Hook timer buff and rise of slugging
Ive been noticing far more killers slugging lately, especially after bhvr buffed the hook timers (by 10 seconds I believe).
Wonder if this was intentional. Does bvhr want more slugs? Doesnt seem healthy...
Comments
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I thought the excuse for slugging was because either Boil Over or Sabotage. Devs should have left We're Gonna Live Forever at 150%. 🤡
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Nono, the excuse for slugging were Hook Deadzones.
Or any other lame excuse.
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I’m a jealous Killer.
I punish Survivors who spend more time with each other than with me.
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Killer mains really are desperate to get that extra ten seconds removed.
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The 'reason' will change depending on what works best for the killer main you would be talking to. There is no reason. A player chooses to slug, and they can't just say that, they need to have some scapegoat like BHVR or Survivors did this or that.
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Buffing the hook timer doesn't even make slugging necessary, at all.
Players just choose to slug, that is all that happens.
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People slug for any reason really. Its rarely used for pressure as it is now as much as the forum killer mains like to fall on of why its not a BM.
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Slugging generally only happens when the survivors play badly and set up an advantageous moment to do it. Rarely does a killer just slug and then randomly go looking for someone else. Any form of slugging is overall pretty rare to see in matches since it's so high risk and can backfire very easily.
Some exceptions though. Like certain killers basically have to slug, it's part of their only viable play style. I don't fault them for that. It's like blaming a Hag for setting a web up around a 3 gen and the person on the hook and camping there all game, that's just what Hag does. I don't blame the Hag, even if it is boring.
Then I could also just see a rational point to it. Like there's been tons and tons of anti hook perks that are nearly all meta, so by not hooking in the average match, I'd probably turn off at least half the entire survivor teams perks. That's a pretty strong effect. They've been incentivized not to hook with how overly punishing it is to hook.
As a general concept we want to incentivize the behavior we want to see. DBD has an issue where it punishes you for playing "fair/nice/fun/ect" and rewards you for not doing so.
I generally have no issue with slugging from either perspective though. I think the hate of it people have is generally irrational.
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1.6 seconds doesn't make much of a difference at all if the killer is actually slugging. It only affects aggressive plays.
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It’s almost like it can be more than one reason! And a combination of them at that.
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I actually agree with most of this, mainly due to how much more effective slugging can be instead of hooking. I don't think we should encourage it, but it is starting to become a path of least resistance. However, I do believe it's always a choice, and sometimes it's the right choice. (hello flashlight squad) Survivors making mistakes are inevitable, just as killers make mistakes, as nobody should be expected to play perfectly no matter what "role" , and I beleive both survivor and killer should be able to profit off of those mistakes, but to an extent.
I personally don't agree with it being irrational to want changes to slugging (I mean, depending on the changes of course). As you stated in your post how bypassing the hooking mechanic can ignore almost half entire survivor teams perks, that in itself should not be possible. Distortion was nerfed for this exact reason, as many believed it was unfair that a single survivor perk could counter multiple killer perks. By that same logic, a tactic which can counter more than half of an entire teams perks that doesn't even a require a perk in itself should come with more risk for that kind of reward, in my opinon.
Let's just hope BHVR starts incentivizing hooking, and rewards killers for multiple chases and downs. With all the changes the game has recieved in the past couple years, I don't believe it's that impossible to imagine. Here's hoping!
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"I personally don't agree with it being irrational to want changes to slugging "
Well I never said that. I said the hate for slugging was irrational. I did not saying wanting changes to slugging was irrational. Two different statements. "Changes" is broad, I'd be down for changes depending what they were, even though I don't have an issue with slugging in its current state.
"As you stated in your post how bypassing the hooking mechanic can ignore almost half entire survivor teams perks, that in itself should not be possible. "
I don't really agree with this as a concept. We have many perks that can be ignored in the game by playing in different ways. The only reason so many are ignored by slugging is because of every survivors choice to stack second chance hook perk ontop of second chance hook perk. IE it avoids so many not because slugging inherently ignores more perks than others, but simply because anti hook/second chance perks are the most common survivor perks. What this really demonstrates is that one, tunneling is a problem, and two that there are probably too many second chance perks. This isn't news to anyone though.
"Distortion was nerfed for this exact reason, as many believed it was unfair that a single survivor perk could counter multiple killer perks. By that same logic, a tactic which can counter more than half of an entire teams perks that doesn't even a require a perk in itself should come with more risk for that kind of reward, in my opinon. "
Actually no, apples and oranges. Distortion countering is just throwing on a perk and forget. Slugging is high risk. The cost to slug is not even remotely close to the cost of throwing a perk on. I think you're vastly understating how risky slugging is, it has high cost. Slugging successfully also takes skill, throwing Distortion on does not. These are not comparable in the way you're comparing them.
"Let's just hope BHVR starts incentivizing hooking, and rewards killers for multiple chases and downs. With all the changes the game has recieved in the past couple years, I don't believe it's that impossible to imagine. Here's hoping!"
I do agree with this.
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The reason is because hook perks are increasingly becoming less rewarding. Pop nerfed to current progress then buffed to be somewhere in the middle to back to the 20% current. Pain res getting 20% less regression overall while more and more basekit buffs happen to hooks for survivors overall. And no WGLF should have stayed at 100%. Double the heal speed is already MORE than enough.
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These perks have not been changed in any way, shape, or form for like 6 months.
Anyone claiming this is the cause of increased slugging is simply lying.
It's mainly killers throwing yet another tantrum that literally anything was changed that wasn't a pure killer buff.
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Hmmm. Personally I only slug when I have 2 survivors remaining and the one I drop is on dead hook, so I can get the best possible result. 4k.
That or when theres a Boil Over, No Mither etc team.
I am so tired of people crying about slugging, they cry about it like if happened every match and take no responsability whatsoever. If all 4 of you get slugged and no one does anything is just a skill issue. There are SO MANY OPTIONS to counter it. My god.
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Well, yeah, some of us are (I for example). That change was poorly thought through and not in the least equal to the gentime increase, no matter what the majority of survivor mains seem to think. The math just doesn't support this claim and for many the +10s hook timer was the straw that broke the camels back and made hooks more detrimental to the killer then slugging.
But don't get me wrong, I am not one of the Knockout crew, I tried that build one evening and experienced how much more effective slugging was when compared to straight hooking, especially with all the dangers of picking up involved and how many perks get powered by being hooked, and vied for rolling the +10s hook timer back.
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That change was... not in the least equal to the gentime increase
This is absolutely true.
The gen time increase always applies and there's nothing survivors can do to avoid the extra gen time they added. They can try to offset it with perks, or BNP, but the extra 10 charges is always there.
The extra 10 seconds on hook stages is completely avoided by the killer not camping or waiting near the hook to tunnel. It's completely, entirely within the killers control to never see that extra 10 seconds come into play.
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Good because if they nerfed pain res or pop even more it would be unironically nerfed Overbrine tier. So much work for so little reward meanwhile perks like Lithe or Sprint burst give big rewards for no work done. Then stacked on top of that fact the basekit hook buffs. The original base kit BT was fine but then they extended it and added a 7% haste on top not to mention flashlights just downright being free. A lot of factors one of them for me especially is 4 health states off hook that they shove in your face any chance they get.
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These forums mainly have survivors who have never played killer to a decent extent and basically want killers to become dogs chasing cars. They sensitive so they need to make sure they win even if they make no effort and make sure they can troll the killer but still win.
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You could swap out Killer/Survivor to the opposite role and still say the same thing.
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So you admit that the regression changes have literally no bearing on the current slugging trend.
But you struggle with base kit BT? I didn't think counting to ten was that hard.
Although, counting all the way to ten is, I suppose, hard if someone can't count health states. And you've clearly never played survivor if you think someone has 4 health states off hook. They made endurance not stackable like a year and a half ago?
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To be fair the gen timer buff is commensurate with the extra gen time nerf and IIRC both were initially supposed to come together.
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Wouldn't a gen timer buff and an extra gen time nerf cancel each other?
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You missed the point entirely. Regression perks from getting hooks is getting less valuable therefor it (in a lot of cases) is better to just leave the person on the ground. Also 4 health states off hook, 1 from OTR/basekit bit, another from DS, and then DH. You can be forced to win the equivalent of 2 chases for one survivor or hitting them times.
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Slugging is more efficient than hooking, people are just slowing realizing that
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I've noticed that in my Thompson House thread
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Again, you even admit that none of these regression perks have been touched in like 6 months. That isn't the reason things are changing right now.
The most recent change, in fact, was a buff adding another 2.5% of "current" progress base kit to every kick, including pop. So... Making more of these strongest form of pop base kit.
And don't even try moving the goal post here. You started out complaining about base kit BT, which is trivial for killers to ignore or counter. Suddenly you're changing your stance to literally "but, if the survivor brings 3 perks the killer has to wait a little longer to tunnel and this survivor build only works exactly once per game".
I can't take you seriously, goodbye.
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There is still no causality in this.
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It's PART of the reason not the sole reason. The extra 20 seconds on hook total played another part in the reason people choose to slug over hook. Also once per game is all you really need if you are good at the game and have teammates that dont aimlessly wander around. You clearly do not play at a good enough level to understand that.
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