remove finisher mori please
its absolutely redicilous how many times im getting tunneld and slugged only for the Mori at the end. Its not healthy for the game and some players to be this toxic. Some Killer Players slugg the whole Team only to Mori the last Survivor!
Like wheres the fun to slugg everyone to let them bleed out that happens also a lot!!!
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Slugging has been rampant for a long time now. The finisher mori isn't responsible for it, or even making it worse. BHVR should fix slugging and leave the mori alone.
I think many people need to be honest and admit that the mori just exacerbates the salt from losing. It's not toxic to use a mori, but slugging players to death is. Unless the survivors brought Boil Over and Sabo. Then it's self inflicted misery.
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A lot of people are seeing a significant increase in toxic playstyles (e.g. tunneling, camping, and slugging for 4k) since the time the finisher mori was introduced. And the finisher mori incentivises this behavior by rewarding a 4k with a mori, regardless of the tactics that are being used to get it.
My matches have become stressful lately because I've experienced a significant increase in hard tunneling in my matches recently and I even now expect most killers to run straight to unhooks. It's also not uncommon now for me to see killers intentionally tunnel to get an advantage.
I've even seen some killers repeatedly hit the third survivor on hook because they have the slug nearby and want to get their free mori after they slugged for the 4k. I even thought repeatedly hitting on hook like that was considered bannable harassment by BHVR.
We can say these behaviors may not be impacted by the finisher mori, but there definitely appears to be a correlation between an increase in the rate of these behaviors and the release of that update.
Edit: Now that I look for that statement about hitting on hook on BHVR's webpages again, I don't see it anywhere from them. I remember thinking I saw that in the past. I'd think if someone just stands there hitting you on hook for an entire stage, it could be harassment or something, but maybe not :)
Post edited by smurf on5 -
exactly!!! I know as a Survivor main that slugging and camping is for some killer mains a thing to not lose the game .But since the finisher mori update, its out of control. I play almost everyday and almost every killer plays with the same intention . I had a Ghosti yesterday i thought he would give me hatch only to close it infront of me to mori me on the hatch like why? His answer to my question of why hes being to toxic was „its just a game i should relax or take a break“ its ok i don’t care if i die but i start caring when i start to lose interest in playing my fav game because of toxic ppl!!
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i also think basekit mori should be removed. i've seen a big increase in tunneling and slugging for the mori since the update and i don't think it's good for the game. the amount of toxicity from killers is insane.
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For me every match a killer uses a mori offering they gun for it. Always has been that way. Now they use the offering and get a freebie at the end. It has created many end game excitement things being gone. Such as crawling to the hatch that spawned near by as the killer left you slugged. Not anymore they stand on top of you waiting for the last person to die to mori you. Two people left they slug one find the other kill them and come back for a free mori. There is no need for a hatch at all anymore. Not to mention the action button to enter it if you are slugged is defective. I have to line up just right to even get into it. Sometimes those seconds are much needed. I have never got hatch very often impossible to find before the killer does but when I have it is epic. No more. We used to be excited for end game the rush of who makes it who doesn't, how will we save them and so on. Not any more killers just want that free mori. So we have mini moris's (love pyramid head forcing you to wiggle out on top of his wire just to get one) tombstone (loves those matches killer doesn't even play just rushes for mori's) plus the others they all do the same to force you into mori status. You can try and avoid it but sometimes if that is their goal you just can't, mori offerings, and a freebie at the end. Since the update matches have been awful. Dont get me wrong I know not every killer plays this way, just what I get delt I guess. I keep playing hoping for better matches or to learn more to defend myself I guess. I also think the camping mechanism should include the knights guards camping on hook, triangles, traps etc. camping me on hook. The only reason you even put them there is to make sure you get the person saving or to tunnel out the person on hook. That is also not playing the game it is just camping from a distance. I agree with some above the toxicity has been insane since the update. If you make any attempt to save someone from being hooked all get slugged one with longest bleed line gets moried. I know I know it is a strategy well so is sabotaging. Why be like that when we are doing what we are supposed to, you know survive. Nope we get called toxic and slugged. Play it out you win or you lose but I am sure you will make sure to leave one of us stuck for that free unearned mori! That is about all I have seen anyway.
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I think what you are seeing is what happens when the community gets arsey. Killers were also spamming the mori reset glitch too. It's not the mori that's the issue. I also don't think that killers who would have given hatch before the update, are suddenly not doing it because they want that mori. Most killers use it to save time, not because they care about it.
The community needs to fix other problems. Removing the mori wouldn't change much. The change would likely inspire more hostility, resulting in more toxicity.
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removing the Mori WOULD help make it better. The ones who agree outway the ones who think it’s not an issue.
I am all for removing it. Playing lately has been unfun and stressful. Constant slugging. It’s almost to the point that I thank the few killers who don’t do it. Even when I die. Because slugging is toxic.
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How about no?
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how about yes?
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I'm 100% on board with removing it. It's gotten to the point I run unbreakable on every build. EVERY killer slugs when there's only two survivors left. Once he hits the other survivor, I stand myself up, syringe and find hatch. And that's after hard tunnelling and camping everyone else out. It needs. To be. REMOVED. ASAP.
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They'll realize Killers don't spend money in the store and Visceral Rarity cosmetics will be a huge waste of resources then reverse Finisher Mori.
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Can you link me to where the devs have said that repeatedly hitting people on hook is a bannable offense? I've run across several killers who thought that speeds up the hook timer and I think it would be weird to ban them.
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That's fair. I remember reading it awhile ago. I'll see if I can find it and link here.
Edit: I searched for ten minutes or so and can't find it now. It's possible that I saw it previously described as a factor that could prove griefing or harassment.
But that would have to be pretty extreme. So I doubt that part of my original statement is correct. I'm going to edit that to say "I thought it was bannable harassment."
It likely is something that could be used to prove griefing or harassment if recorded. Like if someone targets you specifically in multiple games, a recording showing them hitting you on hook for an entire hook stage in multiple matches while not targeting other players might be used for that. I did think I read it on some BHVR webpage a while ago though, so I'm a little surprised :|
Post edited by smurf on1 -
The Mori isn't the issue, slugging or tunneling for it is. Fix the real issue.
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The finisher mori seriously is just having people more waste time not hooking to see the same stale animations over and over and I wish killers stop with the boil over sabo squad excuse.
Hooks respawn and I tend to not get sabo squad ever when I play killer, last time I got a sabo squad was like 6 so month ago when the tool boxes got sabo buff.
Waiting on the third person on hook to die only to mori forth when literally there a hook close by to hook fourth just wastes more time. As if maps like dead dawng dont have 6 hooks right upon each other. Amount of mori offerings too seem to have sky rocket too.
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Ghostfaces and Legions tend to love brining mori offerings the most and tunnel for it hard.
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People love to toss the "toxic playstyle" constantly. WHY do you think tunneling, camping hook and sluggin exists?
Do you think MOST killers are just wanting to ruin your game? NO. People like to win, thats the whole point. The whole idea of the game is to be competitive and surviving a match feels like an acomplishment, just as beating a group of good survivors is for killers.
The thing is that with whats POSSIBLE to do, with the current perks and add ons and items survivor have, it´s not easy for killers to win matches. WHEN survivors are playing to win.
Strategies come from EXPERIENCE playing the game. Survivors and killers are getting better, pushing the boundries of what is possible to do.
Right now, what you call TOXIC, are strategies to WIN, of course, I do not agree it should be encouraged or hell, even allowed, fine, BUT, you also have to ask WHY. If they were to completly eliminate something killers are doing to counter current meta game of survivors, you also have to check the balance of things that are possible with a group of GOOD survivors playing to win.
Finisher Mori is not the reason why killers slug at the end, they slug so the fourth cant escape because they want to get the BEST result possible, which is: 4K.
Just as why 3 survivors escaping a trial could just leave a fourth guy behind to assure they will win, but sometimes they come back and try to go for the 4 people escape. The BEST result they can obtain.
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Can someone explain to me what exactly the finisher mori has to do with these things?
Killers were doing that anyway because they wanted the 4k. I really don't see why everyone would be so hellbent on seeing the mori play out.
It's kind of nice for the first 1 or 2 games but after that, it really is nothing special anymore. Just a convenient way to end the match when it's over anyway.
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While OP is rather...blunt in his statement, let's elaborate. People don't mind the Mori per-say. Before this, Mori animations were liked (or at least tolerated) but now, with them happening in most matches, it got old really quick and now they're merely seen as "additional reason why the game won't end" instead of a cool cutscene that didn't happen often.
By hiding a Mori animation behind a 4k, it automatically incentivizes people to slug for the 4k...and we all know how fun and riveting it is. It's true that it happened before already, the Finisher Mori didn't create it, but the sheer number of threads talking about it since the Finisher Mori was introduced speaks for themselves of how it got worse.
We already hear it everywhere, Killers slugging the last 2 and then waiting for one to die (either by bleedout or simply standing over the last slug after hooking the 3rd, wasting minutes instead of ending the game in seconds even when there's hooks within spitting distance) just to Mori the last, is only making people hate those animations due to them encouraging such endgames and making the game even less casual/newcomer-friendly than it already is (as newcomers/low-mmr players will see their games end in a 4k more often).
There's a reason why the dreadful basekit Unbreakable was attempted alongside the previous Finisher Mori PTB: otherwise almost every single games would just end in a slugfest. Hell, during that PTB there were more bleedout slugfest games than normal even though people could get up because Killer players wanted that animation after killing the first 2 Survivors.
[Quite frankly, it wouldn't be that hard to keep the Finisher Mori but make it into something that rewards those that don't slug for the 4k and win the Hatch race without removing 4k slugging for those that merely want to secure the win: The Finisher Mori only becomes available if the last Survivor is on their feet (healthy or injured or Plot-Twisting, that last one is to prevent from trying to purposefully deny the Mori by using the perk right before the other dies) when the second-to-last Survivor dies by sacrifice, by unique Mori (NOT by bleedout) or escapes. Succeeding would grant extra BP for the extra steps.]
(There's threads about similar solutions)
The goal isn't to remove things, it's to make things healthier. Slugging for the 4k was already a common thing, but it wasn't as prevalent and Mori animations weren't seen as a chore. This same mindset applies to countless aspects of the game but this one is currently making a big impact but could be turned into something good.
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It’s rewarding killing someone at the end after a tough match. Dude removing it won’t change a thing, if the killer is going for the win, he will go for the best possible result and wont let anything go chance.
It’s not like you don’t have options if they leave the other survivor slugged, he is bleeding out because you are not doing anything about it. There’s plenty of perks, strategies and chances you can pull if he is slugging. The thing is people give up when there are 2 survivors remaining, but technically, is possible to even then pressure the killer.
People have a tough time sympathizing with the other side, how come if I have to Mori someone, I have to compromise my offering? That’s why it was implemented, the mentality of a competitive match is exactly the same (don’t mean pros, only both sides playing to win to their best capacity). If a killer can assure a 4K, he will try.Examples: 1 gen remaining, 2 survivors alive, the killer slugs one and camps him.
The other survivor has options. He can heal up and try to sneaky get his partner up.
He can pressure the last gen, complete it and force the 3k or the hook or aim to open door.
The slugged survivor might have unbreakable or adrenaline, both giving the chance to turn that 4K into a 2 man escape.
I mean there’s plenty of escenarios. Removing the final Mori makes nothing to change that or improve anything, either you die on hook or let them kill in a fun way.
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I get that but I honestly do not see why killers that didn't slug for the 4k before would do so now. Are people really that desperate for the animation?
I can't say I have noticed an increase in slugging as a survivor either (although to be fair, I haven't played a whole lot lately). It just feels like everyone that used to slug still does so and the mori is wrongly considered an explanation as to why it happens.
@UndeddJester recently suggested changing the mori to only be available on the 3rd survivor, if the 4th is still up to disincentivise slugging. If people actually care that much about the mori, it would definitely help and if they don't, it won't do any harm.
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Just to absolve myself and not take all credit, Skillfulstone did have the same idea before me, but I didn't see it, and I think it got lost in the PTB forums I think xD
Though I am in agreement, I haven't really seen a huge uptick in slugging for the 4k... in regards to the fact that being slugged for the 4k was the status quo for me anyway...😅
I almost never got given hatch, and often never got to play the hatch or door gamble... it's why I rarely ran Sole Survivor, cause it very rarely did anything xD
However I do think the mori does highlight it more cause killer soften stand over you waiting for the survivor to die.... so I think people get upset by it more.... so I think that tweak would be great 😁
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I think some people see the finisher mori as an indication that they had a good match and did a good job, and feel rewarded by it. I'll say that in the time since the finisher mori released, I have seen almost zero instances of killers giving hatch or gate to the last survivor.
And the incidence rate of toxic playstyles (e.g. tunneling and camping) in addition to slugging for 4k became so prominent that I was only playing every few days for some time. Though I did have a couple days last week where I saw less of it, so there were a few bright spots.
But back to the point, there are a lot of people who when they play killer, want to feel like they did a good job. If the reports people are making here are true about increased slugging for 4k, the finisher mori may be making some players feel they've done better if they get a 4k and even making them think that's what they should do. Honestly, from my perspective, there are days when I want to play as survivor and then think about the game I expect to experience; I realize I'll probably have matches where killers tunnel and camp to get easy wins, slug for 4k, and I just decide it's not worth it. The likelihood of having my match end in a slug for 4k kind of feels like it may have tipped the scales into me not really enjoying the game as much as I used to. I'm still trying though :/
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Slugging for 4k makes the last kill into easy mode. I only slug for 4k against bully squads since I don't think they should have any reward for their playstyles. But I do know firsthand how much easier it makes it to get a 4k. Having said that, against groups that aren't going out of their way to harass me, I'll often give the last survivor hatch or the gate.
Hatch is meant to give the last survivor a fighting chance at an escape, and to prevent a long drawn out hunt at the endgame. Slugging for 4k instead just gives the killer an easy 4k and sometimes creates a minutes-long hide and seek game that's almost hopeless for the remaining survivors. Slugging for 4k isn't about getting the best result possible, it's about making it easier for the person playing killer to get a last kill. If they want a 4k, they can still do hatch race, which the killer should be winning most of the time.
But now we have the finisher mori providing an incentive to get a 4k without any regard for the methods used to get it. So it's encouraging the exact scenarios hatch is meant to prevent.
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I have something to add to this another reason this stupid finisher mori should be gone today vs this garbage onryu me dwight and david(laura died) david got down put in basement, I had dwight heal me and I manage to get david out of the basement ofc(she waits out bt) downing david again. dwight and I was able to distract just long by taking 2 body block hits enough to possibly have david wiggle off as she was not going to make it to the hook so I assume he was about 90%. Sadly Dwight and I got forced out because we both was injured.
Sadly though david gets MORIED because you know this stupid finisher mori. Now in that instance IF there was no finisher mori either david would get to crawl out the gate or wiggle off if he was picked up again because he came into my stream and said he was 95% wiggled. Like seriously remove it.
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