I don't think improving Solo Q is possible
I come to the conclusion that no matter how many tools and survival tips you give solo q players, it will not help. You're making it easier for SWF to track progress though. I guess that's good?
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It will help. If icons appeared for certain perks like Deliverance, or if they removed the bubbles for Kindred or at least let you see the aura through it - that would be amazing. There are several perks that need to be shown when a survivor has it equipped so other survivors can move more efficiently in solo q. Nothing will ever beat comms but survivors should be able to see each other builds in lobbies too.
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Making it so people can't instantly give up would be a good start.
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Were you around before the first wave of survivor icons were given to solo queue? The change in behavior and efficiency was huge. Previously you often had all 3 players come to an unhook, or everyone assumed everyone else was doing it. Now icons make it relatively clear that one player is doing the unhook while the others are occupied - and if the player going for the unhook gets intercepted and chased, another player has the information necessary to stop what they're doing and start unhooking.
Gen progress allows solos to time Adrenaline, and it also gets players to stop working on barely-started gens and move to exit gates for quickest possible exit gate 99ing. Exit gate icons allow players to guess whether a gate has been completed, or if both gates are good to go. The chase icon tells you if you're safe or whether you should be watching for the killer.
Information does improve solo gameplay. Sure, you can't deal with sandbaggers, ragequitters, and baby players, but claiming all of this is pointless is just blatantly false. And there is plenty more information I would like to see added to solo queue, such as anti-camp meter progress and Head On locker auras.
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no
played like 7 games this morning and died each game. Each game I had stupid teammates doing stupid teammate things like getting hit in basement and then running AWAY instead of trading with 0 hooks, me being the only person working on a gen, DCs/giving up where it's not yet warranted, etc.
I've been playing killer a lot more recently and it's actually funny because I'm not the best so I won't say that gens 'fly' so much as my chases take a bit longer than I'd like but my the survivors in my killer games seem to understand to do gens, when to trade, how to pull off saves and ultimately just how to work as a team despite not being SWFs. It's such a contrast to my solo q experience and I can't understand why I can't queue up with these type of survivors when I play, I get the most potato teammates 9/10 games.
I don't know how you could improve solo q anymore, the improvement has to be in the mmr system at this point. Bad players will just be bad players and you can't fix stupid
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The biggest problem with solo queue by far is matchmaking. The SBMM system simply does not function. I have around 2,200 hours and as a solo queue survivor I will get matched with great survivors with thousands of hours one match and then get matched with brand new players who have no clue what they are doing the next. I've seen <50 hour players in my lobbies more times than I can count, and I don't think I lose enough to be bottom basement MMR. When I have competent, experienced teammates, solo queue is usually quite fun and competitive. The real awful solo queue experience that everyone talks about really only occurs when I have terrible teammates.
The first thing that needs to happen is scrapping the "escapes = skill" and "kills = skill" method for calculating MMR. Just use the friggin' emblem system - that alone would be a huge improvement. 2nd thing is to allow players to choose longer queue times for better matchmaking accuracy. I would be totally fine with 2-3x longer queue times if it guaranteed players at my same skill level.
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Yes, it will help, but for people, who already pay attention to the game. I stopped take Kindred in soloq long time ago, you know why? It's pointless sometimes, I still see two people run to me on hook or nobody run to me at all, even when they all can see each other.
I support soloq improvements, but OP is right, since most players are really awful at this game, it won't help in bigger picture. It will help me, just good survivor, who constantly pay attention and think about further steps, but it won't help to my teammates: Sable, who gave up first hook against Pig on strongest map against m1 killers, Jeff, who missed 3 skill checks in a row with 3k hours, Mikaela, who take off Victor asap and drink from fountains against Plague in the middle of the map, while everyone is injured, and Ash, who let go on hook against Bubba camping him in endgame and magically turn 1k into 3k for killer. There is nothing in a world what can help these people. Literally n-o-t-h-i-n-g.3 -
Completely agree with every word. I better sit in a lobby for 5-10 minutes and play 1 good and competitive match than find 3 matches, where survivor barely understand what they are doing. Because no matter how much people crying here that "soloq is unplayable", it's really fun experience with good teammates. Get 4 man out against good 3 gen Singularity in soloq is what I will remember for years.
Literally on monday had 4 escape in a row in soloq, after which I got lobby with 100-400 hours survivors. There is no logic at all in it.2 -
Bacause it is almost impossible to balance a game for new/bad players and veteran/good players at the same time.
Maybe if matchmaking works 100% correct and new killers would only play against new survs - but as we know it does not. And i guess it can never.
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In theory, it is possible. You would simply need to integrate voice comms into the game. However, many solo Q survivors would simply not use them. Many others would abuse it to troll or insult others, further alienating the rest and making them not use it. And most people who play the game are against voice comms being integrated into it, so…
Thus, buffing solo Q implies introducing other types of mechanics that will never be on par with the tools that SWF has access to simply because they are on comms. For starters making Kindred basekit (the seeing auras of all survivors part, not the killer aura part). The soon to be added info in the survivor HUD is also a great step. I would add being able to see your teammates' perks in the lobby.
Edit: English
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Survivors should have aura on each other as basekit and the game should balance around it
there's no way to address the communication gap of premades otherwise
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There’s a few things they can do to improve SoloQ:
- Decrease the bleed-out timer by 50%.
- Implement a mandatory secondary objective for Survivors and reduce tunneling by either making it much harder for the Killer to target the recently unhooked. They could implement teleporting hooks and making the Survivor invisible and have their collision removed so they can get away unnoticed and the Killer will be forced to go after the unhooker. This can be deactivated (or not) after 4 gens are completed, depending on what the secondary objective will be and how long it takes to accomplish.
- Implement a chat wheel that lets Survivors indicate their intention - “I’m going for the save”, “Don’t come”, “Hurry”, “Come to me” and whatever else they think will be useful.
- They can have MMR pool all the serial DCers and 1st hook quitters into their own matchmaking pool. They’ll have to play 10 games without quitting to get back into the regular pool.
- Introduction of dances because I want them.
5 - Decrease the bleed-out timer by 50%.
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I don't have a strong opinion about solo queue adjustments because it's hard to balance, but I would also like dances.
When a lute comes out, my dances should be better than spinning in circles :)
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I have always believed the true power of SWF is midigating the rng aspect of who you get on your team.
You know you're more likely to get picked, up or unhooked before second stage. You know they'll come back for you if they can, and much less likely to sandbag. You know if they're trying for adept or various challenges. And most importantly, over time you learn their tendencies as well as their strengths & weaknesses.
There's no way any of that can be really replicated in solo queue, and imo is far more impactful than the comms are.
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This is true. Some people on cross play who I've never spoken a word to IRL or online will invite me for matches. I bring them a cobbler and we try hard for each other. I know if there's a chance for a save, they go for it and so do I, but nobody's doing dumb plays.
It's something special to know your teammates aren't going to run at your hook with the killer behind them :)
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There being the root of the problem. Survivors that want to play matched with survivors that don't.
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Just had a team mate said ttv guy God forbid i wanna smth other then generators, these are the type of players i get daily on my solqo teams
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Isn't it obvious?
How would you rely on teammates without knowing perks they are using, their knowledge level?
Even with terrible matchmaking. Solo will forever be miserable compared to SWF.0 -
There is a very simple change to improve SoloQ. Unfortunately, whilst it is simple to suggest it, it's not likely due to how people are.
It's just stop being a wuss. Some just give up and screw the game for everyone. Even as Killer, when one person kills themself on hook I just feel it's a shute game.
As it currently stands, SoloQ has all the tools I need to succeed. It's amazing how many games we have had where there is no SWF, yet all four just get it. Heck, even if I'm with a new player I am just glad when they fight on. That's how people learn and get better, but unfortunately there are weak people who just cannot deal with facing the fact they aren't good, rather than accept it and get better.
It's attitude at the end of the day. People with a bad one are the wusses
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Solo play is only as strong as its intended success rate allows it to be, which is currently around 40%. If solo survivor success rates increase beyond what the devs aim for, it could disrupt the balance they intend. The fact is, a team of four random players with no communication trying to coordinate is inherently difficult, and the intended “balance” benefits from this difficulty. Expecting those strangers to play perfectly with no mistakes in that kind of setting is both unrealistic and unreasonable.
The idea that solo play ‘can’t’ be improved is misguided. People held that belief before updates like the HUD changes and anti-tunnel perks, yet those improvements happened, and they were needed and improved the game. This also isn’t a one-sided misbelief; a few years ago killers themselves were very unhappy with the game and wanted improvements. Just because they had tools and perks at their disposal to help their games doesn’t change the reality that they still needed adjustments, they weren’t having fun and the game was changed as a result. Killers are now enjoying their role again, which is a good thing.
Survivors wanting improvements are just as valid, especially when talking about Solo as it is the majority of the survivor playerbase, while SWF is the minority. Dismissing survivor struggles by claiming ‘everything they need, they already have’ feels undermining and counterproductive. Killers once advocated for changes despite others telling them to simply ‘git gud skill issue,’ and now the game is in a healthier place because those issues were addressed. It’s only fair to consider survivor frustrations as well.
Improvements can always be made, as the game is always evolving. Both “sides” deserve a fun gaming experience.4 -
i second this but in a more polite way. it's understandable people have become frustrated with the way the game is played, but a lot of the issues stems from people showing an unwillingness to learn or adapt. their form of adaptation is to try and get the game to change for them when it's not supposed to be like that.
i would say that most losses people encounter as survivor are due to the flaws of the team or someone causing the game to become lopsided by not wanting to play. it's difficult to balance a game that depends on a team of 4 against 1, but the team of 4 is instead a team of 2 or even 1.
sadly it's not in people's best interest to consider other players when doing what they do.1 -
Significantly improving solo queue is not possible. The largest issues are fundamental to the format, the fact that unfamiliar team mates will be both largely unable and likely unwilling to cooperate. You simply can't stop other players giving up if that's what they want to do.
That doesn't mean that there can be no improvements however. There are plenty of minor QoL changes that could make it less frustrating, and provide tools that those who have decent gamesense and are willing to cooperate could make use of.
One that stands out would be adding the AFC gauge to the survivor HUD. One of the easiest things SWF can communicate is "killer's still here", so there is no way this info could possibly serve as a buff for SWF. But it would provide crucial information that when combined with the existing HUD info, could inform of when to make a save attempt, and prevent camping being a disproportionately solo stomping tactic.
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The biggest QoL they could ever do to solo Q lol
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I guess they could make it so you can still do unhook attempts, but when they take you to second hook stage, you have a timer without skill checks for a while so you just hang there for some time, and then only get skill checks after a set time.
That would let your teammates force you back into the game, which I think is fine, and it wouldn't inherently increase the hook time since you can just add your time lost from unhook attempts onto the second stage. This would preserve unhook attempts, which can be really fun dramatic plays, while preventing people going next on hook, and not hurting the killer since they still get you to second stage from the unhook attempts.
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They should make unhook attempts only take 50% of the sacrifice progress they do now (so 3 attempts by default will leave you with 45s on the hook), and make it so that missing two skill checks on struggle doesn't immediately kill you.
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What they need to do is reward individual effort and dump their half ass MMR system that is a complete joke. If you're rewarded for playing well you won't ######### on hook, you'll play the match out. Solo q players don't need to win they need to be rewarded with MMR if they're put in a match with other survivors that aren't even trying to win. To me this is common sense, I think the lack of acknowledgement of this by the dev team results in more toxic players and a lack of trust in the dev team.
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Only reward you get for survivor is looping the killer. 20-30 seconds of running is roughly the same BP as soloing a 90 second gen. So doing objective to escape is worth 3x less then running.
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You overestimate the intelligence of the average survivor player. Like OP said, no amount of buffs or free information is gonna make uncarryable teams carryable. They don't understand what they're doing. I don't even think they know what game they're playing. "We're playing Death By Daylight, right? With Jason from Friday the 13th on the cover?"
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Let them do it. Just have harsher bans.
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No. I've got two words for you: Placebo effect.
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Therefore, don't do gens? Or what?
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I came to the same conclusion long ago. You're never gonna be able to buff bottom level survivors (majority of the playerbase) to a level where they can win against killers who know what they're doing. And if you do, at that point you've wrecked the game beyond scavenging. Sadly, that's the devs' strategy currently. Free BT, free anti-camp, free info, self-blocking gens against the killer, etc. Solos still get 4k'd having all of that. But SWF? They've never known what it is to be nerfed. They're the untouchable elite who get stronger every patch.
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It's because at the end of the day, whether they want to admit it or not, the issue is not a lack of information, it's skill. The average dbd player is very bad. Adding more and more information isn't going to fix this.
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lack of information contributes to lack of skill because you can't make accurate plays on blind guesses.
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They aren't "blind guesses" though. Most of that information is deductible through game knowledge and critical thinking.
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Any info that is available to SWF should be feasibly available to solo survivors without breaking the game.
Info such as 'is the killer near the hook' would be easy to implement by adding the AFC gauge to the HUD, allowing solo survivors to make the same, correct, play against campers that SWF can do every time, which is to slam gens.
This shouldn't be controversial.
It's not going to fix all of solo queues problems, but it's still an improvement.
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"Any info that is available to SWF should be feasibly available to solo survivors without breaking the game."
In a hypothetical world where the game was balanced around SWF, yeah, I agree. Unfortunately it's not. So we're pushing everything to be the same level as something that the game isn't balanced for.
"This shouldn't be controversial."
It's not contraversial. People don't disagree with it because they don't want it, they disagree with it because the game isn't balanced for SWF level info.
"It's not going to fix all of solo queues problems, but it's still an improvement. "
Solo queue has problems, but none of them are related to information.
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There are absolutely solo queue problems related to information.
I just explained a major one, but if you need it spelled out:
A camping killer should be countered by doing gens and making use of as much of the hook timer as possible. SWF can do this easily.
Without information, solo survivors attempt a hook rescue, only to find the killer by the hook as they arrive. It's now too late to run back across the map to do the gen instead.
This sort of information isn't going to bring solo completely up to SWF level, there is no risk of screwing the game balance. But it is going to be a big QoL improvement for the solo survivors who do have good gamesense and know what to do in a given situation.
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"I just explained a major one, but if you need it spelled out:"
There's no need to be condescending. We're having a normal conversation like adults.
"Without information, solo survivors attempt a hook rescue, only to find the killer by the hook as they arrive. It's now too late to run back across the map to do the gen instead."
Too late to turn back? Lol what. You can tell they're camping before you're giving them a hug. Saying it's too late to just pump gens by the time you find out they're camping is a false statement.
"This sort of information isn't going to bring solo completely up to SWF level, there is no risk of screwing the game balance. But it is going to be a big QoL improvement for the solo survivors who do have good gamesense and know what to do in a given situation."
I handle this all the time in solo queue without information. I check, they're camping, I pump gens. We even have longer hook timers to facilitate this.
You also didn't address any of my points of why doing all this is an issue. The game isn't balanced around SWF info but you're wanting it pushed towards everyone having SWF info.
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And yet you've still lost as much as say 40 seconds of a gen where SWF will have lost nothing, on three survivors.
I 'addresed it' with my last paragraph.
The largest hurdle against solo queue meeting SWF levels is the fact that randomly matched uncoordinated players rarely cooperate. That isn't going to change no matter what info you give them. There is no risk of solo performing at SWF levels. The whole "shouldn't be balanced at that level" thing is misleading from the start because it'll never happen.
And even if it was possible, closing the gap between solo and SWF should be the number one priority anyway. If it requires other changes to right the balance so be it. The disparity between solo and SWF is a problem.
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it doesn't matter that the game is not balanced around swf. the fact that killer face swf that are strong should plenty of reason to balance around swf from killer side and reduce any outliers which in this topic is soloq. I shouldn't need to make deductions for what survivor are on what gens because swf doesn't need to do deductions.
a lot of soloq is avoiding sandbagging your teammates on number of issues which tend to be on healing, gens and pallets. all of stuff that swf doesn't care about and perfectly optimizes every game if they're good. saying you need bring perk to optimize these is saying you should play with -1, -2, -3 perk slots etc. which isn't ideal. all those perk slots swf can use to optimize winning in a variety of different ways.
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The game is currently balanced around bad solo queue players. You're talking about throwing off the balance. Yes, these changes don't suddently make them "SWF" level, but it pushes them towards that direction that is already very unbalanced.
Solo queue problems are matchmaking and skill issues, not info. I already gave reasons countering all your points of why that info isn't needed.
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Closing the gap between solo and SWF should be the number one priority anyway. If it requires other changes to right the balance so be it. The disparity between solo and SWF is a problem.
What possible reason could there be for not showing the AFC gauge on the HUD exactly?
This is info freely available to SWF and cannot be replicated by a perk.
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"I shouldn't need to make deductions for what survivor are on what gens because swf doesn't need to do deductions. "
HUD shows gen progress, not what gen. Do you want SWF comp group clock callout info to know which exact gen? The average swf isn't doing clock callouts, so I think you're representing an outlier we shouldn't be balancing for.
"saying you need bring perk to optimize these is saying you should play with -1, -2, -3 perk slots etc. which isn't ideal. all those perk slots swf can use to optimize winning in a variety of different ways. "
Which is why I didn't state this. You're giving a counter argument for a stance I don't have.
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This is actually the most delusional take I ever see on these forums. Many survivor players would quit playing the game if they are trapped in every unwinnable game with worthless teammates. BHVR needs to fix the game and actually make it playable for solo que FIRST, and then maybe enact more penalties for dc's and/or get rid of going next on hook. I actually believe at this point Bhvr is just lazy, they choose to make killers overpowered but just keep the ability for survivors to give up so they'll keep playing. I think the only way they will ever fix it is if survivors stop playing en masse, but the "release valve" of being able to give up prevents this, as well as Bhvr throwing a bone to survivors once in awhile by making a 2v.8 which is more survivor sided.
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"Closing the gap between solo and SWF should be the number one priority anyway. If it requires other changes to right the balance so be it. The disparity between solo and SWF is a problem."
I agree. The problem is you're wanting to bring the part of play that is currently balanced for up to the part of play that the game isn't balanced for. Wrong direction. I would bring SWF down to Solo queue play. That makes much more sense.
"What possible reason could there be for not showing the AFC gauge on the HUD exactly?"
We want to bring swf down to what the game is balanced for, not the opposite.
To be clear, I'd make it literally impossible to tunnel someone out. So I'd go a different direction to prevent even more than just a HUD showing the gauge.
Nearly never do I lose solo queue games and think whether I won or lost them was because of a lack of information. It's almost always me or my teams skill. "Lack of info" is almost always an excuse for accountability.
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It absolutely does not make more sense to bring SWF down to solo levels.
For starters, this isn't possible. It would require inflicting penalties on premade groups, which amounts to punishing people for playing with their friends.
When we talk about "SWF levels" we are not refering to every premade group. Many groups or SWFs are not the highly skilled highly coordinated teams that pose a balancing issue. They're just average players who want to have fun with their friends.
Not to mention that most newbies get into this game through friend connections and that playing in a swf is the best way to learn the game.
To impose the same penalties on them that would be required to "bring SWF down to solo levels" would result in significantly handicapping survivors just playing with their friends. To the point where they would be better off playing solo.
You haven't leveled the playing field, you've just shifted the imbalance and made it miserable for different players. You've made it miserable for the less skilled survivors who play with their friends, and you've likely decimated the survivor population in the process.
You cannot fairly "nerf" SWF without ruining the game for the majority of survivors.
You can only buff solo, by providing the tools needed to perform as close to SWF levels as possible.
That means info. Because info is what SWF have over solo, and what is redundant to SWF and therefore cannot serve as a buff to SWF.
Info is the only viable way to close the gap between solo and SWF.
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Where are the arguments or any points to support this random statement that quite frankly comes across more as a bait post than an actual post giving valid points?
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To be clear, I'd make it literally impossible to tunnel someone out. So I'd go a different direction to prevent even more than just a HUD showing the gauge.
Congratulations you just buffed SWF.
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"For starters, this isn't possible. It would require inflicting penalties on premade groups, which amounts to punishing people for playing with their friends."
"-X% repair speed" bam, possible. No, this not punishing people for playing with friends, it's just balancing compensation. Calling it punishing people for people with friends is disingenuous and misleading in its phrasing. It implies an "unjust treatment" of which it's not, it's just balancing advantages they get for a balanced game.
"When we talk about "SWF levels" we are not refering to every premade group. Many groups or SWFs are not the highly skilled highly coordinated teams that pose a balancing issue. They're just average players who want to have fun with their friends."
Yes I agree they are not all sweat squads. However, this is significantly downplaying how much advantage and how unfair of a match it is even for a "casual" swf group.
"You haven't leveled the playing field, you've just shifted the imbalance and made it miserable for different players."
No, I haven't. They get advantages from being in a swf and my change would add a -% to compensate. That isn't "making it miserable". They're okay getting massive advantages that the game isn't balanced for but not okay with any balancing negative? That would be hypocritical.
"You cannot fairly "nerf" SWF without ruining the game for the makority of survivors."
I disagree and I haven't seen any reason so far as to assume as much.
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So quick to jump at being condescending without even knowing the rest of the changes I would do. Why are you so eager to insult people who disagree with you?
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