1500 paired against 10500
How come I (1500h) go up against a survivor with 10500 hours? Not only that… He is the "23rd best surv in the world" according to the statistics and the best Ace in the world apparently. I actually am so blown away by how BHVR's sbmm system works… This is unbelievable. And of course i get pooped on since he's spent his childhood playing the game…
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MMR is beyond broken. I went up against a SWF with 10.9k, 9.2k, 7k, and 5k hours. I absolutely cooked them and then my next match I checked a players profile and to my disbelief they had around 150 hours. The other 3 had 2k, 3k and 500 hours
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I think it's partly fine to have this as long as every game isn't wildly mismatched. The tradeoff for getting matches with closer apparent skill levels is slower matchmaking. Don't get me wrong, sometimes there are definitely severe skill disparities that make matches seem dumb to some people in them. But I'm happy to take some weird matches for faster matchmaking.
I think the bigger issue with the skill-based part of the SBMMR system is that it's only taking into account things like escapes through gates and number of sacrifices per match. It would probably be somewhat more effective if the system also took into account things like number of saves or gens done per match for survivors, and average chase duration for both survivors and killers (in addition to things that are already considered). Having said that, I think that could lead to some unexpected new issues where certain playstyles get paired into certain MMR states in strange ways.
Anyway, just my thoughts :D
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There is a very simple explanation. SBMM doesn't work. You are simply paired with the next person waiting in the queue regardless of their MMR score.
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Yep. this kind of thing happens to me all the time. The devs can tell us all they want that there is a functioning SBMM system, but my eyes aren't lying to me about what I see match after match after match.
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Also they explained that if you get to the top cap you have a range from just reached top to ultra veteran.
This range is like all players who are not new to average… and even that does sometimes not work.
Pretty sad - as this is also not good for new players to get matched with very good ones.
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I think what happens here is that MMR drastically increases from each win and decreases a little from a loss.
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Because the game has a soft capped MMR. You could be way better than someone but for the sake of keeping games going they pair you up with them anyway.
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Lol who on earth told him he was the "23rd best survivor in the world?" So random.
Anyway, I imagine most players who hit 10k hours have probably at least already started drifting away from the game so the pool of players at that level would be quite small. So they simply get thrown in with the rest of us.
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it means that your very close to the best killers in the world on that killer.
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no offense to op, but no, it really doesnt
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I have been matched with comp players from several well known teams despite being a solo only player. There is no functional MMR in this game. Don't overthink it. MMR at this point is just something people use to boost their own ego and to discredit other players who aren't on their "level".
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I'm surprised how many people here say that MMR doesn't work. It really does it's job as intended, but it's paired in the matching algorithm with a factor that also prioritizes matchmaking speed.
I wonder if it would be feasible to make a matchmaking update that lets players have a slider in the settings menu that increases or decreases the weight of MMR vs matchmaking speed in the matchmaking algorithm.
If I had to program this myself, I'd probably assign each player an MMR score and an associated available MMR pairing range (i.e. outside that range, you can't be paired with them), then put them into a matchmaking pool queue with a timer that periodically updates their matchmaking MMR range. The longer the wait, the more their MMR range broadens. Likewise, upon creation of a lobby, the lobby gets an average MMR score and an MMR range which similarly broadens with time, perhaps averaging out the MMR pairing ranges of players already in the lobby. Then, each lobby pings the player queue pool, running through all possible matches and checking whether their MMR range overlaps with the lobby MMR range. If they overlap, join lobby.
I'm sure it's more nuanced than this in order to make additional balancing considerations, but here you can imagine the problem: if the MMR weight is too high, players could wait ages to have their MMR pairing range overlap with a lobby. If the MMR weight is too low, stupid matches will occur. No sugarcoating that, stupid things will happen. But I could see allowing players to make small adjustments to their MMR weight by allowing a slider in the settings menu to adjust the MMR weight in a small range.
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I appreciate your comment. I think I am a highly skilled cenobite main close Field Agent Reaper's MMR. But that's what I think of course…
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I don't think it's that it doesn't work, it's that however they've programed it to work is making the experience worse in alot of cases.
From a survivor main who doesn't understand programming or any of that sort of stuff, it feels different nowadays than it did when it first was introduced.
Back then, I felt like my team mates were on a similar experience level to me. Nowadays, it feels like they take the killers MMR and match two people at the same or slightly higher level, as well as two people at a lower level for easy pickings. If the killer finds the latter players first then it's ggs. If they find a better player first then usually they can carry the game enough to give the team a chance. Expecting people to carry their team mates isn't fair imo.
Whether that is what is happening obviously i don't know, but it's simply what it *feels* like comparing now to back then. And I've seen others feeling the same way, like complaints about team mates I feel is at an all time high because we've all noticed this mis-match happening too frequently.
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I'll agree about that. I've had matches where I wonder what my teammates are even thinking, but I'll also occasionally see someone loop forever and wonder if it's a killer worse than me or a survivor better than me.
I suspect that BHVR basically has currently set matchmaking to create lobbies with MMRs that are all close to each other when lots of people are playing. If there aren't enough people available with an MMR near yours, then they try to decrease wait times by matching you with people of different MMR.
I kind of prefer those disparate MMR matches in favor of matchmaking time, but I know a lot of people get tired of teammates who are basically Samination's Locker Dwight. So it might be good if BHVR were to give people the ability to decide whether MMR or matchmaking time will be more important when finding a lobby for them.
*However, I have to admit that such an option would likely increase matchmaking time for everyone when some people make MMR more important in their lobby preference.
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Cause game time doesnt mean theyre better than you generally. And MMR doesnt even count in game time. Also matchmaking is screwed by queue times and refills.
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This is what happens when you base matchmaking logic on a deluded belief that your game is anything like hockey.
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It isn't that it doesn't work it's lack of players so you que up with whoever. With all the changes made to survivor most are unwilling to adapt or try. The changes made benefits SWF more than soloq and soloq is the most played. The also have made so many aura perks the killer can find you on seconds so hiding is not logical anymore. Also they have let tunneling, camping, and slugging go on for far too long . Simple things are broken and but fixed.
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Because reaching the highest MMR is not very difficult in a game like this, if you were to compare the ranking system to something like CS or Valorant for example.
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How do we know he's the 23rd best survivor and (excuse me laughing while writing this) the best Ace player in the world?
Regarding mmr, yes. It does not take hours of playtime into account. Only escapes and kills. This is obviously a problem for the survivor side, because it often comes down to the mistakes of others that you die in soloq. The best looper ever will die with a team full of selfcaring Claudettes with 2hours that refuse to unhook.
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because you both are in top 5% mmr.
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Due to the low MMR cap (and the rating system potentially not being strict enough, i. e. gaining rating being easier than losing it), "high MMR" covers a range from "yeah I escape sometimes" to "I don't remember the last time I've lost". Beyond separating the very-new and very-bad from the rest, there is little nuance in the bracketing. It fluctuates with some supposed tinkering going on in the background every then and again, but between the low rating cap and the matchmaker prioritizing short queue times over even looking at the ratings much to begin with, there's just no hope for the system to actually match people fairly with any consistency. There's isn't even enough "nuance" to not give someone that has literally won 1000 matches in a row their next hopeless solo random victims after a <1-minute queue time…
Having exceptions for exceptional players would at least be something, giving them more challenging and engaging playing experiences more often and saving the general playerbase from suffering against them all that often. This could be things like having a "high-high MMR" bracket beyond a certain rating threshold that is queued among each other preferentially for some time before the search expands, or just creating separate pools for players with high winrates and winstreaks that they are matched among if a match can be found within a certain timeframe before putting them back into the general queue. Matchmaking could also generally be stricter in the upper realms, spending more time looking for more accurate rating matches the higher the rating is.
Possible reasons why BHVR does not want to have stricter matchmaking: Queue times, meeting cheaters very frequently in the highest brackets, the idea that even experienced and skilled players perhaps enjoy winning easily against mismatched opposition more in this game than having actual competitive challenges, and that the players on the losing end of this proposition at least don't feel as bad about it or are as likely to stop playing over it. These are real problems, although I don't think any of them come close to justifying the status quo where players (especially on killer) can win countless matches in a row, most of them decisively, and still have fast queues feeding them their next foregone conclusion of a "match".
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Oh yeah, sbmm is totally broken. The other day I've been playing high hours SWF: 8.7k, 10k, 9.9k and 5.5k (34k hours combined) and we have been going against a lot of 500-1500hours killers. We had a few games that we left someone on hook because killer was hillbilly, huntress, bubba etc. Everything else was 4k, 2 ties overall aswell.
But on the other hand, what are they supposed to do? They have to find a killer for swf like mine.
We don't have much 10k hours killers, it's a small portion of playerbase.2 -
In cases like this, what should the best survivors in the world be matched against? While matches like this are very unfun (and probably unwinnable) for the killer, with 1500h you are a way better victim, then a 20h Nemesis, who just started their DBD career. A 1500h player is way out of the honneymoon period and knows the gritty parts of DBD and hopefully can deal with being thrown before the wolves for a match or two.
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there was a time when this would happen but a bunch of youtubers cry they eyes of their face and now the mmr let top tier player kick the ######### out of lower mmr players so they can have fun
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Well, those players have to play with someone…
Yesterday we had kinda fun session, where we had full SWF for 2v8. I think lowest was something around 1,5k hours and highest player had 18k hours. Well, of course no killers ware even close to what this would deserve, because it's not realistic with low queue times.0 -
Symmetrical mmr that was designed for chess, surprisingly doesn't work in an asymmetrical 1v4 environment, who could have guessed…
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Based on my personal experience, I think is an accurate assestment saying it is easier to gain MMR than losing it. Normally when you start playing a killer, you get a group of brand new survivors, if you do very well, in 10 or so games with such killer, you end up facing 100P teams of survivors.
After that, is a luck thing kinda. Every single match I get with my main is against SWF teams, most of them very good at every aspect, normally you win some of those because they are just messing around and trying to annoy you more than winning, but yeah, you gotta get very good very fast.
BTW the best Ace in the world is Rocket. Idk if you played against him, if you do, cheers, he is awesome :P
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How come I (1500h) go up against a survivor with 10500 hours?
The answer is simple. If you have a hidden MMR of 2000 and so does your opponent, then you will meet. There are differences. The duration of the game doesn't matter. It only reflects experience.
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Skill Based Matchmaking in DBD has a cap.
It used to be 1700 a while back, might not be the same.. If we compare it to chess ratings and say you have like 1800 (pretty decent level for a non-professional player) You could be matched with someone who is near your rank, or someone who is 2800 (a chess grandmaster level)
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Not entirely true, read my post above.
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I made a big comment about MMR last month, where the game feels like it has flipped a switch, and you are suddenly matched against comp level players.
Referring to a video that was posted on Youtube by a certain Choy. Picture a player who just got out of the "let's say Silver tier", and hit the treshold of the "gold tier" at around 1400 ELO. The matchmaking algorithm will then only match you against other players within this tier, that ranges from 1400 ELO, all the way up to 2100 ELO, or the best players in the game. The longer the matchmaking drags out, the more likely you are to go up against players that are WAY above your skill-level.
These players are often 4-man SWF's with full meta builds, powerful items and add-ons, and will absolutely gen-rush you to hell and back. On the flipside, if you as a soloQ survivor search for a match, you will be matched with other players around your own skill level, but your opponent will be picked from the tier which the highest rated player is in. This often ends in a very one-sided game that ends at 4-5 gens. And I am talking about versing players that probably has between 5k and 15k hours in the game, while you on the other hand only having maybe 1000 hours at best.Personally, I think actual ranks needs to return, or a better matchmaking system that also takes player hours into account.
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That's fair. I don't like MMR brackets for that reason. Instead, I think there should be only a continuous MMR spectrum with a special lower cutoff for beginners. That way people can't cross discrete boundaries into territories where they're strictly the lowest ranking in that bracket.
My understanding is that BHVR already has a special beginner bracket that people can't descend back into, and that's meant to give absolute beginners a chance to learn a little in the game before any chance of being paired with players who have any idea what they're doing.
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How? Not quite right? What are you talking about? Of course that's right. There are other factors that play a role. Honestly, the only reason you wrote this post is because you're frustrated about it, otherwise you wouldn't write things like that last sentence. What do you expect? That you will always play against equally good opponents? That won't be the case. The SBMM will test you and rank you accordingly. Whether you think it will work or not is irrelevant.
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As i said about it has been proven and even stated that MMR has a cap for matchmaking purposes. Lets say the cap is 1700 MMR, like it was proven to be at one point (again, i'm unsure what the cap is today). And lets say that MMR in DBD is equivalent to how chess elo is in terms of the spread (because it probably is, in the vast vast majority of games MMR is just a slight derivative of elo and behaves almost exactly the same way, usually the difference is just in the gains and losses, but the scale is the same).
In chess, a Grandmaster (typically the top 500 or so players in the world) is 2800 elo. And someone with 1700 elo, is not titled, and probably a good, but casual chess player (personally, i have played chess for many many years, and my highest rating is 1680).
So, if you queue up for matchmaking, and your MMR is say, 1200, no problem, all the people you play with will probably be around 1200, maybe some will be 1225, some might be 1250, some might be 1150, but in general you will all be within probably 5-10 wins/losses of mmr gain from each other.
But, lets say your MMR is 2000. You are a pretty good player, not the best in the world, but definitely what we would call "High MMR". Because MMR has a cap of 1700, it dumps you into the same pool as players who are, 1700, and also players who are 2800. This is why when you hit the "high mmr" cap, it feels like you can have one game where your teammates have no idea what they are doing, and then the next game, they are gods. The way MMR and elo works, is effectively based on a mathematical equation that calculates the probability that you will win a game based on everyone's MMR. Then, based on that probability, you gain or lose points based on the outcome of the match and that probability (I.E. if you win a game you have a high probability of losing, then you will gain a ton of points, but if you lose a game you have a high probability of losing, you will only lose a few points).
If you punch these probabilities into a calculator for say, the 1200 mmr player, maybe they are a killer, and they get matched like this:
- 1200 mmr killer
- 1200 mmr survivor
- 1159 mmr survivor
- 1226 mmr survivor
- 1205 mmr survivor
And punch this into an elo probability calculator, taking the average mmr of the survivors of 1198 (rounded up):
The probability that the killer wins the game is about 50.279%. Pretty even fair game.
Now lets take a match where maybe, the killer is 1800, and they get mathed with:
- 2800 survivor
- 2700 survivor
- 2780 survivor
- 2650 survivor
- 1800 killer
The average MMR of that team is 2733 (rounded up). Now punch that into the calculator, and you see the probability of the killer winning the match would be 0.05%.
Because the cap of MMR (for matchmaking purposes) in DBD is so low, so they can match people quickly, this means that the typical "good, but not great" player who is above that cap will have WILDLY different matches from game to game. Where they play against a SWF kill squad as the killer one game, and then the next they feel like they are playing against "babies" or why you play solo queue and some matches feel like the survivors don't know what a generator is, and other matches they lock it in and the killer gets 1 hook.
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Da hell, I'm more concerned about the 10,500 hours played. That's 437 days or almost 1 year and 2-3 months of their life playing DBD. Forget the match making pretty sure that guy needs help.
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