I don't think improving Solo Q is possible
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The advantages of SWF are not guaranteed, they are potential. It provides the potential for better coordination and it is still up to the survivors skill to make use of that potential.
Many, many groups are not performing at these high levels with a ton of advantages. Many friend groups are no better than solo survivors.
Most of my SWF games are no more advantageous because my friends aren't seriously players. We ######### around and have fun and mess up and distract each other.
Then there's my other friends who are brand new to the game and actively pose as a handicap, and it's everything I can do to help them survive.
What is forcing a % repair penalty on these teams going to do?
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Any mechanism that "makes it impossible to tunnel" is something survivors can weaponise, particularly the highly skilled highly coordinated SWF teams.
What is insulting or condescending about what I said?
You suggested a buff to SWF.
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"The advantages of SWF are not guaranteed, they are potential. It provides the potential for better coordination and it is still up to the survivors skill to make use of that potential."
Disagree. You get to pick the skill level of your teammates, ignoring matchmaking and with voice chat, communication on everything.
"Many, many groups are not performing at these high levels with a ton of advantages. Many friend groups are no better than solo survivors. "
To imply many, many of swf groups are no better advantaged than solo queue is extremely disingenuous.
"Then there's my other friends who are bramd new to the game and actively pose as a handicap, and it's everything I can do to help them survive."
And if you're with them you'd be giving massive advantages counteracting any negative he would have. I don't think this point has any validity.
"What is forcing a % repair penalty on these teams going to do?"
Balance out the unfair advantages they are getting from pre selecting their groups.
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"Any mechanism that "makes it impossible to tunnel" is something survivors can weaponise, particularly the highly skilled highly coordinated SWF teams."
Not if there were corresponding changes to balance it out.
"What is insulting or condescending about what I said?"
There's no need to be coy. "Congratulations" is meant to be condescending. We all know this.
"You suggested a buff to SWF."
And then you assumed everything else without simply asking. I had even already been talking about how I would bring SWF down to solo queue level.
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These groups are not preselected to optimise their skill, these groups are preselected based on who my friends are.
I'm not being disingenuous, but you are absolutely gaslighting my experience playing this game when you say my swf games have given me an unfair advantage. If I had any possible advantage in these teams, my escape rate would be higher than it is when I play solo, which is not the case.
Who is being condescending now?
You speak as if you've never played the game with actual friends before.
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"These groups are not preselected to optimise their skill, these groups are preselected based on who my friends are."
These conversations aren't about you, they're about the average player base.
"I'm not being disingenuous, but you are absolutely gaslighting my experience playing this game when you say my swf games have given me am unfair advantage."
Playing in a swf is 100% a massive unfair advantage that the game isn't balanced for. I'm sorry, that's fact.
"Who is being condescending now?"
Please do list what I said that was condescending. I've said nothing condescending, only statements about balance.
"You speak as if you've never played the game with actual friends before."
I do, and I understand that while it's fun playing with my friends I also accept that we have a massive unfair advantage.
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These conversations aren't about you, they're about the average player base.
If you think the average playerbase is in any way different to my experience, please explain why.
You seem to be treating the top 5% as "average".
Data would suggest otherwise considering that is only a 3% difference between solo and SWF across all MMR brackets.
Calling my experience disingenuous, and implying my friend groups are supposedly far below "average" is fairly condescending.
Btw, does this mean SWF should get a 3% penalty to repair speeds? Is that going to counteract your "impossible to tunnel" SWF weapon?
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Firstly, their data is flawed for a multitude of reasons and nearly worthless in terms of measuring balance. We can get into that, but I don't want to detract off OP's original topic.
"implying my friend groups are supposedly far below "average" is fairly condescending."
That's gaslighting. I have said nothing even remotely close to this or implied anything remotely close to this. Go back and read what I wrote. I have said nothing of the such whatsoever. You commented about you playing with your friends and I said my statements are talking about the average survivor group, not a personal experience such as yours. This is because we talk about averages, not anecdotal experiences. I do this intentionally so that none of my statements are personal towards anyone. That is misconstruing what I said heavily.
"Calling my experience disingenuous"
I also never said your experience was disingenuous. I said that statement was disingenuous. This is misinterpreting what I said again.
I am trying to keep this conversation professional and you are making it personal so I think we need to agree to disagree here and just end the conversation.
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“"-X% repair speed" bam, possible. No, this not punishing people for playing with friends, it's just balancing compensation. Calling it punishing people for people with friends is disingenuous and misleading in its phrasing. It implies an "unjust treatment" of which it's not, it's just balancing advantages they get for a balanced game.”
I’m always happy that the devs don’t listen to terrible ideas like this. What you should be asking for is for buffs to weaker killers and buffs to solo. Maybe some basekit mechanics like basekit corrupt. Or maybe a mini no way out (I’m just spitballing ideas)
you may not realize but bhvr is a business and they want more people playing their game. So asking for nerfs to swf makes 0 sense and from a gameplay perspective it just makes the game worse for the rest of the player base. This maybe be helpful vs a comp team or a very sweaty swf. That’s not most of the player base. So it just makes the experience worse2 -
“You speak as if you've never played the game with actual friends before”
Lmao
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Can you please explain how else I am supposed to interpret:
These conversations aren't about you, they're about the average player base.
When I have just explained how my swf experience offers me no tangible advantage (no increase in escape rate), and you have suggested that the average SWF has a huge advantage.
Is what I'm doing grossly abnormal? Should I be optimising my friend groups so that I'm only playing with sweaty survivors like the "average" player?
You seem convinced that the "average" survivor is in fact the sweaty SWFs that plague high MMR. And go so far as to suggest that BHVR's own statistics are wrong. Now I can agree averaging statistics paints an incomplete picture and can obscure nuance, but the one thing they are by definition is average.
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Well other than the rude comment at the start I appreciate the input on the topic. I could see another direction of buffing solo if we also buffed weak killers and basekit corrupt ect ect. I'm open to that idea. Most people usually just want "buff solo" and the conversation ends there. Good ideas.
"you may not realize but bhvr is a business and they want more people playing their game. So asking for nerfs to swf makes 0 sense and from a gameplay perspective it just makes the game worse for the rest of the player base. This maybe be helpful vs a comp team or a very sweaty swf. That’s not most of the player base. So it just makes the experience worse "
I do disagree with this for the reasons I've already stated previously, but I do like your other ideas.
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you told me that we shouldn't be balanced around outliers swf but than proceed to put arbitrary penalty on outlier swf.
Disagree. You get to pick the skill level of your teammates, ignoring matchmaking and with voice chat, communication on everything.
average player according to you lacks skill. suddenly, they magically acquired skill by playing a swf such that they need -action speed penalty.
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"but than proceed to put arbitrary penalty on outlier swf. "
I'm not referencing arbitrary outlier swf.
"average player according to you lacks skill"
True.
"they magically acquired skill by playing a swf such that they need -action speed penalty. "
I have never said this, or implied it. Saying they get an unfair advantage, is not the same thing as saying they "acquired skill".
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Didnt the devs already state they wont split "survivor" into "solo" and"swf" for balancing?
Mechanically, theyre the same already, unless you count comms as ingame-mechanics.
Add chatwheel ( focus repair, heal me, put dispenser here) with anti spam. Thats the most commslike thing to add without adding comms.
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If the devs can't improve the game for solo q survivors which is the vast majority of the playerbase then they need to try harder.
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Almost half of all survs are in at least a two-man SWF last time they put out such numbers.
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