Why Wraith is so insanely overpowered?
Seriously he one of the strongest and most insufferable killer to go againt. Seriously why he have so much broken stuff that make playing agains him almost impossible. For example:
- Why he has speed increase while cloaked?
- Why he has speed boost after uncloaked it makes mostly loops useless against him ( there is many times why il already vaulting but he is still get me cause stupid speed boost?
- Why flashlight dont stun him anymore while cloaked (literally it was only counterplay against hes busted power)?
- Why he has so insanely good addons that make him not just annoying but impossible to go against (fast breaking while cloaked, silent bell, gen aure, faster uncloaking and etc.)?
- And finally why he can bodyblock while cloaked its double unfair cause of his insane speed?
So to fix this broken mess he should be nerfed very heavily. Cause its not okay why so easy to play killer being that powerful that only comp SWF can do something against him. So here is fix suggestion
- Remove speed bonus while cloaked (He is already 4.6m killer and gain undetectable, more speed is unessary and broken)
- Remove speed boost after he is uncloaked (I think hes need to be slowdown after uncloaked like 8% hindered for 3 sec)
- Return lightburn mechanic
- Rework his addons to get Freddy/Pyramid Head treatment
- Make him lose colision while cloaked
Comments
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Wraith is a newbie stomper. I used to hate him when I first started playing this game, but not anymore. I think he is a fun killer to verse. It used to be funnier with the flashlight burn.
Mindgames against Wraith are fun. Sometimes they have Bamboozle and you just hold W
Pallet standoffs against Wraith are fun
Spam vault to block their vault/break prompt is also fun9 -
- For Your Complaints
- So that he can have some map pressure.
- So that he can have a anti-loop tool.
- Because BHVR wanted to remove item interactions with killer power. I believe Nemesis zombies are the only one still in the game.
- Add-ons are gold standard. They increase his power for the most part while having very few trash choices.
- So he can stop survivors who path badly or are out of position; giving him some more anti-loop.
- For Your Suggestions
- No. He would lose all map pressure.
- No. He would lose all anti-loop.
- No. BHVR don't want item interactions w/killer powers.
- No. His add-ons are the gold standard others killers should follow.
- No. He shouldn't be punished for using his power correctly.
Also, Wraith is a very middle of the pack killer. There is nothing OP about him at all but you are entitled to your opinion.
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Wraith is quite weak honestly
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He is strongest M1 killer and real nightmare for solo survivors also biggest tunneler and camper
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I understand that you killer main but say that Wraith addons are fine is just ridiculous. They extramly annoying and undeserved powerful, he is desperatly need addon pass (please make them like Freddy/Pyramid Head addons). Plus hes not deserved map pressuere and anti-loop cause how annoying he is, so speed boost should gone for good.
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This post is obviously one of two things. A troll post or a noob post. Wraith is notoriously not overpowered. Only someone inexperienced in the game would think so. If you think Wraith is overpowered then my recommendation is to play 100 games as Wraith. At first you'll probably go up against newbs and stomp them easily confirming your bias that Wraith is overpowered. But as you improve your MMR and start going up against experienced survivors, you'll start to see his short comings and how to exploit him.
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I play as Wraith and i play against Wraith. By playing him i usually get 4k in chill way cause mostly time its easy, seriously not on any other killer i get such good result with such little effort as him and i play without addons with mostly not meta perks. But playing against him is nightmare. We being killed at 4 gens left, 2 people usually "go next" on 1st hook and chase last less then 15 second. So he is indeed broken and needs changes
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I don't want to repeat myself but I will. Play 100 consecutive games as Wraith and record the results. The number of games you played as Wraith and against Wraith clearly isn't enough. You are simply wrong about your assumption. The 5 to 20 games you've played as Wraith are not enough. If you are playing against noobs then you can play as Trapper and never set a trap and still stomp. It's only when you build up enough MMR to go against experienced survivors that you'll start to see a killer's weaknesses. There is a reason that Wraith isn't considered a high tier killer.
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You must be new to the game if you're not only constantly running into Wraiths, but also losing to them. Keep playing, and you'll improve to the point where Wraiths are not an issue (unless your teammates are bad).
Also, the nerfs you suggested… those are terrible. Like, really terrible. Just keep playing and stop trying to look at everything from a balance perspective when you're new, it’s pointless.
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He is overturned. You realize quickly something is wrong when he can start uncloaking and he can still manage to hit you through sprint burst. Unless there is a pallet within 6 meters, he will hit you every time. Nobody defends him unless they are killer mains that enjoy free hits all the time.
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- So what? A killer needs some kind of power. Being a M1 killer is not enough.
- Because otherwise he'd have absolutely nothing in chase and couldn't hit you after uncloaking. He slows himself down while he uncloaks and that distance is barely shorter than what he can cover with the increased movement speed and lunge. If the speed boost was removed he'd literally just screw himself by using his power in chase.
- Because the devs don't want killers to be countered by items, since that is very inconsistent. 4 flashlights could be a hard counter and no flashlights could mean that the killer would be at a huge advantage. It's better to balance a killer by their base kit and addons. Not to mention, Wraith was never strong enough for Lightburn to be necessary.
- Because his base kit isn't all that powerful. The weaker a killer is, the more powerful their addons can be without them becoming broken. Silent Bell is quite strong indeed but for the most part it's not an issue. You can still hear him coming because he makes some noise while cloaked. It's also possible to see his silhouette when he's cloaked. Gen auras are very good but honestly this isn't that much of a step up from an experienced killer. Most killers know what gens are worked on anyway, so this is not that big of a deal. It does come in handy but it's not like he'll know where everyone is at all times.
- Because otherwise you'd make it to the window / pallet before he can hit you, which would limit his power even more.
Wraith honestly isn't that strong. Once you learn to watch out for his silhouette and the sounds he makes while cloaked, he pretty much never catches you off guard and at that point you can mostly treat him like a pure M1 killer.
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If you are sprinting as he is uncloaking, your pathing would have to be terrible to get hit, even at close distances. His slow down during the uncloak would put you well out of range of his lunge if you are actually sprinting (SB/Lithe/BL/etc)
Then again you think he's overtuned, so I guess I'd second the above recommendation to play him, climb up to high MMR with him, and take notes on how he gets destroyed so you can use that info as survivor.
Also the implication that only killer mains think he's weak (wonder why they wouldn't know how strong he apparently is?) is pretty broad too, most of the community on both sides generally agree that he is one of the weaker killers (though few would call him the worst.)
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Especially in the 2v8 mode, they buffed his movement or uncloak speed. Unless it is server lag, he has managed to hit me every time through sprint burst. Explain why a killer should be able to silently approach a survivor and if injured get an easy down?
You don't balance games with high MMR survivors while also dismissing high MMR killers, which has fundamentally destroyed balance in the game.
The so-called "community" that seems to dictate balance are full SWF teams that play killer. This is why those opinions should be dismissed. It's not even a secret anymore that solo Q is unplayable and it's due to balance.
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The point of playing high MMR is so that you can see how people counter you, as I mentioned. Wraith has multiple counters, some of which are even mentioned in this thread.
as for your claims about "full SWF teams that play killer(?)" you're looking for an excuse to dismiss info you don't agree with. Adding a random woe is solo Q comment at the end is not an argument, just a tangent complaint.
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He's perfectly fine, low skill, mid tier killer.
Of course, he might seem OP when you put Trapper as the ideal perfect balanced design.
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Maybe I'm just a terrible survivor with no skill, but hoping a window vault or a pallet is right beside you when he uncloaks doesn't sound like fair counterplay to me. Either he needs a terror radius while cloaked or his lunge needs reduced.
I mean, solo Q is a game mode that should be balanced properly and not dismissed.
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…….Did you just ask why a basic M1 killer who's only other power is stealth gets a speed increase why cloaked? Like, for real?
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Again, you're being hyperbolic. You do not need to be next to a window or pallet to not get hit by wraith, especially if you hear his footsteps and snarl/see his shimmer/have any awareness as he approaches. And exhaustion perks do counter his uncloak lunge, when used correctly. He often needs to cancel his decloak and chase until the sprint ends, catch up and look for a pallet/window to bodyblock, then uncloak and go for the lunge. Again, this is all counterable by proper pathing, not just using map resources.
Learn from it or don't, but there's a reason this wraith op sentiment usually gets laughed at.
(also, TR while cloaked? Lunge distance reduced? Those are horrible suggestions.)
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In which world is wraith op? He's still a normal m1 killer and therefore easy to play around, if he gets to bodyblock you then you were probably in a bad position to leave or too far away from the start and even then you can try to bait him to leave his route to block you with quick turns and spins.
The boost after uncloaking doesn't make loops useless they just make them actually 50/50 and not impossible lol.
The stuns with flashlight were just unnecessary, he was one of the only killers that are outplayed by pure luck because you ether bring a flashlight at random or find it in a chest. He didn't even have a power that's worth having a countered by items like nurse or hag (even there was it really questionable so I'm quite happy that they removed that) xD
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This is the second post I saw recently saying Wraith is op. Wraith's greatest power is hurting my eyes while I don't blink so I can see him coming.
I don't think he's op at all. That addon that lets him see gen progress by their auras is pretty strong, but he's not Nurse, so I'm alright going against a Wraith :)
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Are you serious? He actually has the most counterplay in the game. His speed and stealth isn't broken. It's what makes him have an ability, which on occasion leads to him getting downs. His add-ons are much the same, and are some of the best designed add-ons in the game. He's M1 at the end of the day. If you're having issues looping M1s, I don't really know what to tell you. But he does have the most counterplay, and it's simple to understand, especially if you've played as him. Survivors can literally counter everything. He uncloaks at a pallet? Drop it or call his bluff (he wants to 99% his uncloak so you drop it, so he can break it and still remain in cloak), and the moment you do call his bluff, you're in his head at all future loops. Some loops, he uncloaks at a pallet, and you can literally just go around the loop again or detach to another nearby loop. If he's not uncloaking under a pallet at a loop, 90% of the time you can just react and beat him back around to the pallet again. He goes for a body block on you? Look for when he does this, and run to a different nearby pallet/window (because he can't block everything at once). If he tries to vault or break a pallet, you can literally spam vault back and forth, which takes away his prompt, until he's forced to uncloak.
His post-uncloak speed-up/lunge used to be actually good, and now it sucks, always coming just short of hitting people when you really need him to. Because of that, survivors have control of chase, even on short loop tiles, instead of him. He used to be light burnable, but that was stupid and broken, because anyone with flashlights or flashbangs could just stun him for free, to where he'd actually have to hide from the survivors behind a wall while uncloaking. That was pathetic for a killer, hence why it got removed. His slowdown from having to uncloak is also really dang slow, to where the speed boost breaks even at best, and usually is actually worse. He pretty much needs Windstorm/Swift Hunt as auto-include add-ons.
I think complaining about killers as weak as he is shows the skill/maturity of the playerbase. Nurse, and flick Blight/Oni are killers who actually have next to no counterplay, because they just break into any angle, past any obstacles you can think of. But M1s like Wraith, Freddy, Pig, Ghost Face, Skull Merchant? How can you say there's no counterplay? You run a tile in a predetermined manner, using check spots and playing safe, and they literally can't get you. That's who you're complaining about.
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Calling something "the best M1 killer" is like determining "this is the strongest ant I've found." There's just nothing there. And you using emotional buzzwords like "annoying," and saying that ALL people who play Wraith are the biggest campers/tunnelers, isn't helping your case.
That is such a lie. Play him and see how smooth his uncloak/lunge is. Except it isn't, because it's slow and janky, ever since his nerf way back when. I can't remember the last time I got a hit with Wraith that I didn't have to fight for. He's like Freddy or Pig. He's got to fight for every little hit, even at the weakest of tiles. If your survivors have no clue what they're doing, then maybe your experience is different. But either way, we seem to be appraising two totally different killers.
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Bubbas should be holding the award for biggest tunnelers and campers ;)
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So why do all "experts" of this game rate him as a mid-tier killer? Elite players and others there is not a single one who thinks Wraith is among the strongest killers. Only players with little time in this game thinks Wraith is super strong. He is ok but nowhere close to being too strong. Anyone can name 10 killers stronger than Wraith without thinking long.
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clearly all other killers are even more overpowered and OP is just humble enough to complain only about wraith
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Return ligthburn to wraith easy fix.
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I used to feel the same way about him. I used to think he was an unstoppable terror. Since getting better at Survivor his weaknesses are more obvious.
Yes he will be on you like white on rice but his uncloaking is his achilles heel. You can make him waste a lot of time at pallets.
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Wraith is not OP or anything. He is probably a bit too efficient when you look at how easy he is to play, but this is alright.
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Wraith definitely isn't overpowered.
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You kind of outed yourself when you thought changing Wraith's addons to be similar to Pyramid Head/Freddy was a good idea OP.
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Arguably, when you go against skilled enough Survs as ANY Killer, you will start to see the weaknesses of ANY Killer. This isn't just a Wraith thing.
I will also add because others are stating this: There is no such thing as "just an M1 Killer". Every Killer has a power. The power can be countered in various ways, but they still have one. Even M1 Killers. This is Wraith's, play around it and learn the counters or you die in the round. Not to be blunt, but that's how it works.
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To be fair if the Ghostface in question has checkspotters, and he's any smart? He uses Shroud to hide his red stain. You can't checkspot a stain you can't see.
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Yeah, no kidding. I wouldn't argue against that. But this particular thread is discussing Wraith. The OP is taking a stance that makes it obvious that they lack experience playing as or against Wraith. I was merely pointing out that the solution to a lack of experience is to gain experience.
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Wraith is not op.
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Lucky for us the devs added clothing strips that are so wonky they can be seen over loops or go infront of him.
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saying something needs the Freddy treatment is a gross opinion.
Killers having interesting add ons is a good thing, having differences can help people learn a killer and play them to the funnest they could.
Py-head has 2 good add-ons. Why should wraith be brought down to boring cause a minority thinks he’s strong. Most people think he is fun and able to be counterplayed. Try finding a guide to play against him before complaining
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As someone who mains Wraith since the Freddy disaster if I want to be killer, he is a mind games killer. I win my games by being smarter than survivors. They are suicidally altruistic and will often unhook with 10 seconds, meaning I haven’t even had time to kick the generator and leave the area, so I’m right there inadvertently camping the hook, and you can’t ask a killer to pass up flesh when it throws itself at you. Wraith is also very easy to loop at a vault if he isn’t running perks for it, so I’ll body block a vault before uncloaking, or simply concede a chase I can’t win quickly and move on before wasting the time. Catching people in the open, fooling people into dropping pallets early in the game during chases I’m not actually committed to, and regularly kicking generators is how I win matches. All killers are going to be strong with addons, that’s not a Wraith specific issue. The killer is just using stealth and brains to outplay you, and there are multiple killers built around this concept. And it’s okay to be killed. Never go into a match expecting to live.
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Spirit, Pinhead, Sadako, Hag are technically M1 and way better than Wraith (Wraith is easier tho)
Combination of words M1 and biggest tunneler/camper doesn't seem right. Biggest definetly can't mean best, because he is not even close to any of those. Also not even biggest for either of those.
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Oh, you think every Ghostface wears the default skin…
That's kind of adorable, most serious ones don't. :)
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So you're saying to make wraiths add-ons useless?
The only reason pyramid head gets away with it is because he's actually a strong killer unlike Freddy AND Wraith...
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Pinhead is more m2 killer
Hag is no way stronger than Wraith. She is one of the 3 killers (with Ghostface and Trapper) when survivors can denied your power for the entire game by one survivor follow you and destroy your power and your left as 4.4 m1 killer with no mobility or anti loop power.
Sadako is literally worse version of Wraith cause everything she is done he did better. - He has huge speed in stealth mod, she is not. - She having directional lullaby, he is not - She cant bodyblock in stealth, he is - Wraith has option to be completly sneaky with right addons (silent bell) when sadako always stack with wooshing sound when manifested - He has insane amout of good, strong and even broken addons when mostly sadako addons are garbage
Spirit is a good example but she has many downside that Wraith doesnt have, her ability on cooldown, she is 4.4, she cant see survivors in her power. So yeah she is only m1 killer who is stronger than Wraith, but it compensate with many downsides that Wraith doesnt have.
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I used to feel this way back when I first started playing. He felt really strong to me as a new player. A good Wraith is still very strong but your average Wraith is fine imo. I play him sometimes too and recommend him for new players as a good killer to start with because he is pretty simple to learn. He's one of the more common killers I've faced and most people play him the same way, so he can be quite predictable.
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Speaking of Wraith and new players, I remember my first time getting face-camped was against a Wraith.
Original Mount Ormond, if memory serves me right.
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I don't feel wraith is OP, he just feels that way because of the way people play him. I would say he is best used for bodyblocking while cloaked. Yes they are notorious of camping the hook cloaked. If played without those features he's fair. There are some add ons that could use a nerf but very few. I feel he's fine. In 2V8 though yeah he's super charged and not fun especially when paired with the Spirit or Nurse.
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Pinhead M2 is only slow, so kinda Clown with extra step. (unless iri addon is used)
Hag is going to destroy soloQ groups more than Wraith can ever do.
Funny to say how Spirit has so many "downsides", but is better than Wraith anyway. It's almost as Wraith has his own limitations.1 -
He's strong in good players hands but definitely not overpowered.
Things like reduced M1 hit CD, faster break/kicking, hemorrhage change just made him stronger.0 -
I can only assume that you have made this post as a troll?. Ignoring the fact that the English grammer in this hurts my brain, you basicly want to removed every part of his power and turn him into an m1 killer that can go stealth but then never have a benefit to that because of the insane debuff from uncloaking?
My assumption is that you have been destroyed by a good wraith player and just want him out of the game because entitled....
I do hope your post was a joke because if it is a serious suggestion then you need to take a break from dbd my dude because it's very clear your burnt out with dbd as of you're complaining about an of killer that is mid tier at best
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If we're in the habit of complaining about grammar, I hope you have no complains to me checking yours? Ignore the quote line above, that's a forums error that copied over from Notepad and I can't seem to fix, sadly ^
"I can only assume that you have made this post as a troll?."
"You have" can be shortened to "you've" for ease of reading, and there's no need to put a full stop following your question mark. A question mark ends a sentence, so there's no need to then re-end it.
"Ignoring the fact that the English grammer in this hurts my brain,…"
Everyone in this thread is speaking English; there's no need to clarify that the grammar specifically is English. Also, grammar*.
"…you basicly want to removed every part of his power and turn him into an m1 killer…"
Firstly, basically*. Secondly, "remove" not "removed" - "you basically want to remove…". Minor point, too, but the M for M1 should be capitalised.
"…that can go stealth…"
The phrasing of "that can go stealth" is clunky - either go for "enter stealth" or "become stealthed", and instead of "can" the conditional "could" works better with the phrasing when using "that": "that could enter stealth".
Moreover, though, as the Wraith is a killer (a character and person, not a thing) the "that" is also not the best fit - you'll want to use "who", so while your "can" could be correct ("who can enter stealth/who can become stealthed") the "could" is still the best fit, IMO."…but then never have a benefit to that because of the insane debuff from uncloaking?"
This is missing a conditional clause, which was present in the last phrase (even when using "can"). "But then would never have a benefit" would work better.
Following this, you've got 2 line spacing, which can work if you're consistent, but in general you'll want to stick to just the one, particularly on these forums. Smaller line spacing can be accessed using shift + enter, so the double space is gramatically incorrect also. You can see what that looks like above.
"My assumption is that you have been destroyed by a good wraith player and just want him out of the game because entitled...."
Now this starts off promising (though again "you have" can be shortened to "you've" for easier reading, especially as these forums aren't generally hugely academic so contractions are allowed and often used, case in point), but you stumble near the end. The "just" is unnecessary to get your point across, though not hugely harmful to the sentence. There are, however, missing words between "because" and "entitled" - perhaps a "you're" wouldn't go amiss? "Because you're entitled" flows much better, but you've got some options here.
Also, an elipsis is only three - like this "…" - anything further is unnecessary and looks like the same issue with the question mark above - you're trying to end a sentence which the elipsis has already ended. While they can serve many purposes, and don't always end a sentence, in this case the general rules of grammar dictate that it ends that sentence specifically.
Finally, Wraith is a proper noun as it refers to a specific person, place, or thing, so therefore must always be capitalised."I do hope your post was a joke because if it is a serious suggestion then you need to take a break from dbd my dude…"
Very nearly correct, but "dbd" should be "DbD" because it's a shortening of "Dead by Daylight", which is capitalised. Also, the "my dude" is a separate clause, so should be separated with a comma; "…break from DbD, my dude,…" works much better.
"…because it's very clear your burnt out with dbd…"
You're using "it's" here, which is inconsistent with the rest of your answer. I'm aware I've corrected you not contracting before, but as here you are I'd advise that you pick one or the other - either go for a fully academic writing style, or use contractions constantly. To do otherwise reads poorly.
Also, it's "you're" and not "your". "You're" is a contraction of "you" and "are" - "because it is very clear you are burnt out…" - while "your" dictates that an object, place, person, or other thing belongs to the individual with whom you're speaking to. "Your burnt out" could work if it was instead "your burn out", as "burn" is then used as a noun and not a verb, however that would require further sentence restructing.
Finally, as before, it's "DbD" and not "dbd"."…as of you're complaining about an of killer that is mid tier at best"
I'm not entirely sure what the "of" is supposed to be in either use - this simply isn't grammatically correct, and I'd suggest rewriting using a different word.
The good news? You've successfully used the correct "you're" here - why could you not do this earlier?
As you've contracted "you've" and "it's" above, contract "that is" to "that's" or uncontract the "it's" and "you're". Consistency is key.
Finally, you'll want to end on a full stop (or other related punctuation mark). For example: ".", "!", "?", "…" are all valid ways of ending a sentence.Overall, I give it a 4/10, needs improvements. I'd advise working on your own grammatical standards before complaining about other people's. As the proverb goes, "Good writing is good editing, and vice-versa".
Post edited by GoodBoyKaru on5 -
bro ran into instant uncloak wraith in the 2v8 and never recover 💀
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LMAO you spent that much time going through a message haha. I'm actually happy because is just goes to show that some people in these forums get triggered over anything.
Bottom line. This post is pointless. The suggestions for the "nerfs" were garbage and the original post was just pain to read with how badly it was written.
But I look forward to book number 2 from the self appointed grammer police 🚓 🚨
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