way too unreliable, both due to its activation condition (heal someone else first) and actuation requirement (someone heals you, long enough that you can press the ability button), and its activation time (60 seconds). The Broken status also doesn't help, as this not only makes it impossible for you to heal by any other means during this time, but also signals to the killer that you will be healthy again at a set time, which they can better plan and play around. If you're already finding yourself healing with someone, I think it would most of the time be more beneficial to have simply healed at that point, or the time saving (versus the risk of not being healthy for the next 60 seconds) at least not worth the slot over other perks.
There's also something to be said about active means of healing allowing one to 99% one's heal, which can be incredibly valuable in numerous ways, and Solidarity interplays with this (hell, the one thing I actually really rather like about Solidarity and Resurgence is that they make med-kits better: even a plain old solitary brown med-kit can give you 3 heals with those perks (well, obviously technically only 2 with Resurgence, unless Shoulder The Burden happens to be in play…)).
I don't think the perk is necessarily badly designed, I just think it isn't good enough even in this healing niche, certainly not for me to ever really use it. I do think its effect being cancelled out when entering the dying state is bad design: again, with Moment Of Glory's recent adjustment they have already implemented a perfect solution to this issue (something similar to which I had also suggested they do for Second Wind in the past and still think it too deserves), where they will activate again automatically once you are back in the injured state. I think that would be perfectly sensible for this perk. I would even go further and decrease the time-to-heal, but that's just me.
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