Skull merchant with the lowest pick rate and kill rate oop-
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you can play vs a pig and Freddy normally dude
Yes knight has to aim to put his guards on the right path. (Lol) same with artist
Hag and trapper are trap based killers your supposed to get rid of their traps…that’s kind of their thing, would have assumed a “high mmr” “expert killer” like yourself would know that.
The community has spoken, the devs have taken action and whats done is done. Wait for her rework. There is no point in continuing to argue that “she was fine it was just survivors fault” when that’s in the past. And she confirmed to get a rework. Until then enjoy the other 30 something killers we have on the roster unless you think they are all weak (which you probably do)
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yeah most of the players that said she was very weak vs good survivors (which is always the lazy argument they like to use the most) are the same people that say she was fine. Which is it lmao
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Yeah, but Freddy’s been on the “hook of shame” for so long now.
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Just like overwatch the proper thing to do is make killers with problematic designs weaker than the rest until they get properly reworked
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Where do these stats come from?
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Hello, resident Freddy Main®! I'd like to converse with you a bit about your comment!
Specifically, "People only DCed because of their hatred for a character that no longer existed."
Do you think it is wrong of anyone scorned by the release of SM to continue to dislike/hate even if she is nerfed/buffed/whatever state she is in?
I know everyone will have their opinion, but looking at what her release fundamentally did to the game, as well as BHVR's utter failure to foresee ANYTHING that came… It's not something I myself can forgive. At least not yet.
Just wanted your thoughts on this way of thinking, and if you believe it to be 'wrong' or something akin to that. Thank you!
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Hello friend! Good to see you here.
Do you think it is wrong of anyone scorned by the release of SM to continue to dislike/hate even if she is nerfed/buffed/whatever state she is in?
Dislike her? No, that isn't wrong. I still dislike Legion because of their release, which honestly was way worse than Skull Merchant, and it has been years. Some people will never like certain characters and that is okay.
Disconnecting or suicide on hook every time you get a Skull Merchant? Yes, that is wrong. I don't give up immediately every time I get a Legion, because the problem has been fixed. They may not be fun, but they are no longer a fundamentally flawed character. Same with Skull Merchant.
You can't choose the killers you go against.
Years, my friend. Years.
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I'd say the same for Freddy, Deathslinger, Wraith, Pinhead, etc.
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Freddy is an exception because I think something needed to be done, his post-rework power was really unhealthy for the game.
But what they did failed to fix his issue of being a boring killer who is missing his identity, and he was left to rot for years.
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Thank you. :)
Dislike, I agree with your view. But you went right to specific actions, not a 'hate' or continued 'disgust' with how she can be remembered.I was wondering if you had an issue with hookicides/DC's being more frequent on her specifically, or if it was the whole view of viewing her so negatively. I believe you simply dislike the hookicides and DCs that are much more common against Le SM.
If wrong, please correct. Otherwise, ty for answering! #makefreddygreatagain
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Honestly friend, I like Skull Merchant, but I can understand the people who don't. Not every character is for everyone, many of them will have their own mains and people who hate them.
I feel nothing but disdain for Wesker in DBD, but many people like him and that is okay.
As you've said, I don't like how players still DC and suicide on hook against her, when it isn't needed. I've had many fun trials against SM when people decided to stick around and actually play the game.
Post edited by GeneralV on2 -
She was never nerfed cause of having too high kill rates. Nobody ever said such things. Shes super annoying to play against, at all times. Buffing her makes no sense before they completely remove her from the game - I mean, rework her.
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They said word for word on their discord stream that 72% is too high. + The patch notes said they intended to reduce her strength which strength has little correlation to fun.
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to be fair, Freddy's original rework shot him to the top of the kill rates AND the top of the pick rates. Its only when they nerfed the numbers on his rework and butchered his addons that he became the hot piece of garbage he is today
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But that wasn't good.
Not only due to the impact it had for people who played him before the rework, which has been discussed many times here on the Forums, but also due to the fact that his post-rework power was really unhealthy for the game.
He couldn't have been left the way he was.
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And you did not understand its meaning at all.
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Mission accomplished, I guess.
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If SM being disabled in the dog lady PTB together with Freddy is anything to go by, that means she might be getting her rework at the same time as Freddy in january. Hopefully not too long later at least.
They're totally right about her being nerfed because of her high killrate though. She was an outliar, even when not counting DCs. Sure she wasn't fun to play against, but the real issue was that her power gave her so much for almost zero effort, and was extremely unintuitive to play against for anyone that wasn't very familiar with the killer. And even once you understood her power it was still pretty annoying as you say.
I'll agree that buffing her now before the rework is pointless. But when they do the rework, I seriously hope they go all in and dont half-ass it. New base model, new chase music, new animations so her strange walk matches her speed and looks good ingame. They really have to give her a new identity if they want people to be okay with her post rework. And that's assuming the power is actually well designed and fun to play with and against.
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We did confirm during the PTB, the fact she was disabled for that PTB is nothing to do with being reworked, that is not coming in January.
I will also remind you, these stats are not official and they're not comparable to her official statistics, so please do not read too much into them.
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what are the official stats then? can you share them?
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In all due respect, these stats are all we have to go by since y'all don't share these types of stat that often.. A lot of times the stats yall show are kinda meanless and useless. Like in the last stat update, there was no info on kill rates or anything, yall just show 2v8 stats and meanless stats for slingu like the average biopod use. No one really wants to see those types of stats, most want to see stats they can find on Nightlight: kill rates, pick rates, and perk pick rates. Also would be great to see things like Map escape rates, and average hooks per killer.
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Why is OP deducting 2.5% because the Devs said so? Do you still think people are still First Hook offing themselves that much in a 14 day span? OP just stirring the pot with this post.
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The official stats are also unbelievable in reality such as stating that the nurse is underpowered and that trapper is strong. Something is flawed somewhere along the line.
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To be fair, I've seen petty DCs and hook suicides against Skull Merchant even after her execution.
The only reason it is no longer a common scenario is due to the fact people barely play her anymore, which is absolutely understandable.
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It's funny, I've had people genuinely flame the hell out of me in the EGC because they lost to 1 beam Skully. It's wild.
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Yep, I've actually seen it happen.
P94 Skull Merchant during the Halloween event. She played really fair, the way killers used to play back when BBQ was around. Got 3 people, I escaped through the hatch. Still not enough to stop Ada from disconnecting and flame the killer in the end game chat.
That is one of many reasons why I believe all of her recent nerfs should be reverted. This is no different than what happened with Freddy after his release, and these people shouldn't have their way. Refusing to learn how to play against something that isn't problematic should never be rewarded.
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R.I.P. Skull Merchant. I can't say you'll be missed but you definitely didn't deserve to be freddied.
I don't think the devs will buff her anytime soon. They achieved their goal. And the goal was to gut this killer so that all her problems are swept under the rug. I hope she won't need to wait for her rework as long as Freddy though.
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These killers are forgotten by Behavior, they won't do anything forget it... they care about the most recent killers but in reality they only look at the survi side
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Skull Merchant as much as I love her character, balancing is a losing game, and that is to the fault of the community.
The goal of these changes are to somewhat destroy the stigma of skull merchant, and make her "bad" before making her good, however strangely this isn't working. You would think being made an awful killer who is basically a more situational trickster at this point would finally cause all people who dislike the skull merchant to fade, and yet that isn't happening. In order to properly balance skull merchant the community would need to accept skull merchant, but that would be very difficult.0 -
I initially thought she was hated primarily due to her power and the way SM players played the game. While I still believe that's true to some extent, I've realized that most of the dislike stems from the state she was released in. She was able to hold three gens for an incredible amount of time, which caused a lot of frustration among players.
At this point, I think she will continue to be disliked regardless of any changes made to her. Honestly, this mostly falls on the developers. They should never have released the killer in the state that SM was in at her launch. All it has done is make people dislike her to the point where even a rework might not prevent players from leaving games against her or harboring resentment towards her. It is what it is.
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Funnily enough this didn't bother new players much they love Urban Evasion xD
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Her nerf was basically Freddy 2.0. Nuked because of high kill rate into worst killer in DBD.
Most likely her rework will be also same as Freddy and it is going to fail.
Hard to say if it will be worse than Twins, Sadako, Trickster, Freddy reworks. That is quite difficult to do, but wouldn't suprise me at this point.
I would personally completely drop "drone" idea. They simply can't manage it to work.0 -
Nothing is flawed, there's just more to the story. Peanits covered both of those killers in the past regarding their stats. He said Nurse comes with the game and is tried out by alot of people (especially so, i'd imagine, because of her reputation as one of the strongest killers) but because she is difficult to master alot of new players have poor results and drop her. This drags down her kill rate. He said Trapper is the face of the game and is usually the first killer alot of people use to great success in lower MMR brackets. Basically he's a noob stomper.
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Hope you understand now how BHVR works.
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Like i said, their stats are flawed. They balance around the numbers and don't use the big picture. They declare trapper is strong and nurse is underpowered. This is clearly flawed.
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Can we get what her actual stats are? Even if the sample size is below 1% it is extremely extremely unlikely her kill rate is above 60%.
We shouldn't even be balancing around killrates, but thats purely what got SM nerfed so thats what we need to show she needs buffs.
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To the devs benefit they have never declared any of that. As for the trapper, they said they are happy where he is at bc he is usually the first killer ppl play and they want to keep him as simple as possible for those newer players so they can learn the game. In low mmr ranks trapper can do very well bc survivors are also learning the game. He is just weak in higher MMR rankings but honestly, there is not much devs can do to him without making him harder to play which kinda defests his purpose of bringing a beginner-friendly killer. I always consider trapper as a foot-in-the-door killer, you play him to learn the basics and then jump to a strong killer when you feel you have a better idea of how the game is played.
As for Nurse, Im pretty sure devs never said she was weak and they understand in the right hands Nurse is the deadest killer in the game but she is probably a low priority bc other killers need more attention, ie Freddy, Myres, and SM since only a very few players actually play nurse.
Overall yes numbers only give you part of the picture and but I also think the devs know this as well.
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They only look at the survivor side? You’re kidding with that statement aren’t you?
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And therein lies the issue: SM's abnormally high kill rate was cited as a driving reason behind the sledgehammer nerfs she got.
When the team brings up her kill rates being high as a reason to slam her into the dirt (whether or not that was their intention), it should not be surprising that players continue to use stats as the barometer for the Killer's balance after the fact. BHVR does not provide kill or pick rate stats basically ever (the last ones we got were in February) so it stands to reason that the unofficial Nightlight stats become the most commonly cited.
BHVR has not given an update on Merchant's performance since she got the anvil that was patch 8.3.0 dropped on her head. When a Killer is released or reworked the team has often given a small burst of stats and info about their performance to help the community understand the changes and get a bit of insight as to what the developer attitude is on the Killer. Unknown, Vecna, post-rework Hillbilly have had these stat burst before. Merchant hasn't had that: all we have to work with is "the Killer is absolutely atrocious to play with, nobody is playing her and the only stats we have access to indicate she's cripplingly weak even if played by her die hard mains and nobody else". Nightlight's not perfect, but it's the best we've got and in comparing pre- and post-nerf SM's stats, the official stats weren't too far off Nightlight's stats.
Pre-nerf Merchant had a kill rate of 72-75% according to the developer livestream that came with the Merchant nerfs. During the same period, Nightlight's kill rate stats were 69-72%. So slightly off, but not too far off.
Post nerf Merchant has a kill rate on Nightlight over the last 14 days of 46%. FORTY SIX PERCENT. That's a 25% ish drop from her peak performance: by the numbers, it's the biggest nerf in DBD history equating to approximately a whole extra Survivor escaping every trial.
Nightlight's numbers were 3% ish lower than the official stats before the nerfs. If that gap is still the same, we're looking at a kill rate of approx 49%, which is still massively lower than the cited 62% goal for Killer balance.
Without better stats from BHVR themselves, that's the only portrait we have of modern Merchant; a Killer on life support who will be left there for at least the next year.
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The devs stated in a nutshell the nerf was from all the DCS against the killer because statistically they view DCs as a failure in design so they nerfed her to make her more tolerable to go against.
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Can we stop bringing nightlight stats up. I will never care or take in consideration self reported stats
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a Killer on life support who will be left there for at least the next year.
Welcome to my world, I suppose.
It is absolutely wild that it has happened again, when we have a clear example (Freddy) of how terrible such situations are for the dedicated players.
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I also agree 💯
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Unfortunately, it seems the lesson wasn't learned after Freddy.
SM didn't deserve the same treatment. They went too far.
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I’m afraid not. However Freddy’s was a rework into a nerf. Skull mommy was just a complete nerf. Same devastating direction though
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I mean, isn't it exactly like Freddy?
She first got kinda rework, where her drones and claw trap were changed quite a lot, then she got nuked…0 -
Like I said same devasting direction which equaled to the same result. It’s completely uncalled for…again. Maybe they won’t wait 6 years to fix her 🤣🤣
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Also let's hope we won't have another Twins, where rework is so bad they had to remove most of it.
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I would only accept a buff, if its a 100% rework. No more drones to put somewhere. No undeserved undetecteble und no haste or hinder effects. She was totally cheap to play with her Power. You could easly start a round 4k it and you didnt think anything for the entiere round. This killer doesnt need any skill or brainpower. Its the perfect combie for no fun playing and no fun playing against. So I would preffer a 100% rework and yes the visuals too.
Sry if it sounds mean or agressiv, but I cant stand this killer. I would pay the money I make in a year for the remove
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