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Why do killers have to "let one go" but giving the killer a pity kill is bad?
In the Survivor rulebook™ it is bad if the killer slugs for the 4k, or doesn't "be nice" and let one go at the end, but for some reason when survivors stomp the killer, they never let the killer get a pity kill, they always HAVE to play as toxic as possible to get all 4 out. Why is that?
Just asking questions.
Comments
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Because Killer is the Power Role and Killers can grant mercy. It wouldn't make sense for Survivors to give themselves up and be the merciful one. Would you even accept a Survivor pity kill?
Also you get all those pity kills at the start of the match, not the end.
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SWF is the power role, that much is certain. Unless you think the power role is the one who can get abused by a coordinated team somehow.
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no one likes "being held hostage" in the game or simply wasting time lying on the ground
in soloq especially Idk why killers do this, just hook and you will most likely find the hatch faster than the survivor will do it, why waste both your own and someone else's precious time trying to find the last survivor4k it's never that serious
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I can’t believe you’ve never seen Survivors give kills, even yesterday I saw a Jake do it for a Houndmaster. I also did it myself recently for a Nurse who continued to try even though she was in a lobby mismatch. Also the one time I had a bug as Wesker that had me stuck all 4 Survivors stayed in the game through EGC to give me the kills and bring me items.
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Its harder for survivors to do. I try and give kills quite often when I play. But, you have to make sure the other survivors are out of the trial to start with. Otherwise they may come and get themselves killed trying to save you. Then I've just cost some random person their win.
I've offered to let many killers hook me in the end then they would carry me to the basement to try and camp out a kill not knowing I was giving them one. So now the killer is just wasting my time dragging me all the way there.
On rare occasions other survivors would see me offer the kill and actually join.
The biggest thing though is often times, when I offer a kill or a hook, the killer will just carry me to the exit gate. It's weird that so many survivors will take a free hatch or escape but many of the killers will not accept it in return.
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You don’t really have to do anything you don’t want, and no one expects you to do anything beyond not play in a scummy way I guess. But I don’t really see survivors policing killer gameplay by confronting killers directly. I see survivor players here mostly calling for BHVR to do something about unfun tactics.
You’re not obligated to let anyone escape and no other player is obligated to give you a ‘free kill’. Hopefully that settles it.
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It isn't entirely true : I've already seen some survivors want to have a last juicy chase against the killer when the 5gens are done but it is rare. When the killer downs him during the EGC, it is always up to him to let the last chased to crawl up, to pick him up to hook him or to drop him on hatch.
But as I said previously, it happens only in 'fun' games that are very rare !0 -
It's because killers play a scoring game whereby they can win up to 4 kills (or 12 hooks, depending on what you value more), while for survivors It's an all-or-nothing elimination game. That's just part of what makes up the asymmetrical nature of the game.
As killer, if I've played a good game, scored plenty of hooks, then a 3K is just as much of a win for me as a 4K. It's no skin off my back to let the last one go.
But playing survivor, I have one singular goal, to walk through that exit gate (or hatch if it has to be). Anything less a total forfeit.
There will be exceptions. If I really pity the killer, and they've scored virtually no hooks, and I'm feeling generous, and I don't need to escape for a challenge, then I might just offer up a hook knowing there's a risk I don't get saved. But it's a once in a blue moon event, unlike letting one go as killer which happens in maybe 50% of instances where it's an option for me.
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Slugging for the 4k and not letting the last live are different. One wastes a bunch of time, the other is just playing the game normally.
It's a non-issue if you let it go to hatch and kill the last one anyway, but if you're slugging for the 4k literally every game then you probably need to find something better to do with your time. It's genuinely more efficient bloodpoints wise just to take the 3k + hatch instead of bleeding someone out for 4 minutes.
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I've offered a pity kill several times. Usually if I feel the killer played fairly. Some memorable ones:
I gave a Myers his Mori at the end of the game since he brought the offering. We both had an altruistic moment where he dropped me at the gate, but I shook no and crawled back in to let him have the kill.
I was obsession for a spirit game and she ran rancor. She had a bit of a rough game and I offered to let her get perk value but she said no instead and let me go.
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lol instead of creating another us vs them because your extremely biased towards killer, just take a break.
I have let killers kill me and I remember when one killer was trying to do an adept and he asked if we could help him and we did. It was a bubba so we let him kill us.
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I've only met one person who gave pity kills and that is a close friend. Other than that unless I forgot them I have never seen another survivor give a pity kill.
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I think, psychologically, because the survivors "die" if they lose, it's easier for the killer player to let someone go than for the survivor player to sacrifice themselves. But also I think @Seraphor is right and, if the survivor players are looking at it from a POV where they completely lose if they die, whereas the killer is looking at it from a POV where they still really won if they let someone go, that also makes it feel different.
Weirdly, I am also much more willing to accept it if a killer lets me go vs if a survivor waves me over for a pity kill. I don't know why, but the first thing feels generous and the second thing feels insulting.
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Killers are usually too proud to accept pity kills so survivors generally don't bother to offer.
I stopped trying years ago.
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More often than not I have seen killers let someone live because their team mates were doo doo. Dc'ing, killing themselves on hook etc. So in that regard it's like saying "I am sorry you got lumbered with such crappy team mates".
I always appreciate that because solo queue is rough.
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Slugging for 4k is generally pretty abusive since it creates a nearly hopeless situation for the last survivor standing and forces the third survivor to just wait on the ground while some drawn-out game of hide-and-seek takes place. Hatch was literally implemented to prevent that long boring ending and is meant to give the last survivor a reason to keep playing. Slugging for 4k is like saying to the last two survivors "You don't deserve to have fun." I'd say it shouldn't be done at all, even for adepts, unless the squad was actively harassing the killer. If a bully squad is involved, they can get the same treatment they give. Otherwise, it's a very toxic move.
Giving an escape to the last survivor shouldn't be expected, but should probably be appreciated if it happens. I often give hatch or gate, but there should be some feeling that the last sacrifice can still happen. So I'd say this is a matter of just deciding what you feel like at endgame.
I think it's very weird to give the killer a free kill though. As killer, I've only ever accepted them if I'm farming and can't get the survivors to do gens. In my mind, the difference is due to the nature of the game. As killer, I'm trying to get sacrifices, but I'm essentially invincible. The only thing the survivors can do to me is escape. In that scenario, I still got to play the game, probably got multiple hooks, and on very rare occasions, the survivors still give me a 0k. No big deal; it's not like I got sacrificed. But for a survivor, giving them hatch or carrying them to a gate can really make the match more rewarding since the options are get sacrificed or escape. The outcome is kind of binary for them. So personally, that perception of roles and outcomes is what gives me that perspective. I'm sure others are different.
I also wouldn't say there's a 'survivor rulebook.' There are just some things that are seriously unbalanced and make the game worse for people, and the killer is usually more able to do things that fit that description than survivors. I mean, if I feel like tunneling someone out, they're practically guaranteed to not escape. That can easily make someone wonder why they even played the match.
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As someone who plays a lot of survivor, I appreciate the question. I can only speak for myself, but I also feel sorry for a killer when I can tell they are inexperienced at the game or maybe are trying a new killer. And there have certainly been times when I was sorely tempted to give a killer a pity kill in the endgame. But there are two reasons why I don't do it. For one, I play soloq and my teammates wouldn't understand what I was doing, potentially killing themselves trying to save me and then sending me salty messages in post game about "throwing a winning game" or whatnot.
The other reason is a bit more complicated. As someone who is at a certain MMR, I'm used to going against strong killers with strong builds running strong add ons, so I've had to adapt the way I play to allow for very few mistakes. Unless I want to have the most miserable games in the world. That's why, when I come across a killer who plays less hardcore, I find myself playing the way I've become hard wired to play. I'm willing to bet that, on occasion, some killers find themselves also falling into this pattern.
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That's why I never let a survivor go!
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I haven't had a match in over 3 months AT LEAST (probably more like 5/6) where a killer has shown me mercy. Maybe its MMR, maybe its just the players I run into. But this is almost a myth to me at this point.
I've never given a killer a mercy kill in my 3k+ hours of playing survivor. Even when they got completely stomped.
Were playing a kill vs survive game, we all know what we signed up to when we que'd up a match as either role.
However, when I'm killer and its a complete stomp - typically I will give the final survivor hatch cause I do feel bad sometimes. Especially on my Hit n Run Wraith. Probably the killer I am most merciful on since I play him the most.
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I haven't been given hatch once since the Finisher Mori update. I have given 3 or so pity kills in that time though, though in my experience most don't want it. So I'm not sure what you mean.
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Killer the power role is quite the statement I feel. When played at the highest level the survivor side restrictions book has more pages than any dictionary
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This is all purely theoretical. Killer has never been the power role, even though it was intended to be and should be. Those are crazy mental gymnastics to justify "pity escape good/pity kill bad." Yes, we'd take any kills we can get. What's that last comment even supposed to mean? That killers are just guaranteed kills from the start of the match?
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No, they're basically the same, because you're getting 4 kills. The bunch of time wouldn't be wasted if hatch didn't exist as a free insta-escape for whichever survivor happened to be the last alive. I think the hatch being in the game so long, and people accepting it as normal, has warped your minds. If you would just imagine a game without hatch, suddenly the killer trying to get 4 kills is just normal, and he's doing what he has to do to get it. But that's exactly what's happening now, and y'all won't accept it because you're letting hatch skew what the end of a match ought to be. It's such a an uninteresting and bothersome mechanic. And it may be less BP to have someone bleed out, but it's more BP to get the 4th sacrifice. You see the logic flaw?
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First time I hear: "It's bad to give the killer a pity kill".
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It's probably less BP/hr if you consider what you're getting for the time spent. If you're bleeding out the last person for the 4k, then you're spending over 4 minutes at least to get like 4000 extra BP at most, usually less considering a lot of killers max their Deviousness before a match is over. Not to mention the lost bloodpoints from a bleedout.
At the end of the day it's still pretty likely to go to hatch either way. There's zero point in slugging unless you specifically know where the last Survivor is (or if you have an adept or something). That is, unless it's an ego thing where you can't call a 3k + Hatch a win since you didn't "technically" get the 4th survivor, even though you categorically won anyway.
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Not all SWF's are seal team 6 with a trail of nuclear waste behind them, as much as you want them to be.
No one expects the killer to let one person go but it is a nice gesture and its more likely considering the killer doesnt lose out on many points from it, (especially some killers who can get really high deviousness) they only get about 1k in sacrifice. In addition, they can still get an iri emblem in devout since its based on how many hooks they get, not how many kills.
Survivors how ever give up much more for giving a kill, thus making it less likely. Survival points are very scarce outside of escaping, and for emblems they can only go as high as silver in Unbroken.
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Those are definitely different things. Getting a 4k can happen regardless of whether you slug to do it. It's just that with hatch, the last survivor has a fair chance to escape. If the killer gets the last survivor during hatch race, the last survivor at least had a reason to play the endgame. But if the killer slugs for 4k, the game might as well be over as soon as the third survivor goes down.
The difference is whether the killer wants to say to the last survivor "You don't get to have a reason to keep playing now." Hatch makes the game remain interesting even when we're chasing the last survivor. And it's not like the game is worse if the last survivor gets out; the killer has still nominally 'won' the match. I don't think I did a better job because I made the last survivor get a worse outcome in a hopeless situation.
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I don't think playing for the best outcome is toxic either way. I don't blame any killer for slugging for the 4k. I don't like it and I mostly don't do it myself but I do aknowledge that it's natural to want to get all 4 survivors, if you can and the hatch is just not a very good mechanic in that regard. It needs some changes. The mori could also be changed to only be availabe when there are 2 survivors left alive and one of them is not in the dying state. I'm not sure how much it would do but it certainly wouldn't do any harm.
With that said, I do sometimes see survivors that give the killer a free kill at the end. A while ago, I had a particularly rough match as Freddy on Badham. I didn't play my first chase too well and lost 4 gens before I finally got a hook. I had 3 hooks when the gates were powered. Because I never go to any exit gates once the end game collapse begins a Jill came to find me and gestured for me to hook her. There are very friendly survivors out there.
The reason it probably happens more often with killers is that a 3k to many is a win either way. As a survivor you often don't feel like you win, if you don't escape yourself. Combine that with the roughly 40% escape rate and it's not that surprising that it's so rare.
The way I see it, we shouldn't expect the killer to give hatch or any survivor to give the killer a free kill. We can just be happy when it happens. It's a sign of good will and sportsmanship but it's not something that needs to happen every game.
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I absolutely hate the hatch mechanic from both perspectives, but until the devs find a way to fix the issues it prevents (if ever) it is unfortunately still necessary.
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Double standards in dbd.
I have played in swfs were some members of my team have felt bad for killers an let them have a few hooks at the end tbh i prefer to just leave asap so they don't feel as bad.0 -
at the end of the day the "rulebooks" are all stupid anyway if people come at you for being "toxic" just simply say ggs and ignore them. The only people that actually follow stupid stuff like that are all either bad at the game or just sore losers
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Why are people still using "rulebooks" as talking points. If you want to kill the last survivor instead of giving them hatch and they whine about it in EGC then who the hell cares? Close the chat and move on to the next game.
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You're merely incorrect. Survivors do this all the time. You just haven't had the pleasure yet. And if you're actively trying to rank up and always get as high MMR as you can, then you are running against survivors who have the same mindset.
Balance. Pure and natural balance.
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"Power role" is a design choice, not a statement of balance. Killer can force survivors out of the game. Survivors cannot do this to killer.
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Because a mercy escape from the killer changes the outcome from their side from a win to a win (slightly less).
Giving the killer a mercy kill would change the outcome for that survivor from a win to a loss.
Also it's like 7K BP, isn't it?
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You know it's kinda crazy that killer players still use the survivor rulebook gag after all these years. Living rent free in your heads.
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It is a net loss of 7k BP for the survivor.
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- Killer having a 4k or 3k doesnt really make any difference. A survivor surviving or not makes a great difference.
- Its not toxic to escape with 4 people, but it is sweaty to slug for the 4k. Nothing to discuss here unless you have no morals.
- Youre not just asking questions, you try to to make up another "us vs them" with bias.
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So you are biased then, because the killer going for the 4 kills is toxic, but the survivors going for the 4 escapes is not. That is pure bias, plain and simple.
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That's not what that person said.
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What does this mean then?
Its not toxic to escape with 4 people, but it is sweaty to slug for the 4k. Nothing to discuss here unless you have no morals.0 -
Slugging for 4k is different than getting a 4k for real.
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I'm just going to address the slugging for the 4k part.
To nobody's surprise, being slugged isn't fun. The last survivor isn't just going to give themselves up as a free kill. So while the killer and the fourth survivor play hide and seek, the person slugged is just sitting there on the ground bored out of their mind. As killer, you have a much higher chance of finding hatch than the survivor does. The survivor has to find hatch while avoiding the killer.
The only reason to slug for the 4k is to guarantee that you get your 4k.
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There is no survivor rulebook and every 100 losses I might get one killer that lets the last survivor go. The same is probably true for pity kills, however every time I'm in a match when the killer gets absolutely destroyed and someone decides to give them a "pity" kill they don't want it.
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